Appetite for Distortion Ep. 74 - "Leaker's Revenge"

[Gambit83]

Since the days of "Chinese Democracy" being a question of when/if it would come out, Guns N' Roses fans have been obtaining/sharing unreleased songs and video of that mysterious era of the band. In episode 74 we take a deep dive into the online trading culture, in particular the story of a GNR fan from Mississippi, Rick Dunsford. Rick shares his almost unbelievable story of trying to obtain the pro-shot 2001 House of Blues show (Axl's first with the new band).

Also joining the conversation is friend of the show and Administrator of MyGNRForum.com, "RussTCB." Russ gives incredible analysis of what Rick and many other GNR fans have to go through in order to obtain "leaks." Also discussed, what could be the long-rumored song, "The General" may have leaked...or is it fan-made? How far will some GNR fans go with their passion for unheard material?

Let's discuss and leave YOUR opinion on episode 74 of Appetite for Distortion...

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/53-Appetite-for-Distortion-27615384/episode/ep-74-leakers-revenge-feat-29596995/

https://www.spreaker.com/user/theafdshow/ep-74-leakers-revenge-feat-russtcb-rick-

 

[downzy]

Yeah @RussTCB!!!

I always look forward to episodes of Appetite for Distortion podcast, but this one I'm looking a little more than usual.  Can't wait until tonight after the family have gone to bed to have a listen.

 

[RussTCB]

6 minutes ago, downzy said:

Yeah @RussTCB!!!

I always look forward to episodes of Appetite for Distortion podcast, but this one I'm looking a little more forward to it.  Can't wait until tonight after the family have gone to bed to have a listen.

 

Right on. Some of @axlrosefan4life's story is damn near shocking. While he was going into all of the details, I was sitting there getting more and more upset about the whole situation. Then I just went off haha. 

[axlrosefan4life]

The story is so bizarre that its almost unreal. I'm glad its over with now and everyone gets to enjoy all the shit that came from it

[Estrangedfx]

I'm a little confused about the legitimacy of The General here, which they all discuss here on the podcast. A very, very enjoyable one, by the way.... Umm.... So apparently, over the course of 3 years, a fan/pro tools mastermind "re-created" the song?? As in, it's "fan-made"?

Also, when he goes into detail of the songs meaning, lyrically.... I just can't imagine Axl singing or writing something from the perspective of a victim of abuse (i.e. Clean vocals) to that of a sexual Predator (Heavy raspy vocals).... That just sounds.... Odd. Not to mention incredibly controversial. Not that Axl hasn't had his share of controversy or the fact he's s victim of abuse himself.... It just seems very unlikely of what The General has been rumoured to be... A sequel of sorts to Estranged. 

I dunno. I just don't buy that part of this story, about The General. Thoughts??

Edited July 16, 2018 by Estrangedfx

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, Estrangedfx said:

I'm a little confused about the legitimacy of The General here, which they all discuss here on the podcast. A very, very enjoyable one, by the way.... Umm.... So apparently, over the course of 3 years, a fan/pro tools mastermind "re-created" the song??

This isn't fact by any means, but what I was told was that the vocals come from the isolated Chinese Democracy vocals. 

The person who made it spent years editing and manipulating syllables to make it sound the way it does.

Again, that's just what I was told by someone who heard that from someone else lol. 

Of course as I said during this episode, if GNR would just release new music ever, we wouldn't even have to wonder about these things lol. 

[Estrangedfx]

9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

This isn't fact by any means, but what I was told was that the vocals come from the isolated Chinese Democracy vocals. 

The person who made it spent years editing and manipulating syllables to make it sound the way it does.

Again, that's just what I was told by someone who heard that from someone else lol. 

Of course as I said during this episode, if GNR would just release new music ever, we wouldn't even have to wonder about these things lol. 

Yeah, I hear ya. Not to dismiss whatever this guy did to manipulate the Chinese Democracy vocals or his ability to do so, but, to be clear... Whatever he did is NOT The General, as in the song as it appears to nobody else, gathering dust in Axls aforementioned "Vault". 

So still, nobody has actually heard what The General REALLY sounds like... Just a basic instrumental and vocal guess, so to speak? I mean, the real version of the song could (and probably certainly doesn't) sound absolutely Anything like this pro tools mash up, which is a shame. I can deal with not hearing it, but I at least was hoping for an accurate description of what it actually sounded like. Unfortunately, we still don't really know. Ugh. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Estrangedfx

[Estrangedfx]

Great job, by the way, Russ. You are very informative, knowledgeable and kinda hilarious about how absurd this all is.

Also, as I mentioned to you before (not too long ago, via pm), I've been a fan of your Chinese Democracy remixes from live performances for years. You did those fan polished versions of The Blues, etc ...long before Chinese Democracy was released, didn't you? 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Estrangedfx

[RussTCB]

1 minute ago, Estrangedfx said:

Great job, by the way, Russ. You are very informative, knowledgeable and kinda hilarious about how absurd this all is.

Also, as I mentioned to you before (not too long ago, via pm), I've been a fan of your Chinese Democracy remixes from live performances for years. You did those versions of The Blues, long before Chinese Democracy was released, didn't you? 

Thank you for the compliment on the podcast appearance

I didn't do any mixes of anything until after the Rock Band CD tracks came out though. I think some people made really good mixes before the album came out but mine were all done later. 

[Estrangedfx]

Oh, ok. Sorry, I must have been mistaken. I don't know who the hell I'm thinking of. Isn't there a member on here who did some remixes of some of the 2002 shows, prior to 2008? 

[Uncle Bob]

Russ sounds like Seth Rogen

[RussTCB]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Bob said:

Russ sounds like Seth Rogen

I've been told that many times :/ lol

19 minutes ago, Estrangedfx said:

Oh, ok. Sorry, I must have been mistaken. I don't know who the hell I'm thinking of. Isn't there a member on here who did some remixes of some of the 2002 shows, prior to 2008? 

I'm certain there was, yeah. I can't keep track of that stuff anymore haha. I know a lot of people did some GREAT work before the record was finally released, that's for sure. 

[Gambit83]

Just now, RussTCB said:

I've been told that many times :/ lol

You actually sound like my friend Stud who co-hosted the Johnny Kelly episode.

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, Gambit83 said:

You actually sound like my friend Stud who co-hosted the Johnny Kelly episode.

I bet I'd like him more than I like Seth Rogen 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

This isn't fact by any means, but what I was told was that the vocals come from the isolated Chinese Democracy vocals. 

The person who made it spent years editing and manipulating syllables to make it sound the way it does.

Again, that's just what I was told by someone who heard that from someone else lol. 

Of course as I said during this episode, if GNR would just release new music ever, we wouldn't even have to wonder about these things lol. 

Although that is a fairly good description on how Chinese Democracy was recorded. 

[Gordon Comstock]

1 hour ago, Estrangedfx said:

Oh, ok. Sorry, I must have been mistaken. I don't know who the hell I'm thinking of. Isn't there a member on here who did some remixes of some of the 2002 shows, prior to 2008? 

I think I have those saved as the 'Bloody Roses Remasters', was that the username? Those were the most popular ones before 2008 I think.

 

I'll try to listen to the whole podcast tonight or tomorrow.

[Uncle Bob]

Very interesting. It's nice to know how all this happened. When I saw all that stuff magically surfacing, I really wanted to know how would this happen, there is always some mystic around all of these leaks, and the real story behind it, doesn't disappoint, it's totally unreal to see this happening.
I have loved Russ rant about this situation, because it's clear that some fans would do unbelievable things to listening to new music. They fucking want to give money to Axl, and Slash and whoever is in the Gn'R camp, because this is a band, and we love their music.

But what I wonder is... what if Axl and the GN'R camp actually want to release new music, or they have been trying for years, but Universal is just not interested?
I would understand the neverending touring and all these clothes Fernando seems to love

Thank you guys!

Edited July 17, 2018 by Uncle Bob

[willl]

Another great episode, really bizarre story but very entertaining to hear Rick tell it, and I also loved Russ's little outburst about why its all GNR's fault really

[ZoSoRose]

The General does indeed seem to be about child abuse. In an old Rolling Stone article they mentioned a song about child abuse on the album. In the cell phone recording it does indeed sound like a lyric directly pertains to the subject. I didnt decode it, so I wont take credit regarding alleged lyrics. I do believe they are close, though. Especially taking the Rolling Stone article into account 

[Blackstar]

Great podcast! Thank you all for sharing these stories and insights.

The number of die-hard fans on the forums who would gladly buy any CD era music, even above face value, doesn't seem to be enough motivation for Axl to release music from the vault. Maybe he thinks that a larger number of fans will hate it, and that weighs for him more and has kept him from releasing it. Or maybe it has to do with the record label. Or maybe it's both.

I don't know if it has to do with not wanting to release unfinished product anymore. I was surprised that he agreed for the AFD demos and stuff like The Plague to be officially released, although he was adamantly against releasing demos or unfinished songs in the past. Unless he doesn't mind the old stuff and is sensitive only about the CD stuff. But then again, just a few years ago, he tried to block the release of Hollywood Rose and Rapidfire demos.

The live concerts are another story. Nothing makes sense about it. It doesn't make sense that only one classic era show (from the many that were filmed professionally) has been officially released and that no live material, audio at least, is included in the box set; or that of all the NuGnR concerts Axl chose to release Appetite For Democracy.

I wonder if there are any legalities in regards to the UYI footage, possibly because of a falling out with people involved who have rights to it. The other day I watched the GNR Central podcast with Andy Morahan. Very good interview overall with a lot of cool stories, but the most interesting part for me was that August Jakobsson, the director of the UYI documentary, has the material (I didn't get if Andy meant all of it or part of it) and Andy has prompted him to release it but he doesn't want to. Btw he had done a video for I Don't Care About You consisting of live footage (he had also directed the videos for Duff's Believe In Me and Slash's Good To Be Alive) which apparently was never officially released:

https://vimeo.com/154408923

(embedding is not allowed)

17 hours ago, Estrangedfx said:

Also, when he goes into detail of the songs meaning, lyrically.... I just can't imagine Axl singing or writing something from the perspective of a victim of abuse (i.e. Clean vocals) to that of a sexual Predator (Heavy raspy vocals).... That just sounds.... Odd. Not to mention incredibly controversial. Not that Axl hasn't had his share of controversy or the fact he's s victim of abuse himself.... It just seems very unlikely of what The General has been rumoured to be... A sequel of sorts to Estranged. 

I dunno. I just don't buy that part of this story, about The General. Thoughts??

I'm skeptical too, since it's not the actual studio recording but a "recreation"  (iirc, the fan who made it confirmed it on this forum himself).

But I think it wouldn't be beyond Axl to write something like that. The "perspective of the abuser" could be what the victim "hears". Also the abuse theme is not totally unrelated to Estranged. Axl had said that Estranged was about alienation and broken relationships; with Erin (later it was projected to Stephanie Seymour too), but also with his family and with the band. Abuse was a major factor in both his relationship with his family and his romantic relationships, so maybe he took it on that level and dealt with that side of those relationships.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Blackstar

[donny]

good and eye opening listen that was. the lengths people go to for this unreleased stuff is unreal. with those sums of money changing hands how long until someone gets killed over it ? 

Russ had a good idea, pay a monthly/yearly subscription like nightrain and get some old pro shot in return. i would pay for that but not for a water bottle and passport.

people still discussing if the General is about child abuse ? Axl said in a 2001 interview that it was. and no one has mentioned a name yet but i take it the fan made version spoken about in the podcast is the Evader version ? 

as for new music. across the road on another forum this week it was pointed out that Merck would profit from any new music released and after the fallout Axl wouldn't want to release anything for that reason. there is also the story about the new album being rejected in 2010, any truth in that ? if so then Axl might want to release new music as much as we want to hear it but its out of his hands. 

[Nikki_Sixx]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

 Btw he had done a video for I Don't Care About You consisting of live footage (he had also directed the videos for Duff's Believe In Me and Slash's Good To Be Alive) which apparently was never officially released:

https://vimeo.com/154408923

 

THIS IS PURE GOLD !!!

I had no idea this even existed, thanks for sharing ! 

This is just another reminder of how much CRAZY footage that they have of that era   which we'll never see ...

[RussTCB]

7 hours ago, Uncle Bob said:

I have loved Russ rant about this situation, because it's clear that some fans would do unbelievable things to listening to new music. They fucking want to give money to Axl, and Slash and whoever is in the Gn'R camp, because this is a band, and we love their music.

But what I wonder is... what if Axl and the GN'R camp actually want to release new music, or they have been trying for years, but Universal is just not interested?
I would understand the neverending touring and all these clothes Fernando seems to love

I've been in marketing & sales my whole professional life. Absolutely nothing bothers me more than a customer trying to spend money and a business makes it hard for them. So while I was listening to Rick, I was getting more and more angry about that, because that's essentially what it is: GN'R is a business that refuses to sell product to it's customer, the fans. 

I've thought about the Universal aspect of that too but I truly don't think that's it. Years ago, when packaging and a major marketing campaign were needed for every release? Maybe. Not these days though. Some of the most talked about, listened to and most profitable releases in the past few years had little to no marketing and weren't even released physically until 6 months to a year later. 

To me, it's just that the GN'R camp either doesn't want to or doesn't have any idea how to do these things. 

6 hours ago, downliner said:

Another great episode, really bizarre story but very entertaining to hear Rick tell it, and I also loved Russ's little outburst about why its all GNR's fault really

 It's so funny but @downzy, the rest of the staff and I constantly get accused of being paid by the band to "be positive" about them or "censor negative opinions" about GN'R. I always point out that I'm one of the more outspoken people when the band does something (or many things) wrong to their fans. From now on, I'm just going to give people a link to this episode and the time stamp of where my "rant" is 

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

The number of die-hard fans on the forums who would gladly buy any CD era music, even above face value, doesn't seem to be enough motivation for Axl to release music from the vault. Maybe he thinks that a larger number of fans will hate it, and that weighs for him more and has kept him from releasing it. Or maybe it has to do with the record label. Or maybe it's both.

I don't know if it has to do with not wanting to release unfinished product anymore. I was surprised that he agreed for the AFD demos and stuff like The Plague to be officially released, although he was adamantly against releasing demos or unfinished songs in the past. Unless he doesn't mind the old stuff and is sensitive only about the CD stuff. But then again, just a few years ago, he tried to block the release of Hollywood Rose and Rapidfire demos.

The live concerts are another story. Nothing makes sense about it. It doesn't make sense that only one classic era show (from the many that were filmed professionally) has been officially released and that no live material, audio at least, is included in the box set; or that of all the NuGnR concerts Axl chose to release only Appetite From Democracy.

I wonder if there are any legalities in regards to the UYI footage, possibly because of a falling out with people involved who have rights to it. The other day I watched the GNR Central podcast with Andy Morahan. Very good interview overall with a lot of cool stories, but the most interesting part for me was that August Jakobsson, the director of the UYI documentary, has the material (I didn't get if Andy meant all of it or part of it) and Andy has prompted him to release it but he doesn't want to. 

Fair points but again; communication is key. Why not at least inform your customer as to the how's & why's of things? A simple "We'd love to but...." would go a long way with the fans. Instead, we're left to wonder and make assumptions. 

40 minutes ago, donny said:

good and eye opening listen that was. the lengths people go to for this unreleased stuff is unreal. with those sums of money changing hands how long until someone gets killed over it ? 

Russ had a good idea, pay a monthly/yearly subscription like nightrain and get some old pro shot in return. i would pay for that but not for a water bottle and passport.

Honest to God, your first point is why I backed up and made it clear that I didn't want to make light of @axlrosefan4life's situation. It has crossed my mind in the past that someone could eventually get hurt over this kind of stuff which is scary and awful. 

As for your second point, @Gambit83 said a couple of times that GN'R should hire me. I thought that was humorous just based on how many negative things I've said about the band HOWEVER, as I said before, I've been in marketing & sales my whole life. Honestly, I'd be MORE than happy to help GN'R out for free. The ideas I threw out there during this episode were just off the top of my head. If I had some time, I could come up with some more ideas that would make both the fans & the bean counters very happy. I kid you not, I would do it for absolutely free too. That's how much of a fan I am and how much I think the relationship between this band and it's fans needs repairing. 

[Annabelle]

Great episode with many cool stories. Russ’s rant was the best part

[Dean]

Great listen guys.

I had no idea that people managed to get their hands on the HOB show so recently, I assumed people had been sat on it for years, as I've seen people say they've had it since 2002.