Perhaps - New Guns N' Roses Single - Discussion

[Its Tino]

I think this is a nice time to review writing credits from CD (only including band members)

Dizzy -3

Tommy - 2

Huge - 4

Finck - 1

Shitman - 2

Reese - 1

Bucket - 3

Brain - 2

 

Now that we have that out of the way, my money is on Hard Skool being written by Huge and Axl. I’m thinking the same for Perhaps. 

[Blackstar]

5 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

Now that is plausible. My thinking was that they started working on something for the Jackie Chan movie in 1996 but anything Slash wrote was scrapped out of spite and they continued writing for the movie with the new lineup. The "Jackie Chan" name only continued because it was the same project, not the same song. That was my theory, but yours makes sense to me as well.

Hit the nail on the head. It's frustrating as a guitarist and Slash fanboy to see people insisting he wrote Hardskool in 1996. Songs built around chord progressions are how Axl and the CD lineup wrote songs, not Slash.

Working on a song to be used in a movie for three or four years would be rather implausible. But it seems that the song wasn't really intended for a movie anyway, but got that name because it was written when Axl was watching a Jackie Chan movie, so the movie was kind of the source of inspiration. Maybe Axl had told Duff and Matt that it had to do with a Jackie Chan movie and they misunderstood.

Slash's work and song ideas from 1994-1996 were scrapped, but more out of necessity than spite, since Axl decided to continue with other musicians that had a completely different style than Slash's, not blues based; plus potential legal issues, credits, etc. But, according to Marc Canter, at one point in 2000-2001 Axl was thinking of using some of the Slash originating material (three songs, one of which was Fall To Pieces) and having Slash play on it, on the condition that Slash would apologize. 

2 hours ago, Its Tino said:

I think this is a nice time to review writing credits from CD (only including band members)

Dizzy -3

Tommy - 2

Huge - 4

Finck - 1

Shitman - 2

Reese - 1

Bucket - 3

Brain - 2

 

Now that we have that out of the way, my money is on Hard Skool being written by Huge and Axl. I’m thinking the same for Perhaps. 

We have the writing credits for Hard Skool. It was written by Axl for the most part with small contributions from Paul Tobias, Finck, Stinson and Freese. Slash and Duff also have a writing credit for reworking it.

EDIT: See this post for more details about HS as well as about the exact credits on CD (as Voodoochild says in the comment below, Finck has writing credits for more songs.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Blackstar

[Voodoochild]

3 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

Hit the nail on the head. It's frustrating as a guitarist and Slash fanboy to see people insisting he wrote Hardskool in 1996. Songs built around chord progressions are how Axl and the CD lineup wrote songs, not Slash.

Yeah, CD era songs like It’s so Easy, My Michelle, You’re Crazy, Reckless Life, 14 years, Perfect Crime, Shadow of your Love..

1 hour ago, Its Tino said:

I think this is a nice time to review writing credits from CD (only including band members)

Dizzy -3

Tommy - 2

Huge - 4

Finck - 1

Shitman - 2

Reese - 1

Bucket - 3

Brain - 2

This is wrong. Robin got actual credits in a lot more than just Better.

[Jakey Styley]

1 hour ago, Its Tino said:

I think this is a nice time to review writing credits from CD (only including band members)

Dizzy -3

Tommy - 2

Huge - 4

Finck - 1

Shitman - 2

Reese - 1

Bucket - 3

Brain - 2

 

Now that we have that out of the way, my money is on Hard Skool being written by Huge and Axl. I’m thinking the same for Perhaps. 

Finck wrote on only one song? Never realized that

Edit: NVM just saw post above

Edited August 29, 2023 by Jakey Styley

[metalavenger99]

When you guys talk about how many credits "x" guy has are you referring to the names that appear under the songs?

(I'm reading it on the CD booklet page 16): https://www.scribd.com/document/136000368/Guns-N-Roses-2008-Chinese-Democracy-Digital-Booklet#

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, metalavenger99 said:

When you guys talk about how many credits "x" guy has are you referring to the names that appear under the songs?

(I'm reading it on the CD booklet page 16): https://www.scribd.com/document/136000368/Guns-N-Roses-2008-Chinese-Democracy-Digital-Booklet#

Yes, but there are also the credits that appear in databases like ASCAP, which report who gets royalties for writing a song. There are some differences between the two regarding CD.

See here for more details:

https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/224631-writing-credits-and-publishing-shares-for-gnr-songs/

 

[ZoSoRose]

9 hours ago, rudolf1978 said:

 

btw i listened to Hardskool again and slash work on it is really bad. if is it slash. Very simple everything

How is the guitar bad? There are like 3 mini solos that are textbook Slash and what he does with the slide for the main one is pretty cool

[metalavenger99]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, but there are also the credits that appear in databases like ASCAP, which report who gets royalties for writing a song. There are some differences between the two regarding CD.

See here for more details:

https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/224631-writing-credits-and-publishing-shares-for-gnr-songs/

 

Holy shit now that's interesting haha what a post!

[ThERoveR]

Perhaps on Spotify: 1,953,195 streams as of August 28. 

https://kworb.net/spotify/artist/3qm84nBOXUEQ2vnTfUTTFC_songs.html

[RONIN]

@BlackstarWasn't Fall to Pieces one of the final songs Slash demoed for Axl during the trial period in '96? I think he said in that '99 or 2000 rolling stone interview how as soon as he showed interest in a few of Slash's songs it was pulled from him. So presumably, Slash left the band with (some) of his material including FTP.

So the question is what 3 songs Axl would have wanted Slash on for the Sean Beavan album around 2000-2001. The old gnr-esque tracks from CD imho: Catcher in the Rye and This I Love. The Blues was also a more vintage GnR track.

As for the Jackie Chan song, Duff pretty clearly told Howard Stern that they were working on a song for an upcoming Jackie Chan movie. What could have been the movie in question? Jackie Chan's First Strike, Mr. Nice Guy, and Rush Hour fall within the time frame. Rush Hour would have been his first actual american release as First Strike and Mr. Nice Guy were hong kong films. I imagine the record company was just trying to get the band working again by giving them another movie soundtrack offer like Sympathy for the Devil. GnR's next release after Sympathy was another movie soundtrack with End of Days. It appears that the Jackie Chan offer fell through because they couldn't get it together. Then, "This I Love" was rejected for What Dreams May Come in '98. So I guess, there was some sporadic band activity even during '96-98.

Edited August 29, 2023 by RONIN

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, RONIN said:

@BlackstarWasn't Fall to Pieces one of the final songs Slash demoed for Axl during the trial period in '96? I think he said in that '99 or 2000 rolling stone interview how as soon as he showed interest in a few of Slash's songs it was pulled from him. So presumably, Slash left the band with (some) of his material including FTP.

So the question is what 3 songs Axl would have wanted Slash on for the Sean Beavan album around 2000-2001. The old gnr-esque tracks from CD imho: Catcher in the Rye and This I Love. The Blues was also a more vintage GnR track.

There's a bit on Fall To Pieces at the end of this chapter: 19. DECEMBER 1994-OCTOBER 1996: AXL AND SLASH FIGHTS, SLASH QUITS - Page 2 (a-4-d.com) I talked to Marc Canter about it at some point, too. Axl probably has an early version of the song in the vault. Could be quite different from the one released by Velvet Revolver.

And here's what I have on those three songs Axl wanted to release with Slash on them. I don't think it was any of the songs that ended up getting released, but more likely three songs they worked on while Slash was still in the band. Or maybe it was later songs that Axl felt would benefit from a typical Slash lead guitar. 22. NOVEMBER 1999-JANUARY 2001: LINEUP TURMOIL BUT A TRIUMPHAL RETURN - Page 2 (a-4-d.com)

[Cosmo]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:49 AM, Lethalis said:

By The Sword has a sweet Slash solo on it... nice, totally forgot about that song. Even though I think Myles Kennedy is a very nice person, I also think it's great Slash will work with other vocalists again on his next solo album.

This song with Andrew Stockdale shows us why.

 

Andrew is amazing. God, I wish him and Slasj would do more stuff together. Wolfmother has been so bad lately 

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, RONIN said:

As for the Jackie Chan song, Duff pretty clearly told Howard Stern that they were working on a song for an upcoming Jackie Chan movie. What could have been the movie in question? Jackie Chan's First Strike, Mr. Nice Guy, and Rush Hour fall within the time frame. Rush Hour would have been his first actual american release as First Strike and Mr. Nice Guy were hong kong films. I imagine the record company was just trying to get the band working again by giving them another movie soundtrack offer like Sympathy for the Devil. GnR's next release after Sympathy was another movie soundtrack with End of Days. It appears that the Jackie Chan offer fell through because they couldn't get it together. Then, "This I Love" was rejected for What Dreams May Come in '98. So I guess, there was some sporadic band activity even during '96-98.

Yes, that's what Duff said in 1996 (and Matt in his book). But there's been a kind of an update on that story, so the song may have not been intended for a movie after all. See here:

 

[Its Tino]

9 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Yeah, CD era songs like It’s so Easy, My Michelle, You’re Crazy, Reckless Life, 14 years, Perfect Crime, Shadow of your Love..

This is wrong. Robin got actual credits in a lot more than just Better.

I’m going by the liner notes. Where do you see conflicting info? Why would the liner notes say different? Genuinely curious. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Its Tino

[Voodoochild]

23 minutes ago, Its Tino said:

I’m going by the liner notes. Where do you see conflicting info? Why would the liner notes say different? Genuinely curious. 

Blackstar posted this above. It's an interesting read:

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, but there are also the credits that appear in databases like ASCAP, which report who gets royalties for writing a song. There are some differences between the two regarding CD.

See here for more details:

https://www.mygnrforum.com/topic/224631-writing-credits-and-publishing-shares-for-gnr-songs/

 

 

[Blackstar]

40 minutes ago, Its Tino said:

I’m going by the liner notes. Where do you see conflicting info? Why would the liner notes say different? Genuinely curious. 

There are some differences between the liner notes in the regular album artwork and the ones in the alternate artwork (Finck has more credits in the latter), and also differences between the liner notes in both and ASCAP (Finck appears to have an additional couple of credits there). Have a look at the link above.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Blackstar

[Ratam]

With @Blackstar in this Forum we don't need AI, she to answer anything.

[Voodoochild]

30 minutes ago, Ratam said:

With @Blackstar in this Forum we don't need AI, she to answer anything.

How do you know that Blackstar is not an AI? 

[Ratam]

shhhh... i suspect it. But can't said it .....

[metalavenger99]

Perhaps did make it to number 1 here: https://www.billboard.com/charts/hard-rock-digital-song-sales/ and finally charted on the main hot alternative and rock list: https://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs/ 

Doesn't mean anything for sure since SCOM and Greatest Hits are still at most of those rock charts but it's nice to see the magic 8 ball artwork there at least.

[Ratam]

4 minutes ago, metalavenger99 said:

Perhaps did make it to number 1 here: https://www.billboard.com/charts/hard-rock-digital-song-sales/ and finally charted on the main hot alternative and rock list: https://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs/ 

Doesn't mean anything for sure since SCOM and Greatest Hits are still at most of those rock charts but it's nice to see the magic 8 ball artwork there at least.

And SCOM is 8.

[Its Tino]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

There are some differences between the liner notes in the regular album artwork and the ones in the alternate artwork (Finck has more credits in the latter), and also differences between the liner notes in both and ASCAP (Finck appears to have an additional couple of credits there). Have a look at the link above.

Thanks. I wonder why that is. 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

How do you know that Blackstar is not an AI? 

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

shhhh... i suspect it. But can't said it .....

Proof that I'm not:

Spoiler

(ChatGPT is stupid )

 

[Ratam]

15 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Proof that I'm not:

  Hide contents

(ChatGPT is stupid )

 

Exactly, you're better ☺👍

[AxlRQ93]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

There are some differences between the liner notes in the regular album artwork and the ones in the alternate artwork (Finck has more credits in the latter), and also differences between the liner notes in both and ASCAP (Finck appears to have an additional couple of credits there). Have a look at the link above.

hey you seem to know a lot about this. what cd / post cd songs were written first? If HS is 96, OMG was 97 is there anything else from that time frame that has been out?