Axl is not to blame

[packersnroses]

It really was a no-win situation for him. Why destroy what you have been building for 15 years, just to sell your soul for the pleasure of record execs. and so-called "fans"?

Do you know how uncomfortable and awkward it would have been for them to be on stage together, let alone play?

Yes but who put Axl in this position?

The people at the Rock Hall. They're the ones trying to force them to reunite. Axl never asked to be inducted.

[TeeJay410]

I have to say, has Axl ever considered that possibly, maybe, to continue on with his new band isn't the best idea? He garners little to no respect from it and it's not as if they release music, so fans won't lose much (though I'd love to hear the other two alleged CD albums). The RnRHOF could have been his trump card out of the obligation to keep trudging along to make the new band work.

Whatever. I love just about any and all incarnations of the band. Some more than others. It would have been nice to see him with the old guys again just once, and if it negates the new band, so what? Instead of going down with the name Gn'R with its new members, Axl could realize the success of it is a lost cause. It will never be like it was. He will never sell out stadiums with the new guys. If he's content with that, so be it. More power to him. But with everything we've come to know about Axl, his vision, his determination, club gigs and 3/4 full arena gigs in the U.S. in his heart of hearts isn't good enough.

[Coma16]

- Axl had the most professional and best in the business, at the end of the day though, he's still boss, they say something smart but he disagrees.... fired. End of that issue.

- Beta and her spawn clearly hate Slash as much as Axl does. Beta is now managing Axl. If the old band got together would Beta be managing? Hell no. So, Beta is like his mother... her family like his family... they hate Slash... Beta's current income and standing professionally depend on no reunion with Slash, etc.... it's not hard to see Her family DOES have influence on his decisions, clearly as family does. It's also not hard to see her family DOESN'T respect Slash and DOES have self interest in keeping things the way they are.

Clearly I'm making some assumptions but those dots are so big and so easy to connect if you think about it. If he's getting influenced by either a ) family b ) management c ) people he is around a lot of the time then it's obvious the influence will be to keep the course, fuck Slash, and fuck the old band as a, b and c are the same fucking people.

Exactly. These people are bad news. Axl is so afraid of being manipulated, well, that's exactly what's happening.

"These people" have been putting the tour together since late 2009. They have done a great job at it as well. They just need to get legal shit out of the and start RELEASING MUSIC!!!!

[Kira]

I think people are getting a clearer picture of the situation. You can't fake integrity or pick and choose. Look at Steven shooting his mouth off and the disrespect shown to the CD era. Look at it from Axls point of view, would you play with people who tried to destroy you?

Destroy him? That's a tad much no? It's Adler, he says dumb shit all the time, the guys down and out, can you blame him? He forgave Axl for tossing him out of the band, Axl should do the same. Suck it up.

- Axl had the most professional and best in the business, at the end of the day though, he's still boss, they say something smart but he disagrees.... fired. End of that issue.

- Beta and her spawn clearly hate Slash as much as Axl does. Beta is now managing Axl. If the old band got together would Beta be managing? Hell no. So, Beta is like his mother... her family like his family... they hate Slash... Beta's current income and standing professionally depend on no reunion with Slash, etc.... it's not hard to see Her family DOES have influence on his decisions, clearly as family does. It's also not hard to see her family DOESN'T respect Slash and DOES have self interest in keeping things the way they are.

Clearly I'm making some assumptions but those dots are so big and so easy to connect if you think about it. If he's getting influenced by either a ) family b ) management c ) people he is around a lot of the time then it's obvious the influence will be to keep the course, fuck Slash, and fuck the old band as a, b and c are the same fucking people.

Exactly. These people are bad news. Axl is so afraid of being manipulated, well, that's exactly what's happening.

"These people" have been putting the tour together since late 2009. They have done a great job at it as well. They just need to get legal shit out of the and start RELEASING MUSIC!!!!

They tell Axl everything he wants to hear. That's not a great job IMO. The "legal shit" is another mysterious roadblock in the endless quagmire of Axl's life. It's bullshit.

[HowlinWolf]

Fuck Axhole Rose

[RandallFlagg]

I think people are getting a clearer picture of the situation. You can't fake integrity or pick and choose. Look at Steven shooting his mouth off and the disrespect shown to the CD era. Look at it from Axls point of view, would you play with people who tried to destroy you?

Destroy him? That's a tad much no? It's Adler, he says dumb shit all the time, the guys down and out, can you blame him? He forgave Axl for tossing him out of the band, Axl should do the same. Suck it up.

Why 'should' he? And crazy Steve is like the weather, something different every day!

[TeeJay410]

Thing is, Axl seems to be a one step forward two steps back sort of person. He can sure find new and creative ways to make people hate him.

[Allen8R]

Let me first say that it sucks as a GNR fan to hear so many fans telling Axl to fuck off. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings about this just the way Axl is entitled to his. The big problem here is the lack of professional support surrounding Axl. Don't get me wrong, Axl Rose is a highly intelligent, articulate and well-spoken individual. But when it comes to making good professional decisions, he almost needs someone to save him from himself. While I respect the transparency of his letter, with it coming clearly from the heart, you can tell he's undecided about his decision. Almost like he's arrived at his decision reluctantly. But that's where his publicist and management need to step in and say, "hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it." Clearly they weren't expecting the level of backlash that will now follow. Forget the die hard fans cursing him out, the mainstream media is going to have a field day with this. And here's what that now means for Axl and the new band he is protecting:

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

3. It means people will continue to blame Axl for taking away the band they loved

4. It means the new band members will be dragged through the mud unnecessarily

5. It means nobody will care anymore

Sucks. A poor decision.

But what I don't get is this...Axl seemed to be in good spirits lately. He was saying nice things about Slash. Where is all of this anger coming from? Somebody close to him is pushing his buttons. Somebody close to him is leading him to the point of no return. I don't know exactly who it is. I don't want to speculate. But the brand Guns N Roses has lost a lot of value today in the eyes of consumers. I'm not sure how much longer they can continue to disappoint and expect people to keep coming back for more. A sad day for all of us.

If I remember correctly, you're a PR guy yourself and you make a valid observation where it seems Axl is getting bad advice.

I'm sure that's not the case though, I think that anyone who gives him good advice ends up getting fired like so many managers, promoters and other staff over the years because Axl doesn't want to listen.

The fact is, he's stubborn and you couldn't tell the man the sky is blue if he thought otherwise. I'm also in the communications industry and I once had a boss just like that. I wound up losing that job for giving him advice that directly contradicted his thoughts on the matter. What's he doing now? Nothing. The publication went out of business within 4 months after I left. The sad part is, the same will likely soon happen to GNR.

A8R

Edited April 12, 2012 by Allen8R

[Nicc]

Trust me groghan this board overreacts ALLOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT lol

Hell look what happened when Finck just showed up for a few songs, now I could only imagine what this place was like when Izzy showed up a few years ago on stage..... pandemonium

now I see allen has calmed down of sorts lol

Edited April 12, 2012 by Nicc

[Howard2k]

With all due respect, get a grip.

Nothing would have halted momentum and made people care less about the current band than the deluge of pics and coverage of Axl at an event/table/podium with former bandmates while every VT and presenter celebrates the acheivements of that former line-up.

His course of actions results in the least of all evils for the current band, while confirming clearly where his commitment lies.

The induction backed Axl into a corner, and will now force him to take considerable stick for a situation entirely not of his making.

Great post.

Anyone remember when GNR were a kick ass dirty sleazy rock band that simply did not give a fuck? Maybe Axl is actually the only one? RNRHOF is a farce, who cares?

[axlsalinger]

Let me first say that it sucks as a GNR fan to hear so many fans telling Axl to fuck off. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings about this just the way Axl is entitled to his. The big problem here is the lack of professional support surrounding Axl. Don't get me wrong, Axl Rose is a highly intelligent, articulate and well-spoken individual. But when it comes to making good professional decisions, he almost needs someone to save him from himself. While I respect the transparency of his letter, with it coming clearly from the heart, you can tell he's undecided about his decision. Almost like he's arrived at his decision reluctantly. But that's where his publicist and management need to step in and say, "hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it." Clearly they weren't expecting the level of backlash that will now follow. Forget the die hard fans cursing him out, the mainstream media is going to have a field day with this. And here's what that now means for Axl and the new band he is protecting:

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

3. It means people will continue to blame Axl for taking away the band they loved

4. It means the new band members will be dragged through the mud unnecessarily

5. It means nobody will care anymore

Sucks. A poor decision.

But what I don't get is this...Axl seemed to be in good spirits lately. He was saying nice things about Slash. Where is all of this anger coming from? Somebody close to him is pushing his buttons. Somebody close to him is leading him to the point of no return. I don't know exactly who it is. I don't want to speculate. But the brand Guns N Roses has lost a lot of value today in the eyes of consumers. I'm not sure how much longer they can continue to disappoint and expect people to keep coming back for more. A sad day for all of us.

Well stated. I can't say that I'm 100% convinced that the people around him in 2012 are giving him bad advice, but there is one thing I am convinced about. Axl Rose's yes-men in the early 1990's destroyed Guns n' Roses. The fame went to his head, and they enabled him and his ego to run amok and destroy the band from the inside. I have spent a lot of time over the years defending this man, but he was part of an incredible band in the late 80's, and he let it turn to shit. I believe that he surrounded himself with people who told him what he wanted to hear, stopped listening to people like Izzy and Duff who would tell him how it is, and it went sour. Against all odds, in 2001-02 he built up a second incredible band, and again it turned to shit. I have little doubt the same will happen again this time.

I really do like Beta and the current crew. But at some point, a person has to acknowledge reality. And the reality is that the decisions that are made, are inevitably poor ones. One person is ultimately to blame, but the people around him have got to save him from himself. I fear that now, it may be too late.

[axlsalinger]

I should add, I wouldn't have been upset if they didn't play. I'll admit I would have loved to see it. But all I wanted was for the band to attend the ceremony, have a drink, acknowledge the past, thank the fans, shake hands and accept the accolades for one night.

What a horrific, incredibly difficult, unbelievably tortuous, completely unacceptable thing for a person to have to do.

And fuck Steven Adler. His being a moron is irrelevant to Axl's decision.

[SoulMonster]

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

Rubbish. The ticket sales for Europe will not be affected by this at all. Europe in general couldn't care less about the US HOF award.

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

Might be, although I think you exaggerate the effect. And why should people loose respect for the current members because of Axl's feud with former members? It makes no sense. I think you underestimate people's cognitive abilities.

5. It means nobody will care anymore

Rubbish.

But yeah, I agree that he is not accepting good advice from people around him. That DOES NOT mean he is not getting good advice, it could easily be that he chooses not to follow them. So don't be too quick with blaming his management and publicist.

Edited April 12, 2012 by SoulMonster

[LandOla]

Let me first say that it sucks as a GNR fan to hear so many fans telling Axl to fuck off. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings about this just the way Axl is entitled to his. The big problem here is the lack of professional support surrounding Axl. Don't get me wrong, Axl Rose is a highly intelligent, articulate and well-spoken individual. But when it comes to making good professional decisions, he almost needs someone to save him from himself. While I respect the transparency of his letter, with it coming clearly from the heart, you can tell he's undecided about his decision. Almost like he's arrived at his decision reluctantly. But that's where his publicist and management need to step in and say, "hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it." Clearly they weren't expecting the level of backlash that will now follow. Forget the die hard fans cursing him out, the mainstream media is going to have a field day with this. And here's what that now means for Axl and the new band he is protecting:

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

3. It means people will continue to blame Axl for taking away the band they loved

4. It means the new band members will be dragged through the mud unnecessarily

5. It means nobody will care anymore

Sucks. A poor decision.

But what I don't get is this...Axl seemed to be in good spirits lately. He was saying nice things about Slash. Where is all of this anger coming from? Somebody close to him is pushing his buttons. Somebody close to him is leading him to the point of no return. I don't know exactly who it is. I don't want to speculate. But the brand Guns N Roses has lost a lot of value today in the eyes of consumers. I'm not sure how much longer they can continue to disappoint and expect people to keep coming back for more. A sad day for all of us.

If I remember correctly, you're a PR guy yourself and you make a valid observation where it seems Axl is getting bad advice.

I'm sure that's not the case though, I think that anyone who gives him good advice ends up getting fired like so many managers, promoters and other staff over the years because Axl doesn't want to listen.

The fact is, he's stubborn and you couldn't tell the man the sky is blue if he thought otherwise. I'm also in the communications industry and I once had a boss just like that. I wound up losing that job for giving him advice that directly contradicted his thoughts on the matter. What's he doing now? Nothing. The publication went out of business within 4 months after I left. The sad part is, the same will likely soon happen to GNR.

A8R

I won't be sad if this new band will burn to the ground. I actually hope it does. Karma is a bitch and it's gonna catch Axl sooner or later.

I wouldn't be mad if Axl just had decided not to go to the HOF. I'd still be dissappointed but not mad. I'm mad for him trying his hardest to remove himself from the Appetite/UYI lineups.

Why the hell can't he just appreciate what once was and still keep pushing on forward.

What a sad bitter old man he has become.

[wasted]

I'm excited to see Axl sing Sorry on the euro tour now.

Edited April 12, 2012 by wasted

[titchy000]

Let me first say that it sucks as a GNR fan to hear so many fans telling Axl to fuck off. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings about this just the way Axl is entitled to his. The big problem here is the lack of professional support surrounding Axl. Don't get me wrong, Axl Rose is a highly intelligent, articulate and well-spoken individual. But when it comes to making good professional decisions, he almost needs someone to save him from himself. While I respect the transparency of his letter, with it coming clearly from the heart, you can tell he's undecided about his decision. Almost like he's arrived at his decision reluctantly. But that's where his publicist and management need to step in and say, "hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it." Clearly they weren't expecting the level of backlash that will now follow. Forget the die hard fans cursing him out, the mainstream media is going to have a field day with this. And here's what that now means for Axl and the new band he is protecting:

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

3. It means people will continue to blame Axl for taking away the band they loved

4. It means the new band members will be dragged through the mud unnecessarily

5. It means nobody will care anymore

If hes keen to remove himself from the appetite/illusion eras, why then are his gigs mostly filled with music from those eras. Axl is the most contradictory person ive seen in the music biz.

Sucks. A poor decision.

But what I don't get is this...Axl seemed to be in good spirits lately. He was saying nice things about Slash. Where is all of this anger coming from? Somebody close to him is pushing his buttons. Somebody close to him is leading him to the point of no return. I don't know exactly who it is. I don't want to speculate. But the brand Guns N Roses has lost a lot of value today in the eyes of consumers. I'm not sure how much longer they can continue to disappoint and expect people to keep coming back for more. A sad day for all of us.

If I remember correctly, you're a PR guy yourself and you make a valid observation where it seems Axl is getting bad advice.

I'm sure that's not the case though, I think that anyone who gives him good advice ends up getting fired like so many managers, promoters and other staff over the years because Axl doesn't want to listen.

The fact is, he's stubborn and you couldn't tell the man the sky is blue if he thought otherwise. I'm also in the communications industry and I once had a boss just like that. I wound up losing that job for giving him advice that directly contradicted his thoughts on the matter. What's he doing now? Nothing. The publication went out of business within 4 months after I left. The sad part is, the same will likely soon happen to GNR.

A8R

I won't be sad if this new band will burn to the ground. I actually hope it does. Karma is a bitch and it's gonna catch Axl sooner or later.

I wouldn't be mad if Axl just had decided not to go to the HOF. I'd still be dissappointed but not mad. I'm mad for him trying his hardest to remove himself from the Appetite/UYI lineups.

Why the hell can't he just appreciate what once was and still keep pushing on forward.

What a sad bitter old man he has become.

[Towelie]

Blah blah fucking blah.

Axl is doing what he wants to do and what he feels is right and genuine. Any form of reunion - even a one-off - would, at this stage, feel contrived and done for all the wrong reasons.

I love the old band, but am glad Axl has reached this decision because anything else would feel disingenuous. I personally would rather go and see a band who want to be on stage performing together and enjoying eachothers company rather than a bunch of guys faking it to please the masses and their own bank accounts.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Towelie

[username]

Let me first say that it sucks as a GNR fan to hear so many fans telling Axl to fuck off. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. Everyone is entitled to their feelings about this just the way Axl is entitled to his. The big problem here is the lack of professional support surrounding Axl. Don't get me wrong, Axl Rose is a highly intelligent, articulate and well-spoken individual. But when it comes to making good professional decisions, he almost needs someone to save him from himself. While I respect the transparency of his letter, with it coming clearly from the heart, you can tell he's undecided about his decision. Almost like he's arrived at his decision reluctantly. But that's where his publicist and management need to step in and say, "hey, maybe this isn't the best way to go about it." Clearly they weren't expecting the level of backlash that will now follow. Forget the die hard fans cursing him out, the mainstream media is going to have a field day with this. And here's what that now means for Axl and the new band he is protecting:

1. It means all of the momentum they just created is gone

2. It means people will have even less respect and support for the new band

3. It means people will continue to blame Axl for taking away the band they loved

4. It means the new band members will be dragged through the mud unnecessarily

5. It means nobody will care anymore

Sucks. A poor decision.

But what I don't get is this...Axl seemed to be in good spirits lately. He was saying nice things about Slash. Where is all of this anger coming from? Somebody close to him is pushing his buttons. Somebody close to him is leading him to the point of no return. I don't know exactly who it is. I don't want to speculate. But the brand Guns N Roses has lost a lot of value today in the eyes of consumers. I'm not sure how much longer they can continue to disappoint and expect people to keep coming back for more. A sad day for all of us.

There's one thing horribly wrong here Kaneda.

You base your argument around a 50 year old man not being responsible for his own decisions.

The worst part is that in this case you're probably not that far from the truth either.

[ThinkAboutYou]

I think all that will happen is Guns N Roses will lose about a tenth of the existing fan base

Blah blah fucking blah.

Axl is doing what he wants to do and what he feels is right and genuine. Any form of reunion - even a one-off - would, at this stage, feel contrived and done for all the wrong reasons.

I love the old band, but am glad Axl has reached this decision because anything else would feel disingenuous. I personally would rather go and see a band who want to be on stage performing together and enjoying eachothers company rather than a bunch of guys faking it to please the masses and their own bank accounts.

I wouldn't want that either

Edited April 12, 2012 by ThinkAboutYou

[Guest Len B'stard]

HUUUUUGE fuckin overstatement. Honestly, it's just a silly little ceremony that really, when it's all said and done, don't mean shit. They were given an award, the man reckons it's a load of bollocks and refused it, big deal, who cares, NuGuns are still at where they always were and the same goes for old. I respect Axls desicion highly, it's things like this that seperate him from the other cockstains in and around his milieu. Whatever anyone might think of him the man has some kind of fuckin moral compass here, some sort of principles, he thinks the shit is crooked so he ain't gonna be a part of it. The bit i like best is the don't induct me i don't wannabe a part of it bit, rated.

Owes the fans? Oh give over

Now thats how you write a letter

Edited April 12, 2012 by sugaraylen

[Eu4ic]

I tend to think your points all come true to a degree if Axl goes to HOF and plays with old Gnr

[dismalswamp]

Another nail in the coffin. Until someone squares up to him or until he breaks down completely it's all fucked.

[SoulMonster]

Another nail in the coffin. Until someone squares up to him or until he breaks down completely it's all fucked.

What is fucked? Guns N' Roses is doing great.

[Meanmachine22]

actually this is the best move for him if he wants to continue with Nu GNR.

He knew he would get shit either way..

Wise decision not to show up !!!

Edited April 12, 2012 by Meanmachine22

[phaeryen]

Haha, Axl is never to blame for anything!!!!! this is absolutely true!