The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[Dazey]

I quite fancy Jenna Ellis. 😳

[-W.A.R-]

Kidnapping, assassination and a London shoot-out: Inside the CIA's secret war plans against WikiLeaks

This is insane stuff.

[Padme]

So... Liz Cheney regrets to have opposed gay marriage. 

Rep. Liz Cheney says ‘I was wrong’ to have opposed same-sex marriage before - The Washington Post

Edited September 27, 2021 by Padme

[downzy]

Shocking! 

North Dakota Governor Kristi Noam caught abusing her powers to ensure her daughter received the real estate license she was initially denied.  

When asked to comment, she doesn't deny it.  But instead attacks the media for focusing on her kids (btw, the "kid" in question is 27). 

https://apnews.com/article/business-discrimination-kristi-noem-south-dakota-age-discrimination-7942a78d5545205dff41a696ef9fc251

#draintheswamp

 

[downzy]

Who needs Trump's old tweets when we have these "winners?"

 

[Padme]

Axl really is into politics

[Padme]

[J Dog]

Biden approval rating dropping like it's hot. At this rate he will pass Trump and that's a hard thing to do.

Glad to see the couple of democrats push back on that outrageous 3.5 trillion bill. This is how business should be done, vote yes for stuff that is good and makes sense, vote no for stupid shit, instead of the whole rah rah team democrat boooo team republican bullshit (and vice versa). I hope this starts a trend but I doubt it, as long as crypt keeper Pelosi is around, she's all about that game.

[downzy]

4 hours ago, J Dog said:

Glad to see the couple of democrats push back on that outrageous 3.5 trillion bill.

The defence department “bill” that Congress authorizes every year is $7.5 trillion.

But for some reason there’s no money to fix a broken down country. Only money to protect it from a world that wants less and less to do with America. 

[downzy]

5 hours ago, J Dog said:

I hope this starts a trend but I doubt it, as long as crypt keeper Pelosi is around, she's all about that game.

Right. Pelosi is the problem…

[Jakey Styley]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

The defence department “bill” that Congress authorizes every year is $7.5 trillion.

But for some reason there’s no money to fix a broken down country. Only money to protect it from a world that wants less and less to do with America. 

Which bill are you referring to?

[downzy]

1 hour ago, Jakey Styley said:

Which bill are you referring to?

The $3.5 trillion over 10 years reconciliation bill.  

[Jakey Styley]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

The $3.5 trillion over 10 years reconciliation bill.  

I was asking about the 7.5 trillion defense department bill.

 

I think i see - you are multiplying the roughly 750billion in yearly defense spending by 10 to sum the amount of defense spending congress authorizes during the same period for defense?

Your wording made it sound like you were suggesting we authorize 7.5 trillion every year.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Jakey Styley

[Ace Nova]

4 hours ago, downzy said:

The defence department “bill” that Congress authorizes every year is $7.5 trillion.

But for some reason there’s no money to fix a broken down country. Only money to protect it from a world that wants less and less to do with America. 

I think you’re off by a few zeros. The defense department/military  budget is usually around 700- 750 billion per year…not quite 7.5 trillion.  

[downzy]

35 minutes ago, Jakey Styley said:

I was asking about the 7.5 trillion defense department bill.

 

I think i see - you are multiplying the roughly 750billion in yearly defense spending by 10 to sum the amount of defense spending congress authorizes during the same period for defense?

Your wording made it sound like you were suggesting we authorize 7.5 trillion every year.

Sorry, I get why my phrasing was confusing.

Just pointing out that when we talk about social spending or things that would improve and better the country, the ten year figure is thrown about.

But military spending isn't viewed as such.  Perhaps not a completely fair comparison since the defence bill gets passed every year whereas the reconciliation bill is a one time thing.  But it's not as though Congress is about to start giving the Pentagon less money.  

27 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

I think you’re off by a few zeros. The defense department/military  budget is usually around 700- 750 billion per year…not quite 7.5 trillion.  

Read again.  I was talking about a ten year time frame. 

$750 billion a year over ten years is $7.5 trillion, significantly more than the $3.5 trillion put forward by the reconciliation bill (since it's outlays are over a ten year basis, not one).  

[Ace Nova]

3 hours ago, downzy said:

Sorry, I get why my phrasing was confusing.

Just pointing out that when we talk about social spending or things that would improve and better the country, the ten year figure is thrown about.

But military spending isn't viewed as such.  Perhaps not a completely fair comparison since the defence bill gets passed every year whereas the reconciliation bill is a one time thing.  But it's not as though Congress is about to start giving the Pentagon less money.  

Read again.  I was talking about a ten year time frame. 

$750 billion a year over ten years is $7.5 trillion, significantly more than the $3.5 trillion put forward by the reconciliation bill (since it's outlays are over a ten year basis, not one).  

Right.  But you can’t really compare the two, can you?  (Not that it’s likely) but Congress could technically give the defense department 0 next year.  
 

Therefore, it’s still only 750 billion.  Congress would need to approve that amount every year for the next 10 years before reaching your 7.5 trillion figure vs approving it ONCE for Biden’s 3.5 trillion to be spent.  Pretty big difference, don’t you think? 

[downzy]

33 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Right.  But you can’t really compare the two, can you?  (Not that it’s likely) but Congress could technically give the defense department 0 next year.  
 

Therefore, it’s still only 750 billion.  Congress would need to approve that amount every year for the next 10 years before reaching your 7.5 trillion figure vs approving it ONCE for Biden’s 3.5 trillion to be spent.  Pretty big difference, don’t you think? 

Kind of semantic argument. When has the Defense Bill ever truly been debated or brought down?

My point still stands. America is and will pay at least $7.5 trillion to protect an increasingly broken country over the next ten years but not spend half that amount to try and fix what’s broken. 

[-W.A.R-]

41 minutes ago, downzy said:

Kind of semantic argument. When has the Defense Bill ever truly been debated or brought down?

Hell we're looking at an increase even with the war in Afghanistan being over.

[Ace Nova]

58 minutes ago, downzy said:

Kind of semantic argument. When has the Defense Bill ever truly been debated or brought down?

My point still stands. America is and will pay at least $7.5 trillion to protect an increasingly broken country over the next ten years but not spend half that amount to try and fix what’s broken. 

By that argument, I can say America will spend 35 trillion on social programs, since that’s the amount that could get approved THIS year and could conceivably get approved every year for the next 10 years.

 

 

 

[J Dog]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:05 AM, downzy said:

Right. Pelosi is the problem…

For sure, she's a huge problem. She's kinda the definition of career politician in love with power and damn the the enemy! even though we're on the same team.

You think just republicans are hypocritical? Just like how Biden voted not to raise the debt ceiling on 3 different occasions as a senator, but now he wants to raise it no matter what. We can literally do this all day, politics and hypocrisy/changing with the tide have gone hand in hand for a long time, on both sides. Both parties talk out both sides of their mouth.

[J Dog]

On 10/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, downzy said:

The defence department “bill” that Congress authorizes every year is $7.5 trillion.

But for some reason there’s no money to fix a broken down country. Only money to protect it from a world that wants less and less to do with America. 

We aren't broken down yet but damned if we won't be by 2024. Literally everything has been done badly.

 

Yeah we spend way too much on defense. But don't all the big nations? England, China, Russia, France etc. Freaking Australia just bought nuclear submarines from us. Nuclear submarines. And France got mad because they didn't get a cut. I guess my point is this seems to be a worldwide thing, not just a U.S thing.

 

I actually think if they would cut back the deal, I've heard 1 or 1.5 trillion get thrown out there, it would probably pass. But for all the good stuff in the deal there is just as much stupid shit.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by J Dog
can't spell!

[-W.A.R-]

7 hours ago, J Dog said:

Yeah we spend way too much on defense. But don't all the big nations? England, China, Russia, France etc.

Yeah and the US spends more than those combined!

As a side note we need to stop giving this obscene budget the "defense" connotation.

[downzy]

18 hours ago, J Dog said:

For sure, she's a huge problem. She's kinda the definition of career politician in love with power and damn the the enemy! even though we're on the same team.

How is she a "huge" problem? 

That's a declarative statement without any heft behind it. 

To say she's as bad as McConnell with respect to passing legislation above playing power politics is absurd. 

What has McConnell passed as the head of the Senate Republicans in the last 13 years?  One tax cut.  The Senate has been turned into a body that solely confirms justices under Republicans and McConnell's leadership. 

Simply pointing out to Pelosi's longevity as as a Congresswoman is an empty observation.  It does not invalidate that under her leadership as Speaker the Democrats were able to pass significant and marquee legislation.  No Republican since Newt Gingrich can say the same.

That isn't to say there are not things to criticize.  There are issues with Pelosi.  But she's been one of the more effective legislators the US has had in a long time in terms of getting broad-based legislation passed.

18 hours ago, J Dog said:

You think just republicans are hypocritical? Just like how Biden voted not to raise the debt ceiling on 3 different occasions as a senator, but now he wants to raise it no matter what

First, it was twice. 

Second, in both instances, Biden expressed how it was a symbolic vote in light a) the debt ceiling was going to be raised regardless; b) the votes were a response to Republicans taking massive surpluses of the Clinton era and turning them into deficits under Bush's tenure as President. 

This is the problem with this bad-faith line of arguments.  You don't consider the context.  Biden wasn't calling for everyone to vote against raising the debt ceiling.  He wasn't asking fellow Democrats to fall in line with him and sink the economy the spite Republicans and Bush.  He wasn't even the leader of the Democrats in the house.  But none of these points matter to you.  What was a symbolic vote under certain circumstances should be considered and compared to what Republicans are doing today, not matter how myopically wooden that comparison is.

18 hours ago, J Dog said:

Yeah we spend way too much on defense. But don't all the big nations? England, China, Russia, France etc. Freaking Australia just bought nuclear submarines from us. Nuclear submarines

The US spends more on its military than the next nine countries combined spend on theirs.

Understand what the US military actually is at this point: a make-works project that serves the constituents of many sun-belt states.  It has more to do with the economic livelihood of certain districts and states than it does with protecting the homeland.  Nobody is going to invade the US.  Too many nuclear weapons, too big.  How America fails is with a threat from within, not from other nations.  But its current spending priorities are so out of whack that it's being hollowed out despite the insane money spent on its real and symbolic fortress.

18 hours ago, J Dog said:

But for all the good stuff in the deal there is just as much stupid shit.

Like what?

[downzy]

A good thread on the insanity that is the GOP’s history and posture on debt, deficits, budgets, and interest rates:

The day Republicans force America to default on its debt is the day the rest of the world tells America to go fuck itself and works out a new monetary system that inoculates itself from the insanity that is America’s inability to govern itself.

Part of this is on Democrats too.  They should repeal the debt ceiling. Or at the very least they should eliminate the filibuster with respect to raising the debt ceiling.  

[Dazey]

9 hours ago, downzy said:

A good thread on the insanity that is the GOP’s history and posture on debt, deficits, budgets, and interest rates:

The day Republicans force America to default on its debt is the day the rest of the world tells America to go fuck itself and works out a new monetary system that inoculates itself from the insanity that is America’s inability to govern itself.

Part of this is on Democrats too.  They should repeal the debt ceiling. Or at the very least they should eliminate the filibuster with respect to raising the debt ceiling.  

When Trump wins in 2024 we should all find a new planet to live on.