British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

Why are we discussing the empire? It is completely irrelevant (beyond maintaining the sovereign dignity of extent crown dependencies). I do not believe there is a single leave voter who voted leave based upon the premise that he could suddenly, 'dust off the olde pith and redcoat, invade Zululand - ''to teach the 'orrible little bliters a good does of the three C's''.'!

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why are we discussing the empire? It is completely irrelevant (beyond maintaining the sovereign dignity of extent crown dependencies). I do not believe there is a single leave voter who voted leave based upon the premise that he could suddenly, 'dust off the olde pith and redcoat, invade Zululand - ''to teach the 'orrible little bliters a good does of the three C's''.'!

Because a lot of Leave voters are actually stuck in that time. Take back control of what? Make cars to be sold only in the UK? UK workers only? If you don't buy something sombody else makes. Nobody is going to buy your products. Now young people want to go to college. They don't want to work in a factory, drive taxis and be waiters at some pub or restaurant. 

[AtariLegend]

21 hours ago, Padme said:

Because a lot of Leave voters are actually stuck in that time. 

More than half of leave voters according to polls want the death penalty brought back, dark blue passports (despite the fact they technically already could had this if the gov had chosen so) and ounces brought back. Almost half of them want corporal punishment in schools.

Yes there's plenty of exceptions. The reality is though, there's an extreme generational divide in this country. Luckily only 10% are desperate to see a return to shillings...

As for this election; guess which party that's set to lose by a landslide is more popular among under 40's? 

Edited May 18, 2017 by AtariLegend

[Padme]

24 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

More than half of leave voters according to polls want the death penalty brought back, dark blue passports (despite the fact they technically already could had this if the gov had chosen so) and ounces brought back. Almost half of them want capital punishment in schools.

Yes there's plenty of exceptions. The reality is though, there's an extreme generational divide in this country. Luckily only 10% are desperate to see a return to shillings...

As for this election; guess which party that's set to lose by a landslide is more popular among under 40's? 

And they also want WWI, II and III, they love that past. They want to import tropical fruits from Brazil and sell the Brazilians Bentley, Rolls Royce and Aston Martin cars. The problem is very few people in Brazil can afford those cars, not to mention the tariff. I wonder what Theresa would do if one of these days Australia and Canada want out of the Commonwealth

[DieselDaisy]

Absolute garbage.

''They want WW1 and 2''? What is that supposed to mean?

And last I checked, maintaining British manufacturing and industries is a very concurrent concern.

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Absolute garbage.

''They want WW1 and 2''? What is that supposed to mean?

And last I checked, maintaining British manufacturing and industries is a very concurrent concern.

After Macron won the election. Farage people twitted an old newspaper article "France Surrenders" "Britain will fight alone" And I've seen Leave people saying they used to be an empire. And that now the EU is an empire and they don't want to be dominated by others. THAT is absolute garbage from idiotic people.

Sure manufacturing is important. But who is buying? Selling manufacturing goods to China is a great idea. But guess what? The companies move to China and they open factories there. I don't see how Brexit can change this.

[Graeme]

3 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

 Almost half of them want capital punishment in schools.

I hope you mean corporal punishment...

"Forgot your homework again? Nothing else for it, you'll be Guillotined in the quadrangle during interval..."

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Padme said:

After Macron won the election. Farage people twitted an old newspaper article "France Surrenders" "Britain will fight alone" And I've seen Leave people saying they used to be an empire. And that now the EU is an empire and they don't want to be dominated by others. THAT is absolute garbage from idiotic people.

Sure manufacturing is important. But who is buying? Selling manufacturing goods to China is a great idea. But guess what? The companies move to China and they open factories there. I don't see how Brexit can change this.

I do not know about an 'empire' but the EU is certainly supranational, woefully corrupt and needlessly bureaucratic. It therefore shares similar attributes of various empires throughout human history.

[bucketfoot]

3 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Almost half of them want capital punishment in schools.

20 minutes ago, Graeme said:

I hope you mean corporal punishment...

"Forgot your homework again? Nothing else for it, you'll be Guillotined in the quadrangle during interval..."

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not know about an 'empire' but the EU is certainly supranational, woefully corrupt and needlessly bureaucratic. It therefore shares similar attributes of various empires throughout human history.

Well the EU is a union of countries. The UK knew what they were geting into. Nobody forced the UK at gun point to join the EU. Burocratic? Yes, but so is the UK. Corrupt? There is a lot of corruption in Italy, Spain and elsewhere. But that's a problem individual countries have. There will always be some degree of corruption in politics everywhere except maybe Norway or Sweden. Still you only see the negative. Look at the positive. There are many business opportunities, education programs like Erasmus, medical benefit for people who need treatment that their own country doesn't provide, trade deals without tariffs, moving around different countries without any visa. I don't think The UK will become a paradise because of Brexit.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Padme

[AtariLegend]

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

I hope you mean corporal punishment...

"Forgot your homework again? Nothing else for it, you'll be Guillotined in the quadrangle during interval..."

Yes, typo on my part.

No kids being hanged, just being beat with sticks. Although I'm curious what the result would be if yougov had said capital for kids.

[DieselDaisy]

17 minutes ago, Padme said:

Well the EU is a union of countries. The UK knew what they were geting into. Nobody forced the UK at gun point to join the EU.

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community (EEC), 1973.

20 minutes ago, Padme said:

Corrupt? There is a lot of corruption in Italy, Spain and elsewhere. But that's a problem individual countries have. There will always be some degree of corruption in politics everywhere except maybe Norway or Sweden.

It is a defeatist argument to supplicant oneself to one type of corruption, just because other types of corruption exist elsewhere! All forms of corruption are detrimental and should be opposed. I am not sure how it is decided that those two Scandinavian countries are completely clean?

22 minutes ago, Padme said:

Still you only see the negative. Look at the positive. There are many business opportunities, education programs like Erasmus, medical benefit for people who need treatment that their own country doesn't provide, trade deals without tariffs, moving around different countries without any visa. I don't think

Equally, I could quite easily list a number of benefits in leaving, such as the ability to develop individual trade deals with other parts of the world, reduction in bureaucracy, clarity of sovereignty and reassertion of the nation-state ideal. There are lists of benefits and negatives for both remain and leave argument, and we'll not sufficiently know the outcome until a future date, and even then, that outcome's interpretation will be subjective.

26 minutes ago, Padme said:

The UK will become a paradise because of Brexit.

Nor do I.

[Archtop]

20 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

And to the ''you should vote'' argument I always reply with the exact same thing, ''then who should I vote for?''. They are all about equally repellent to my eyes.

I'm having a hard enough time myself, no stand out party that I really want to get behind or have faith in so I'm considering the following options:

Voting for the main opposition to a party I don't want to see in government 

Voting for a lesser party in the hope that the more seats picked up by each party gives greater representation in parliament

Vote for the least repellent. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Archtop said:

I'm having a hard enough time myself, no stand out party that I really want to get behind or have faith in so I'm considering the following options:

Voting for the main opposition to a party I don't want to see in government 

Voting for a lesser party in the hope that the more seats picked up by each party gives greater representation in parliament

Vote for the least repellent. 

 

If it is any consolation the French and Americans have the exact same problem with their party politics. Your first option is basically the option chosen by Macron and (to a lesser extent) Trump voters.

[Padme]

17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community (EEC), 1973.

It is a defeatist argument to supplicant oneself to one type of corruption, just because other types of corruption exist elsewhere! All forms of corruption are detrimental and should be opposed. I am not sure how it is decided that those two Scandinavian countries are completely clean?

Equally, I could quite easily list a number of benefits in leaving, such as the ability to develop individual trade deals with other parts of the world, reduction in bureaucracy, clarity of sovereignty and reassertion of the nation-state ideal. There are lists of benefits and negatives for both remain and leave argument, and we'll not sufficiently know the outcome until a future date, and even then, that outcome's interpretation will be subjective.

Nor do I.

The EU was built later. The UK didn't leave when the foundation of the EU happened. The only thing the UK did different was to keep the pound instead of switching to the Euro. Other than that the UK decided to keep the membership despite the fact that the EEC turned into EU.  I'm not saying that Norway and Sweden are corruption free. I said MAYBE. I'm not rulling out the possibility of corruption. Corruption has been part of politics for centuries. It is impossible to have a corrupt free world. Any decent person is against corruption of course. But still it is something that won't go away with a magic trick

What is the benefit of trade when you pay high tariffs? Brexit can't change that. It's not up to UK to change those rules. As I said before globalization is here to stay. Going back to the 70s, the 40s, or the middle age is not going to fix any problem.  Why sovereingty is in danger? In order to reduce bureaucracy the government needs to cut many government jobs... Sure, the day pigs fly

[DieselDaisy]

8 minutes ago, Padme said:

What is the benefit of trade when you pay high tariffs? Brexit can't change that. It's not up to UK to change those rules.

Worst case scenario: WTO tariffs.

8 minutes ago, Padme said:

As I said before globalization is here to stay.

Wishing to depart the European Union does not necessarily indicate a repudiation of globalisation. Heck, it is not even a repudiation of Europe! Sovereignty is inherently eroded through centripetal litigation, and by removing the European Union you are instantly removing an entire substrata of bureaucracy - that is not to say that national bureaucracy should not be reduced also.

[wasted]

My impression was that a lot of Leave voters were OAPs, or at least older people who remember the good old days. 

Maybe it was swung by the immigration voters. Like the Rust Belt they had nothing to lose. 

Problem is the US got Trump for a few years, Brexit is a lot more permanent. 

My instinct says we've run out of credit and have try something or we'll be like Greece. But maybe it was a wild move for the short term. We could have just kept borrowing and playing along. UK does seem to have idenity though. It's not really a country. Maybe it is the telly though. But no more booze cruises to France. What someone was saying is everything will be the same but Brits will make their own croissants. But I think there's a psychological thing where europe thinks we are telling them to fuck off. We were arrogant before now we are fascists. Also croissants are carbs. 

[DieselDaisy]

The Lib Dems want to legalise cannabis and use the tax from sales of it to fund a second referendum or some other bollocks. I know who has a new job at their party HQ: Snakes!

[DieselDaisy]

17 minutes ago, wasted said:

My impression was that a lot of Leave voters were OAPs, or at least older people who remember the good old days. 

 

England,

Quote

...the country of long shadows on county grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and - as George Orwell said - ''old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist''

John Major

[DieselDaisy]

I just realised that this evil looking guy I was talking with at the next table in a pub about a year ago, about, of all things, that stupid song Cotton Eyed Joe, is an EDL member!

[Len Cnut]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I just realised that this evil looking guy I was talking with at the next table in a pub about a year ago, about, of all things, that stupid song Cotton Eyed Joe, is an EDL member!

EDL BLOKE (pissed): Cotton Eyed Joe...sounds like a coon sharecropper innit eh? eh?!? *guffaws, elbowing Dies'*

DIES' (slightly uncomfortable, sipping his Pimms): Yes, quite!

Edited May 18, 2017 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

EDL BLOKE (pissed): Cotton Eyed Joe...sounds like a coon sharecropper innit eh? eh?!? *guffaws*

DIES' (slightly uncomfortable): Yes, quite!

His girl, or the girl he was with anyway, was giving me the eyeballs; it was her I was discussing the song with really while he went off for a drink or something or other. Then he returned. Crazy tattoos on his face.

[Len Cnut]

24 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

His girl, or the girl he was with anyway, was giving me the eyeballs; it was her I was discussing the song with really while he went off for a drink or something or other. Then he returned. Crazy tattoos on his face.

Friendly bunch, you northerners, you don't talk to a strangers bird around here for long unless you're lookin' for em to peel you off a right hander.

[wasted]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

England,

John Major

All funded by borrowed money. We had our head up our bottoms for the 80s and 90s. It was glorious. 

You don't get elected by saying that. It's much better to just borrow more money and say everything's going to be great. What they mean is for 2 years of their career peak maybe nobody will mention it. Then to distract them get kicked out on a sex scandal for the book deal. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by wasted

[DieselDaisy]

4 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Friendly bunch, you northerners, you don't talk to a strangers bird around here for long unless you're lookin' for em to peel you off a right hander.

I certainly didn't initiate the conversation! I was just sitting there with my pint and paper. I was getting chatted up by a lady fascist haha - She Wolf of the EDL.

3 hours ago, wasted said:

All funded by borrowed money. We had our head up our bottoms for the 80s and 90s. It was glorious. 

You don't get elected by saying that. It's much better to just borrow more money and say everything's going to be great. What they mean is for 2 years of their career peak maybe nobody will mention it. Then to distract them get kicked out on a sex scandal for the book deal. 

Blair was giving money away like sweeties. You only had to go into a doctors with a common cold to successfully claim 'disability'.