Greta Thunberg's Groupie

[DieselDaisy]

She clearly envisions the impacts of climate change in her own lifetime,

[soon]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, I was just having fun imagining a TV set with a coal engine and some miners shovelling coal into it.

HAHA, I kinda knew that but was in 'on' mode, advocacy wise. Sorry! 

Hilarious image!

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by soon

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Everything Greta says seems to be against a gradualist, ''yes, we make small changes here, and have a few discussions - but we can still fly'', type approach,

Again, you are confusing urgency with having to enact hysterical measures. The urgency for Greta is to get politicians to enact global fossil fuel emission regulations, because that is key to reversing the trend. Her urgency is not to make people stop drinking sodas with straws. Or to end all business travel now. Or to make us not use telephones and TVs. You simply don't get it. 

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

She clearly envisions the impacts of climate change in her own lifetime,

Eh, yes, we are already seeing the impact of climate change in our times. 

In a way it is actually cool that you now read a bit about her and what she has said, even though it seems you are not really understanding what she is saying 

[soon]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

She clearly envisions the impacts of climate change in her own lifetime,

Yes, because thats what Climate Scientists tell us.

We should really set up an auto-reply with this fact for every time you post in this thread. 

******

2 braids, 'not your ingenue' Greta has still gotta be my favourite Greta.  

Edited December 17, 2019 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, soon said:

Yes, because thats what Climate Scientists tell us.

Then you should all stop using fossil fuels now or you are all a load of hypocrites. If the crisis is that urgent, surely you'd want to...? 

[soon]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Then you should all stop using fossil fuels now or you are all a load of hypocrites. If the crisis is that urgent, surely you'd want to...? 

And just like that we are right back to the beginning of your ridiculous and deeply flawed understanding. 

I installed a solar panel last week, since you asked though. But the main responsibility is with those with power to shift the numbers Business and Government. Those who can make changes over your head, because you are unable to take care of your own future.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Then you should all stop using fossil fuels now or you are all a load of hypocrites. If the crisis is that urgent, surely you'd want to...? 

No, because scientists doesn't tell us that that is required. What needs to be done is to reduce global carbon emission by a certain percentage. That can happen in any which way, usually and most realistically by a multi-pronged approach that involves primarily a reduction in industry emission but also a general shift from fossil fuels to less polluting fuels. Of course it helps if individuals do their bit, but it is in vain unless we get industry along. And as long as industry use fossil fuels for manufacture of all the things we need, it is not possible on an individual level to escape this. A system change is required and the most important thing is to get politicians to enact stricter regulations. But shit, I realize now this was way to complicated for you.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

And just like that we are right back to the beginning of your ridiculous and deeply flawed understanding. 

I installed a solar panel last week, since you asked though. But the main responsibility is with those with power to shift the numbers Business and Government. Those who can make changes over your head, because you are unable to take care of your own future.

Ahh - that is it!! We finally arrive at the explanation for all this moralizing cant. Climate warriors are not willing to subordinate their personal needs to the impending catastrophe that is climate change. They will not cross that bridge.

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

things we need,

We are about to face Armageddon, so I hope these are the barest necessities?

[soon]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Ahh - that is it!! We finally arrive at the explanation for all this moralizing cant. Climate warriors are not willing to subordinate their personal needs to the impending catastrophe that is climate change. They will not cross that bridge.

No. My installation of an expensive solar unit does not display that. And you are clearly unable to care for your own future. Its established fact.

We are calling for system change in light of scientific findings. *Yawn*

Also, its inevitable that the Greta memes you posted will turn people onto the environmental movement. So thanks for that! 

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Ahh - that is it!! We finally arrive at the explanation for all this moralizing cant. Climate warriors are not willing to subordinate their personal needs to the impending catastrophe that is climate change. 

I would think most climate warriors are doing more than necessary on a personal level to reduce carbon emission. Your idea that they need to do more is just a logical fallacy. You are simply not intelligent enough to get this.

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

No, because scientists doesn't tell us that that is required. What needs to be done is to reduce global carbon emission by a certain percentage. That can happen in any which way, usually and most realistically by a multi-pronged approach that involves primarily a reduction in industry emission but also a general shift from fossil fuels to less polluting fuels. Of course it helps if individuals do their bit, but it is in vain unless we get industry along. And as long as industry use fossil fuels for manufacture of all the things we need, it is not possible on an individual level to escape this. A system change is required and the most important thing is to get politicians to enact stricter regulations. But shit, I realize now this was way to complicated for you.

I think he has a secret plan to bring back the territorial fishing waters of Northumberland by ensuring that the whole area is 6 feet below sea level. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

I think he has a secret plan to bring back the territorial fishing waters of Northumberland by ensuring that the whole area is 6 feet below see level. 

Ironic how you are obsessed with the economic arguments on Britain staying in the EU, and perceive that I neglect the economic sphere, yet examples of the economic that I have discussed, but have proven detrimental to the member state such as the Common Fisheries Policy (on Britain), you deal with in such a facetious and flippant manner - I cannot remember you given much thought to the Greek Crisis either, or Italy?

Yet,

Here I am. Discussing the EU. Pertaining to the economic.

Hmm!

[soon]

[EvanG]

Special international trains to Rotterdam for the Eurovision next year. Smart thinking! 

https://escxtra.com/2019/12/17/parliament-international-trains-eurovision-2020/

Edited December 17, 2019 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]

The thing I don't get about the Greta phenomenon is, well, why her?  I mean everyone knows about this shit right, climate change, looking after the envoirnment, its the reason why councils have been enforcing shit like recycling etc etc for yonks now.  So my question again, why her, why this is this little girl being made such a big deal of?  I get the distinct feeling I'm being sold something.  I don't have anything against her myself, I think all in all what she's standing for or whatever is admirable enough, I just don't understand the whole situation in terms of the propagation of her. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Len Cnut

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

The thing I don't get about the Greta phenomenon is, well, why her?  I mean everyone knows about this shit right, climate change, looking after the envoirnment, its the reason why councils have been enforcing shit like recycling etc etc for yonks now.  So my question again, why her, why this is this little girl being made such a big deal of?  I get the distinct feeling I'm being sold something.  I don't have anything against her myself, I think all in all what she's standing for or whatever is admirable enough, I just don't understand the whole situation in terms of the propagation of her. 

The media just loved the story of a young girl demonstrating alone against politicians in Sweden. So they gave her a platform and traction to become a very busy activist. But I think the phenomenon Greta is a bit different than the person Greta in the sense that she is being used as a token figure probably often for opinions and statements she hasn't said or stand behind, and media will lift her up and caricature her, and pundits will write about the phenomenon more than her yet everybody connects her face to it. It is sort of out of her control, I suppose. But she exploits the platform given to her, and the means provided to her, to speak out against the procrastination of the politicians as much as she can.

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The media just loved the story of a young girl demonstrating alone against politicians in Sweden. So they gave her a platform and traction to become a very busy activist. But I think the phenomenon Greta is a bit different than the person Greta in the sense that she is being used as a token figure probably often for opinions and statements she hasn't said or stand behind, and media will lift her up and caricature her, and pundits will write about the phenomenon more than her yet everybody connects her face to it. It is sort of out of her control, I suppose. But she exploits the platform given to her, and the means provided to her, to speak out against the procrastination of the politicians as much as she can.

I get the feeling the girl is gonna suffer.

[soon]

42 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

The thing I don't get about the Greta phenomenon is, well, why her?  I mean everyone knows about this shit right, climate change, looking after the envoirnment, its the reason why councils have been enforcing shit like recycling etc etc for yonks now.  So my question again, why her, why this is this little girl being made such a big deal of?  I get the distinct feeling I'm being sold something.  I don't have anything against her myself, I think all in all what she's standing for or whatever is admirable enough, I just don't understand the whole situation in terms of the propagation of her. 

She started striking all by herself. She would strike from school on her own and have a single person protest infront of the Swedish Parliament. This inspired others to join her. This is now called Fridays For Future #FFF. So around the world students strike on Fridays, as inspired by Greta.

Greta started doing this because the numbers show that recycling and such are not sufficient on their own to meet the imperatives to avert climate disaster. She is especially motivated by the IPCCs report of 2018/2017(?) that showed that we had 12 years to reduce global warming to 1.5 degrees. The famed Paris Agreement wouldn't even meet this need (if the world leaders ever intended to meet those commitments to begin with). This report marks a major turning point for the world and she seems to be one of the few common people who was able to translate the urgency of the times into concrete action. She had the vision to leverage the power of the student body to contend against the ecocidal maniacs running the show. 

I think the conspiracy theories that shes been put up to this by some shadowy force is more down to the fact that this is a Zoomer movement using social media and high school cafeterias. So it can seem opaque to us elders. But its a completely organic movement that started with her and her parents.

She's "the absolute lass" if I understand that Brit meme correctly.

Ive just woke up, but I believe this should be the report she cites https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ 

Edited December 18, 2019 by soon

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I get the feeling the girl is gonna suffer.

She is convinced we are all going to suffer.

[soon]

Canadian scientist and Public Television personality David Suzuki is a mainstream figure who runs an NGO that he launched to further environmentalism. Now in his 80s, our even keeled elder statesmen holds no punches. This very rationale and sober man sounds every bit like Greta. In fact he's far more angry. And far more direct with his words for the Prime Minstrel. Because the situation warrants it.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/03/05/news/david-suzuki-fires-death-zone-trudeau-weaver-and-broken-system

[action]

the debate has shifted from the environment, the cause, to greta, the person. I have been partial to this, but I refuse to solely take the blame for this. Far and wide, people are commenting on her persona and so the attention is effectively shifted from the real issue (the environment) to herself.

I dont know if a shadowy movement is behind her positioning, or if she has done all that by herself, but either way: it turned out bad for the debate for the reasons I just mentioned.

The result of her actions is, the environmental movement is slowly becoming the laughing stock, and detractors find an easy target with greta. I find, that the large and increasing group of people behind greta aren't taken serious anymore, because they have a kid as their "leader". Her supporters think she does great (that's why they're supporters) but they are blind for the fact that many other people aren't taking her serious, and if you ask me it doesn't appear to get any better, it's getting worse.

who should have been a better person to lead the environmental cause? I don't know. We're talking about changing the mindset of a civilisation on a world-wide level, no small feat I would guess. Is there anyone who really believes that to be possible? I don't believe so (which does not mean that I don't 'want' it).

Who's not to say the sun is getting hotter, and that's what causing climate change? We know little to nothing about the sun, and we're aspiring to change our climate on a world wide scale? Keep on dreaming and smoking weed I say. Meanwhile, I'll just make the best of my time on here. Don't care if that makes me selfish, at least I'm not naive.

Edited December 18, 2019 by action

[soon]

2 minutes ago, action said:

Who's not to say the sun is getting hotter, and that's what causing climate change?

Scientists.

[soon]

8 minutes ago, action said:

The result of her actions is, the environmental movement is slowly becoming the laughing stock, and detractors find an easy target with greta.

Nope. Only her detractors* are a laughing stock.

 

*read: online bullies of a teenaged girl 

10 minutes ago, action said:

who should have been a better person to lead the environmental cause?

She is not the leader of THE environmental cause. She is the leader of a youth movement that is leveraging its power to achieve important ends. That bloc intersects with other blocs in the international movement and has gained many allies and adult supporters.

She doesnt want to be your leader, she wants to completely circumvent erring olds like yourself  

[action]

13 minutes ago, soon said:

Scientists.

my genuine advice to your lot is, thank greta for all the efforts made, and put one of them scientists on her seat. the messenger is equally as important as the message.

my dad always told me "son, with messages and opinions, the first thing you should do is looking who communicates the message, before looking into what was said."

I don't think greta is doing a particularily great job to convince those who need convincing. She comes across as too moralizing, almost offensive. People notice her because she is a kid, but that speech of her where she proclaimed "how dare you" is just cringe throughout. You may think "wow look at her badassery, she told them good", but from where I'm sitting that speech did so much damage, with the contradictions, baseless accusations, and holes in her rationale. I think many people discarded her from that moment on. Her message was all emotion, and  it was offending a whole lot of people in stead of getting people behind her cause. Bloody hell, that's no way to make people change their whole lifestyle. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by action

[soon]

1 minute ago, action said:

my genuine advice to your lot is, thank greta for all the efforts made, and put one of them scientists on her seat. the messenger is equally as important as the message.

I don't think greta is doing a particularily great job to convince those who need convincing. She comes across as too moralizing, almost offensive. People notice her because she is a kid, but that speech of her where she proclaimed "how dare you" is just cringe throughout. You may think "wow look at her badassery, she told them good", but from where I'm sitting that speech did so much damage, with the contradictions, baseless accusations, and holes in her rationale. I think many people discarded her from that moment on. Her message was all emotion, and  it was offending a whole lot of people in stead of getting people behind her cause. Bloody hell, that's no way to make people change their whole lifestyle. 

The scientists have spoken. https://www.ipcc.ch/