Kurt Cobain Mocks Missing GNR Tour

[Len Cnut]

I'm not going to reply to everything like you do (commendable), but I will talk about the music industry comment. Yes, music has been around for a long time and yes, the music industry as we know it today was mainly established in the early 50s (well it predates the 50s but it was obviously no way near as big). What I'm talking about and what Gene's talking about is the modern industry. So... for any band to say they don't care for money is ridiculous, every band needs money, no money means no way to get out and play music. It's cool to say it, "I'm in this for the music and the scene... I don't care about money" but in reality everybody wants to get paid and one day retire. Courtney (who, granted isn't the most reliable of sources) quoted Kurt saying "$2million dollars and I'll retire and become a junkie".

Like someone posted a few pages back, if the tables were turned and it was Axl that had died in 94' people like you would have a whole different opinion. People would talk about how ludicrous GnR became with the videos and the giant band / entourage, but they would also say a lot of the same things that are said about Kurt today, great song-writer, great frontman, troubled etc. I'm not trying to diminish Kurt Cobains contribution to music, I think he wrote some great songs (I don't think he wrote great albums though), I enjoy his voice, I think he was an entertaining performer when he was coherent.

*The bully comment came in around the point where they talk about the mentally challenged girl.

Kurt Cobain was not anti-money though, he just wasn't interested in being filthy rich. 'of course we wanna make a good living out of it' was a statement of his made around 91/92.

When did i say anything about GnR becoming ludicrous with videos and a giant band/entourage?

And the fact is Kurt Cobain was different, he didn't want money and to just retire, as evidenced by the fact that he shot himself in the face, had he wanted the money and a comfortable life of cash and riches it was there for him...clearly it wasn't that big a priority as within 2 years of having gained these riches he killed himself, kinda shows you exactly how much he valued that shit.

Or when the poor bastard of ODing in the back of his car having been dumped their by a dealer and been pottering around Seattle for days in the same clothes stinking of shit, you think this guy gave a fuck about money? Really?

He's either the troubled whiney wimp who shot himself cuz he couldn't handle life or he was the gluttonous money grubbing cynical shark that lived for money, he can't be both cuz were he the latter he would still be alive today having a very fine time enjoying his riches.

Was he lying? I think he made a statement about a lot of things when he shot himself and not giving a fuck about fame and money is a key one. Thats not to say it was at all a commendable act because i would do ANYTHING, ANYTHING to have that fuckin' boy walkin' the earth still, ANYTHING. Even if he didn't make music and just fuckin' was a total hermit, no amount of money or music or anything is worth one solitary human life, I'd rather rock n roll never existed if it meant that boy could still be around.

But alas..

[Strange Broue]

Anyway it's a shame that he and Duff couldn't manage to hang around together for a while

It will save Cobain for a while...

[RussTCB]

Anyway it's a shame that he and Duff couldn't manage to hang around together for a while

It will save Cobain for a while...

I've always thought that too. Look at the way Duff himself turned out compared to who he was then.

[Strange Broue]

Anyway it's a shame that he and Duff couldn't manage to hang around together for a while

It will save Cobain for a while...

I've always thought that too. Look at the way Duff himself turned out compared to who he was then.

Dunno, i really don't think that Cobain could manage to stay alive

maybe till 1997-1998?

Who knows

he just can't handle the fame, because he want to be an anti hero

You couldn't be an anti hero for long if you wanna still maintain your career as a frontman on one of the most famous acts on the world

maybe if he manage to survive till the Nu Metal thingy, he could have been alive now

Edited May 2, 2015 by Strange Broue

[Towelie]

...

Edited May 2, 2015 by Towelie

[Strange Broue]

Hmm, for the majority of people, GNR ended in 1996
Also that break up was essential for the members to stay alive ( i mean they are all dealing with their addictions (sans Adler) Izzy left to save himself too

That is why they didn't tarnished their legacy completely (besides Axl's attempt to cary on with the name)

I know i sound like a cheap Coelho, but it's a shame that Kurt choose death instead of his family, while Axl who hasn't got any family on his own still alive and become a joke...

Fuck heroin and fame

Edited May 2, 2015 by Strange Broue

[Towelie]

I can't be arsed to read most of the comments here as I only have a passing interest in Nirvana, but I've always felt Kurt Cobain came across very affected by himself, someone who very much believed his own hype with a very passive aggressive personality. I think he needed a good smack in the face.

If Axl Rose had shot himself in the mouth in 1994 instead of Kurt, I have no doubt Axl would have had the same accolades and hyperbole surrounding his legacy, and at least in his case some of it would be justified. Don't get me wrong, Kurt was good, but man, that suicide has done wonders in papering over the cracks of a guy who was essentially a pretty limited musician and songwriter.

[Tom2112]

I'm not going to reply to everything like you do (commendable), but I will talk about the music industry comment. Yes, music has been around for a long time and yes, the music industry as we know it today was mainly established in the early 50s (well it predates the 50s but it was obviously no way near as big). What I'm talking about and what Gene's talking about is the modern industry. So... for any band to say they don't care for money is ridiculous, every band needs money, no money means no way to get out and play music. It's cool to say it, "I'm in this for the music and the scene... I don't care about money" but in reality everybody wants to get paid and one day retire. Courtney (who, granted isn't the most reliable of sources) quoted Kurt saying "$2million dollars and I'll retire and become a junkie".

Like someone posted a few pages back, if the tables were turned and it was Axl that had died in 94' people like you would have a whole different opinion. People would talk about how ludicrous GnR became with the videos and the giant band / entourage, but they would also say a lot of the same things that are said about Kurt today, great song-writer, great frontman, troubled etc. I'm not trying to diminish Kurt Cobains contribution to music, I think he wrote some great songs (I don't think he wrote great albums though), I enjoy his voice, I think he was an entertaining performer when he was coherent.

*The bully comment came in around the point where they talk about the mentally challenged girl.

Kurt Cobain was not anti-money though, he just wasn't interested in being filthy rich. 'of course we wanna make a good living out of it' was a statement of his made around 91/92.

When did i say anything about GnR becoming ludicrous with videos and a giant band/entourage?

And the fact is Kurt Cobain was different, he didn't want money and to just retire, as evidenced by the fact that he shot himself in the face, had he wanted the money and a comfortable life of cash and riches it was there for him...clearly it wasn't that big a priority as within 2 years of having gained these riches he killed himself, kinda shows you exactly how much he valued that shit.

Or when the poor bastard of ODing in the back of his car having been dumped their by a dealer and been pottering around Seattle for days in the same clothes stinking of shit, you think this guy gave a fuck about money? Really?

He's either the troubled whiney wimp who shot himself cuz he couldn't handle life or he was the gluttonous money grubbing cynical shark that lived for money, he can't be both cuz were he the latter he would still be alive today having a very fine time enjoying his riches.

Was he lying? I think he made a statement about a lot of things when he shot himself and not giving a fuck about fame and money is a key one. Thats not to say it was at all a commendable act because i would do ANYTHING, ANYTHING to have that fuckin' boy walkin' the earth still, ANYTHING. Even if he didn't make music and just fuckin' was a total hermit, no amount of money or music or anything is worth one solitary human life, I'd rather rock n roll never existed if it meant that boy could still be around.

But alas..

I didn't say that you said anything about the videos, I said people would talk about the videos in the hypothetical scenario of Axl being the deceased and not Kurt.

How is Axl different to Kurt apart from Kurts death? Axl doesn't care about making money, if he did he could jump on stage tomorrow with the old band. If I saw one thing in that film it was that both guys are really alike, the main difference being Axl committed career suicide, while Kurt shot himself.

Kurt shot himself because he was depressed, that shows nothing more than he couldn't care less about living anymore... so that obviously includes the money, the band, his family and just about everything else. I'm not saying his goal in life was to make money, it was a goal but it wasn't high on his list and as he got further into his career I have no doubt that he would have gave it all away if it meant becoming the Kurt from before he was famous again, but the hard truth is he should have went and got help instead of self medicating, if he or any of the managers around him had any balls he would have been put in a rehab facility, given psyche evaluations and not been left to his own devices. Had people looked after him, and had he taken the correct steps it's likely we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Anyway! this whole debate is utterly silly, we could go on for days debating it. But the facts are, you're a full on Nirvana guy who also likes GnR, and I love GnR and like some Nirvana so were both completely biased and I don't think we're going to solve this non-issue anytime soon, but it was fun all the same

[dalsh327]

Kurt seemed to want to branch out and do other things, odds are he'd be involved in art galleries, writing books, screenplays, producing directing movies, and Nirvana would have been the way to financially cover doing all of those things. He couldn't hang in there, he shut down and wanted out. Some people are just tired when they want out of this world, they might not be angry and full of hate. They might just be tired of the burden of responsibility. There's a dream of being rich and famous and there's the reality of what that entails.

[LyndaRose]

Axl on Nirvana:
Q : Guns N' Roses are going on tour with Metallica this summer. I heard you've been trying to get Nirvana to join you and Kurt Cobain is saying no.

AXL : It's back and forth. I just think that they're having a lot of problems with who they are and who they want to be and trying to hold onto it at the same time. At least Kurt is. I'd like to be as supportive as I can, but I don't know how much he will allow support. To write a song like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" making fun of your songwriting and then have it used as an anthem has got to be a complete mindfuck. The man definitely has a mountain to rise above. I think there is a part of him that has the strength and desire to do it. I just don't know if he's able to get in touch with it. I had an advance copy of that record and it became my favorite. I would put it on repeatedly. Nirvana has helped me do my job. I think that the world has gotten really bored, really fed up and really pent up with frustration, and that comes through in Nirvana. I think a lot of people were aware of that feeling and he happened to find the song that touched it and was able to let that feeling out in people. And I'd like to do anything I can to support it. That's why we want them to play with us."

[Tom2112]

Axl on Nirvana:

Q : Guns N' Roses are going on tour with Metallica this summer. I heard you've been trying to get Nirvana to join you and Kurt Cobain is saying no.

AXL : It's back and forth. I just think that they're having a lot of problems with who they are and who they want to be and trying to hold onto it at the same time. At least Kurt is. I'd like to be as supportive as I can, but I don't know how much he will allow support. To write a song like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" making fun of your songwriting and then have it used as an anthem has got to be a complete mindfuck. The man definitely has a mountain to rise above. I think there is a part of him that has the strength and desire to do it. I just don't know if he's able to get in touch with it. I had an advance copy of that record and it became my favorite. I would put it on repeatedly. Nirvana has helped me do my job. I think that the world has gotten really bored, really fed up and really pent up with frustration, and that comes through in Nirvana. I think a lot of people were aware of that feeling and he happened to find the song that touched it and was able to let that feeling out in people. And I'd like to do anything I can to support it. That's why we want them to play with us."

Cool! I hadn't read that before... Or, I forgot about it!

Says it all really, I will never understand Cobains reaction towards Axl though, no matter how many people try to tell me Axl was the anthesis of Kurt.

What I read here is a guy who is a big fan of the band, offering a helping hand either publicly or not. Also, it's a guy who's going through a similar ride with his own band and he's willing to give the younger guy whatever wisdom he has gained through his own experience... so yeah... Axl? what an asshole!

[IncitingChaos]

Slash is the real jerk in this situation. He went on Howard Stern and said Guns N Roses would have survived Nirvana if they had kept going and that a lot of what Kurt said about Axl is true, so he feels Axl was wrong and is the reason for the feud.

Slash should just defend Axl

[wasted]

Overall, I respect the way Axl took the high road in this feud. No matter what you may think of one or the other as artists, clealry Axl comes across as the classier person, the bigger man if you will, in the context of this conflict.

Axl threatened Cobain in front of his wife and baby. Classy dude.

They were provoking him to say the least. But yeah Axl has a way with words.

But in regards to Slash he hasn't called him a lesbian fuck head or anything. A bunch of bad cops isn't that offensive.

I reread Serpico recently and I can definitely see where Axl was coming from when he made the self-comparison. Being the hero really makes you the villain when you survived such a treacherous sea of corruption. There's a hefty price to be paid for integrity.

You're the bad guy if you won't take the money like the rest of the dirty cops.

[tinyrobot]

Axl on Nirvana:Q : Guns N' Roses are going on tour with Metallica this summer. I heard you've been trying to get Nirvana to join you and Kurt Cobain is saying no.AXL : It's back and forth. I just think that they're having a lot of problems with who they are and who they want to be and trying to hold onto it at the same time. At least Kurt is. I'd like to be as supportive as I can, but I don't know how much he will allow support. To write a song like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" making fun of your songwriting and then have it used as an anthem has got to be a complete mindfuck. The man definitely has a mountain to rise above. I think there is a part of him that has the strength and desire to do it. I just don't know if he's able to get in touch with it. I had an advance copy of that record and it became my favorite. I would put it on repeatedly. Nirvana has helped me do my job. I think that the world has gotten really bored, really fed up and really pent up with frustration, and that comes through in Nirvana. I think a lot of people were aware of that feeling and he happened to find the song that touched it and was able to let that feeling out in people. And I'd like to do anything I can to support it. That's why we want them to play with us."

What a dumbass Kurt was... Really...

I love you, Axl

[shjtjustgotreal]

As Gene simmons said, any musician that pretends to not care about money is a liar and beware of that person.

Well then Genes a fucking moron, isn't he? Someone should point out to Gene that there's been music for as long as human history and there has only been an industry surrounding music which only really took off in terms of high profitability in the 50s.

Kurt talking about the mainstream with distain is hilarious! he was the mainstream, he made a record that the mainstream loved... which had a lot to do with the sound of the mix as well the songwriting (someone in the band made that call, to have a slick sounding record).

No, he JOINED the mainstream, he was not a creation of the mainstream, there was a Nirvana on Sub Pop in the late 80s touring Bleach across the world. And anyway, Kurt specifically stated that he LOVED pop music and wanted to make pop music and that pop music was his interest. New Wave too, which was like the commercial face of punk. So where you get these ideas i don't know. They left Sub Pop because, basically, they wanted to be heard and the way you get heard is by major label distribution, he explicitly stated this, ending with '99% of the rest of what goes on at mainstream record labels is a bunch of bullshit'.

And where does this notion come from that you have to be unattached to something to be qualified to criticise it, I would've thought an underground band that then went mainstream would be best qualified for such critique, having seen both sides of the coin.

Everybody talks about him not trying to be famous

Really? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Nirvana went out of their way to get a mainstream record label deal. Well out of their way, they courted that shit.

not having the know how to spin the media or create a cultivated image, but in the same sentence they talk about how smart this guy was.

So not being inclined towards spin-manipulation is equivalent to lacking intellect? Thats certainly a novel way of looking at it.

omg alan you depressive fuck this isnt a poetry appreciation group

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or even if you are talking to me, sorry

ya know, alan watts...

[Bono]

lol who gives two flying fucks what kurt had to say

I do cuz the man was a fuckin' champion and worth a million of anybody around nowadays. Certainly worth a million Axl Roses. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, he came up in an era of a million Axl Roses and uh...less said about the career of those Axl Roses after he came the better

I love Kurt Cobain and i will til my dying days. Champion lad. And just cuz we're on a GnR forum don't make the grass blue and the sky green.

Kurt Cobain was an overrated hypocrit. Claimed to be everything Pearl Jam was. He was a fuckin champion? How so? His music is simply ok, he really had nothing of value to say, he was a junkie, he whored himself out to the media despite saying how against it he was. How was this guy a champion? And just so we're clear my opinion on Cobain isn't in any way shape or form related to my opinion on Axl. I think that's pretty clear haha.

[Towelie]

Blimey! Bono has liked one of my replies! Is it a full moon??

Edited May 3, 2015 by Towelie

[wasted]

Although GNR was a dirtier and heavier version of what was in rock at the time, it wasn't as cathartic as Nirvana were on some songs. On songs like Sliver, Been a Son, About a Girl Kurt also showed he was a great song writer, not since Dylan had anyone so nonchantly written pop rock hits. Kind of like Izzy in a way. Also like Izzy he wasnt equipped to deal with or enjoy fame. Both have a cool aesthetic but that doesn't really translate in the media. Axl and Bono kind of know how to manipulate the media to communicate their main message. But regular guys who say shucks maybe we shouldn't be such assholes are seen as hypocrites. Kurts problem was he was seen as a spokesperson for a generation when he admittedly said he had no idea about life, he was kind of baffled generally.

[Len Cnut]

He was a fuckin champion? How so?

By virtue of being on the key musicians of his generation, by virtue of the fact that his music speaks to millions of people around the world, by virtue of winning the respect of his peers from people like Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen all the way down to young bands that are around nowadays, by virtue of his being called out as the de facto voice of his generation by virtue of the position he occupied in his time on his planet in the minds of a great many, by virtue of being a thoughtful and intelligent young man with a unique outlook that had the ability to convey that through music, I could go on all day really, would you like me to continue or shall i stop here?

Claimed to be everything Pearl Jam was.

If so that dont say much for Pearl Jam because Kurt didn't have an especially high opinion of himself in terms of what he claimed.

he really had nothing of value to say

You can't really claim that as a broad statement though can you because clearly he did because millions of people heard it and assimilated it and it effected their lives deeply. What you mean sir, is 'he really had nothing of value to say to ME', which would leave the issue more with your ears than Kurts ability to communicate or convey...or your ability to perceive value perhaps?

he was a junkie

Yes sir, he was.

he whored himself out to the media despite saying how against it he was.

Yes sir, he did that too.

How was this guy a champion?

You've asked that already.

And just so we're clear my opinion on Cobain isn't in any way shape or form related to my opinion on Axl. I think that's pretty clear haha.

Where'd that come from?

Can i just clarify, nothing I've expressed here at all, whatsoever has any bearing on my opinion on The Dave Matthews Band. In case anyones wondering!

Edited May 3, 2015 by Len B'stard

[majormayhem]

We love it when Axl speaks out against other musicians.............but hate it when other musicians speak out against Axl.

I never liked Nirvana's music, but give respect to the fact it did change the landscape of music at the time. Blame the mental illness all you want, but I have no respect for somebody who doesn't give up the drugs and chooses suicide when they have a child at homey when they have all the money and resources in the world at their disposal.

Manic depressives are at a high risk of suicide. 20% of bi polar attempt suicide. So it was on the cards.

I was going to caveat my statement but didn't want to clog up too much space. But I suppose I have to now. Being rich doesn't prevent people from depression. But if you have a couple million dollars in the bank and you don't have to work for a living - then you have access to the best treatment possible. Instead of going that route, cobain got hopped up on drugs and shot himself. He could have gotten the best medical help possible for drug addiction and for his depression. The average guy doesn't have those options.

Robin Williams killed himself. But he at least tried for years, for decades, to overcome his afflictions. I don't know Cobains back story, but it doesn't seem like he was seeking out help. I think when you have a wife and baby that you need to at least make an attempt to get help. Go to rehab and kick the drugs. Get help for your depression.

All you do is clog up space.

[dalsh327]

Courtney had a huge attraction to Axl.

[J Dog]

The way I view the situation, Kurt could be a huge cry baby when he wanted to. Axl could be a huge asshole when he wanted too. And they were both great for rock n roll.

[Val22]

Even after death, Kurt is still jealous of Axl and GNR.

I still say he should have shot Courtney first and then maybe he would have had time to change his mind about killing himself.

Not a fan of the depressed 90's music nor those bands. I'm so glad after 30 years, the 80's rock bands are still making music and still touring for their fans.

Rock music is meant to be fun. I have enough to worry about, don't want my music to depress me more.

And again I say, Kurt is dead and Axl Rose and GNR are still standing. Although I do like Dave G.

[Len Cnut]

Christ Almighty, the things pop music makes people say sometimes.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Nosaj Thing]

Even after death, Kurt is still jealous of Axl and GNR.

Kurt was never "jealous" of Axl. He simply disliked the guy for who he was.

Rock music is meant to be fun.

Says who?

And again I say, Kurt is dead and Axl Rose and GNR are still standing.

Kurt is dead, really? I didn't know. I never liked Nirvana's music, but I think Kurt would say that is better to be dead than being part of something like this: