amaninjapan Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 I baby all my lithos, cheap or expensive. I always hate to see anything of value get irreversibly damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenstar Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 With only 150 in the world...that ding doesn't mean shit to me. "Even the Mona Lisa is falling apart." I have never been a collector of anything to that extreme, infact I probably lean the other way and find beauty in the flaws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 45 minutes ago, owenstar said: With only 150 in the world...that ding doesn't mean shit to me. "Even the Mona Lisa is falling apart." I have never been a collector of anything to that extreme, infact I probably lean the other way and find beauty in the flaws. Finding beauty in flaws is vastly different than condition issues. The 150 print run doesn’t matter. There are sports cards with 25 print runs and damaged corner affects value. And the Mona Lisa, come now, surely you jest with that comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzi your illusion Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 3 hours ago, amaninjapan said: I baby all my lithos, cheap or expensive. I always hate to see anything of value get irreversibly damaged. Not holding you to anything but percentage wise how big of an issue is that dent. Do you think that is worth 10% less than a mint poster or are we being too generous with that? If you cant wager a guess as to what it does to the value then god help the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 2 hours ago, owenstar said: With only 150 in the world...that ding doesn't mean shit to me. "Even the Mona Lisa is falling apart." I have never been a collector of anything to that extreme, infact I probably lean the other way and find beauty in the flaws. I agree - but the Mona Lisa is 500 years old so I'll give it some slack! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 34 minutes ago, uzi your illusion said: Not holding you to anything but percentage wise how big of an issue is that dent. Do you think that is worth 10% less than a mint poster or are we being too generous with that? If you cant wager a guess as to what it does to the value then god help the rest of us. Oooooh that's too hard to call. I have a rough idea of how much less a damaged litho might go for compared to a mint one... but the real question people are probably asking themselves is, how much might this particular Kobe go for if the dude does in fact auction it off. If it sells for $1k on Ebay, does that mean that a tiny dent is worth $8k? Or would it be because the buyer of the first auction isn't competing in the second auction? Or are all the high rollers located in Belarus and the country's government accidentally turned on the censorship firewall at the wrong time and blocked their ability to bid? Maybe GNR releases a new album with a super deluxe meet & greet package for a few thousand bucks between now and the end of the auction and everybody blows their wad on that instead? What if the seller only offers shipping to the US (which is a restriction that happens a LOT more than people who live in the US might think) and reduces the size of the potential buyer market? The value clearly lies in the scarcity. But if that original auction might start drawing other potential sellers to let go of their Kobe and the market gets (comparatively) flooded, you might see some genuine buyers start to get picky. Beggars can't be choosers as they say but once you don't have to beg, then you get to choose, and if I'm going to be spending thousands, I'm gonna want to choose one in as best condition as possible. That said... don't look a gift horse in the mouth, right? How many chances does one expect to get to own one? With items this scarce, sometimes it's worthwhile to act like it could very well be your last chance to ever own one. No one will ever know which Kobe is the last one ever to be offered for sale in the history of the world until it's too late. I'll hazard a guess in private as to what it might go for but I won't do it publicly Regardless, if there's a lesson to be learned it is this - Take care of your lithos! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 16 hours ago, amaninjapan said: Oooooh that's too hard to call. I have a rough idea of how much less a damaged litho might go for compared to a mint one... but the real question people are probably asking themselves is, how much might this particular Kobe go for if the dude does in fact auction it off. If it sells for $1k on Ebay, does that mean that a tiny dent is worth $8k? Or would it be because the buyer of the first auction isn't competing in the second auction? Or are all the high rollers located in Belarus and the country's government accidentally turned on the censorship firewall at the wrong time and blocked their ability to bid? Maybe GNR releases a new album with a super deluxe meet & greet package for a few thousand bucks between now and the end of the auction and everybody blows their wad on that instead? What if the seller only offers shipping to the US (which is a restriction that happens a LOT more than people who live in the US might think) and reduces the size of the potential buyer market? The value clearly lies in the scarcity. But if that original auction might start drawing other potential sellers to let go of their Kobe and the market gets (comparatively) flooded, you might see some genuine buyers start to get picky. Beggars can't be choosers as they say but once you don't have to beg, then you get to choose, and if I'm going to be spending thousands, I'm gonna want to choose one in as best condition as possible. That said... don't look a gift horse in the mouth, right? How many chances does one expect to get to own one? With items this scarce, sometimes it's worthwhile to act like it could very well be your last chance to ever own one. No one will ever know which Kobe is the last one ever to be offered for sale in the history of the world until it's too late. I'll hazard a guess in private as to what it might go for but I won't do it publicly Regardless, if there's a lesson to be learned it is this - Take care of your lithos! Are you concerned your estimate will affect a possible auction and price because your opinion is held in high regard in the litho community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 17 hours ago, uzi your illusion said: Not holding you to anything but percentage wise how big of an issue is that dent. Do you think that is worth 10% less than a mint poster or are we being too generous with that? If you cant wager a guess as to what it does to the value then god help the rest of us. I would say 10% minimum, but that assessment doesn’t give you much information because there is no set value or known value. And, I don’t know if the eBay auction is a good indication of the lithos value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaguns1982 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Can I ask how many of the Kobe’s are actually accounted for? It’s hilarious to me how many dudes probably slapped it up on the wall in their garage with pins or got damaged because they just treated it like a gig poster. One of my doubles got fucked up because I had it in the spare room at my moms house where it should have been safe and her dog jumped all over it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said: Are you concerned your estimate will affect a possible auction and price because your opinion is held in high regard in the litho community? No not at all, I'm not arrogant enough to think I'd have that much of an effect. I think the amount of potential Kobe buyers who read my comments in this thread are a very small subset of the potential buyer pool. On top of that, I'm not Warren Buffet of the litho world, my opinion is just my opinion and nothing more. But I'm smart enough to know that any estimate or prediction on price is more likely to be wrong than right, so trying to be a fortune teller is a losing proposition to me If you want to ask me whether it will sell or not, then sure yes I'm fairly confident it will haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said: Can I ask how many of the Kobe’s are actually accounted for? It’s hilarious to me how many dudes probably slapped it up on the wall in their garage with pins or got damaged because they just treated it like a gig poster. One of my doubles got fucked up because I had it in the spare room at my moms house where it should have been safe and her dog jumped all over it. I’ve often wondered how many Kobe lithos are accounted for as well. As for somebody “slapping a Kobe litho up in their garage with pins” is a absurdly hilarious suggestion. I doubt any litho was purchased and treated as just as a normal poster. Are you saying you had a double of a Kobe litho? Your post lacked specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said: Can I ask how many of the Kobe’s are actually accounted for? It’s hilarious to me how many dudes probably slapped it up on the wall in their garage with pins or got damaged because they just treated it like a gig poster. One of my doubles got fucked up because I had it in the spare room at my moms house where it should have been safe and her dog jumped all over it. Man, I wish this could be answered for all the lithos, not just Kobe hah. I know that there's car collectors out there that maintain a registry or a database keeping track of rare, low-volume cars - that way if there is a change in ownership, an accident or whatever, an extensive history and provenance exists for every VIN. In a dorky kinda way, I would think something like that would be cool for numbered lithographs however we all know that would be impossible, practically speaking. I would say a vast majority of GNR lithograph owners give zero fucks about the value of their poster and just see it as a piece of merch to pin up on the wall and serve as a cool memory of an awesome life experience. These would not be the type of people who would participate in such a thing (and I don't blame them) so even if we tried to start such a registry, even best case scenario I think MAYBE we would end up with 10% of the numbers accounted for. And I think that would be an optimistic figure. But yes, I am sure for every poster from the tour, there is at least one out there that just got manhandled and roughly pinned up on a wall somewhere. There is at least one that got ruined trying to protect it at the show. There is at least one that got damaged or lost getting it home after the show. A real shame but it's inevitable. Reminds me of the Antiques Roadshow episode where a woman brought in her late brother's Jimi Hendrix poster collection. He had treated them like you would expect for a young kid in the 60s/70s and pinned them up on his wall. Even with the pinholes, they're worth thousands and thousands. But imagine how much more they'd be worth in pristine condition! So again I urge you all - Take care of your lithos! Also, it's crazy to think that a 3 year old poster commands more money than a 40/50 year old poster! I know there's so many variables that it's almost like comparing apples to oranges, but still impressive nonetheless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaguns1982 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said: I’ve often wondered how many Kobe lithos are accounted for as well. As for somebody “slapping a Kobe litho up in their garage with pins” is a absurdly hilarious suggestion. I doubt any litho was purchased and treated as just as a normal poster. Are you saying you had a double of a Kobe litho? Your post lacked specifics. The one that got ruined was a Brisbane black surfer. Nothing special. mine thought I’ve had was that the Kobe may not have sold at all. I know it’s diabolical but anyone can throw a litho on eBay and have some mates bid on it.... I know for a fact that there were several fake bidders on that Kobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said: The one that got ruined was a Brisbane black surfer. Nothing special. mine thought I’ve had was that the Kobe may not have sold at all. I know it’s diabolical but anyone can throw a litho on eBay and have some mates bid on it.... I know for a fact that there were several fake bidders on that Kobe. If you're talking about The Holographic Universe admitting himself in this thread that he deliberately raised the price early on... I think it's unfair to call him a fake bidder. I think he'll agree that if he had won it at $3k, he would have been very happy to win it at $3k and like I mentioned to someone else - yes anybody can throw a litho on Ebay and have a friend bid on it. But if it sells (which Kobe did), then the seller is obligated to pay a final sale fee. Final sale fee for an auction that ends at $9000 is about a thousand dollars, even more once Paypal takes their cut too. That's a lot of money to spend for a fake auction. Fake auctions are usually cancelled before they sell. That way the seller avoids the final sale fee. We all saw the auction finish so like I said, that's a big gamble to take and a big price to pay just to stir up some controversy in a very, very small subset of the GNR fanbase that cares this much about lithos/merch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said: The one that got ruined was a Brisbane black surfer. Nothing special. mine thought I’ve had was that the Kobe may not have sold at all. I know it’s diabolical but anyone can throw a litho on eBay and have some mates bid on it.... I know for a fact that there were several fake bidders on that Kobe. Guilty as charged, but I discussed the idea on Facebook before committing. I just didn’t want to wait for as it climbed in small increments. Seeing it sit for 543$ was silly. I would have came in my pants to win that auction at 3k. Fuck, I was giddy just to bid on it. 2 years ago 3k would be unheard of and now it won’t get you a whiff of Kobe. Edited September 26, 2020 by The Holographic Universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 My lithos have been in Target frames so I bet they would be a bit curvy if I ever took them out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said: Guilty as charged, but I discussed the idea on Facebook before committing. I just didn’t want to wait for as it climbed in small increments. Seeing it sit for 543$ was silly. 11 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said: My lithos have been in Target frames so I bet they would be a bit curvy if I ever took them out So you recall the moment for you when the lithos became a thing? I ask since it’s your thread. I recall begging a friend stationed in Japan to drive to Tokyo for me. That litho ended up being two colors with a total print run of 1500 combined. So it never had a chance for value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 30 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said: My lithos have been in Target frames so I bet they would be a bit curvy if I ever took them out Surely not! I mean, flat is flat, right? Unless you have a problem with humidity, I'm sure they'd be flat as a pancake if they've been in frame for 4 years. I mean yes it's Target so I'm not expecting them to be high quality frames but still I would've thought even the cheapest, shittiest frame would still not fail at the task of keeping something flat inside itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said: My lithos have been in Target frames so I bet they would be a bit curvy if I ever took them out You were at the first show. What was your thoughts on seeing the litho? Did you purchase before or after the show? What’s the story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, amaninjapan said: Surely not! I mean, flat is flat, right? Unless you have a problem with humidity, I'm sure they'd be flat as a pancake if they've been in frame for 4 years. I mean yes it's Target so I'm not expecting them to be high quality frames but still I would've thought even the cheapest, shittiest frame would still not fail at the task of keeping something flat inside itself I noticed the other day that they aren't as flat as they look. We are about to move so I might check one out when I pack them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 minute ago, ZoSoRose said: I noticed the other day that they aren't as flat as they look. We are about to move so I might check one out when I pack them As long as there's no issue with humidity, I wouldn't be worried. Just put them in one of those frames from Michael's that they discount every few months. Even the regular price is cheap but if you're buying in bulk, best to wait until they inevitable discount them and then clear them out of all their current stock haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said: You were at the first show. What was your thoughts on seeing the litho? Did you purchase before or after the show? What’s the story? Oh that reminds me, I got this as a gift from a friend. If this isn't enough motivation to frame up the Troubadour lithograph then I don't know what is 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, amaninjapan said: Oh that reminds me, I got this as a gift from a friend. If this isn't enough motivation to frame up the Troubadour lithograph then I don't know what is Well, whenever you want to put down the Samurai sword and make those frames I’m waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenstar Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/24/2020 at 10:39 PM, The Holographic Universe said: Finding beauty in flaws is vastly different than condition issues. The 150 print run doesn’t matter. There are sports cards with 25 print runs and damaged corner affects value. And the Mona Lisa, come now, surely you jest with that comparison. Sorry dude, I completely whiffed on explaining that. I understand how condition effects value in a collector world. I was only speaking for myself, that if I owned the only dinged Kobe, I would be just as happy and proud of it as the dude who has one mint. Its just how I am wired. Due to it being limited, it just wouldn't bother me like it does "normal" collectors. Value has nothing to do with MY collection. Thats all I meant. The Mona Lisa thing is from the movie/book Fight Club. It struck a cord with me many moons ago. Now that I have played therapist with myself and opened the door to many bad choices with women, I'm going to see my self out hahaha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaninjapan Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, owenstar said: Sorry dude, I completely whiffed on explaining that. I understand how condition effects value in a collector world. I was only speaking for myself, that if I owned the only dinged Kobe, I would be just as happy and proud of it as the dude who has one mint. Its just how I am wired. Due to it being limited, it just wouldn't bother me like it does "normal" collectors. Value has nothing to do with MY collection. Thats all I meant. The Mona Lisa thing is from the movie/book Fight Club. It struck a cord with me many moons ago. Now that I have played therapist with myself and opened the door to many bad choices with women, I'm going to see my self out hahaha. Fight Club is one of my favorite films, the reference wasn't lost on me It's one of my favorite lines along with "I felt like destroying something beautiful" I think there can be beauty in a damaged item, especially so if it comes with a story. A bit like how crazy watch collectors pay top dollar for totally busted vintage Rolexes when they come with a cool back story. I distinctly remember the story about the guy who listed his completely busted up Rolex on Ebay for 9.95 and it ended up selling for $66khttps://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/man-lists-james-bond-rolex-9-95-sells-it-66-flna126106 Completely beat to shit but it comes with an amazing back story! The guy was retired Navy, bought the watch out of necessity and then used it daily for the next 35 years of his life. That Kobe is obviously nowhere nearly as damaged so I'm guessing it will attract plenty of bids. Edited September 26, 2020 by amaninjapan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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