Kurt Cobain Mocks Missing GNR Tour

[wasted]

Did the Pistols make any money?

[Len Cnut]

I believe a swindle took place

(no, they didn't, at least not until 1992 when Rotten won a court case to win the rights to The Pistols stuff off of Malcolm and give it back to the lads...he then ended up selling it, claiming that he did not want to live off the past. See that? Integrity they call it).

Might've made a few bob on the reunions though.

[Rovim]

What about Street cred. Not everyone gives a shit

Clearly Strange Broue does, which is why he made a point of it, i outlined from the beginning that i thought such comparisons were corny dick-measuring contests but if he's gonna make a point based on his understanding of a situation well then you better make sure it makes sense because you might be talking to someone that actually knows what they're talking about.

You can't have the shit both ways, i seen that a lot in this thread, someone'll make a point of something kinda lightweight and puerile, you'll meet em on their level and do em one better and what you get in response is 'ugh, who cares about that shit, that doesn't matter!' well then don't bring it up then!

It sounds silly when you put it that way, but if you go into detail, you see that I'm making a valid point: not everyone cares about such things when they listen to music, so the value of a Guns album is determined by what it does right, what you have there, and not what you don't and what other bands did better to you.

Something like street cred is just an example of that: something that most people just don't give a fuck about. I gave a reason, I didn't just say "fuck off, no one cares, don't bring it up."

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Steve Jones always hanging out in LA playing soccer and Johns house looks alright.

Duff did say they were dirt poor.

He didn't seem to have money back home, with no dad. None of them seemed to have much of anything to fall back on. But they weren't really living on the streets. Slash and Steven could go home.

Axl n Izzy were along way from Indiana with no money. It's like they had to live like that to commit to the dream.

[Len Cnut]

What about Street cred. Not everyone gives a shit

Clearly Strange Broue does, which is why he made a point of it, i outlined from the beginning that i thought such comparisons were corny dick-measuring contests but if he's gonna make a point based on his understanding of a situation well then you better make sure it makes sense because you might be talking to someone that actually knows what they're talking about.

You can't have the shit both ways, i seen that a lot in this thread, someone'll make a point of something kinda lightweight and puerile, you'll meet em on their level and do em one better and what you get in response is 'ugh, who cares about that shit, that doesn't matter!' well then don't bring it up then!

It sounds silly when you put it that way, but if you go into detail, you see that I'm making a valid point: not everyone cares about such things when they listen to music, so the value of a Guns album is determined by what it does right, what you have there, and not what you don't and what other bands did better to you.

Something like street cred is just an example of that: something that most people just don't give a fuck about. I gave a reason, I didn't just say "fuck off, no one cares, don't bring it up."

You're right, in the final reckoning it don't make a dry turds worth of difference but it is something that people often point to as an indicator of the 'authenticity' (whatever the fuck that means) of the music. But yeah, all in all if whats coming out the speakers is pleasing to you then who gives a fucking shit if it was written by a street person or a one legged gay Tibetan monk with four arses and a severe case of gingivitus.

I guess, the most importance you can level at it is that there is a school of thought that believes that fake street people will, in the long haul, engage in kinds of behaviour or make a sort of music that will shine a light on their overall lack of integrity, in whatever way but even thats pretty general bullshit. I guess the idea is that people that are true to themselves and who they are will produce a kind of enduring art because they represent the reality of a given situation and profundity is generally to be found in amongst realities, as opposed to in amongst bluff and falsehood.

Like i said, it was an argument I was responding to, not one that i put forward or particularly think holds much value.

Something like street cred is just an example of that: something that most people just don't give a fuck about.

I don't agree with that, rightly or wrongly throughout music history there has been a certain credibility assigned to people based on their background, thats an undeniable fact. James Brown, the entire fuckin' genre of the blues, those guys would not have the same credibility if it was suddenly found that, i dunno, Bukka White really came from an upper class family in Uganda and didn't know shit about poverty.

Or if James Brown really came from like, some wealthy landowning family instead of dirt poverty. Your background often has a lot to do with the core audience you attract too. Its one way that people relate to music more, they feel it more, when they think its coming from a place thats real.

Then look at the hip hop community, you don't think that kinda cred has a bearing on music and how its percieved and that the majority don't give a shit? I've often heard it said that the people who don't care about that shit are people reacting to the fact that their own background is, in the pertinent contexts, kinda soft and insubstantial and as such they don't understand the inherent value of the lessons taught by such a background and how that effects you, your life, your behaviour, your moral compass. All of this and more...which is then funnelled and communicated through your chosen art.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Len B'stard

[wasted]

There is that romantic thing of living in your car like DLR to pursue your rock n roll dreams. Like Jim Morrison lives on a roof in Venice Beach. I'm sure how anything get a done if you're working 10 shifts at Taco Bell.

[Rovim]

I don't agree with that, rightly or wrongly throughout music history there has been a certain credibility assigned to people based on their background, thats an undeniable fact. James Brown, the entire fuckin' genre of the blues, those guys would not have the same credibility if it was suddenly found that, i dunno, Bukka White really came from an upper class family in Uganda and didn't know shit about poverty.

Or if James Brown really came from like, some wealthy landowning family instead of dirt poverty. Your background often has a lot to do with the core audience you attract too. Its one way that people relate to music more, they feel it more, when they think its coming from a place thats real.

Then look at the hip hop community, you don't think that kinda cred has a bearing on music and how its percieved and that the majority don't give a shit?

In hip hop definitely. I guess it plays a factor, and probably played a bigger factor in the past before music became so easily accessible.

In the end the biggest factor is the music, just if it made you feel anything which is why I believe an album like AFD will still be listened to decades and even more in the future. Not a ton of street cred, but like I've said:

I think we're talking more about honesty then street cred maybe. It's gotta be honest to stand the test of time, but if you just capture a sentiment well enough as a song...that's enough. Most people won't ask questions, they'll just come back to it and tell their children about it cause it made them feel good which was really the point I was trying to make.

[wasted]

But some people like Pink Floyd and Radiohead which aren't all about being badasses from the street. Fleetwood Mac or The Beach Boys don't strike me as hard motherfuckers.

[Len Cnut]

The thing is, and this is a lot to do with why i think rock n roll is dead, rock n roll was like boxing, it wasn't something chosen by people who had a lot of other different options.

Rich kids don't box in the same way rich kids don't stuff themselves in vans and traipse up and down the country, eat shit food, destroy any lasting relationships they have and live on the fuckin' breadline just to get onstage once a day and play music to a crowd of sleazy fuckers in some outback shithole somewhere. And it's the same with boxing, nobody WANTS to be a fighter, it's the preserve of those with no fuckin' other place to go.

Which is why we don't get no true blue balls to wall rock n roll bands that shoot from the hip, cuz everyones more or less comfortable now, even people that live in council flats have creature comforts and can afford at least a drink every night and then veg in front of the telly watching bullshit all night, who wants to fuckin' spend HOURS and years learning a fuckin' instrument just to get involved in an enterprise that may or may not have you on the fuckin' breadline anyway. We have oppertunities for advancement, for education, to get a good job.

People like The Who, The Beatles, The Pistols, they came from fucking shit lives and shit backgrounds, they lived through the aftermath of a World War (the first three did anyway), these were not fat jaded little playstation jockeys with their big boys tits poking out of their fashionable new clobber, they were hard up.

[wasted]

Vince Neil is a legitimate tough guy but I doubt Crues music has credibility.

[Len Cnut]

I don't agree with that, rightly or wrongly throughout music history there has been a certain credibility assigned to people based on their background, thats an undeniable fact. James Brown, the entire fuckin' genre of the blues, those guys would not have the same credibility if it was suddenly found that, i dunno, Bukka White really came from an upper class family in Uganda and didn't know shit about poverty.

Or if James Brown really came from like, some wealthy landowning family instead of dirt poverty. Your background often has a lot to do with the core audience you attract too. Its one way that people relate to music more, they feel it more, when they think its coming from a place thats real.

Then look at the hip hop community, you don't think that kinda cred has a bearing on music and how its percieved and that the majority don't give a shit?

In hip hop definitely. I guess it plays a factor, and probably played a bigger factor in the past before music became so easily accessible.

In the end the biggest factor is the music, just if it made you feel anything which is why I believe an album like AFD will still be listened to decades and even more in the future. Not a ton of street cred, but like I've said:

I think we're talking more about honesty then street cred maybe. It's gotta be honest to stand the test of time, but if you just capture a sentiment well enough as a song...that's enough. Most people won't ask questions, they'll just come back to it and tell their children about it cause it made them feel good which was really the point I was trying to make.

Honesty, yeah, thats a much better way of putting it

[wasted]

Hipsters are the only ones willing to throw away comfort to have the freedom to post pics of cats on Facebook.

[Len Cnut]

Vince Neil is a legitimate tough guy but I doubt Crues music has credibility.

What is this link people draw with poverty and the ability to kick someones head in? The Pistols came from a street background but they certainly weren't hardnuts. Except Steve Jones, who was a bit tasty, other than that I doubt Sid would give my 9 yr old niece much trouble

Rotten spend a week in an Irish gaol which couldn't've been easy but then he was a paddy anyway. Then again, one with a cockney accent, which i bet must've helped. Apparently on his first day there they stripped his skinny arse naked, slung him in the yard and hosed him down All them fuckin' IRA fuckers in there, he must be reasonably able to handle himself.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Len B'stard

[wasted]

Sid probably have a knife though. Must be harder than Blur. You don't fight unless you have to. I mean if you've got cash you've got better things to do unless you're like Patrick Bateman.

Nothing like taking a shot to help you're rap career. It's kind of the suicide of hip hop. Dying is great for your career.

I think the next thing is a staged death and return. Richey come back the culture is ready.

Edited May 4, 2015 by wasted

[dalsh327]

Almost every band has violent outbursts, I don't care how hippie they were. Add coke to the mix and peace and love goes out the door pretty fast. All the British postwar kids got into brawls growing up, just because they grew their hair out and smoked weed didn't mean they were going to be peace and love when they were being antagonized. The punk kids were actually kind of wimpy compared to the rock musicians in the 60s. The Who and Black Sabbath were born out of schoolyard brawls.

Edited May 4, 2015 by dalsh327

[Len Cnut]

Almost every band has violent outbursts, I don't care how hippie they were. Add coke to the mix and peace and love goes out the door pretty fast.

This is a very pertinent point too, you think all these rough hillbilly Californian motherfuckers that all congregated around Haight Ashbury played with dolls in their spare time? Quite frankly, the Haight was fucking seedy, it was just a fuckin' media sheen put on this shit to make it out to be something else but really it's no different than The Bowery as Georgie Parisole put it, Bowery in the sun.

The big beefy butch motherfuckers with beards and these Hells Angels knocking about. I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

[dalsh327]

Almost every band has violent outbursts, I don't care how hippie they were. Add coke to the mix and peace and love goes out the door pretty fast.

This is a very pertinent point too, you think all these rough hillbilly Californian motherfuckers that all congregated around Haight Ashbury played with dolls in their spare time? Quite frankly, the Haight was fucking seedy, it was just a fuckin' media sheen put on this shit to make it out to be something else but really it's no different than The Bowery as Georgie Parisole put it, Bowery in the sun.

The big beefy butch motherfuckers with beards and these Hells Angels knocking about. I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

The summer of love was very brief, it wound up being a bunch of runaway kids that became junkies and prostitutes, but it was still nicer than New York City which had gone in a huge decline in the 70s. SF had been a beatnik hub and then some of that wound up filtering into the hippie movement.

California does have its rednecks, but they're further east.

[tinyrobot]

Courtney had a huge attraction to Axl.

This.

I can't find the video where she talks about it but I swear I watchd her and I think Axl once said she wasn't his type of woman (or something like that)

Who has more fun, a GnR crowd of Glam poseurs with their make up and leather jackets showing out or a Nirvana crowd, all leaping and launching themselves and crowd surfing.

At the risk of being offensive GnR crowds are a bunch of wankers. Go to one of their gigs and its all these Towers or London lookalikes with the haircut and their lil paunchy guts poking out of their lil 'Live at the Whiskey' t shirts and their ugly girlfriends.

Are you talking about the crowd from the 80's, 90's or 00's?

Cuz I think there's a big difference among fans from each decade and also there may be a huge difference among crowds attending in different countries around the world. I really doubt you've been at every GNR show, specially outside your own bubble.

In the 80's when they started, they were probably as you describe, glam people and shit... But in the 90's, I think their crowd decreased in age from what it was in the 80's... I remember in the 90's, GN'R fans were very young, let's say from 12 years old to 16-18 at the max... (yes, pretty much like the Bieber fans now, LOL) and in the 00's we are all grown ups, most in their 30's probably so I really doubt the GNR crowd nowadays have glam looks and bullshit like that... At least, when I attended the show most people wore normal clothes.

I'm about to engage in an incredibly corny dick measuring contest here but here goes:

Comparison of The Pistols compared to GnR in terms of street cred' is a fucking joke. The fact is GnR were all soft little middle class to lower middle class boys that were acting out some kind of rock n roll street urchin family. Axl Rose weren't on no streets, he was came from a fuckin' lower middle class suburban Indiana set up, as did Izzy. They left because they WANTED to leave and their bullshit street stuff was just lame ass teenage vandalism crap, acting out cuz their Momsies and Dadsies didn't stroke their bollocks when they were growing up. And Slash? He was positively affluent, Christ Almighty his Mum used to make costumes for David Bowie for fuckssake, and you wanna compare them to The Pistols, growing up in London in the 70s? It's a joke of a comparison.

I think the common factor among GNR members was not the social class but their family instability. They left home because the marriage of their parents was going to hell. It is the time when family stopped being strong and they slowly desintegrated. This happened in Kurt's home too.

Living in the streets for them was more like an adventure than something they were forced to do. And they were poor basically because they didn't like to work. Axl for sure hated normal jobs. None of them ever had a serious job. Becoming famous musicians were their salvation, otherwise they all be dead now, dead of overdose.

[J Dog]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

[Len Cnut]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

Having said that, watch this from 2:28 :

[moreblack]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

Having said that, watch this from 2:28 :

A recent followup on that

http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/05/16/gregg-allman-and-dickey-betts-chase-johnny-rotten

[tinyrobot]

LOL

[Len Cnut]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

Having said that, watch this from 2:28 :

A recent followup on that

http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/05/16/gregg-allman-and-dickey-betts-chase-johnny-rotten

Sounds about right. What a cunt Conan is though, look what he goes 'john lydon just started trashing the Allman Bros' and 'John Lydon was just trying to be outrageous for it's own sake', no he didn't, tell it properly, you ASKED him which bands they hated and he told you, he didn't just bust out trashing bands outta nowhere. You know he's an opinionated bastard so you asked him those questions, thats not John trying to be outraegous, thats you purposely asking him dodgy questions

And 'Dickie heard John say that and started running around looking for him', Dickie can't be too fuckin' clever then cuz what was he running around looking for, he was on the shows mainstage when he said it, it's not like he said it from some secret location.

Having said that i have no illusions about the idea of fuck knows how many Allman Bros squashing John like a can of coke You actually introduced me to the Allman Bros blackie, dunno if you remember, thank you for that, that album was brilliant

Edited May 4, 2015 by Len B'stard

[J Dog]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

Having said that, watch this from 2:28 :

A recent followup on that

http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/05/16/gregg-allman-and-dickey-betts-chase-johnny-rotten

Sounds about right. What a cunt Conan is though, look what he goes 'john lydon just started trashing the Allman Bros' and 'John Lydon was just trying to be outrageous for it's own sake', no he didn't, tell it properly, you ASKED him which bands they hated and he told you, he didn't just bust out trashing bands outta nowhere. You know he's an opinionated bastard so you asked him those questions, thats not John trying to be outraegous, thats you purposely asking him dodgy questions

And 'Dickie heard John say that and started running around looking for him', Dickie can't be too fuckin' clever then cuz what was he running around looking for, he was on the shows mainstage when he said it, it's not like he said it from some secret location.

Having said that i have no illusions about the idea of fuck knows how many Allman Bros squashing John like a can of coke You actually introduced me to the Allman Bros blackie, dunno if you remember, thank you for that, that album was brilliant

Some classic stuff. I think rock misses people like Allmans and Rotten, real dudes.

And yeah Conan totally twisted it all up. Don't mess with Dickie Len, that is an old school cat right there.

[moreblack]

I wouldn't fancy my chances up against the Allman Brothers

You know it. Now you are talking about some real motherfuckers.

Having said that, watch this from 2:28 :

A recent followup on that

http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/05/16/gregg-allman-and-dickey-betts-chase-johnny-rotten

Sounds about right. What a cunt Conan is though, look what he goes 'john lydon just started trashing the Allman Bros' and 'John Lydon was just trying to be outrageous for it's own sake', no he didn't, tell it properly, you ASKED him which bands they hated and he told you, he didn't just bust out trashing bands outta nowhere. You know he's an opinionated bastard so you asked him those questions, thats not John trying to be outraegous, thats you purposely asking him dodgy questions

And 'Dickie heard John say that and started running around looking for him', Dickie can't be too fuckin' clever then cuz what was he running around looking for, he was on the shows mainstage when he said it, it's not like he said it from some secret location.

Having said that i have no illusions about the idea of fuck knows how many Allman Bros squashing John like a can of coke You actually introduced me to the Allman Bros blackie, dunno if you remember, thank you for that, that album was brilliant

Some classic stuff. I think rock misses people like Allmans and Rotten, real dudes.

And yeah Conan totally twisted it all up. Don't mess with Dickie Len, that is an old school cat right there.

yeh, he was so hardcore even the Allmans couldn't handle him.