Show thread May 21st, 2014 - Las Vegas, NV - No Trickery!

[Ferrari]

Photoshop.

[Nulla Lex Ink.]

Vegas 2012 1st show (without stupid jams and solos):

CHINESE DEMOCRACY

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE

IT'S SO EASY

MR. BROWNSTONE

ESTRANGED

BETTER

LIVE AND LET DIE

THIS I LOVE

ROCKET QUEEN

MOTIVATION

STREET OF DREAMS

YOU COULD BE MINE

SWEET CHILD O' MINE

NOVEMBER RAIN

GLAD TO BE HERE

DON'T CRY

DON'T LET IT BRING YOU DOWN

CIVIL WAR

KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR

NIGHTRAIN

MADAGASCAR

PATIENCE

PARADISE CITY

Vegas 2014 1st show:

CHINESE DEMOCRACY

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE

IT'S SO EASY

MR. BROWNSTONE

ESTRANGED

BETTER

ROCKET QUEEN

LIVE AND LET DIE

THIS I LOVE

HOLIDAYS IN THE SUN

CATCHER IN THE RYE

YOU COULD BE MINE

SWEET CHILD O' MINE

NOVEMBER RAIN

ABNORMAL

DON'T CRY

CIVIL WAR

KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR

NIGHTRAIN

PATIENCE

THE SEEKER

PARADISE CITY

what a shame...

Key difference man, "The Seeker." I'm telling you, "The Spaghetti Incident: The Sequel!?" announcement is just around the corner.

I will shoot myself

Not before you shoot me. I know I seem excited about it, but that's all a joke/ruse. That type of album would almost be less than nothing.

[RandallFlagg]

The thing that pisses the fanbase off the most is that there is nothing clear on whether he does or does not intend to release anything. The only thing we get is the same setlist for four years and dj ashba selling his junk and bumblefoot complaining. I personally believe Axl gave up when the label rejected a sequel to democracy telling him they liked about two songs. He probs sits at a laptop listening and prodding pieces of Atlas together and shaking his head because he can't gather the fire he needed to get Democracy out to the world.

I don't give a flying fuck what the label thinks, anything Axl releases under the GNR name would be intriguing at the very least.

[Pinball Wizard]

If Ron quits I won't be surprised. He's been pretty vocal about this problem lately, it's just a matter of if people picked up on that.

[tinyrobot]

Good for Ron. A genuine and talented guy like him deserves to work in better company than a group of thieves, liars, posers and has-beens.

I imagine much of this has to do with the 'news' posted here before the current tour.

I personally thought management announcing (even through a fan site) that 'we might play 2 or 3 songs' was a fairly pathetic ploy. Almost an acknowledgement of their own stagnation. "Let's throw the diehards a carrot or they might not hand over their wallets for this year's cash grab tour" - and as if a couple of new/different songs wouldn't be a given with virtually any other band on the planet.

The fact that Axl can't/won't even attempt to live up to the most piddlingly small pathetic aspirations he sets for himself and would rather play gigs knowing that he's failed to deliver as promises is as good an indicator as any that there's no hope.

It also shows pretty clearly who's the cause of the current state of affairs. For all the claims of record company politics getting in the way, we can rest assured that if Axl wanted to play new material, we would be hearing it in a live setting at least. He's a constipated doughy shadow of his former self who seems too shit scared of failure to strive for success and put it on the line. A sad state of affairs for the last great rockstar.

Good luck Ron. Stick to your guns, let the greenfly finish off the roses.

Exactly. And...

I understand the "old songs" are the hook for most of the audience that attend these shows because "fans" are long gone and there's only us, the obsessed ones.... BUT why in the hell so much war and crap throughout the years to "save GN'R", to make another record, to wipe history, if after releasing an album you will completely NEGLECT it from your setlist and end up playing the same shit you played 20 years ago?

That's the shit that bugs me the most.... for what we've been seeing lately, wasn't it easier and more redituable to keep the founding members in the band?

I thought all this controversy, legal wars and what not were to stand up for Chinese Democracy and following albums! But ChinDem is out of the picture and I hate that because I LOVE that album and its a disgrace going to a current GN'R show to hear only 3 or 4 ChinDem tunes. It makes my blood boil!

[RandallFlagg]

Good for Ron. A genuine and talented guy like him deserves to work in better company than a group of thieves, liars, posers and has-beens.

I imagine much of this has to do with the 'news' posted here before the current tour.

I personally thought management announcing (even through a fan site) that 'we might play 2 or 3 songs' was a fairly pathetic ploy. Almost an acknowledgement of their own stagnation. "Let's throw the diehards a carrot or they might not hand over their wallets for this year's cash grab tour" - and as if a couple of new/different songs wouldn't be a given with virtually any other band on the planet.

The fact that Axl can't/won't even attempt to live up to the most piddlingly small pathetic aspirations he sets for himself and would rather play gigs knowing that he's failed to deliver as promises is as good an indicator as any that there's no hope.

It also shows pretty clearly who's the cause of the current state of affairs. For all the claims of record company politics getting in the way, we can rest assured that if Axl wanted to play new material, we would be hearing it in a live setting at least. He's a constipated doughy shadow of his former self who seems too shit scared of failure to strive for success and put it on the line. A sad state of affairs for the last great rockstar.

Good luck Ron. Stick to your guns, let the greenfly finish off the roses.

Exactly. And...

I understand the "old songs" are the hook for most of the audience that attend these shows because "fans" are long gone and there's only us, the obsessed ones.... BUT why in the hell so much war and crap throughout the years to "save GN'R", to make another record, to wipe history, if after releasing an album you will completely NEGLECT it from your setlist and end up playing the same shit you played 20 years ago?

That's the shit that bugs me the most.... for what we've been seeing lately, wasn't it easier and more redituable to keep the founding members in the band?

I thought all this controversy, legal wars and what not were to stand up for Chinese Democracy and following albums! But ChinDem is out of the picture and I hate that because I LOVE that album and its a disgrace going to a current GN'R show to hear only 3 or 4 ChinDem tunes. It makes my blood boil!

Exactly this

Axl is almost in the void he described in Coma again.

[tinyrobot]

Good for Ron. A genuine and talented guy like him deserves to work in better company than a group of thieves, liars, posers and has-beens.

I imagine much of this has to do with the 'news' posted here before the current tour.

I personally thought management announcing (even through a fan site) that 'we might play 2 or 3 songs' was a fairly pathetic ploy. Almost an acknowledgement of their own stagnation. "Let's throw the diehards a carrot or they might not hand over their wallets for this year's cash grab tour" - and as if a couple of new/different songs wouldn't be a given with virtually any other band on the planet.

The fact that Axl can't/won't even attempt to live up to the most piddlingly small pathetic aspirations he sets for himself and would rather play gigs knowing that he's failed to deliver as promises is as good an indicator as any that there's no hope.

It also shows pretty clearly who's the cause of the current state of affairs. For all the claims of record company politics getting in the way, we can rest assured that if Axl wanted to play new material, we would be hearing it in a live setting at least. He's a constipated doughy shadow of his former self who seems too shit scared of failure to strive for success and put it on the line. A sad state of affairs for the last great rockstar.

Good luck Ron. Stick to your guns, let the greenfly finish off the roses.

Exactly. And...

I understand the "old songs" are the hook for most of the audience that attend these shows because "fans" are long gone and there's only us, the obsessed ones.... BUT why in the hell so much war and crap throughout the years to "save GN'R", to make another record, to wipe history, if after releasing an album you will completely NEGLECT it from your setlist and end up playing the same shit you played 20 years ago?

That's the shit that bugs me the most.... for what we've been seeing lately, wasn't it easier and more redituable to keep the founding members in the band?

I thought all this controversy, legal wars and what not were to stand up for Chinese Democracy and following albums! But ChinDem is out of the picture and I hate that because I LOVE that album and its a disgrace going to a current GN'R show to hear only 3 or 4 ChinDem tunes. It makes my blood boil!

Exactly this

Axl is almost in the void he described in Coma again.

He BEGGED us to move on and when we finally did, accepted the new album, new members, all the BS in general, he took 100 steps back and put us in hell again.

[shades]

look, a guitarist leaving that calls himself, or worse yet lets others call him "bumblefoot" is hardly going to impact what Axl does.

like "Slash" or "buckethead" they're just talented cartoon characters lending their craft.

the real impact is IF Axl has new music to release, WITH Axl on vocals. There are a lot of guitarists out there that would love to be a part of that.

it will matter very little to the quality of the music.

Why some can not get their head around this concept is beyond me.

You can't have Queen without Freddie Mercury, you cant be Aerosmith with out Tyler, or ACDC without Brian Johnson, John Fogerty, you get the idea.

But missing Slash, or Bumblefoot has very little to do with GNR's success,

if Axl sings like Axl can sing and writes music like Axl writes music its Guns N Roses

that being said Axl should make a move soon, the current greatest Hits tour is starting to get "Stones" lame

Edited May 22, 2014 by shades

[NachoLZ]

<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoOS-76IQAAYr76.jpg" alt="BoOS-76IQAAYr76.jpg"> what's the point of this piano platform? the flying piano thing was cheesy but it was kinda cool. this one looks ugly as fuck. this is not the evolution axl promised us!!!! also, is this the live debut of Happy Birthday Fernando?

Damn, its ugly

[Amir]

When Robin left (from GNREvo's Chinese Whispers):

"Robin's departure was abrupt, sudden, you know, not expected [...] but at the same time, it's turned out to be a good thing. We've been able to push some of the guitar parts a step farther, that had he been here, it's not something that would have been considered, and I wouldn't have been rude enough to attempt to do that. [...] Robin's guitar will stay on some [of the re-recorded AFD tracks], but not all." (Axl, MTV, 11/08/99)

"Axl was feeling he that was in a difficult place, because the guitarist he'd been working with on this new album, [...] that'd done most of the tracks, had departed and Axl had a real emotional attachment to what he'd done, and yet [...] he didn't really want him to stay on the album because he'd disappeared, you know." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

"There were tuning issues that needed to be addressed [...] and this was no fault of Robin's." (Del James, 04/25/08)

When Bucket left:

"We greatly appreciate Bucket's contributions and remain open to "discussions" as there are obviously several issues to resolve. In the meantime rather than dwelling on the negative, Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further. Regardless we hope to announce a release date within the next few months."

It's weird how both times Axl mentions about being able to push the music in new directions once guitarists leave. I wonder if Robin was originally on Catcher and when it looked like he was out he had Brian May record over his parts (I think May was brought in the interim between Finck leaving the first time and Bucket joining).

[Seb91]

Hi, don't often post here. It'll be a shame if Ron goes, I love his solo stuff and he's great to the fans. However, it isn't really surprising given how vocal he's been about his discontent with the way things are in the band. I guess though if Axl doesn't want to release any new music and it is just a nostalgia show it ultimately doesn't matter who plays guitar as they just need to copy someone else's stuff. Also, to the public GN'R is just Axl really I doubt anyone really knows the other members. I wonder who Axl would bring in, John 5 is an amazing player but he seems happy being in Rob Zombie's band, would he trade that for GN'R? I can't really see anyone widely known in guitar circles wanting to play for Guns. As an aside I went to see NIN last night and Finck was awesome!

[Subtle Signs]

look, a guitarist leaving that calls himself, or worse yet lets others call him "bumblefoot" is hardly going to impact what Axl does.

like "Slash" or "buckethead" they're just talented cartoon characters lending their craft.

the real impact is IF Axl has new music to release, WITH Axl on vocals. There are a lot of guitarists out there that would love to be a part of that.

it will matter very little to the quality of the music.

Why some can not get their head around this concept is beyond me.

You can't have Queen without Freddie Mercury, you cant be Aerosmith with out Tyler, or ACDC without Brian Johnson, John Fogerty, you get the idea.

But missing Slash, or Bumblefoot has very little to do with GNR's success,

if Axl sings like Axl can sing and writes music like Axl writes music its Guns N Roses

that being said Axl should make a move soon, the current greatest Hits tour is starting to get "Stones" lame

I disagree Broham. It's pretty clear on any forum outside of our bubble that people consider Gn'R to be Axl and Slash. Sure you can't (legally)have the name Gn'R without Axl and if Ron leaves that will have minimal impact on ticket sales or future album plans but Slash leaving (even some 18 years after the fact) is on a whole other level than the departures of Bucket and (possibly) Ron. Edited May 22, 2014 by xGNRxSTARx

[SlashisGOD]

This side show disaster is getting more ridiculous every day. I hope Ron does leave and it pushes Axl to actually give a fuck and do something in regards to new music or CD leftovers.

look, a guitarist leaving that calls himself, or worse yet lets others call him "bumblefoot" is hardly going to impact what Axl does.

like "Slash" or "buckethead" they're just talented cartoon characters lending their craft.

the real impact is IF Axl has new music to release, WITH Axl on vocals. There are a lot of guitarists out there that would love to be a part of that.

it will matter very little to the quality of the music.

Why some can not get their head around this concept is beyond me.

You can't have Queen without Freddie Mercury, you cant be Aerosmith with out Tyler, or ACDC without Brian Johnson, John Fogerty, you get the idea.

But missing Slash, or Bumblefoot has very little to do with GNR's success,

if Axl sings like Axl can sing and writes music like Axl writes music its Guns N Roses

that being said Axl should make a move soon, the current greatest Hits tour is starting to get "Stones" lame

Missing Slash has a fuck ton of influence over GN'R's success. Look at what this "band" has become since he left.

[RandallFlagg]

I cannot believe the guy has not utilized Bumblefoot's talents and willingness to carve out a new era of GNR. One record out of Bucket and Finck was criminal, idc how much leftover stuff there is, fact is the guy has left it lying around and gathering dust, it don't take 10 years to adjust some fucking rock songs. I don't think there'll be any leftover Bumblefoot assisted tracks, Going Down was a good capture but how many of those is there? You listen to BBF in his clinics and imagine ''what if...' it's pretty retarded and illogical.

[downzy]

look, a guitarist leaving that calls himself, or worse yet lets others call him "bumblefoot" is hardly going to impact what Axl does.

like "Slash" or "buckethead" they're just talented cartoon characters lending their craft.

the real impact is IF Axl has new music to release, WITH Axl on vocals. There are a lot of guitarists out there that would love to be a part of that.

it will matter very little to the quality of the music.

Why some can not get their head around this concept is beyond me.

You can't have Queen without Freddie Mercury, you cant be Aerosmith with out Tyler, or ACDC without Brian Johnson, John Fogerty, you get the idea.

But missing Slash, or Bumblefoot has very little to do with GNR's success,

if Axl sings like Axl can sing and writes music like Axl writes music its Guns N Roses

that being said Axl should make a move soon, the current greatest Hits tour is starting to get "Stones" lame

Not sure you're in any position to label anyone else a cartoon character.

And you do realize that Brian Johnson hasn't been ACDC's only lead singer right? Ever heard of Bon Scott?

Edited May 22, 2014 by downzy

[John Bonham]

you cant be ACDC without Brian Johnson

[Estranged Reality]

Good for Ron. A genuine and talented guy like him deserves to work in better company than a group of thieves, liars, posers and has-beens.

I imagine much of this has to do with the 'news' posted here before the current tour.

I personally thought management announcing (even through a fan site) that 'we might play 2 or 3 songs' was a fairly pathetic ploy. Almost an acknowledgement of their own stagnation. "Let's throw the diehards a carrot or they might not hand over their wallets for this year's cash grab tour" - and as if a couple of new/different songs wouldn't be a given with virtually any other band on the planet.

The fact that Axl can't/won't even attempt to live up to the most piddlingly small pathetic aspirations he sets for himself and would rather play gigs knowing that he's failed to deliver as promises is as good an indicator as any that there's no hope.

It also shows pretty clearly who's the cause of the current state of affairs. For all the claims of record company politics getting in the way, we can rest assured that if Axl wanted to play new material, we would be hearing it in a live setting at least. He's a constipated doughy shadow of his former self who seems too shit scared of failure to strive for success and put it on the line. A sad state of affairs for the last great rockstar.

Good luck Ron. Stick to your guns, let the greenfly finish off the roses.

You're well entitled to your opinion and nothing against you speaking your mind -- however, please refrain from labeling bandmembers as 'thieves,' etc. That's the kind of libelous language that's uncalled for and doesn't help your argument (which was otherwise rather well-structured, imo).

[Amir]

I can't really see anyone widely known in guitar circles wanting to play for Guns.

That's the saddest part of all. What self-respecting guitarist would want to spend the best part of their career covering Slash's guitar parts live for years on end? I guess even back in the day after Slash left there would have been trepidation to be seen as replacing him, but there was still the opportunity to take the biggest band in the world in a new direction. Now what? Play to half-filled South American arenas and Vegas audiences stumbling in after blowing it all on the craps table? Really breaks my heart, man, I really wanted the best for Axl and GNR.

[Estranged Reality]

Also, let's not blow the Ron thing out of proportion. It seems like GN'R never even knows what it's doing the next day (as we've learned all too well over the years eh?) so I wouldn't consider anything in GN'R Land as being concrete or definitive.

[magisme]

Also, let's not blow the Ron thing out of proportion. It seems like GN'R never even knows what it's doing the next day (as we've learned all too well over the years eh?) so I wouldn't consider anything in GN'R Land as being concrete or definitive.

Thanks, Ali.

[rudolf1978]

what happens with Ron? did he say something of leaving?

[RandallFlagg]

This will lead to Ashba taking over if a new record comes to fruition ironically after the guy pushing the hardest for it goes out the door.

On topic, that piano riser is hideous, it's like what you see on construction sites lol. The budget must have gone down.

[Estranged Reality]

That's the saddest part of all. What self-respecting guitarist would want to spend the best part of their career covering Slash's guitar parts live for years on end? I guess even back in the day after Slash left there would have been trepidation to be seen as replacing him, but there was still the opportunity to take the biggest band in the world in a new direction. Now what?

After Slash left I'm sure it would have been daunting for someone else to come in and fill his part, but then again, the band was still fresh enough that if Axl had come back in '99 with a full-fledged band and promoted them as a band (rather than a brand with him steering the ship and the other guys being faceless employees to the mass market) people today would, imo, have no problem with Slash being gone, or at least there would be a more divisive stance between people who want him back versus whoever the new guitarist/lineup would be (sort of like the Hagar/Roth fan feuds). If Axl had gotten someone like Frusciante or Navarro or someone with enough public recognition that they'd be perceived as more than just a so-called 'employee,' and created a lot of new material with them and released the material and promoted it as the work of an actual breathing band, people wouldn't be so hung up on Slash years later.

Axl's problem was that he waited too long, didn't strike while the iron was hot, and when he finally did strike, he never allowed his employees to be perceived by North America as more than just that: employees. We know who these guys are - most people don't. That's not a knock against their talents, that's just stating fact. Go up to any average American and ask what their favourite Richard Fortus solo is or what their favourite Bumblefoot solo record is and see what reaction you get.

Also, let's not blow the Ron thing out of proportion. It seems like GN'R never even knows what it's doing the next day (as we've learned all too well over the years eh?) so I wouldn't consider anything in GN'R Land as being concrete or definitive.

Thanks, Ali.

It bears repeating since Subs' initial comments were getting quite buried.

[Ali]

Also, let's not blow the Ron thing out of proportion. It seems like GN'R never even knows what it's doing the next day (as we've learned all too well over the years eh?) so I wouldn't consider anything in GN'R Land as being concrete or definitive.

Well said. Good point.

Ali

[GNRmello77]

With fans (Caram Costanzo in the background):

it's kinda sad to see all those people happy and enjoying themselves and then there is Axl with a face like that.... what is the point of a look like that?