The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[Twinaleblood]

34 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I believe CD has been out of print for a while, at least in the US. I usually pick up used copies when I find them locally (some are still sealed, Best Buy sticker included) to give away to friends/family. 

Here in Italy the cd is still in print and easily purchasable as a mid-price. Vinyl, on the other hand, has been out of print for a few years now and I'm happy I could grab a copy (of the European edition, which sounds very good. I read that the US version has horrible groove distortion) before the prices skyrocketed.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Twinaleblood

[Sweersa]

11 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

Here in Italy the cd is still in print and easily purchasable as a mid-price. Vinyl, on the other hand, has been out of print for a few years now and I'm happy I could grab a copy (of the European edition, which sounds very good. I read that the US version has horrible groove distortion) before the prices skyrocketed.

I have the US version of the vinyl, and it is awful quality! I've considered selling it, and using the money towards the superior EU pressing.

[Twinaleblood]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

I have the US version of the vinyl, and it is awful quality! I've considered selling it, and using the money towards the superior EU pressing.

I think that would be a wise choice. I confirm my copy sounds absolutely good.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Many bands stop releasing new music and just continue touring (if they have the audiences) or break up. There is nothing dramatic about this, it is quite common.

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The fanbase, on the other hand, definitely need someone to put things in perspective when it is starting to unravel at the seems over something as trivial as a band that doesn't release much music.

On the one hand, I completely agree with you: anyone expecting Guns N' Roses to release new music is likely to be wildly disappointed and would probably be better off just considering the band a touring-only entity, even if they've never explicitly said that. 

I guess I'm just confused at the shift in tone between when the hype is building and when the inevitable let down occurs. When this forum is excited and certain that new music is coming, and everybody's writing to Spotify customer support about their algorithm, and we're talking about The General and Seven and Thyme as if they're things we can accurately evaluate, that's when I grouch like myself usually pours cold water on the whole thing and tells everyone it ain't happening. Hell, in a prior thread about Perhaps, I showed some frustration at those who were complaining that it wasn't released yet and said 'Jesus Christ...' and almost uniformly I was met with "stop being so negative - just let us be excited!" 

Then, when a single doesn't drop the day everyone expects it to, it's "well you should never be excited. This band doesn't release much new music." I'm having a hard time reconciling the two positions. It's okay to buy into the hype...but not to be disappointed by it?

I also agree that there are many bands who simply stop creating while continuing to tour. Billy Joel is the example I've used a thousand times as being the case most similar to Axl in my opinion: he loves performing but is very open about the fact that he doesn't want to write songs anymore. I don't begrudge him that, and I don't begrudge Axl that, if that's how he feels.

But, just as there are plenty of artists who have quit touring, there are plenty of bands on Guns N' Roses' level, age group, and older who are still at it and producing new material: Metallica, U2, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, Green Day, The Foo Fighters, Bon Jovi, even older bands like AC/DC, Bruce Springsteen, Iron Maiden, and even The Rolling Stones have been far more prolific than Guns N' Roses have in the span since Chinese Democracy.

But, of course - those bands aren't Guns N' Roses and so it's irrelevant, right? I'd say so. But I'd also say that the bands that simply stopped producing material aren't Guns N' Roses and so the fact that 'a lot of bands stop releasing new music' is equally as irrelevant.

The fact is that this band has captured our fascination for a few reasons:

1.) The songs they *have* written and released are, frankly, great. Even the Chinese Democracy songs, while not up to the standard of their prior work, are still damn good. This is a good rock band.

2.) The mythology around Chinese Democracy is not something that's common in rock n' roll at all. The only other two albums that come close to holding that amount of mystery are The Beach Boys' Smile and Dr. Dre's Detox, and I'd argue that Chinese Democracy was more mythical than either of those. And it's not just the album that was released - it was all the sessions and unreleased material as well. After all, it took some 15 years to release. And it's not something that was completely media driven - Axl himself, and many other major players involved in the recording, contributed to the myth. Suddenly there were *two* or *three* albums of material ready to go. The song you've borrowed your online handle from has been described as one of the 'meanest' things he's ever sang - by Axl himself! Why would fans *not* want to hear that?

3.) Slash and Duff rejoining the band is something no one thought would ever happen - hence the 'not in this lifetime' joke. With their rejoining, it's only human nature to expect that the team that was able to write so many classic songs would simply...want to continue doing so. And, by the way, Slash has specifically said that there is new music on the way. And I understand that there will, eventually, be Perhaps and maybe even another single after it. But all that does is show that the band *does* intend to release something...it's just obviously disappointing to the fanbase how they choose to do so.

And isn't that what a message board is for? To discuss these things? It's no different than the setlist. I could easily say "stop complaining about the setlist - they're obviously doing just fine with it!" But we're not talking about their financial prospects. Everyone is talking about their personal level of satisfaction with the band's output. No one's unraveling, we're just voicing our discontent. Which, again, seems to annoy some people for some reason when it's done in certain ways. 

It's just...frustrating.

3 hours ago, DingBat said:

An emoji is abuse is it?

You're a very sensitive soul aren't you?

Get yourself a hot cup of cocoa and run yourself a warm bath.

Oh chill out, dude. You haven't contributed at all to any conversation. You came out of the gate swinging and now you're still picking a fight. Get on topic.

[2020_Intensions]

9 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

 

2.) The mythology around Chinese Democracy is not something that's common in rock n' roll at all. The only other two albums that come close to holding that amount of mystery are The Beach Boys' Smile and Dr. Dre's Detox, and I'd argue that Chinese Democracy was more mythical than either of those. And it's not just the album that was released - it was all the sessions and unreleased material as well. After all, it took some 15 years to release. And it's not something that was completely media driven - Axl himself, and many other major players involved in the recording, contributed to the myth. Suddenly there were *two* or *three* albums of material ready to go. The song you've borrowed your online handle from has been described as one of the 'meanest' things he's ever sang - by Axl himself! Why would fans *not* want to hear that?

 

Just to be clear, because I see this kind of assertion repeated all of the time, Chinese Democracy did not take 15 years to be released. 15 years is the time between Spaghetti and Chinese. The recording of Chinese did not begin until 1998. So it took 10 years to release. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

7 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

Now add in all the lawsuits, and the Dr pepper mess, and the best buy mess and not knowing how to promote it and the alt covers not coming out and all the headaches and that Axl had to deal with for that album.  

This is a problem of Axl's own making. The label said they tried to get him to promote the album, and he wouldn't take their calls. 

Likely because he was angry that they force released the album. Why did they force release it? Because it took 15 years and they were tired of it! I can't fault them for that. I just can't put aside my bullshit detector for this one. Hell, the Dr. Pepper "mess" was the fault of his own lawyers. Axl himself said it was a non-issue. The Best Buy deal was actually far more profitable for him than it would have been otherwise! Best Buy took a loss on that one, not Axl! They were selling the album on *clearance* before long because, by 2008, no one cared.

7 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

I'm not saying it's exclusively the label, but look how many producers he went thru and musicians and everything too.  I think he just got fed up with everything. 

Yeah...but again, doesn't that point to Axl? At a certain point, if everyone he came into contact with was the problem...don't you think that maybe he was the problem? All those musicians and producers were incompetent?

Axl getting 'fed up' is rich - I'm sure there were more than a few folks fed up with him. I can only imagine jamming for hours in a rehearsal space, coming up with riffs and song structures for a guy who rarely showed up and, when he did, never sang. Though I'm sure the paycheck made it easier to deal with.

7 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

And then when the album finally did come out it wasn't received very well. Critically it did ok, and it did sell over 2 mil which really isn't bad, but it didn't debut at #1.  It definitely did not get the reception Axl was hoping for.

 

So idk if he just wonders what's the point anymore?  Or he doesn't want to go thru that process again. Or it's just a case of him taking his ball and going home.  Idk.

 

But I think if he still wanted to be making albums he would be 

Now *this* is where I agree with you. I actually think the tepid reaction to Chinese Democracy really killed a lot of his drive. If Chinese Democracy came out and was hailed as a success, I have no doubt that the two follow up albums would have already been released, if not even more 'newer' material.

I think the fact that he spent 15 years on an album and the world went 'meh' was probably the most devastating blow of all. After all, this is a guy who says he mainly listens to movie scores these days, right? I'm sure he'd rather be doing something like that. 

So I get why he *doesn't* want to create. I just refuse to feel sorry for him for how Chinese Democracy went down.

Just now, 2020_Intensions said:

Just to be clear, because I see this kind of assertion repeated all of the time, Chinese Democracy did not take 15 years to be released. 15 years is the time between Spaghetti and Chinese. The recording of Chinese did not begin until 1998. So it took 10 years to release. 

Fair enough - though early sessions with Slash and Duff and Tobias began in the mid-90s, no? So wouldn't it be 13 years?

And still - 10 years of mystery is an awful long time.

[Coma16]

I wonder if Curley Shuffle will be on the next album 

[2020_Intensions]

1 minute ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Fair enough - though early sessions with Slash and Duff and Tobias began in the mid-90s, no? So wouldn't it be 13 years?

They were not Chinese sessions though. The sessions that produced the material that would become Chinese Democracy began in '98 with the first Chinese lineup (Rose, Stinson, Freese, Finck, Tobias, Reed, Pitman).

[rocknroll41]

I recently recalled an interview from 1995 where Slash said something to the effect of “after this Snakepit tour is done, GnR will regroup and do another tour, and then there will be another Snakepit album at some point after that.”

Seemed to me like, even back then, they were already considering the idea of GnR just being a nostalgia touring act going forward, and allow the members to continue expressing themselves creatively thru their side projects instead.

Obviously, that plan changed, as Axl pulled the plug on further Snakepit touring in 1996 so that GnR could regroup for a new album (and look how that turned out). But the fact that the “GnR is just an oldies touring band now” route was seemingly on the table in 1995 is interesting. When you think about it in those terms, it’s actually not all that surprising that we’ve gotten so little new material since.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

8 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

They were not Chinese sessions though. The sessions that produced the material that would become Chinese Democracy began in '98 with the first Chinese lineup (Rose, Stinson, Freese, Finck, Tobias, Reed, Pitman).

I hear you, understood. Though to me, it's a little bit of splitting hairs at this point. Guns N' Roses in some way, shape, or form, has been working on the follow up to the Use Your Illusion albums since the mid-90s.

Edited to add: And if we don't look at it that way, I bet the record company sure does - they were funding those early sessions.

7 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

I recently recalled an interview from 1995 where Slash said something to the effect of “after this Snakepit tour is done, GnR will regroup and do another tour, and then there will be another Snakepit album at some point after that.”

Seemed to me like, even back then, they were already considering the idea of GnR just being a nostalgia touring act going forward, and allow the members to continue expressing themselves creatively thru their side projects instead.

Obviously, that plan changed, as Axl pulled the plug on further Snakepit touring in 1996 so that GnR could regroup for a new album (and look how that turned out). But the fact that the “GnR is just an oldies touring band now” route was seemingly on the table in 1995 is interesting. When you think about it in those terms, it’s actually not all that surprising that we’ve gotten so little new material since.

I think it's important to note that Slash was pretty pissed and disgusted by that point in time. He might have seen it that way, but I guarantee you Axl didn't. I think that was just Slash's anger talking.

Edited August 11, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK

[2020_Intensions]

Just now, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I hear you, understood. Though to me, it's a little bit of splitting hairs at this point. Guns N' Roses in some way, shape, or form, has been working on the follow up to the Use Your Illusion albums since the mid-90s.

Oh yeah sure. But you also have to acknowledge that the band that released the follow up was an entirely different band then the one that released UYI. Just for accuracy's sake, it's not fair to claim Chinese took 15 years, when it only took 10. What you should say is Axl took 15 years lol 

10 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

I recently recalled an interview from 1995 where Slash said something to the effect of “after this Snakepit tour is done, GnR will regroup and do another tour, and then there will be another Snakepit album at some point after that.”

Seemed to me like, even back then, they were already considering the idea of GnR just being a nostalgia touring act going forward, and allow the members to continue expressing themselves creatively thru their side projects instead.

Obviously, that plan changed, as Axl pulled the plug on further Snakepit touring in 1996 so that GnR could regroup for a new album (and look how that turned out). But the fact that the “GnR is just an oldies touring band now” route was seemingly on the table in 1995 is interesting. When you think about it in those terms, it’s actually not all that surprising that we’ve gotten so little new material since.

Even with a new album "right around the corner" they were an oldies touring band for the 2002 world tour lol 

[SoulMonster]

43 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Then, when a single doesn't drop the day everyone expects it to, it's "well you should never be excited. This band doesn't release much new music." I'm having a hard time reconciling the two positions. It's okay to buy into the hype...but not to be disappointed by it?

If you can't help but feel let down when things don't go as expected then you should avoid getting excited to begin with. I think I am able to feel some excitement but still kind of keep it in check because I know deep inside that it will most likely not happen. Thus I am saved feeling disappointed yet I don't get to feel the highs from expecting something. I do get happy when things happen, though. I just don't get to feel much excitement before it happens.

But even if you take my position, which is basically to never expect something, you still don't have to be a downer and rain on other's parade (not talking about you, just in general). I mean, it is one thing to kind of kindly help to adjust expectations somewhat to prevent people from being too disappointed, and to ridicule or mock those who believe. 

But yeah, it is s fine line to walk if you want to be a reasonably content GN'R fan.

[Bitchisback]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

This is a problem of Axl's own making. The label said they tried to get him to promote the album, and he wouldn't take their calls. 

Likely because he was angry that they force released the album. Why did they force release it? Because it took 15 years and they were tired of it! I can't fault them for that. I just can't put aside my bullshit detector for this one. Hell, the Dr. Pepper "mess" was the fault of his own lawyers. Axl himself said it was a non-issue. The Best Buy deal was actually far more profitable for him than it would have been otherwise! Best Buy took a loss on that one, not Axl! They were selling the album on *clearance* before long because, by 2008, no one cared.

Yeah...but again, doesn't that point to Axl? At a certain point, if everyone he came into contact with was the problem...don't you think that maybe he was the problem? All those musicians and producers were incompetent?

Axl getting 'fed up' is rich - I'm sure there were more than a few folks fed up with him. I can only imagine jamming for hours in a rehearsal space, coming up with riffs and song structures for a guy who rarely showed up and, when he did, never sang. Though I'm sure the paycheck made it easier to deal with.

Now *this* is where I agree with you. I actually think the tepid reaction to Chinese Democracy really killed a lot of his drive. If Chinese Democracy came out and was hailed as a success, I have no doubt that the two follow up albums would have already been released, if not even more 'newer' material.

I think the fact that he spent 15 years on an album and the world went 'meh' was probably the most devastating blow of all. After all, this is a guy who says he mainly listens to movie scores these days, right? I'm sure he'd rather be doing something like that. 

So I get why he *doesn't* want to create. I just refuse to feel sorry for him for how Chinese Democracy went down.

Fair enough - though early sessions with Slash and Duff and Tobias began in the mid-90s, no? So wouldn't it be 13 years?

And still - 10 years of mystery is an awful long time.

I'm not saying Axl didn't have his own set of issues. I'm just saying the whole experience sounded awful and draining and I can certainly understand why he wouldn't want to go through that again.  I think he has just found peace in his life and that's a lot more important to him than releasing a new song.

[UYI4]

Chinese rules, the left over rules.  Let’s take that out of the equation theoretically.

Hypothetically Summer 2024 Axl slash Duff Izzy and Steven decide to do a new final GNR album.  Would it be good? Eh IMO par. Why do I say that? Because slash in his own right has not really written any memorable leads since Illusions/OG GNR.  Slash is my fav of all time, but realistically the closest he came in recent years was Anastasia, and that lead is a play on a Mozart song really. 

Goes back to they don’t need to release shit.  I actually love it all. But their days of being modernly popular like we once knew are long dead.  Chinese we all enjoy because 3 genres came and went during the making of.  So it was fresh.  Had that album and another album came out 95-01 I believe they would have been massive with GNR2.0.  General, soul, perhaps, atlas, Oklahoma, curly shuffle, state of, d tune, are the only ones I’d like to hear updated and released.  Then I’d like to hear a full newly written album.  My guess is if there is ever an actual new album it will be a blend of left overs and a few newly written songs. All Big IFs.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

23 minutes ago, UYI4 said:

Hypothetically Summer 2024 Axl slash Duff Izzy and Steven decide to do a new final GNR album.  Would it be good? Eh IMO par. Why do I say that? Because slash in his own right has not really written any memorable leads since Illusions/OG GNR.  Slash is my fav of all time, but realistically the closest he came in recent years was Anastasia, and that lead is a play on a Mozart song really. 

You can look at it the other way around. They could release the greatest album they've ever written, but the majority of people would say it's average because in their minds, Appetite is the only option for 'Best Guns Album.' For some reason we as a society have decided that it's impossible for artists to release their best work later in life, which is a shame. 

Slash is a good example - you say he hasn't written any memorable leads since Anastasia. I don't like Myles Kennedy, so I haven't listened to any of Slash's recent work, but his *live* work is thrilling to me, even today. A lot of people complain about it, but I find it exhilarating.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[bumbleslash69]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

I wonder if Curley Shuffle will be on the next album 

Strangely enough, Curley Shuffle's appearance in the Universal vault video makes it one of the few songs that weren't on CD that have been acknowledged as existing by the label. Not that this is an official Universal video, but still pretty cool. 

[Appetitefordiscussion]

4 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I have the US version of the vinyl, and it is awful quality! I've considered selling it, and using the money towards the superior EU pressing.

I bought a copy on Vinyl last year for $70 off eBay. Best Buy sticker sealed and everything. Pissed that I opened it and played it because it’s a future collector item but I guess records are meant to be played. I noticed the tank in quality too. I kinda like it though. It sounds rougher and kinda reminds me of some of the demos in that way 

[rumandraisin]

32 minutes ago, bumbleslash69 said:

Strangely enough, Curley Shuffle's appearance in the Universal vault video makes it one of the few songs that weren't on CD that have been acknowledged as existing by the label. Not that this is an official Universal video, but still pretty cool. 

First time I've read that! So what's the deal here then, does this make Curly Shuffle older than we thought?

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

First time I've read that! So what's the deal here then, does this make Curly Shuffle older than we thought?

It has been posted in the General Musings thread, too. It's obviously an earlier version from the one in the locker discs. Basically earlier versions of most of these tracks logically exist, since they date from the time Sean Beavan was the producer.

[rumandraisin]

42 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It has been posted in the General Musings thread, too. It's obviously an earlier version from the one in the locker discs. Basically earlier versions of most of these tracks logically exist, since they date from the time Sean Beavan was the producer.

Interesting. So is there any idea how much earlier a version of it could be from. 

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

Interesting. So is there any idea how much earlier a version of it could be from. 

The date on the DAT tape in the video is May 11, 1999.

[rumandraisin]

23 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The date on the DAT tape in the video is May 11, 1999.

I'm salivating at the thought of tapes from early 99. Imagine a similar style locker discs leak from 98 to 99. Obviously no vocals, but it'd be great to hear what they had right at the start of the CD era. Or what I refer to as the start, i.e once Tommy and Josh were in place and proper sessions really begun in 98. 

[Sweersa]

24 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I'm salivating at the thought of tapes from early 99. Imagine a similar style locker discs leak from 98 to 99. Obviously no vocals, but it'd be great to hear what they had right at the start of the CD era. Or what I refer to as the start, i.e once Tommy and Josh were in place and proper sessions really begun in 98. 

I bet a handful or more of the songs would have vocals at that point. I don't believe the locker leaks to have been 100% of all of the material with vocals at that point, but surely they had a majority. 

[ChrisW]

4 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

10 years of mystery is an awful long time.

No one at Dr. Pepper woke up one day and decided to make an ad about some old band releasing an album.  Either Axl did it himself or (more likely) someone with authority to speak in his name, Geffen or Brazil.  They called Dr. Pepper and they worked out a way to promote an album that was ready to be released.

Best Buy was probably the same thing.  In theory, it might have been a scam, but Geffen (or whoever) wanted to try bringing back some of the money they'd spent and suckered Best Buy, but it was probably a private deal.  'You'll lose a lot of money here but make it up over there.'

And this is why Axl wanted to be in charge, so everyone else has to run around trying to do something for him.  He doesn't need to do anything.  The Chinese Democracy sessions didn't start in 1998, Axl's employees had been bringing in new music since 1994 and he rejected it.  It hadn't become the eventual "Chinese Democracy" album but that is when the sessions started.  Axl just had to keep replacing employees over and over until Geffen finally told him enough, the album was done.

Axl doesn't want to create music, he wants to give orders.  Other people sit around, recording over and over, they have no idea if anything will be done with their work and it's fully owned by Axl's company.  Notice that when Slash talks about working on a new album, he mentions how many songs they have and gives details on pre-production and production, but when he's talking about new G'n'R music, he had no details at all, not even how many tracks there are.  Like everyone else, he's an employee who is not permitted to say anything, and that's why there's no new music.  There's not even any more old music.

Since the news came out, I'd been checking their wikipedia page to see if "Perhaps" had been added to the list of releases, which other bands do.  The page never got changed.  Whoever's in charge is just seeing who will believe there's actually a new song coming out and who will still pay lots of money to hear "It's So Easy, so fuckin easy, It's so easy, so damn easy, It's so easy, so fuckin easy, It's so easy, yeah it's so easy, It's so easy, so fuckin easy..."

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

It has been posted in the General Musings thread, too. It's obviously an earlier version from the one in the locker discs. Basically earlier versions of most of these tracks logically exist, since they date from the time Sean Beavan was the producer.

I think we always talk and presume like we know mostly everything but truth is, it's highly likely there's a LOT we don't know...that just happened to be what Tom had at the time of what he was listening to from that studio in 2000....how many studios were involved in the making of Chinese? like 13?