D.. Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Blackstar said: The main takeaway from what Marco Beltrami said is that it's now 100% confirmed that Monsters is Soul Monster. As far as the two Vs. one song debate, in addition to what Marco Beltrami confirmed, the two songs were clearly still separated at least at the time of Axl's chats in 2008, as Axl seemed to refer to them as two different songs. The confusion arises 1) from the fact that they have been registered as one song in credits databases and moreover the takedown notices for Monsters said that it was due to illegally uploading The General and 2) from the fact that parts of the orchestral intro can be heard on both songs. Regarding the orchestral piece that was used as intro at concerts, I think it's possible that it was its own thing and a mashup of Beltrami's work on both The General and Leave Me Alone/Soul Monster. And then maybe, at some point after 2008, the two songs were paired together, not necessarily to be made into one song in the form of Rocket Queen, but more like a "suite" of two songs that are linked thematically. I think @WhazUpis on to something about Axl's original idea being to have them back to back on an album. Bach said that Axl told him that The General would be on a post-CD album because it was connected lyrically to other songs that would be on that future album as well. So now, since these songs are not being released as part of an album, Axl probably decided to release them as a song that has a Pt. 1 and Pt. 2. Dammit, can't add more reactions today. Great post. Would love to listen to the orchestral piece again, can't find it. I think someone even recreated it properly at some point. But yeah this intro to gigs was possibly a mashup. It's also clear to me The General's version we have was chopped, which further makes me think it's Slash & Duff on this version. I can totally picture a version of The General with a longer intro, and they must have cut it like they cut Hard School's intro. Like Beltrami said, those versions (leaks) have been modified from what those songs were 20 years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindmelon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Blackstar said: The confusion arises 1) from the fact that they have been registered as one song in credits databases and moreover the takedown notices for Monsters said that it was due to illegally uploading The General and 2) from the fact that parts of the orchestral intro can be heard on both songs. Regarding the orchestral piece that was used as intro at concerts, I think it's possible that it was its own thing and a mashup of Beltrami's work on both The General and Leave Me Alone/Soul Monster. I received the same takedown notice on SoundCloud weeks ago when I remastered the 2006 tour intro. Given that some of those string parts in that 2006 intro are in monsters i'm not surprised monsters was flagged as the general. Because it seems to be legally classed as being the same track, we know now that it isn't, but I didn't know that at the time of course when i uploaded it. I can't quite write it in a way that makes sense but it seems like defensive trademarking based off of assumptions the fanbase made. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindmelon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, D.. said: Dammit, can't add more reactions today. Great post. Would love to listen to the orchestral piece again, can't find it. I think someone even recreated it properly at some point. But yeah this intro to gigs was possibly a mashup. It's also clear to me The General's version we have was chopped, which further makes me think it's Slash & Duff on this version. I can totally picture a version of The General with a longer intro, and they must have cut it like they cut Hard School's intro. Like Beltrami said, those versions (leaks) have been modified from what those songs were 20 years ago. You can't receive PM's. Edited October 31, 2023 by Rindmelon appalling grammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.. Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rindmelon said: You can't receive PM's. Thanks! Cleaned my inbox & pm'd you! Edited October 31, 2023 by D.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitstuai Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, Blackstar said: The main takeaway from what Marco Beltrami said is that it's now 100% confirmed that Monsters is Soul Monster. As far as the two Vs. one song debate, in addition to what Marco Beltrami confirmed, the two songs were clearly still separated at least at the time of Axl's chats in 2008, as Axl seemed to refer to them as two different songs. The confusion arises 1) from the fact that they have been registered as one song in credits databases and moreover the takedown notices for Monsters said that it was due to illegally uploading The General and 2) from the fact that parts of the orchestral intro can be heard on both songs. Regarding the orchestral piece that was used as intro at concerts, I think it's possible that it was its own thing and a mashup of Beltrami's work on both The General and Leave Me Alone/Soul Monster. And then maybe, at some point after 2008, the two songs were paired together, not necessarily to be made into one song in the form of Rocket Queen, but more like a "suite" of two songs that are linked thematically. I think @WhazUpis on to something about Axl's original idea being to have them back to back on an album. Bach said that Axl told him that The General would be on a post-CD album because it was connected lyrically to other songs that would be on that future album as well. So now, since these songs are not being released as part of an album, Axl probably decided to release them as a song that has a Pt. 1 and Pt. 2. Wasn't Soul Monster the bridge of Me & My Elvis or something? There are so many working titles I'm lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arnuld Posted October 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2023 I had been saying since Friday afternoon that Monsters is Soul Monster. Glad Beltrami seemed to confirm this. But really did we need any confirmation beyond that bridge on Monsters….. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, kitstuai said: Wasn't Soul Monster the bridge of Me & My Elvis or something? There are so many working titles I'm lost Axl talked about singing the bridge of Soul Monster and that's how the fanbase knew about a song with this title. When the Village discs leaked, many fans thought that Me and My Elvis was Soul Monster just because an earlier and longer title of Soul Monster had "Elvis Presley" in it. However, there was never evidence that they were the same song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Arnuld said: I had been saying since Friday afternoon that Monsters is Soul Monster. Glad Beltrami seemed to confirm this. But really did we need any confirmation beyond that bridge on Monsters….. It seemed likely, but yea it's nice to have confirmation. Hopefully that means Me & My Elvis became something else later, and wasn't abandoned. I still want to know what Monstrocity is, too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitstuai Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Blackstar said: Axl talked about singing the bridge of Soul Monster and that's how the fanbase knew about a song with this title. When the Village discs leaked, many fans thought that Me and My Elvis was Soul Monster just because an earlier and longer title of Soul Monster had "Elvis Presley" in it. However, there was never evidence that they were the same song. Okay I see. I've heard some people saying they heard the instrumental of Soul Monster and it has nothing to do with our "Monsters" song. So, this isn't true I guess (what they said) Edited October 31, 2023 by kitstuai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Blackstar said: Axl talked about singing the bridge of Soul Monster and that's how the fanbase knew about a song with this title. When the Village discs leaked, many fans thought that Me and My Elvis was Soul Monster just because an earlier and longer title of Soul Monster had "Elvis Presley" in it. However, there was never evidence that they were the same song. Well, it was the combination of the Elvis titles and the 'Black Sabbath' comment, I can see how that description could fit that instrumental. Nice to have it cleared up now though... Soul Monster definitely lived up to the hype 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Arnuld said: I had been saying since Friday afternoon that Monsters is Soul Monster. Glad Beltrami seemed to confirm this. But really did we need any confirmation beyond that bridge on Monsters….. Yeah, so had I. And some of us had also questioned the forum "fact" that Me and My Elvis was Soul Monster. Thankfully, at least this case is closed now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick85 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Monsters/Soul Monster lived up to the hype, no doubt about it. Best of the 5 reunion tracks by far. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindmelon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Yeah we all need to re think things we thought we knew i suspect. Earlier on GNRevo we were talking about when Stinson mentioned recording a little interlude thing for CD in i think 2006. I had completely forgotten that was even a thing, i think there has been far more done than most people believe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoMw94 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 57 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said: I don't know why everyone is so insistent that these two songs are somehow one song. Each song has a beginning, a middle, and an end. They are separate. There's no segue. There's no connection. This isn't a "9 minute epic." It's two 4 minute songs. Just listen to them and enjoy them. Stop trying to force your opinion into existence when it's clearly wrong. But isn't that what you're doing? Nothing is "clear" one way or the other, and here's why: 32 minutes ago, Blackstar said: The confusion arises 1) from the fact that they have been registered as one song in credits databases and moreover the takedown notices for Monsters said that it was due to illegally uploading The General and 2) from the fact that parts of the orchestral intro can be heard on both songs. There's evidence for both sides. They might be two songs, but they're just as likely to be one song. As for the "no segue" point, there's form: What about the ends of Rocket Queen or November Rain? (A case could be made for the end of Paradise City too.) They're no strangers to taking a full 90 degree turn mid-song and going in a completely different direction. Ultimately, until the official release, we won't know the full story, but calling people out for forcing their opinion by forcing your own opinion is a tad hypocritical. I can see why either explanation is "clearly wrong", but know which side I sit of for now based on what we know. Like you though, I'd be willing to change my mind when we know the full story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estrangedtwat Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I'm not forcing anything. They're two separate songs. That's all. If you believe otherwise, you're just plain wrong. If we get a version on a proper release that has them combined into one song, then that will be one song. As of right now, it's two songs. Not opinion. Fact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NachoLZ Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 The General intro is too much like the village leaks guitars, people around here 100% sure that's Slash playing and tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfacelessturtle Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1. Perhaps 2. Monsters 3. Absurd 4. The General 10. Hard Skool At least until I hear the proper mix and quality for Monsters, I would still put Perhaps above it. I didn't care for Perhaps at all until I heard the official release, so I'm excited to hear Monsters in its full glory at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoMw94 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said: I'm not forcing anything. They're two separate songs. That's all. If you believe otherwise, you're just plain wrong. If we get a version on a proper release that has them combined into one song, then that will be one song. As of right now, it's two songs. Not opinion. Fact. Absolutely no need to be so heavy-handed. Unless you're in the band, you don't know anything for a "fact" yet. None of us do. As I (and @Blackstar who's pretty much regarded as the most knowledgeable person here) said, there's evidence for both sides. You can't call people out for doing exactly the same thing as you. Calling people wrong because they don't believe the same as you isn't fact, it's opinion. And that's fine. People can have opinions, but the facts haven't been established yet. But they will be... Edited October 31, 2023 by DoMw94 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said: I'm not forcing anything. They're two separate songs. That's all. If you believe otherwise, you're just plain wrong. If we get a version on a proper release that has them combined into one song, then that will be one song. As of right now, it's two songs. Not opinion. Fact. What would be the alternative explanation for "The General and Monsters" being a singular title when officially registered versus both separately in that case? I don't think it is unreasonable to treat it as one singular sonic journey made up of two compositions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygod Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Unbelievable these songs have been in the closet for so long. Both amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlasIllusions Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Can someone tell me, was hard school always not "appreciated" by the fandom? I always see so many people on the forum ranking it so low or saying all the "reunion" songs suck. I personally love Hard School and always have since the original leak. I do prefer the original opening rather than the school bell, but still I love the version that was released. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Blackstar Posted October 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2023 Two more things to be pointed out: 1. Since The General and Monsters share the same credits, and Monsters=Soul Monster, it's safe to say that Soul Monster came from the same Brain+writing partners sessions as The General and Seven. And The General and Soul Monster were not in Village discs in some early form, although according to Brain they were written in late 2000 and the later dates of the mixes in the locker leaks are from late 2001, iirc (so it's likely that Seven isn't there either, although there is this alleged Fortus comment). Which is further evidence that not everything that was worked on during that time period is in the locker leaks. 2. Pele has lost the bet 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Its Tino Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Is the best part of this is that Pele was wrong? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindmelon Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Blackstar said: Two more things to be pointed out: 1. Since The General and Monsters share the same credits, and Monsters=Soul Monster, it's safe to say that Soul Monster came from the same Brain+writing partners sessions as The General and Seven. And The General and Soul Monster were not in Village discs in some early form, although according to Brain they were written in late 2000 and the later dates of the mixes in the locker leaks are from late 2001, iirc (so it's likely that Seven isn't there either, although there is this alleged Fortus comment). Which is further evidence that not everything that was worked on during that time period is in the locker leaks. 2. Pele has lost the bet They easily had another album at least, vocals and all 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 How did that comment about Seven get pinned to Fortus!? I'm 99% sure the "Seven = Circus Maximus and D Tune" thing came from that kid who posted lists all the time. Atlas1997 or something like that? I guess he posted it enough that people just started accepting it, and somehow it became "Fortus mentioned it to a fan..." but I don't think Fortus had anything to do with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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