British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

Who'd have thought the greens would have a sense of humour.

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Who'd have thought the greens would have a sense of humour.

Fucking mung bean eating hippie scum

[Dazey]

36 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Who'd have thought the greens would have a sense of humour.

Uurrrgh! Right I'm off to taunt a Guardian reader in retaliation.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

 I am wearing a Neil Young Harvest shirt as I speak which I am told is thoroughly organic.

[AtariLegend]

NHS attack today... this is going to be politicized. 

[DieselDaisy]

I'm surprised, Atari, you've not posted about May being attacked over disability cuts? When politicians get attacked by the great unwashed!

[AtariLegend]

Nothing to left say there, everyone knows they hate the poor (hence the questionable definition of just about managing to them) and the disabled.

I did find it repulsive though hearing her talking about protecting workers rights including the EU ones, that she and her cabinet have spent years complaining about. Forget all that stuff about a bonfire of workers rights, we're actually going to protect them all! Tories the party of commoners!

Edited May 15, 2017 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

10 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Nothing to left say there, everyone knows they hate the poor (hence the questionable definition of just about managing to them) and the disabled.

I did find it repulsive though hearing her talking about protecting workers rights including the EU ones, that she and her cabinet have spent years complaining about. Forget all that stuff about a bonfire of workers rights, we're actually going to protect them all! Tories the party of commoners!

She needs to fund her 900 pound trews from somewhere, why not the commoners?

[DieselDaisy]

Politics is completely depressing. I honestly could not vote for any of these people - you'd have to put me under gunpoint and even then I would probably vote Lord Such. I've never seen such a dispiriting election and an unlikelier bunch of candidates as 2017. A chamber of horrors.

When will Blair reunite Ugly Rumours incidentally?

[wasted]

I have never voted. At first I thought I was lazy, in retrospect I was smart. There's a lot to be said for apathy.

[DieselDaisy]

10 minutes ago, wasted said:

I have never voted. At first I thought I was lazy, in retrospect I was smart. There's a lot to be said for apathy.

Needs more Chinese Democracy (one and two) discussions in these party manifestos of theirs.

[wasted]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Needs more Chinese Democracy (one and two) discussions in these party manifestos of theirs.

The only freedom is a dirt road. 

[Archtop]

I find it worrying the amount of my friends, colleagues and poeople in general who are talking about not voting in this election as they don't feel represented.  I understand with a real lack of opposition to May's conservatives the appeal of throwing your hands up and saying I'm not going to vote might seem like a logical answer, but don't you think this is what May was banking on. labour is in crises and many staunch supporters lack confidence in Corbyn, Lib dem poses little threat with so few seats and UKIP, is that still a thing? Consertives are banking on the majority vote even if it is expected to be the lowest majority post war, and those abstaining from voting are unwittingly playing right into their hands.

I have my own dilemma, always a labour supporter, the current manifesto promises education, infrastructure, NHS and Childcare, all biggies but at what cost, increased taxes and national debt? and above all I really can not see Corbyn running the country. 

Alternativly I could vote Lib dem, I did in the locals, our candidate is hard working and has addressed some of our local issues relentlessly, though up agaisnt a conservative seat. Once again he didn't get through but then this is a farming community I never expected him to. I not sure how I feel about Farron but Lib dems are promising an EU referendum, and I desperately want this, I work in pharmaceutical industry and Brexit has hit it hard, research grants, exchange rates and most  importantly as I work for in the distribution sector importing from America into the UK and Europe,the pending upheaval with trade agreements has ment two of our biggest suppliers decided to start setting up European offices. Uncertain of the future and all ready losing some business we start our first wave of voluntary redundancies in July.

Unfortunalty I see little chance of Lib dems getting in, perhaps we can have a national campaign for all the vote stays to get behind them.

I get that my vote is just one, but I don't want to see May's government get another 5 years due to apathy, or people assuming there one vote won't collectively make a difference, I am all ready questioning if a 50% turn out constitutes a healthy democracy, it's hardly representative is it.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Archtop

[MillionsOfSpiders]

I don't know what any government can do about the NHS now. It seems doomed. 

[AtariLegend]

2 hours ago, Archtop said:

increased taxes and national debt?

Do you earn over £80,000? Even if you did, it's not that much extra. The only big difference is past the £120,000 mark. As for the debt, it's risen quite a bit under the current government.

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I don't know what any government can do about the NHS now. It seems doomed. 

That's what Murdoch, Dacre want you think. The whole point is sabotage it, complain about it, blame it on the system itself to get people to be more open to the idea of paying for health care. 

They have spending cuts or relocate the money to other services pretend that everything's hunky dory. Here's a book our health sectary wrote; http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html

These are nasty people in power.

2 hours ago, Archtop said:

I am all ready questioning if a 50% turn out constitutes a healthy democracy, it's hardly representative is it.

It isn't. I'd personally prefer PR if it was a choice between the two *and it's not perfect either*, at least that way no party is getting more than 50% of the seats and they're forced to work together. It should be able to prevent more divisive policies.

Edited May 16, 2017 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

4 hours ago, Archtop said:

I find it worrying the amount of my friends, colleagues and poeople in general who are talking about not voting in this election as they don't feel represented.  I understand with a real lack of opposition to May's conservatives the appeal of throwing your hands up and saying I'm not going to vote might seem like a logical answer, but don't you think this is what May was banking on. labour is in crises and many staunch supporters lack confidence in Corbyn, Lib dem poses little threat with so few seats and UKIP, is that still a thing? Consertives are banking on the majority vote even if it is expected to be the lowest majority post war, and those abstaining from voting are unwittingly playing right into their hands.

I have my own dilemma, always a labour supporter, the current manifesto promises education, infrastructure, NHS and Childcare, all biggies but at what cost, increased taxes and national debt? and above all I really can not see Corbyn running the country. 

Alternativly I could vote Lib dem, I did in the locals, our candidate is hard working and has addressed some of our local issues relentlessly, though up agaisnt a conservative seat. Once again he didn't get through but then this is a farming community I never expected him to. I not sure how I feel about Farron but Lib dems are promising an EU referendum, and I desperately want this, I work in pharmaceutical industry and Brexit has hit it hard, research grants, exchange rates and most  importantly as I work for in the distribution sector importing from America into the UK and Europe,the pending upheaval with trade agreements has ment two of our biggest suppliers decided to start setting up European offices. Uncertain of the future and all ready losing some business we start our first wave of voluntary redundancies in July.

Unfortunalty I see little chance of Lib dems getting in, perhaps we can have a national campaign for all the vote stays to get behind them.

I get that my vote is just one, but I don't want to see May's government get another 5 years due to apathy, or people assuming there one vote won't collectively make a difference, I am all ready questioning if a 50% turn out constitutes a healthy democracy, it's hardly representative is it.

And to the ''you should vote'' argument I always reply with the exact same thing, ''then who should I vote for?''. They are all about equally repellent to my eyes.

[wasted]

If labour win it will be the shitshow to end all shitshows. 

You leave europe then bring back the unions, I just can't see union leaders in Africa doing diamond deals to save the economy. There's all this financial services shennigans that has to happen. Off shore acounts, hedge funds. Not paying nurses to top dollar to jab needles in arses. 

[AtariLegend]

What in the fuck are you on about wasted?

[wasted]

1 hour ago, AtariLegend said:

What in the fuck are you on about wasted?

To me Brexit is about certain groups of people who would benefit, the rich involved in financial services, lawyers who will make money organizing all these changes, small businesses or just rich who think they can make more on their own terms. Obviously they lobbied the poor on immigration but that's where the idea comes from, some belief that they can get more. That's really the only way for it to be successful in a way. But then Corbyn is talking about 70s style unions and spending on the state. These two approaches seem diametrically opposed and almost incompatible. 

[DieselDaisy]

Labour cannot win but I have a sneaky feeling they will not do as disastrously as some pollstars believe. I believe some are warming to Corbyn's low key persona.

[Padme]

5 hours ago, wasted said:

To me Brexit is about certain groups of people who would benefit, the rich involved in financial services, lawyers who will make money organizing all these changes, small businesses or just rich who think they can make more on their own terms. Obviously they lobbied the poor on immigration but that's where the idea comes from, some belief that they can get more. That's really the only way for it to be successful in a way. But then Corbyn is talking about 70s style unions and spending on the state. These two approaches seem diametrically opposed and almost incompatible. 

Actually both sides want to go back to past. The Brexit people dream about the empire, the industrial revolution, made in UK, the UK at the top of the world. They think Brexit can get them some of that back. And yes, Corbyn wants the 70s, rich against poor, the government running everything. It is a form of nationalism. But at the same time he wants way too soft Brexit. Neither pro Brexit people nor the EU would agree with any of that.

This is the 21st century and globalization is here to stay. Running away from that reality and going back to the past is not going to fix any problem

[AtariLegend]

5 hours ago, wasted said:

To me Brexit is about certain groups of people who would benefit, the rich involved in financial services, lawyers who will make money organizing all these changes, small businesses or just rich who think they can make more on their own terms. Obviously they lobbied the poor on immigration but that's where the idea comes from, some belief that they can get more. That's really the only way for it to be successful in a way. But then Corbyn is talking about 70s style unions and spending on the state. These two approaches seem diametrically opposed and almost incompatible. 

You were talking about African union leaders.

26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Labour cannot win but I have a sneaky feeling they will not do as disastrously as some pollstars believe. I believe some are warming to Corbyn's low key persona.

In some of the most recent polling, the percentage of the vote (which is probably off) is slightly better than the 2015 results *but still means lost seats*. It's all these these UKIP/leave votes going to the Tories. 

I just cannot comprehend how the Tories are polling not that far off 50%.

[wasted]

20 minutes ago, Padme said:

Actually both sides want to go back to past. The Brexit people dream about the empire, the industrial revolution, made in UK, the UK at the top of the world. They think Brexit can get them some of that back. And yes, Corbyn wants the 70s, rich against poor, the government running everything. It is a form of nationalism. But at the same time he wants way too soft Brexit. Neither pro Brexit people nor the EU would agree with any of that.

This is the 21st century and globalization is here to stay. Running away from that reality and going back to the past is not going to fix any problem

My feeling is that whatever the Tory financial set see in Brexit is probably what might work out. And labours version might just focus on the wrong things. I think the Tories only sold that empire stuff to get a more favourable situation for business, where's fu damentally Corbyn just seems old school, he'd be better off in the EU borrowing money to pay union leaders. 

[wasted]

14 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

You were talking about African union leaders.

In some of the most recent polling, the percentage of the vote (which is probably off) is slightly better than the 2015 results *but still means lost seats*. It's all these these UKIP/leave votes going to the Tories. 

I just cannot comprehend how the Tories are polling not that far off 50%.

Oh ok. I was compiling 3 points into one. Er, I was thinking out of the EU we will have to strike up new alliances, like with diamond traders in Africa, as an off the cuff example. I just can't see this working with the union leaders who are like socialist CEOs. They want every for them and are generally more national in focus. 

[wasted]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Labour cannot win but I have a sneaky feeling they will not do as disastrously as some pollstars believe. I believe some are warming to Corbyn's low key persona.

I know people who like Corbyn, just on the rhetoric. There's a sort of back to basics, caring feel about him. Festival people, they're not horrible people or anything, just a little narrow minded, but given the potential disasters with brexit maybe they are right. But they aren't really effected by those issues.