DieselDaisy Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes?It is difficult as (sunni) Islam does not possess some 'top-down' hierarchical organisational structure of clergy like Catholicism. It is basically congregational in nature, revolving around, largely independent mosques and locally appointed imans; there is a legalistic tradition but even here, there are various rival schools of scholastic thought and Islamic scholars do not act as a sort of clergy. This all means that it is very difficult to enforce any degree of ideological orthodoxy. What little can be done, has to be centripetal and atomised in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I can't find the words right now to be solems and respectful and say how I really feel. Prayers for their families and communities, of course.Hate to be trivial, but that reunion announcement isn't coming today, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes? It is difficult as (sunni) Islam does not possess some 'top-down' hierarchical organisational structure of clergy like Catholicism. It is basically congregational in nature, revolving around, largely independent mosques and locally appointed imans; there is a legalistic tradition but even here, there are various rival schools of scholastic thought and Islamic scholars do not act as a sort of clergy. This all means that it is very difficult to enforce any degree of ideological orthodoxy. What little can be done, has to be centripetal and atomised in nature. What do you mean? This has nothing to do with religion at all. I know this because Facebook says so. Edited November 14, 2015 by Dazey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Glow Inc. Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes?Why do the good Christians allow shootings in American Schools and Universities?Probably because most of the shootings don't involve someone screaming "IN THE NAME OF JESUS" before going on a killing spree ?Also probably because there isn't a giant terrorist group recruting all over the world in order to create a "Christian state" where the Bible would be applied litterally and replace the law ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1989 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes? Why do the good Christians allow shootings in American Schools and Universities?Idiot. Good Christians don't allow the KKK to overrun their towns - much better comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Just woken up to this mornings reports so playing catch up right now. Hope all our members affected were able to contact loved ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Lio's French, isn't she? Is she a Parisian? Anyone heard from her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 No, Lios from Belgium, bless her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlsend Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) It makes you take stock. How many of us have gone out for a meal, gone to a football match and been to a gig? You just can't comprehend the enormity of what has happened in Paris. I have travelled to Bercy from England many times to see GnR, you don't expect to die at a gig.God bless all who are affected by the actions of these murderers.Thoughts and prayers are with you. Edited November 14, 2015 by axlsend 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Look at the hate we're breeding, look at the fear we're feeding, look at the lives we're leading, the way we've always done before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Axlsend! How nice to see you! Been a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes?I dont suppose they have a lot of choice, bunch of nutters with machine guns and what have you, a lot of people are executed in these takeovers, i suppose those are the ones who put up a fight or break the rules. Or perhaps its just plain old 'i dont wanna die'.Who would you whistleblow to? Unless you mean about the terrorist cells over here? I dont suppose they go around advertising their attacks.There was a group called Al Mouhajiroun over here, they (i say they, it always just seemed to be the same two lads) used to hang out near the top of town handing out leaflets and grabbing any vaguely muslim looking lad and give him a load of verbal about Islam and jihad and all that. One of em used to be a couple of years above me, all the lads used to give him beats for being a fatty. I suppose this was his revenge on the world. They even had this nursery rhyme type thing made up comparing him to a grizzly bear, i'll spare you the lyrics. He tried tugging my sleeve once, i just told him to fuck off I know the head of the local mosque around here and i asked him about it and them and their group etc, he said they're a bunch of lunatics, they used to come and try and hand out flyers to people leaving friday prayer, they used to just tell em to bugger off. Coppers even came to him about them and he just said look, im not a policeman, they're nothing to do with me, what would you have me do and why should i claim responsibility for a group when i want em gone as much as you do. In saying that I'll do something about them i am essentially taking up responsibility for them when they are nothing to do with me or anything i have any control over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlsend Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Axlsend! How nice to see you! Been a while! Gracii Girl lovely to 'see' you too. Are you well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Axlsend! How nice to see you! Been a while! Gracii Girl lovely to 'see' you too. Are you well?No offence but is your screename supposed to sound as unfortunate as it does? Axls end Which end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlsend Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Axlsend! How nice to see you! Been a while! Gracii Girl lovely to 'see' you too. Are you well?No offence but is your screename supposed to sound as unfortunate as it does? Axls end Which end? It's a long story as to how that name came up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Technically Islamic law can be interpreted in numerous ways without fear of heresy since there is next to no centralisation in the religion. The various scholastic schools may challenge but there is no method of excommunication - Islam does not operate like a monolith. How the religion operates is very, bottom-up and community based. The quality of Islam being taught is only as good as the individual mosque teaching it; you could have two mosques side by side, both teaching different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) Technically Islamic law can be interpreted in numerous ways without fear of heresy since there is next to no centralisation in the religion. The various scholastic schools may challenge but there is no method of excommunication - Islam does not operate like a monolith. How the religion operates is very, bottom-up and community based. The quality of Islam being taught is only as good as the individual mosque teaching it; you could have two mosques side by side, both teaching different things. My experience of em has just been like....fire and brimstone stuff, in terms of the actual preaching, be a good boy or else you'll get a pitchfork up the arse come judgement day. They don't really go into the socio-political or anything. They'll bring up a current affair to the extent of muslim brothers are dying in such and such country and give generously but thats about it, though I'm not exactly the mosque Michelin guide. It's mostly all stories about Moses and all the various prophets and that...and then somehow relaying the moral of the story to how one should behave in contemporary society. Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Face facts, all you were interested in was the 72 virgins. Did you ever turn up to your mosque pissed, eating a bacon sandwich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ender04 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 It seems that what we see with terrorism is the globalization of war. We can´t keep it confined within certain borders any more. People and politics, media and warfare all transport quickly and easily. Terrorism is not a new phenomenon, but it feels like the new way of guerilla war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Face facts, all you were interested in was the 72 virgins. Did you ever turn up to your mosque pissed, eating a bacon sandwich?Funnily enough i didn't do a lot of drinking aged 8/9/10 Y'know, i never even knew about that 72 virgins stuff until post 9/11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Glow Inc. Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.The few french people i know have a lot of issues with a lot of Algerians and Arabs over there, or rather they didn't personally have one but explained that there was a sort of culture clash going on there between the two. I mean this is outside of all like, religious divisions and such, it was just a pre-existing thing regarding their general behaviour and creating a sort of a country within a country...is that true in your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gracii Guns Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Axlsend! How nice to see you! Been a while! Gracii Girl lovely to 'see' you too. Are you well?Better than ever, dear! Yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Manets is still in Paris btw?Hope, he is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Glow Inc. Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.The few french people i know have a lot of issues with a lot of Algerians and Arabs over there, or rather they didn't personally have one but explained that there was a sort of culture clash going on there between the two. I mean this is outside of all like, religious divisions and such, it was just a pre-existing thing regarding their general behaviour and creating a sort of a country within a country...is that true in your experience?This is true. I'd say that most of them are integrated just fine but there definitely is a significant number of them that regularly cause problems and abuse our system and it is also this small proportion of people that is blowing up in our faces right now.Everybody here knows about it but most people try to ignore the problem.As a french who was naturalized, I'd say France is more than generous with foreigners or with its minorities and I genuinely find the sense of entitlement way out of place to be honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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