What do you think of Axl Rose as a songwriter?

[SoulMonster]

Rovim is just being a total pendant for pointing out the obvious error in something that Diesel didn't at all intend to claim, yet still did. Why can't Rovim just focus on whatever it was Diesel intended to say rather than the actual statements he expressed?

[pbj_jam]

Axl Rose is a genius period! In that he's unique and he can wrestle with the best of them. (Yes his small discography helps)

Hearing all the guns guys average solo efforts surprised me, I expected more of a slash and izzy but no. Then came CD and it confirmed that Axl truly is one of the greats imo.

[Chuzeville]

Wasted, let me share my own songwriting experience with you. When I write a song, I usually start with a bit of lyrics, then a chord progression, and then I start singing, trying to figure out a tune that matches the chords. But sometimes I have to change a chord to accomodate the tune, or introduce variations.

But then I'm sure, some songwriters start with a tune and then work out the chords.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Chuzeville

[wasted]

I definitely think Axl pushes his music harder and in a different direction. Something like TWAT is closer to something I think is mind blowing than say Slither or Shiffle it All. But it really depends what you like or lean towards. Scraped is very valuable in the landscape.

[EvanG]

I think we will never know who wrote exactly what for UYI. In the early 90s Duff said that he wrote a lot more for UYI than he got credit for, and that everyone's ego had become so big that they were fighting over whose name should be under it, so he said they should leave his name out. But maybe that was his ego talking? I'm sure he didn't contribute as much as Izzy, Slash and Axl for those two records, but probably more than only those few songs he actually got credit for. (civil war, so fine, get in the ring, dust n bones and bad apples)

[Rovim]

Something like TWAT is closer to something I think is mind blowing than say Slither or Shiffle it All.

It's pretty fuckin' epic. I only hope we'll get to hear more songs in that caliber.

I believe that Axl wrote and recorded many AAA songs, like many people who were in the band or worked with the band have said.

Slither has the great riff, Shuffle It All is great in it's casual way. I'd call it timeless, but I don't listen to it as often as There Was A Time.

I wonder if songs with the titles we got are as good or even close to being as good as Catcher, Twat, Better, and Street Of Dreams.

Is The General, Berlin, Soulmonster, Seven, Atlas Shrugged and the rest of CD ll is comparable in quality? I know nothing about the songs except the titles and that can change as well Axl said, but if it's a double, I'd imagine it's likely, and I also consider what others have said about the unreleased shit. Like Classic Rock back in 1999 or Zutaut, or Robin about his favorite guitar moments not even included on Chinese 1, Josh Freese, Brain, Beltrami.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Rovim

[Apollo]

Axl Rose is a genius period! In that he's unique and he can wrestle with the best of them. (Yes his small discography helps)

Hearing all the guns guys average solo efforts surprised me, I expected more of a slash and izzy but no. Then came CD and it confirmed that Axl truly is one of the greats imo.

Lol. You do realize that Duff and Slash have been more successful than Axl has since they left GnR, right?

[Apollo]

******

Ok. Let's break it down. Tell me how this song would be credited.

I heard a phrase " can you feel me?"

I thought the sentence "can you FEEL me watching you" sounded cool. And as I hummed it thought it would sound cool in a song.

My friend is a musician who has his own studio. So I hummed him that line and a couple others. As a rough melody.

My friend then wrote music to two lines I sang to him. He wrote all the music for the entire song. All instruments. He played everything. I wasn't around and didn't help. I gave him two lines - he came back a week later with all the music.

I took the music and wrote lyrics that fit into how he arranged the song.

I didn't like how he ended it. He had the outro being this deep chug chug chug thing. I had him add a second guitar solo over the ending.

So he went and changed that.

HOW does that song get credited? I came up with the basic melody. And wrote the lyrics. But the melody was two lines. And the lyrics took me an hour. He out in 20 hours of work creating the actual song.

In my mind this is his song that I just helped on.

How would it be credited?

[TeeJay410]

He probably more than any other major rock star rode the line between brilliant and stupid. When he fell on the correct side (scom, locomotive, better, et al) he could be really trascendent. On the other side however (anything goes, shotgun blues, scraped) it could be a cringe inducing experience. I'm not prepared to say which side he fell on more, but I'm inclined to say the brilliant one.

At the end of the day, it was his voice and talent at picking melodies that really drove everything home. Even if the lyrics sucked (honestly, looking back was Civil War really all that profound?) he still sang them in such a way that gave them immediacy and power.

[maynard]

Axl was part of a great writing team in the AFD/Lies era, he was an important part of said group. I'm pretty sure any other singer wouldn't have done such a good job with those songs and riffs.

During the UYI, Axl showed the world he was more than a hard rock singer, he could create great rock ballads and could play the piano. He came up with some really good epic songs but his pretentiousness started to get the best of him. 'My World' is an example of how bad Axl sounds when he tries something beyond his abilities.

Chinese Democracy is basically a joke record. It's 'My World' x14 with very very very few moments of brilliance spread around 3 or 4 songs. The pretentious vibe all over the record makes me laugh every time. Every stupid lyric, every unnecessary synth or guitar fill is hilariously bad. It's Axl being extremely funny. It's like asking Julio Iglesias to come up with a heavy metal record. He's completely out of his league here. Copying and pasting the tracks from his hired musicians only damages the record, giving the entire thing an "Axl Rose, the dictator" vibe from start to finish.

In short, Axl used to be a good composer when surrounded by another great musicians. In his solo record, it's clear he's far from being one of the greatest. I wouldn't put him on my top 10.

[Silent Jay]

He probably more than any other major rock star rode the line between brilliant and stupid. When he fell on the correct side (scom, locomotive, better, et al) he could be really trascendent. On the other side however (anything goes, shotgun blues, scraped) it could be a cringe inducing experience. I'm not prepared to say which side he fell on more, but I'm inclined to say the brilliant one.

At the end of the day, it was his voice and talent at picking melodies that really drove everything home. Even if the lyrics sucked (honestly, looking back was Civil War really all that profound?) he still sang them in such a way that gave them immediacy and power.

Axl said in the past years that he wished CW would have more profound, better lyrics.

[Chuzeville]

Axl Rose is a genius period! In that he's unique and he can wrestle with the best of them. (Yes his small discography helps)

Hearing all the guns guys average solo efforts surprised me, I expected more of a slash and izzy but no. Then came CD and it confirmed that Axl truly is one of the greats imo.

Lol. You do realize that Duff and Slash have been more successful than Axl has since they left GnR, right?

******

Ok. Let's break it down. Tell me how this song would be credited.

I heard a phrase " can you feel me?"

I thought the sentence "can you FEEL me watching you" sounded cool. And as I hummed it thought it would sound cool in a song.

My friend is a musician who has his own studio. So I hummed him that line and a couple others. As a rough melody.

My friend then wrote music to two lines I sang to him. He wrote all the music for the entire song. All instruments. He played everything. I wasn't around and didn't help. I gave him two lines - he came back a week later with all the music.

I took the music and wrote lyrics that fit into how he arranged the song.

I didn't like how he ended it. He had the outro being this deep chug chug chug thing. I had him add a second guitar solo over the ending.

So he went and changed that.

HOW does that song get credited? I came up with the basic melody. And wrote the lyrics. But the melody was two lines. And the lyrics took me an hour. He out in 20 hours of work creating the actual song.

In my mind this is his song that I just helped on.

How would it be credited?

(You/Your Friend) or (Your Friend/You)

No doubt about it.

[DieselDaisy]

Songwriting accreditation, traditionally the main revenue generator, is not an exact science and is traditionally a source of much inner band contention, classic case in point 'House of the Rising Sun' by The Animals and Queen's 'Seven Seas of Rye', both songs effectively claimed by one member - Alan Price and Freddie Mercury - against the protests of the remaining band members. Another good example is various songs released by the Rolling Stones in the early-mid 1970s, credited to Jagger/Richards, against the protests of Mick Taylor, e.g. 'Sway', 'Winter', 'Time Waits for No One', et al. Bill Wyman also claims that he was shafted on numerous occasions by that same duo; he claims to have conceived the 'Jumpin' Jack Flash' main riff for instance and believes 'Paint it Black' to be a band effort.

[wasted]

Something like TWAT is closer to something I think is mind blowing than say Slither or Shiffle it All.

It's pretty fuckin' epic. I only hope we'll get to hear more songs in that caliber.

I believe that Axl wrote and recorded many AAA songs, like many people who were in the band or worked with the band have said.

Slither has the great riff, Shuffle It All is great in it's casual way. I'd call it timeless, but I don't listen to it as often as There Was A Time.

I wonder if songs with the titles we got are as good or even close to being as good as Catcher, Twat, Better, and Street Of Dreams.

Is The General, Berlin, Soulmonster, Seven, Atlas Shrugged and the rest of CD ll is comparable in quality? I know nothing about the songs except the titles and that can change as well Axl said, but if it's a double, I'd imagine it's likely, and I also consider what others have said about the unreleased shit. Like Classic Rock back in 1999 or Zutaut, or Robin about his favorite guitar moments not even included on Chinese 1, Josh Freese, Brain, Beltrami.

Zutaut saw Atlas as the first single.

Are Silkworms or Oh My God worser than CD tracks?

Axl seemed to think it's more of the same.

Who knows?

[Rovim]

Zutaut saw Atlas as the first single.

Are Silkworms or Oh My God worser than CD tracks?

Axl seemed to think it's more of the same.

Who knows?

No one. Not unless of course you're an insider. But someone asked Axl what his favorite songs were from Chinese before it was released and Axl said Better, There Was A Time, and Streets Of Dreams if I'm not mistaken. He also seemed very excited about Catcher.

I only bring this up cause Josh Freese said there was a list to determine the quality of the tunes, so I imagine if Better, Catcher, There Was A Time, and Street Of Dreams were on the AAA column, other songs could have been there, like they wanted Atlas Shrugged on Chinese 1 but there was no room on the disk for example, and there are songs that go well together as a group on an album, regardless of their quality.

Hopefully they'll be at least a few songs on that caliber on CD ll, if it's ever released.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Atlas Wanked. What a load of shite. The song doesn't exist. ''Brian May playing on The General''. You are all speaking out of your arse.

Edited November 28, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

Not really. Atlas is named checked by Axl, May, Ron, Zutaut. It will be on the next GNR i reckon.

There is a theory that CD was a stand alone album but when Fortus joined they were working on another album which wasn't thematically anything to do with CD. That might or might not be CD II.

[DieselDaisy]

Not really. Atlas is named checked by Axl, May, Ron, Zutaut. It will be on the next GNR i reckon.

There is a theory that CD was a stand alone album but when Fortus joined they were working on another album which wasn't thematically anything to do with CD. That might or might not be CD II.

To all intents and purposes though none of this stuff exists as he never releases it. It is hypothesis.

[wasted]

Of course. The cycle of abuse continues. Like the catholic church.

[EvanG]

******

Ok. Let's break it down. Tell me how this song would be credited.

I heard a phrase " can you feel me?"

I thought the sentence "can you FEEL me watching you" sounded cool. And as I hummed it thought it would sound cool in a song.

My friend is a musician who has his own studio. So I hummed him that line and a couple others. As a rough melody.

My friend then wrote music to two lines I sang to him. He wrote all the music for the entire song. All instruments. He played everything. I wasn't around and didn't help. I gave him two lines - he came back a week later with all the music.

I took the music and wrote lyrics that fit into how he arranged the song.

I didn't like how he ended it. He had the outro being this deep chug chug chug thing. I had him add a second guitar solo over the ending.

So he went and changed that.

HOW does that song get credited? I came up with the basic melody. And wrote the lyrics. But the melody was two lines. And the lyrics took me an hour. He out in 20 hours of work creating the actual song.

In my mind this is his song that I just helped on.

How would it be credited?

You should both get credit. It's almost impossible when you write a song with someone else that it will be 50/50. Even if it is 90/10 the other person should get a credit.

[niceguy]

******

Ok. Let's break it down. Tell me how this song would be credited.

I heard a phrase " can you feel me?"

I thought the sentence "can you FEEL me watching you" sounded cool. And as I hummed it thought it would sound cool in a song.

My friend is a musician who has his own studio. So I hummed him that line and a couple others. As a rough melody.

My friend then wrote music to two lines I sang to him. He wrote all the music for the entire song. All instruments. He played everything. I wasn't around and didn't help. I gave him two lines - he came back a week later with all the music.

I took the music and wrote lyrics that fit into how he arranged the song.

I didn't like how he ended it. He had the outro being this deep chug chug chug thing. I had him add a second guitar solo over the ending.

So he went and changed that.

HOW does that song get credited? I came up with the basic melody. And wrote the lyrics. But the melody was two lines. And the lyrics took me an hour. He out in 20 hours of work creating the actual song.

In my mind this is his song that I just helped on.

How would it be credited?

Apollo, I'm a semi-pro musician (because it sure as hell won't pay my rent!).

Your situation is a gray area. It would take a court of law and skilled lawyers to decide just how much your contribution matters, in terms of raw percentage.

Unless the song goes on to make millions of dollars, I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the fact that you contributed to a creative work.

[Apollo]

******

Ok. Let's break it down. Tell me how this song would be credited.

I heard a phrase " can you feel me?"

I thought the sentence "can you FEEL me watching you" sounded cool. And as I hummed it thought it would sound cool in a song.

My friend is a musician who has his own studio. So I hummed him that line and a couple others. As a rough melody.

My friend then wrote music to two lines I sang to him. He wrote all the music for the entire song. All instruments. He played everything. I wasn't around and didn't help. I gave him two lines - he came back a week later with all the music.

I took the music and wrote lyrics that fit into how he arranged the song.

I didn't like how he ended it. He had the outro being this deep chug chug chug thing. I had him add a second guitar solo over the ending.

So he went and changed that.

HOW does that song get credited? I came up with the basic melody. And wrote the lyrics. But the melody was two lines. And the lyrics took me an hour. He out in 20 hours of work creating the actual song.

In my mind this is his song that I just helped on.

How would it be credited?

Apollo, I'm a semi-pro musician (because it sure as hell won't pay my rent!).

Your situation is a gray area. It would take a court of law and skilled lawyers to decide just how much your contribution matters, in terms of raw percentage.

Unless the song goes on to make millions of dollars, I wouldn't worry about it. Just enjoy the fact that you contributed to a creative work.

Oh I was just using it as an example.

He is in a band and they will never make it out of our hometown. Tho he can play anything that Satriani or Vai or EVH can play.

People were debating publishing and royalties and throwing out fake scenarios. So I wanted to use an actual specific example to get an idea of what actually happens.

My lyrics aren't anything earth shattering. And the music probably isn't that great. But it's got a killer guitar solo.

[wasted]

It depends on the deal band members make with each other?

Thats why Guns changed it, because on AFD Steven and Duff got same even if they didnt write it?

Theres definitely a difference between a song and the finished product music on a cd. Cover versions can be pretty different from the song. Like Dread Zeppelin covers of Zepp its reggae with Elvis vocals sometimes extra jamming.

Like those blues covers metal bands do. Aint superstitious by megadeth?

So I think if Izzy brings in a riff with lyrics, thats basically the song. The band just cover it unless they add significant changes. Playing the riff heavier or in a different style doesnt count. Adding keyboards or doing vocal over dubs doesnt count.

Edited November 29, 2015 by wasted

[WhazUp]

Good songwriter, but even better when paired with musicians and writers that help bring his work to even greater heights a la Appetite through the Illusions. When he calls most of the shows, such as post 1996, still good but just not as legendary

[wasted]

A great song writer doesnt always produce a perfect record thats a huge hit. Look at Dylan. Shot of Love has great songs but it's far from his most successful album. But songwriting wise its strong, its just not quite finished perfectly or the most popular notions.

Edited November 29, 2015 by wasted