The Bon Jovi Distaster

[The Dissident]

I will say his voice has had years at a time where it was basically gone then came back, what he needs is to listen to a bloody vocal coach. I believe he quit smoking which should have helped... I just wish he would vary the setlist up with more deep tracks from Slippery through These Days, but I feel those days are gone with Ritchie

[EvanG]

31 minutes ago, The Dissident said:

what he needs is to listen to a bloody vocal coach. 

Who says he doesn't? He always struck me as a very professional guy, like Jagger, half businessman / half rock star. I bet he is doing everything he can in order to sound as good as possible. But once your voice starts going there isn't that much you can do.

[BadApples99]

He is well aware of the fact that his voice isn't what it used to be. 

Lyrics from God Bless This Mess from This House Is Not For Sale:

"My voice is shot I'm going grey, these muscles all ache"

[moreblack]

On 3/24/2017 at 11:56 AM, maynard said:

They both sound really bad. This JBJ performance doesn't erase the fact Axl sounds like shit in GNR.

I don't see how it makes a difference to one another. Other than Axl fans pointing and going "see, that guy's worse"

[Majestic Beast]

For me,when sambora left the band,i lost completely interest,Jon has voice issues for years,he can't hit high notes and trying to hide with tricks.

[action]

bon jovi is unrightfully being judged by the hard rock community.

I remember when this song was a thing:

 

released in the early 2000s, and it's an absolutely crushing song that has it all.

What have guns n roses released since 2000 with equal punch? Nothing but self indulgent overproduced drivel.

"it's my life" is a total classic and one I actually love putting on from time to time

[Towelie]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:06 PM, action said:

bon jovi is unrightfully being judged by the hard rock community.

I remember when this song was a thing:

 

released in the early 2000s, and it's an absolutely crushing song that has it all.

What have guns n roses released since 2000 with equal punch? Nothing but self indulgent overproduced drivel.

"it's my life" is a total classic and one I actually love putting on from time to time

The day GNR resort to using Britney Spears's songwriter to get a hit, I will burn my fancard there and then.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Towelie

[downzy]

53 minutes ago, Towelie said:

The day GNR resort to using Britney Spears's songwriter to get a hit, I will burn my fancard there and then.

It's a good call.  Once you depend on others to write hits you're less of an artist and more of a performer.  There's nothing wrong with being a performer.  But they're not the same as artists in the same vein as Lennon, McCartney, Richards, Plant, Elton John, Billy Joel, etc.  

[action]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

It's a good call.  Once you depend on others to write hits you're less of an artist and more of a performer.  There's nothing wrong with being a performer.  But they're not the same as artists in the same vein as Lennon, McCartney, Richards, Plant, Elton John, Billy Joel, etc.  

elvis and sinatra sinatra would have a word with you

there is more to being a talent / an artist than being a songwriter. Bob dylan is one of the best songwriters ever yet I find his voice incredibly boring. Elvis could wow a whole crowd with just one note

Edited June 27, 2019 by action

[downzy]

Just now, action said:

elvis and sinatra sinatra would have a word with you

there is more to being a talent / an artist than being a songwriter. Bob dylan is one of the best songwriters ever yet I find his voice incredibly boring. Elvis could wow a whole crowd with just one note

I'm saying they should be evaluated on a different basis.  

Like I said, if you don't write your own material, in my opinion, you're more of a performer.  

You're not really creating anything unless you're coming up with your own choreography.  

Painters, writers, songwriters, dancers, to some extent photographers are all creating something.  People who simply sing the words and melodies they are given to them are undoubtedly talented in areas, but not really in creation.

[EvanG]

On 27-6-2019 at 7:20 PM, Towelie said:

The day GNR resort to using Britney Spears's songwriter to get a hit, I will burn my fancard there and then.

When you look at the UYI songcredits you will see that there were people contributing from outside the band for GnR too, so I don't see any difference in working with a professional songwriter, whether or not they write songs for teen popstars and/or a rock band shouldn't matter.

[Towelie]

4 minutes ago, EvanG said:

When you look at the UYI songcredits you will see that there were people contributing from outside the band for GnR too, so I don't see any difference in working with a professional songwriter, whether or not they write songs for teen popstars and/or a rock band shouldn't matter.

I dunno, it feels different. Writing a song with your mate is kind of different than enlisting the help of a professional songwriter. Bands like 00s Bon Jovi and post-80s Aerosmith just seem so corporate.

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I dunno, it feels different. Writing a song with your mate is kind of different than enlisting the help of a professional songwriter. Bands like 00s Bon Jovi and post-80s Aerosmith just seem so corporate.

I feel the same way, whenever I found out some band got help from a professional writer it felt like a let-down to me. But when I'm trying to think rationally about it, is it such a big deal? If someone can help you make your song even better, then isn't the end result what matters? In the case of Aerosmith, I liked them more before they started working with professional songwriters, but that's totally subjective.

[Towelie]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I feel the same way, whenever I found out some band got help from a professional writer it felt like a let-down to me. But when I'm trying to think rationally about it, is it such a big deal? If someone can help you make your song even better, then isn't the end result what matters? In the case of Aerosmith, I liked them more before they started working with professional songwriters, but that's totally subjective.

But are guys like Max Martin helping to "make the song even better" or are they handing over something they started from scratch? I have a feeling it's the latter. I suspect "It's My Life" was primarily a Max Martin creation, with Jon and Ritchie adding a few embellishments and getting a songwriting credit in the process. 

Often times bands/artists will receieve a co-songwriting credit for a song penned by a professional songwriter merely for choosing to record the song. 

[EvanG]

19 minutes ago, Towelie said:

But are guys like Max Martin helping to "make the song even better" or are they handing over something they started from scratch? I have a feeling it's the latter. I suspect "It's My Life" was primarily a Max Martin creation, with Jon and Ritchie adding a few embellishments and getting a songwriting credit in the process. 

Often times bands/artists will receieve a co-songwriting credit for a song penned by a professional songwriter merely for choosing to record the song. 

I don't know, I'm sure every situation is different. I would think that in the case of Aerosmith and Bon Jovi they (Jon/Richie and Steven/Joe) are the primary songwriters and then you have someone coming in during the writing session and helping out, adding something here or there, changing a melody line or adding a bridge, or whatever. I once saw a short docu on Desmond Child and he talked about how he came in while Steven and Joe were writing ''Dude (Looks Like a Lady)'' and he helped finishing the song. In the case of Bon Jovi, on the early records they only had a couple of songs that were co-written by someone outside of the band, most of the songs were written by either Jon or Jon and Richie so it's not like they couldn't do it on their own.

Edited July 3, 2019 by EvanG

[Towelie]

14 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't know, I'm sure every situation is different. I would think that in the case of Aerosmith and Bon Jovi they (Jon/Richie and Steven/Joe) are the primary songwriters and then you have someone coming in during the writing session and helping out, adding something here or there, changing a melody line or adding a bridge, or whatever. I once saw a short docu on Desmond Child and he talked about how he came in while Steven and Joe were writing ''Dude (Looks Like a Lady)'' and he helped finishing the song. In the case of Bon Jovi, on the early records they only had a couple of songs that were co-written by someone outside of the band, most of the songs were written by either Jon or Jon and Richie so it's not like they couldn't do it on their own.

I dunno man, I guess I'm more cynical than you.

Usually if I see a song written by an artist with a bunch of other songwriters, I tend to assume it's one of those write-a-word-take-a-third scenarios.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Towelie

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Towelie said:

I dunno man, I guess I'm more cynical than you.

Usually if I see a song written by an artist with a bunch of other songwriters, I tend to assume it's one of those write-a-word-take-a-third scenarios.

Sure, when Britney Spears or some other pop star is credited I would think the same way, but in the case of the two bands we mentioned, I would like to think they had a lot to do with it because they have written plenty of songs on their own that are just as good. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't imagine those bands recording songs from some hit factory in which they hardly had any input but still taking credit for it.

[God of Thunder]

I saw Bon Jovi last night, as tickets were rather cheap. Stadium was full and people did have a good time as they were singing louder than the singer. But boy oh boy is Jon Bon Jovi`s voice dead. Completely out of sync, incomprehensible at times, severe problems of hitting any notes at all and most of all he was only singing roughly about half the lines. It looked most of the times as he was really suffering by singing. As soon as he had to raise his voice a little, the mix just tuned him off completely and the band members had to sing for him. The band itself was great, Tico was on fire, David saved the biggest embarassement for Jon by propably singing as much as Jon and Phil X is a great guitar player. However the whole show rather had the character of a karaoke show for the audience and David. At times I had the feeling Jon was so off, that the band actually slowed down the songs for him. I almost  felt sorry for him (almost, but the combination of worse than KISS advertising for Jon Bon Jovi crafted denim wear, the Jon Bon Jovi Cruise  (3 nights 2500 USD per person) and the official BonGiovi tomato sauce and his self celebration by wearing a jacket that said LEGEND at the end of his singing misery kind of prevented me from feeling too sorry) .

Axl Rose on his worst night (such as Abu Dhabi last year) was still about 10 times as good. Even in bad shows he never had to rely on the singing capabilities of his band, he always had "some voice" left. So if a decent band like Bon Jovi  without the original lead guitar player can sell out stadiums with a charismatic singer who can`t sing anymore, I have absolutely no doubt that Guns will be able to tour big time for the next 10 years at least.

[RussTCB]

26 minutes ago, God of Thunder said:

I saw Bon Jovi last night, as tickets were rather cheap. Stadium was full and people did have a good time as they were singing louder than the singer. But boy oh boy is Jon Bon Jovi`s voice dead. Completely out of sync, incomprehensible at times, severe problems of hitting any notes at all and most of all he was only singing roughly about half the lines. It looked most of the times as he was really suffering by singing. As soon as he had to raise his voice a little, the mix just tuned him off completely and the band members had to sing for him. The band itself was great, Tico was on fire, David saved the biggest embarassement for Jon by propably singing as much as Jon and Phil X is a great guitar player. However the whole show rather had the character of a karaoke show for the audience and David. At times I had the feeling Jon was so off, that the band actually slowed down the songs for him. I almost  felt sorry for him (almost, but the combination of worse than KISS advertising for Jon Bon Jovi crafted denim wear, the Jon Bon Jovi Cruise  (3 nights 2500 USD per person) and the official BonGiovi tomato sauce and his self celebration by wearing a jacket that said LEGEND at the end of his singing misery kind of prevented me from feeling too sorry) .

Axl Rose on his worst night (such as Abu Dhabi last year) was still about 10 times as good. Even in bad shows he never had to rely on the singing capabilities of his band, he always had "some voice" left. So if a decent band like Bon Jovi  without the original lead guitar player can sell out stadiums with a charismatic singer who can`t sing anymore, I have absolutely no doubt that Guns will be able to tour big time for the next 10 years at least.

I merged your post with a topic already going about Jon's voice. 

[LovelessNL]

Oh man, saw this last sunday at TW Classic festival in Belgium. 55k people, and a bunch of them started leaving 2-3 songs into set. They started 15 mins late and stopped 15 mins before they should. Cut the set by 2 or 3 songs I think. I even left 3 songs before the end, just couldnt stand it anymore. I've seen a LOT of bands and shows, and I've seen a lot of crappy shows, but this goes straight into the top 3. It was just horrible, cant really say anything nice about it. Some of the slower ballads were 'acceptable', but the faster songs and especially where he needs to sing higher was just terrible. Out of tune, timing sucked, basically everyone who was singing backing vocals sounded better than Jon. As a result they kinda screwed up the mix so they could turn him down as much as possible.

I think he was also struggling with throat infection/ache as he was wearing a scarf and kept on closing his jacket for the first half of the set. But yeah, horrible. That and the shameless plugging of jeans, pastasauces and JBJ cruises spoiled this whole band for me.

This about sums it up: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz7dKlJg2ms/

[God of Thunder]

On 16.7.2019 at 12:47 PM, LovelessNL said:

 

This about sums it up: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz7dKlJg2ms/

LOL that is actually still one of the better songs  His voice is dead; I don`t even know how he is not ashamed of performing in this state.

[AxlRoseCDII]

JBJ bums me out. Age is inevitable and singers like him and Axl are a constant reminder of that.

That being said I didn’t think this was terrible, but I’m guessing it’s been tinkered with?

 

[Sydney Fan]

4 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

JBJ bums me out. Age is inevitable and singers like him and Axl are a constant reminder of that.

That being said I didn’t think this was terrible, but I’m guessing it’s been tinkered with?

 

Sounds like hes singing abit  slower. But he certainly doesnt have any power in his vocal delivery anymore. I think when it gets to this stage, where you just cant do the songs justice how they should be done either  hang it up or maybe change the setlist alot. 

[AxlRoseCDII]

12 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Sounds like hes singing abit  slower. But he certainly doesnt have any power in his vocal delivery anymore. I think when it gets to this stage, where you just cant do the songs justice how they should be done either  hang it up or maybe change the setlist alot. 

That’s the issue, they really can’t change the set too much because most only care about the hits. I’m not too well versed in the Bon Jovi discography but I know most of the hits are pretty hard to sing, especially in the original key. He should tune the songs down maybe 1-1.5 steps.

Its similar to Axl actually. We fans have suggested a set list of most of the songs he can sing well but they’d never consider it because a.) were a very small portion of the fan base and guns does their own thing anyway and b.) it doesn’t have most of the hits. Could you imagine in BJ did a show without Living on a Prayer or Guns did a show without Sweet Child? 

[Towelie]

56 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

That’s the issue, they really can’t change the set too much because most only care about the hits. I’m not too well versed in the Bon Jovi discography but I know most of the hits are pretty hard to sing, especially in the original key. He should tune the songs down maybe 1-1.5 steps.

Its similar to Axl actually. We fans have suggested a set list of most of the songs he can sing well but they’d never consider it because a.) were a very small portion of the fan base and guns does their own thing anyway and b.) it doesn’t have most of the hits. Could you imagine in BJ did a show without Living on a Prayer or Guns did a show without Sweet Child? 

That's missing the point. Pop artists do reimagined versions of their older hits all the time. What's stopping Axl/JBJ doing a stripped back acoustic version of SCOM/LOAP in a different key? Most of the audience probably wouldn't even know the key was different and it'd allow Axl/JBJ the opportunity to experiment with different arrangements and find a way of singing the crowd-pleasers without sounding toe-curlingly bad. But of course, that would take some effort on their part to actually try something different and break out of 25 years of autopilot.

Why the likes of Axl and Jon don't do this is beyond me. I would say that maybe they don't want to accept that they're not as good as they once were, but I have a hard time believing they're that far in denial. I think they've just done so many gigs and they see the crowd's going wild at even their most lackluster performances, it's allowed them to become complacent. If people stopped attending concerts when the singer repeatedly delivers substandard performances, then they'd be forced to make more effort. But as it stands, they're quite happy phoning it in and cashing their cheques, whilst shortchanging the fans with dreadful vocals year in, year out. 

It's quite amusing when you consider that one of the highest grossing tours of all time (NITL) was so bad they wouldn't even put a DVD out. People really will accept any old shit as long as they're there themselves to witness it and brag about it to their friends on Facebook.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Towelie