Terrorist attack thread

[Len Cnut]

Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".

Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.

The few french people i know have a lot of issues with a lot of Algerians and Arabs over there, or rather they didn't personally have one but explained that there was a sort of culture clash going on there between the two. I mean this is outside of all like, religious divisions and such, it was just a pre-existing thing regarding their general behaviour and creating a sort of a country within a country...is that true in your experience?

This is true. I'd say that most of them are integrated just fine but there definitely is a significant number of them that regularly cause problems and abuse our system and it is also this small proportion of people that is blowing up in our faces right now.

Everybody here knows about it but most people try to ignore the problem.

As a french who was naturalized, I'd say France is more than generous with foreigners or with its minorities and I genuinely find the sense of entitlement way out of place to be honest...

Whats it like over there right now? People must be tripping...are you near the spots where it happened?

[alfierose]

Manets is still in Paris btw?

Hope, he is ok

I hope so too. Is this a gig he would have likely gone to?

Fingers crossed he is safe if he is in Paris.

[MB.]

Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes?

I dont suppose they have a lot of choice, bunch of nutters with machine guns and what have you, a lot of people are executed in these takeovers, i suppose those are the ones who put up a fight or break the rules. Or perhaps its just plain old 'i dont wanna die'.

Who would you whistleblow to? Unless you mean about the terrorist cells over here? I dont suppose they go around advertising their attacks.

There was a group called Al Mouhajiroun over here, they (i say they, it always just seemed to be the same two lads) used to hang out near the top of town handing out leaflets and grabbing any vaguely muslim looking lad and give him a load of verbal about Islam and jihad and all that. One of em used to be a couple of years above me, all the lads used to give him beats for being a fatty. I suppose this was his revenge on the world. They even had this nursery rhyme type thing made up comparing him to a grizzly bear, i'll spare you the lyrics. He tried tugging my sleeve once, i just told him to fuck off

I know the head of the local mosque around here and i asked him about it and them and their group etc, he said they're a bunch of lunatics, they used to come and try and hand out flyers to people leaving friday prayer, they used to just tell em to bugger off. Coppers even came to him about them and he just said look, im not a policeman, they're nothing to do with me, what would you have me do and why should i claim responsibility for a group when i want em gone as much as you do. In saying that I'll do something about them i am essentially taking up responsibility for them when they are nothing to do with me or anything i have any control over.

I know, it is easier to just think it are a bunch of nutters, but it's not entirely. I think you also know that Lenny. There are certainly nutters among them, but it's not the whole extremist group. I think you can compare it with a sect. You don't have to be a nutter to fall for that, manny factors play a role. Your head of the mosque is the one who actually could achieve most by talking to them. People like him have been blind for too long as well. Actually in my country the ones going to Syria are often well educated pretty normal guys, who got under the influence of this ideology.

And Soulmonster, It's not partly motivated by religion, it's mainly motivated by religion. But that they are vunerable to extremism is due to many factors indeed. Huge tragedies like this sure would not happen if not for extremist Islam. I am annoyed by the sugarcoating. If you lived in a big European city, you know what is going on. It was already starting in the 90s, but people decided to shut their eyes.

And certainly not every muslim, cause in my country the immigrant muslim group from Turkey or Iran are doing way better then the group from the Moroc for example. They are a lot less vunerable to extremism. But they are also often less religious and higher educated, and I am talking about the parents. Also not only our society can be blamed. Cause the girls are doing way better, getting high education and are way ahead of the boys. Also less likely to fall for extremism, although ofcourse you have some. But often they are romancing the whole thing. There should be more self reflection, from every group involved. The mosques, the parents, the schools, the gouverment everybody. They should stop talking about the why and start doing something.

Something else the group falling for extremism are often not immigrants at all. Their parents or grandparents are. We are talking about second, third generation here falling for extremism.

Edited November 14, 2015 by MB.

[Chris1989]

Oh dear, less religious was just followed by more educated. Enter Dazey to hammer that point home!

[The Glow Inc.]

Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".

Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.

The few french people i know have a lot of issues with a lot of Algerians and Arabs over there, or rather they didn't personally have one but explained that there was a sort of culture clash going on there between the two. I mean this is outside of all like, religious divisions and such, it was just a pre-existing thing regarding their general behaviour and creating a sort of a country within a country...is that true in your experience?

This is true. I'd say that most of them are integrated just fine but there definitely is a significant number of them that regularly cause problems and abuse our system and it is also this small proportion of people that is blowing up in our faces right now.

Everybody here knows about it but most people try to ignore the problem.

As a french who was naturalized, I'd say France is more than generous with foreigners or with its minorities and I genuinely find the sense of entitlement way out of place to be honest...

Whats it like over there right now? People must be tripping...are you near the spots where it happened?

People are disgusted with the whole situation.

I am 15 kms from where it happened but I was supposed to go to a concert there only a few days from now so it could have been me.

Also, one of my colleagues and a very good friend of mine wanted to go to the EODM concert with her brother yesterday and luckily she couldn't because the show just sold out when she tried to get her tickets...

[Len Cnut]

I know, it is easier to just think it are a bunch of nutters, but it's not entirely. I think you also know that Lenny. There are certainly nutters among them, but it's not the whole extremist group. I think you can compare it with a sect. You don't have to be a nutter to fall for that, manny factors play a role

Anyone who believes in mass murder is a fuckin' nutbag, no matter how well educated or middle class he is. Nutter doesn't suggest ignorance, it suggests crazy bastard. And wilfully at that.

Your head of the mosque is the one who actually could achieve most by talking to them. People like him have been blind for too long as well.

It doesn't really work like that I'm afraid, you're working from the presupposition that they actually care what a person like him thinks, they just think of the elderly leaders as ignorant village idiots from somewhere in rural Pakistan, they not governed or led or under their command or will or order in any sense.

And Soulmonster, It's not partly motivated by religion, it's mainly motivated by religion. But that they are vunerable to extremism is due to many factors indeed. Huge tragedies like this sure would not happen if not for extremist Islam. I am annoyed by the sugarcoating. If you lived in a big European city, you know what is going on. It was already starting in the 90s, but people decided to shut their eyes.

I think there's a point where all the 'vulnerable' stuff becomes a bit of a cocksuck. Without wanting to be harsh, fuck em. I don't mean muslims on the whole i mean terrorists and terrorist groups and people that do these kinds of attacks. It's an act of war isn't it, you can't negotiate or communicate or offer therapy to some mad bastard trying to kill you and himself. In a direct sense, fuck em, once someone has those kinds of intentions the first priority should be self preservation and the preservation of the nation in question. A later issue might be looking at the international political situation and righting some of the wrongs that have led us to this fucked up situation...but that doesn't mean that the way to respond is mass murder of innocent people. I don't know what the fucking 'right way' is but you can't lay down to a bunch of people trying to do ya, it's just counter intelligent.

Terrorism and terrorists are the polar extreme of a particular political issue of the day they exist in, they don't do it for nothing just like the IRA didn't do it for nothing and the ANC didn't do it for nothing it's just what they are doing is a moral crime and a crime against humanity and it is not the way that any issue is ever dealt with, all it does is exacerbate the situation and weaken and invalidate their position.

Something else the group falling for extremism are often not immigrants at all. Their parents or grandparents are. We are talking about second, third generation here falling for extremism.

Exactly, which is why they don't listen to any leader of any mosque, a lot of whom are semi-literate immigrants that have been here from the 70s and 60s that they consider themselves intellectually superior too and more knowledgable than Islam than.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard

[MB.]

Thanks for answering Lenny. You have a good point there.

[Strange Broue]

Manets is still in Paris btw?

Hope, he is ok

I hope so too. Is this a gig he would have likely gone to?

Fingers crossed he is safe if he is in Paris.

I don't know if he is a fan of EODM or just out of curiousity he went to the show...

Hope we hear about him soon

[MB.]

Oh dear, less religious was just followed by more educated. Enter Dazey to hammer that point home!

I was talking about the parents btw.

Lenny, I knew guys who not just look down at the mosque leaders, but also at their parents who were hardly educated. But they seem to forget they worked their ass of in factories to get them good education.

[Towelie]

Eagles of Death Metal are in danger of being dropped by their French record label after a sharp decline in sales of their new album.

[Len Cnut]

Oh dear, less religious was just followed by more educated. Enter Dazey to hammer that point home!

I was talking about the parents btw.

Lenny, I knew guys who not just look down at the mosque leaders, but also at their parents who were hardly educated. But they seem to forget they worked their ass of in factories to get them good education.

Funny you should mention that i was having a similar discussion in a professional capacity just yesterday, this guy whoose Dad was a landlord and he had an immigrant lady living in his house and he was keeping the rent low even though rents have shot up because 'she is a good lady', seems fair to me, noble even...and his elder son was on the phone to me tripping out about 'what is it about old asian men, they always think they're right, why should i lose money because she's a good lady' and 'he really doesn't know what he's talking about, he doesn't have a clue about how the world works' and it occured to me that for someone so incapable and ignorant he's done alright for himself, owns his own house, and a spare property besides which he rents out, worked in a factory all his life and took care of his family...whilst you sit on your education in the house he paid for, passing judgement on how he chooses to conduct his affairs, it's all a bit rich.

Also, a lot of this stuff comes from Arabs? I mean I'm not trying to absolve my bunch because God knows a helluva lot of them, younger generation especially, are a part of all this but it doesn't come from them. People from my part of the world, by and large are kinda uneducated rural people and to be honest they don't really...grasp or get involved with or are privy too all the specifics about religion or understand every word of the Qu'ran and what it relates to, they just kinda get the whole basic pray five times a day and go by the ten commandments sort of religious behaviour. It's been ever since the very early 90s and the kind of rise of the more middle eastern/arab brand of Islam and its being strongly propagated in this country that a lot of extreme ideology has come about to which a great many of the younger generation seem to follow because it presents a reasoned and fundamentalist approach, it caters to intellect (base level intellect on a good day) whereas their parents brand kind of centred more on a very simplistic way of living, perhaps leaning a little more towards what they would consider kooky and superstitious and perhaps more related to certain old leftover Hindu tradition, with Pakistan and India being neighbours. So their heads are kinda turned by this more pure Arabic form which they consider to be the definitive article and the last word in terms of Islam, as opposed to how their parents raised them which they feel is kinda culturally influenced and diluted and...false i guess.

So yeah, funnily enough we were actually better off with the ignorant uneducated ones.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Strange Broue]

Now the shit hits the fan again...



http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/so-zipper-down-is-the-eagles-of-death-metal-response-to-terrorism-yeah/story-fnihsrf2-1227609259672

TWO months before the tragedy that unfolded one hour into their Paris concert, Eagles of Death Metal made a flippant joke to Rolling Stone
“We realize that our lack of putting out a record, that absence of Eagles of Death Metal music, had a really negative byproduct. There were all sorts of Middle East troubles and all these other things, so we’re sorry for that,” member Josh Homme said in the September 17 article.

“So essentially Zipper Down is the Eagles of Death Metal response to terrorism?” Rolling Stonejournalist Johnathan Dick asked.

“Yeah. We put out a record and human rights are better, the world feels better, people make more money, there’s less anger, people are more respectful to women and to homosexuals, and they’re generally nicer each other, they’re kinder to each other, and that’s why we really felt like it was time to let the healing begin,” Homme replied.

[MB.]

Oh dear, less religious was just followed by more educated. Enter Dazey to hammer that point home!

I was talking about the parents btw.

Lenny, I knew guys who not just look down at the mosque leaders, but also at their parents who were hardly educated. But they seem to forget they worked their ass of in factories to get them good education.

Funny you should mention that i was having a similar discussion in a professional capacity just yesterday, this guy whoose Dad was a landlord and he had an immigrant lady living in his house and he was keeping the rent low even though rents have shot up because 'she is a good lady', seems fair to me, noble even...and his elder son was on the phone to me tripping out about 'what is it about old asian men, they always think they're right, why should i lose money because she's a good lady' and 'he really doesn't know what he's talking about, he doesn't have a clue about how the world works' and it occured to me that for someone so incapable and ignorant he's done alright for himself, owns his own house, and a spare property besides which he rents out, worked in a factory all his life and took care of his family...whilst you sit on your education in the house he paid for, passing judgement on how he chooses to conduct his affairs, it's all a bit rich.

Also, a lot of this stuff comes from Arabs? I mean I'm not trying to absolve my bunch because God knows a helluva lot of them, younger generation especially, are a part of all this but it doesn't come from them. People from my part of the world, by and large are kinda uneducated rural people and to be honest they don't really...grasp or get involved with or are privy too all the specifics about religion or understand every word of the Qu'ran and what it relates to, they just kinda get the whole basic pray five times a day and go by the ten commandments sort of religious behaviour. It's been ever since the very early 90s and the kind of rise of the more middle eastern/arab brand of Islam and its being strongly propagated in this country that a lot of extreme ideology has come about to which a great many of the younger generation seem to follow because it presents a reasoned and fundamentalist approach, it caters to intellect (base level intellect on a good day) whereas their parents brand kind of centred more on a very simplistic way of living, perhaps leaning a little more towards what they would consider kooky and superstitious and perhaps more related to certain old leftover Hindu tradition, with Pakistan and India being neighbours. So their heads are kinda turned by this more pure Arabic form which they consider to be the definitive article and the last word in terms of Islam, as opposed to how their parents raised them which they feel is kinda culturally influenced and diluted and...false i guess.

So yeah, funnily enough we were actually better off with the ignorant uneducated ones.

Good post, agreed.

[alfierose]

Oh dear, less religious was just followed by more educated. Enter Dazey to hammer that point home!

I was talking about the parents btw.

Lenny, I knew guys who not just look down at the mosque leaders, but also at their parents who were hardly educated. But they seem to forget they worked their ass of in factories to get them good education.

Funny you should mention that i was having a similar discussion in a professional capacity just yesterday, this guy whoose Dad was a landlord and he had an immigrant lady living in his house and he was keeping the rent low even though rents have shot up because 'she is a good lady', seems fair to me, noble even...and his elder son was on the phone to me tripping out about 'what is it about old asian men, they always think they're right, why should i lose money because she's a good lady' and 'he really doesn't know what he's talking about, he doesn't have a clue about how the world works' and it occured to me that for someone so incapable and ignorant he's done alright for himself, owns his own house, and a spare property besides which he rents out, worked in a factory all his life and took care of his family...whilst you sit on your education in the house he paid for, passing judgement on how he chooses to conduct his affairs, it's all a bit rich.

Also, a lot of this stuff comes from Arabs? I mean I'm not trying to absolve my bunch because God knows a helluva lot of them, younger generation especially, are a part of all this but it doesn't come from them. People from my part of the world, by and large are kinda uneducated rural people and to be honest they don't really...grasp or get involved with or are privy too all the specifics about religion or understand every word of the Qu'ran and what it relates to, they just kinda get the whole basic pray five times a day and go by the ten commandments sort of religious behaviour. It's been ever since the very early 90s and the kind of rise of the more middle eastern/arab brand of Islam and its being strongly propagated in this country that a lot of extreme ideology has come about to which a great many of the younger generation seem to follow because it presents a reasoned and fundamentalist approach, it caters to intellect (base level intellect on a good day) whereas their parents brand kind of centred more on a very simplistic way of living, perhaps leaning a little more towards what they would consider kooky and superstitious and perhaps more related to certain old leftover Hindu tradition, with Pakistan and India being neighbours. So their heads are kinda turned by this more pure Arabic form which they consider to be the definitive article and the last word in terms of Islam, as opposed to how their parents raised them which they feel is kinda culturally influenced and diluted and...false i guess.

So yeah, funnily enough we were actually better off with the ignorant uneducated ones.

Good post, agreed.

Really interesting and insightful post Len.

[DeadSlash]

Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".

Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.

The few french people i know have a lot of issues with a lot of Algerians and Arabs over there, or rather they didn't personally have one but explained that there was a sort of culture clash going on there between the two. I mean this is outside of all like, religious divisions and such, it was just a pre-existing thing regarding their general behaviour and creating a sort of a country within a country...is that true in your experience?

This is true. I'd say that most of them are integrated just fine but there definitely is a significant number of them that regularly cause problems and abuse our system and it is also this small proportion of people that is blowing up in our faces right now.

Everybody here knows about it but most people try to ignore the problem.

As a french who was naturalized, I'd say France is more than generous with foreigners or with its minorities and I genuinely find the sense of entitlement way out of place to be honest...

Whats it like over there right now? People must be tripping...are you near the spots where it happened?

People are disgusted with the whole situation.

I am 15 kms from where it happened but I was supposed to go to a concert there only a few days from now so it could have been me.

Also, one of my colleagues and a very good friend of mine wanted to go to the EODM concert with her brother yesterday and luckily she couldn't because the show just sold out when she tried to get her tickets...

That's scary, my old man took flight 93 a week to the DAY before 9/11. He still has his ticket somewhere. It still gives me chills. I don't know you but I'm glad you're ok. That's fucking scary and crazy.

[DeadSlash]

Now the shit hits the fan again...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/so-zipper-down-is-the-eagles-of-death-metal-response-to-terrorism-yeah/story-fnihsrf2-1227609259672

TWO months before the tragedy that unfolded one hour into their Paris concert, Eagles of Death Metal made a flippant joke to Rolling Stone

“We realize that our lack of putting out a record, that absence of Eagles of Death Metal music, had a really negative byproduct. There were all sorts of Middle East troubles and all these other things, so we’re sorry for that,” member Josh Homme said in the September 17 article.

“So essentially Zipper Down is the Eagles of Death Metal response to terrorism?” Rolling Stonejournalist Johnathan Dick asked.

“Yeah. We put out a record and human rights are better, the world feels better, people make more money, there’s less anger, people are more respectful to women and to homosexuals, and they’re generally nicer each other, they’re kinder to each other, and that’s why we really felt like it was time to let the healing begin,” Homme replied.

I really hope that wasn't what caused them to be targeted. I don't even know how to say how that would make me feel without offending myself. I mean... if that statement is your justification for killing innocent people, you need to be removed from this earth. If words justify murder in your mind, you don't belong here. I just really hope that's not the reasoning. I know plenty of Muslims, and none of them have ever murdered anyone. If someone did this in the name of Islam, they aren't Muslim, they are a sub-human low down the evolution scale breed of insect and deserve to be treated as such.

Before anyone says it. "An eye for an eye leaves the world blind." I view that as a pro retaliation statement. Have you ever heard of 2 blind nations going to war? Can blind people shoot up movie theaters?

Didn't think so.

A blind world is pretty uneventful.

[Len Cnut]

I seriously doubt it, i don't think your average muslim extremist reads interviews by modern day metal bands

[EvH]

The burning of the Calais refugiee camp has been debunked as a hoax.

[Roky]

Neocolonialism must stop. The West is defending its industrial interests making wars under the "democracy" flag, complete hypocrisy. The Arabs have the right to live how they want in their countries without the Western countries intrusion.

[shades]

Our president just called this an "Act of War" and finally admitted that France was "at war".

Too bad it took him a year to realize what was brewing after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the Thalys failed attempt.

prayers out to all the victims and their families.

Edited November 14, 2015 by shades

[streak]

First and foremost, thoughts go out to all the vicitims, and thier families, in Paris, Beruit & Baghdad.

Len makes an excellent point about Arab strict Wahabi types who have come into the UK (and Europe) on asylum visas, who preach a strict radical branch of Islam to a younger, angry and pissed off generation who have had to grow up in harsh times, often suffering from racist abuse and discrimination. Their parents come from a different culture, and as aforementioned by Len and really don't 'understand' or get them, and massive cultural differences means that they don't really 'fit in'.

Couple that with a semi-religious background, the whole middle-east situation and you get an ideal scenerio for racialisation.

The thing that pisses me off is the massive intelliegence failures of these countries, with statements and articles such as 'we knew an attack was imminent', with statements from Baber Ahmed, Jihadi John etc all claiming MI5 were in regular contact with them and hrassing them. Which begs the question, could they have done more to prevent attacks?

Edited November 14, 2015 by streak

[SoulMonster]

And Soulmonster, It's not partly motivated by religion, it's mainly motivated by religion.

I didn't want to sort of weigh the various factors, just listed all I could think of.

To what extent religion is the main reason probably depends a lot upon the individuals. That being said, there is no denying that at the core of these terrorist organizations, like ISIL, are deeply religious individuals who believe that what they do - or rather what they get others to do - is right according to their interpretation of their religion. And these terrorists are indoctrinated and brainwashed into believing that what they do is to fight a holy war against enemies of their religion. To what extent each terrorist holds these beliefs at heart, and is their main driving force, probably varies a lot. But claiming this has nothing to do with religion, is naïve at best.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I know the American Right Wing just got an ass load of fuel for the coming election.... Trump is going to be our next president because of this, I bet. Which I have never been in favor of conservative ideas, but man... They might be crazy themselves, but when Shit like this happens you gotta ask yourself, maybe, just maybe, they have a point.I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east. I'm not saying thats a good thing, but (based on some things I've read in here) if 1 out of 10 little kids had some messed up ideas, that's actually a pretty large number.

If the (muslims) don't want to be persicuted, they need to start addressing this problem, take an active role in cleaning up your community. Which imo seems to be a real problem. Because the more of these types of terrorists attacks that take place, the less sympathy they are going to get. If the majority of the world becomes sick of your Shit....

Edited November 14, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east.

What, all the indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis, sri lankans, malaysians, indonesians, africans...all to the middle east? I can just see Busta Rhymes, Ghostface and Ice Cube all on a plane going 'what the fuck did we do now?!?' Least they'd get a plane ride with Bernard Hopkins and Muhammad Ali I suppose!

Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard

[streak]

I know the American Right Wing just got an ass load of fuel for the coming election.... Trump is going to be our next president because of this, I bet. Which I have never been in favor of conservative ideas, but man... They might be crazy themselves, but when Shit like this happens you gotta ask yourself, maybe, just maybe, they have a point.I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east. I'm not saying thats a good thing, but (based on some things I've read in here) if 1 out of 10 little kids had some messed up ideas, that's actually a pretty large number.

If the (muslims) don't want to be persicuted, they need to start addressing this problem, take an active role in cleaning up your community. Which imo seems to be a real problem. Because the more of these types of terrorists attacks that take place, the less sympathy they are going to get. If the majority of the world becomes sick of your Shit....

Stop bombing the middle east