Dear Fermanager,: A Retrospective

[downzy]

That's fine. I'm sure it will happen again.

And I'm sure you'll be there to tell us how terrible everything is

[Rustycage]

That's fine. I'm sure it will happen again.

And I'm sure you'll be there to tell us how terrible everything is

Nah. I think it's funny every time mods try to suck up to the GNR camp and end up learning the hard way.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Rustycage

[downzy]

That's fine. I'm sure it will happen again.

And I'm sure you'll be there to tell us how terrible everything is

Nah. I think it's funny every time mods try to suck up to the GNR camp and end up learning the hard way.

Nobody is sucking up to the GNR camp. It's been explicitly stated to both Fernando and Beta that this forum will always allow open criticism of the band. That will never change. If they're not fine with that, then there's nothing I can do.

[DieselDaisy]

Now you're just lying.

Go take a look again. A lot of it went down while Fernando was still somewhat active and before his first departure. Usually before every single "he's just here for casual talk guys." post.

Nope. Almost every post removed over the past two days were removed because of members sniping each other back and forward, clogging up the thread... Pretty much every post directed to Fernando that expressed their frustration or criticism was left alone.

The past two days?

The past two days that topic has been dead. Do you really think the criticism here is only about the past 48 hours?

Fine, the posts removed prior to Fernando's departure included content like "everyone running GNR are stupid people," comments about pubic hair, TheSeeker's comment that the band and the thread is worthless, a GingerPubes remark, a thousand questions from Miser, comments like "speak or get the fuck out." questions about banned forum members, and a whole lot more sniping between members that was clogging up the forum.

We left all criticisms of the band so long as they weren't rude or offensive.

Oh shit, I think I created that one. I mean it must be a hideous sight to wake up in the morning, remove your boxers and have Chris Evans staring back at you!!

But when is he going to drop this torrent we are all waiting for?

[maynard]

Seriously guys, Fernando and lolGNR should be glad this place exists, that there are fans who actually care about Axl's version of GNR. We, including mags, are actually really nice to them. A quick check on FB comments related to GNR proves my point.

It's a Brazilian thing to have this feeling everyone is a "hater", that making fun of Brazil turns you into a racist, etc. I know, I live here. Fernando probably spent his life in America but he has this stupid Brazilian inferiority complex thing on him. Add to that Axl's way of life: GET ON BOARD OR FUCK OFF and we have an extremely difficult "band" to deal with.

This hate thing that the internet created sometimes really pisses me off. I don't know, if Fernando actually spent some time here, it should be more than clear to him that all the negativity is the result of frustration. Then he comes here using words like "hatred", "sad", etc. Seriously, "f*** off!" is the first thing that comes to mind. It's like there's this new guy around who doesn't get the jokes, doesn't really fit in and looks like he has some privileges.

I get the mods' side, I really do. And I do think their intention is to open a channel between GNR and the fans but I think this is beyond their power.

At this point, what I can say is:

- Bring back mags.

- Fernando is a grown man, and I hope he's intelligent enough to realize there's much more hate among the casual fans who 'like' their FB page than a community that's barely about GNR anymore.

- Sometimes a passive-aggressive jab like "lol, sad" is much worse than a direct FUCK YOU, a fuck you sounds less coward.

[IncitingChaos]

I feel bad for Magisme...I don't know him very well but I get his importance to the community. He doesn't seem interested in the band anymore, but he comes here everyday to keep conversations going and in some ways works hard to keep it relevant for fans still excited.

I've seen him get genuinely excited about You're Crazy at the bowling alley gig, and Prostitute last year. I think he even bought a 3d blu Ray from the vegas gig for a fan here. He also dishes out fair criticism. In my opinion he's one of the few sane fans left. But he cares about the community more than the band. It's unfortionate GNR doesn't have management that could do the same.

(I know there are a lot of important members here who keep this place alive! And many who have left, but I'm just speaking on Mags cause apparently he's been outcast here for in my opinion rightfully calling out management)

[ManetsBR]

Seriously guys, Fernando and lolGNR should be glad this place exists, that there are fans who actually care about Axl's version of GNR. We, including mags, are actually really nice to them. A quick check on FB comments related to GNR proves my point.

It's a Brazilian thing to have this feeling everyone is a "hater", that making fun of Brazil turns you into a racist, etc. I know, I live here. Fernando probably spent his life in America but he has this stupid Brazilian inferiority complex thing on him. Add to that Axl's way of life: GET ON BOARD OR FUCK OFF and we have an extremely difficult "band" to deal with.

This hate thing that the internet created sometimes really pisses me off. I don't know, if Fernando actually spent some time here, it should be more than clear to him that all the negativity is the result of frustration. Then he comes here using words like "hatred", "sad", etc. Seriously, "f*** off!" is the first thing that comes to mind. It's like there's this new guy around who doesn't get the jokes, doesn't really fit in and looks like he has some privileges.

I get the mods' side, I really do. And I do think their intention is to open a channel between GNR and the fans but I think this is beyond their power.

At this point, what I can say is:

- Bring back mags.

- Fernando is a grown man, and I hope he's intelligent enough to realize there's much more hate among the casual fans who 'like' their FB page than a community that's barely about GNR anymore.

- Sometimes a passive-aggressive jab like "lol, sad" is much worse than a direct FUCK YOU, a fuck you sounds less coward.

Agreed in everything. We hear multiple times how the "hardcore fanbase is problematic for GNR", are you kidding??? Of course the "softcore fanbase" is easy to deal with, the vast majority of the people who buy tickets to the concerts are not stupid idiots like us who spend all that time thinking about this stupid band. The vast majority don't bother GNR and TB with questions because well, they don't give a shit. AT ALL. If those are the fans they'd rather have - the ones that don't "complain, complain, complain", the ones that don't even care enough to say so - I'd like to know.

[downzy]

- Bring back mags.

- Fernando is a grown man, and I hope he's intelligent enough to realize there's much more hate among the casual fans who 'like' their FB page than a community that's barely about GNR anymore.

- Sometimes a passive-aggressive jab like "lol, sad" is much worse than a direct FUCK YOU, a fuck you sounds less coward.

I'm assuming you haven't read through the last ten pages of this thread because most of your post has already been explained. But to address your points:

- Mags is welcomed to post here whenever he wants. His one day suspension was yesterday. If he doesn't post here anymore that's a result of his own decision, not ours.

- Fernando is well aware and understands the negativity and criticisms that get expressed here and elsewhere. He's expressed this publicly and privately.

- Regardless of your own personal understanding, the rules state fairly clearly that we do not accept belligerent and hostile language directed at anyway. Moreover, I specifically warned people not to refrain from telling people to fuck off within the Fernando thread. Finally, it wasn't just telling Fernando to fuck off, calling him a leach also violated the rules.

I feel bad for Magisme...I don't know him very well but I get his importance to the community. He doesn't seem interested in the band anymore, but he comes here everyday to keep conversations going and in some ways works hard to keep it relevant for fans still excited.

I've seen him get genuinely excited about You're Crazy at the bowling alley gig, and Prostitute last year. I think he even bought a 3d blu Ray from the vegas gig for a fan here. He also dishes out fair criticism. In my opinion he's one of the few sane fans left. But he cares about the community more than the band. It's unfortionate GNR doesn't have management that could do the same.

(I know there are a lot of important members here who keep this place alive! And many who have left, but I'm just speaking on Mags cause apparently he's been outcast here for in my opinion rightfully calling out management)

See my points above. I like Mags as well and enjoy his posts. But Mags has not been outcast. He's decided himself not to return because he doesn't agree with the actions taken. Fine, his choice. I would hope he comes back. But let's not forget the fact of the matter that we gave a warning to everyone that specifically asked not to tell other people off. He chose to disregard it. As I've said before, I don't care if you're a fan, a member of management, or Axl Rose himself: belligerent and insulting comments are not welcomed here. If you can't make your point without insulting someone else, you're not welcomed here.

Seriously guys, Fernando and lolGNR should be glad this place exists, that there are fans who actually care about Axl's version of GNR. We, including mags, are actually really nice to them. A quick check on FB comments related to GNR proves my point.

It's a Brazilian thing to have this feeling everyone is a "hater", that making fun of Brazil turns you into a racist, etc. I know, I live here. Fernando probably spent his life in America but he has this stupid Brazilian inferiority complex thing on him. Add to that Axl's way of life: GET ON BOARD OR FUCK OFF and we have an extremely difficult "band" to deal with.

This hate thing that the internet created sometimes really pisses me off. I don't know, if Fernando actually spent some time here, it should be more than clear to him that all the negativity is the result of frustration. Then he comes here using words like "hatred", "sad", etc. Seriously, "f*** off!" is the first thing that comes to mind. It's like there's this new guy around who doesn't get the jokes, doesn't really fit in and looks like he has some privileges.

I get the mods' side, I really do. And I do think their intention is to open a channel between GNR and the fans but I think this is beyond their power.

At this point, what I can say is:

- Bring back mags.

- Fernando is a grown man, and I hope he's intelligent enough to realize there's much more hate among the casual fans who 'like' their FB page than a community that's barely about GNR anymore.

- Sometimes a passive-aggressive jab like "lol, sad" is much worse than a direct FUCK YOU, a fuck you sounds less coward.

Agreed in everything. We hear multiple times how the "hardcore fanbase is problematic for GNR", are you kidding??? Of course the "softcore fanbase" is easy to deal with, the vast majority of the people who buy tickets to the concerts are not stupid idiots like us who spend all that time thinking about this stupid band. The vast majority don't bother GNR and TB with questions because well, they don't give a shit. AT ALL. If those are the fans they'd rather have - the ones that don't "complain, complain, complain", the ones that don't even care enough to say so - I'd like to know.

I do agree that the hard core fan base deserves a little more respect than it has been given over the years. I don't, however, necessarily think management and Axl views us as the enemy. It's important to remember that that narrative isn't one that is sourced directly from a band member or a manager. That concept was first put forward by MSL many years ago when he was interviewed as a result of leaking Shacklers' Revenge. Maybe that was the case a while back, but my read on things now is that they understand the difference between criticisms based on frustration and disappointment and outright hostility.

The reality is that as big as a band as GNR is, it still needs its hardcore fanbase when it comes time to getting the word out about new music and shows. Much like in politics, it's the hardcore faithful who are your foot soldiers willing to go the extra mile to support you. We're the ones that would likely be calling up radio DJs requesting the new GNR track, pushing our friends to attend GNR concerts, buying multiple copies, paying extra for meet and greets and paying for merchandise. We may not represent a large portion of the overall fanbase, but we do represent a large percentage of the overall energy behind the band. It's why we still get a million page views and between 70-100k unique visitors a month to this forum. That's a group of people you want to take care of when the time comes to mobilize the troops. I do think management sees that in a way that perhaps they did not a while ago.

[tomfriend]

Downzy, I'm not block quoting everything again but your post entirely sidesteps the fact that the language used by board members only became an issue the moment there was a member of band management (or whatever the hell Fernando's title is - I don't even know) came by to suck up to.If Fernando chooses to come here, why do the rules of what 'here' is suddenly have to be changed to accomodate him? And do me a favour and don't pretend that on any other day of the year those posts wouldn't have escaped deletion. A quick skim of my, Mags or numerous others posting history's will prove otherwise.Board members true opinions and otherwise commonly accepted expressions being censored to appease the powers that be is why HTGTH has died on it's ass. This is the exact same thing.If Fernando comes here, he should get MyGNRForum. He should see the same frustration and resentment that this band has gone out of it's way to foster that's here every other day. Why the hell should we have to pretend otherwise? Red carpet treatment for him, meanwhile you sweep the thoughts of longterm community members under it. Pretty clear where your priorities lie.

Because we asked people to be more polite in that particular thread, pretty much as we have always done in Canter Banter and for the most part people have always accepted and abided by that. We were asking the same thing of Fernando's thread.

Marc Canter doesn't talk about fans in a consistently disrespectful way. Marc Canter isn't part of the regime of 'complaints, complaints, complaints' and 'get on board or fuck off'. Marc Canter didn't promise 2-3 new songs on the last tour. Marc Canter has no culpability in the disappointing directionless mess that this band has become.

Canter is treated with the respect that he has earned and continues to earn.

Put it this way. The posts about TB that I and others were making were deemed perfectly acceptable 2 weeks ago. A member of TB shows up in our yard, suddenly those same posts are unacceptable because we're saying them to their face. It's like being in high school to be honest. "I hate Jennifer, here's why, she does this and this and this..." "Shhhh, Jennifer's behind you" "Oh hi Jennifer! Love your hair!"

People have been censored for merely giving an honest representation of themselves, the fanbase and the forum, as it is 364 days of the year when Fermanager isn't around to bestow his mighty and holy presence upon us.

Edited August 14, 2015 by tomfriend

[DR DOOM]

I didn't ask Fernando any questions because I know he wouldn't (couldn't) answer them anyway...stuff like when's the next album coming out, will it have Ron and Frank all over it etc etc.

I just don't see the point in being a cock to the guy or asking questions you know he won't be able to answer.

[tomfriend]

I didn't ask Fernando any questions because I know he wouldn't (couldn't) answer them anyway...stuff like when's the next album coming out, will it have Ron and Frank all over it etc etc. I just don't see the point in being a cock to the guy or asking questions you know he won't be able to answer.

Speaking for myself personally, I've made no secret of my feelings towards TB and any member who's spent much time in the Guns section has likely seen them. I don't just hurl abuse, I back up my points and serve the whole thing in the tone I feel it deserves. That has been fine, up until the point that I get the chance to actually say these things to someone involved and perhaps hear what they have to say in response....then suddenly my tone is inappropriate and my post is deleted. A rare opportunity to have our true thoughts and feelings on Guns known to management and we're told we have to modify those thoughts and 'play nice' like they're fragile little darlings who can't handle what they themselves have sown.

Next time why not just PM everyone a list of preapproved questions and we all get to ask one?

Edited August 14, 2015 by tomfriend

[Padme]

If someone is called a leach, incompetent or whatever that person has the right and it´s given the opportunity to defend himself. And Fernando has that same right. Instead of defending himself. However his reactions and his posts are things like "lol. sad" or "train of hatred"

It would be better for him and us if he could explain with examples or evidence that he is not a leach neither a yes man if those comments and perceptions people have are not true. So he put an end to that. At the same time he will change the opinions fans have about him.

So far all he has accomplished is nothing but confirmation that we are right. So we all keep thinking he is incompetent, unprofessional and many other things that had been said about him over the years.

He has to address these issues because this stuff is about him and not about new music or band members. He can´t give us news? Fine, I understand we are not Eddie Trunk nor RS magazine. But when we question him about himself, his role and his job he should be able to answer that in a proper manner.

[DR DOOM]

I didn't ask Fernando any questions because I know he wouldn't (couldn't) answer them anyway...stuff like when's the next album coming out, will it have Ron and Frank all over it etc etc. I just don't see the point in being a cock to the guy or asking questions you know he won't be able to answer.

Speaking for myself personally, I've made no secret of my feelings towards TB and any member who's spent much time in the Guns section has likely seen them. I don't just hurl abuse, I back up my points and serve the whole thing in the tone I feel it deserves. That has been fine, up until the point that I get the chance to actually say these things to someone involved and perhaps hear what they have to say in response....then suddenly my tone is inappropriate and my post is deleted. A rare opportunity to have our true thoughts and feelings on Guns known to management and we're told we have to modify those thoughts and 'play nice' like they're fragile little darlings who can't handle what they themselves have sown.

Next time why not just PM everyone a list of preapproved questions and we all get to ask one?

Fair enough man, I think you're a good poster here and as far as I can recall I tend to agree with a lot of your posts.

I saw one post (edit: don't think it was one of yours) that said something along the lines of "hey Fernando, why are you ruining the band?"...that's the sort of post I was talking about.

Edited August 14, 2015 by DR DOOM

[tomfriend]

The fan environment the band wants to foster has been clear for a long time. The kind that never have the temerity to ask about a new album or for any info. The kind that are awestruck at the notion of paying a mere $25 to be in with a chance of perhaps winning a belt buckle or speaking to Dizzy Reed, a man who in all likelihood has even less of an idea about what's going on than we do.

They and everyone associated with them are towering God-beings (right up until the point they leave the band of course - then they don't even merit a footnote) and we are mere sub-mortals who should be jizzing with ecstasy if one of their associates' associates' associates even deigns to acknowledge our existence. In asking us to give Fernando (not a band member, mind you, but Fernando!) special treatment this board, which has always been the antithesis of the overly reverent kowtowing nonsense found elsewhere, plays right into that idea.

[SoulMonster]

I don't think that is clear at all. I interpret it vastly different than you. A fan forum where people are allowed to be critical, ask critical questions, be positive, ask positive questions, but not to antagonize other members through direct attacks and offensive language, may not suit all but it sounds like a good idea to me. Granted, if you are unable to be constructive and are only here to be offensive, then you might not like it, but conjuring mygrnforum to be some servile place where everybody is happy with whatever happens, where Fernando is treated like a god, is just plain ridiculous. You are overexaggerating. Chill. You are only being asked not to be jerks. I assume this isn't the first time where that happens. Is that really so hard for you?

[DieselDaisy]

The fan environment the band wants to foster has been clear for a long time. The kind that never have the temerity to ask about a new album or for any info. The kind that are awestruck at the notion of paying a mere $25 to be in with a chance of perhaps winning a belt buckle or speaking to Dizzy Reed, a man who in all likelihood has even less of an idea about what's going on than we do.

They and everyone associated with them are towering God-beings (right up until the point they leave the band of course - then they don't even merit a footnote) and we are mere sub-mortals who should be jizzing with ecstasy if one of their associates' associates' associates even deigns to acknowledge our existence. In asking us to give Fernando (not a band member, mind you, but Fernando!) special treatment this board, which has always been the antithesis of the overly reverent kowtowing nonsense found elsewhere, plays right into that idea.

Thing is if you look at Axl, he is a guy unable to deal with any criticism whatsoever. Axl has his 'friends' and 'enemies' list. For Axl there are no grey areas: you are either for him or against him. He is prone to acting extremely childish if someone calls him out, throwing his toys about his pram while shitting his nappy. He also has these periods of extreme inactivity and communication breakdown.

Does this all sound familiar? Team Brazil anyone? This stuff all predates Team Brazil. Axl was doing this stuff when Goldstein was managing. I mean Del James and Dizzy Reed were basically 'Axl Rose sycophants' before Axl had met this Brazilian nanny and her extended family.

Team Brazil's modus operandi is Axl's modus operandi. They are only as incompetent, uncommunicative and unpleasant as their boss is. I suppose Axl finally obtained the management he always desired.

[ChineseIRS]

I don't think that is clear at all. I interpret it vastly different than you. A fan forum where people are allowed to be critical, ask critical questions, be positive, ask positive questions, but not to antagonize other members through direct attacks and offensive language, may not suit all but it sounds like a good idea to me. Granted, if you are unable to be constructive and are only here to be offensive, then you might not like it, but conjuring mygrnforum to be some servile place where everybody is happy with whatever happens, where Fernando is treated like a god, is just plain ridiculous. You are overexaggerating. Chill. You are only being asked not to be jerks. I assume this isn't the first time where that happens. Is that really so hard for you?

This.

[Intercourse]

For me its down to this:

- Time & experience has shown us that guys like Niven who stood up to and called out Axl can't be allowed into GNR.

- Whether people like it or not, Axl deeply values the care & friendship Beta has given him. Hiring her and her son as your managers may strike some as stunningly naive and dangerous for both parties involved but the band GNR continued much in the same way under their charge as it did under Goldstein and others so in context of dealing with Axl & GNR they appear as good as anybody else, if not better. This may only be true in the current form of GNR but not if the old band reunited. We will never know.

- To be fair to fans, Fernando lucked his way into the life he now leads and the job he does, that's not to say that he may now more than earn his stripes as a manager in terms of the amount of work he does to keep Axl the way Axl wants BUT he should expect his abilities & skills to be challenged and even mocked because of the extraordinary position he found himself in (a boy living in the world's most famous rock star's house) and how he has capitalised upon it. He didn't fight his way up through bars and clubs with the band or really serve any kind of apprenticeship in the industry. You'll find that most people who come up as he does encounter just as much shit from the rest of those stuck in the trenches.

Its sad to see people getting suspended over such a mostly meaningless encounter with this man but I do agree that manners cost nothing and a good forum should be just that, a place where all opinions are allowed and respected if expressed in a respectful manner.

[HubbaBubba]

"You are not entitled to your own facts"

"Find somewhere else to post"

These two remarks, both in this thread, could've come straight from the two shittest gnr sites out there (we know which ones).

The way things went down in the Fernando thread is a real concern. The Canter point is well made.

If Fernando comes to mygnr and the majority of people post insults or generally disrespectful bullshit in his thread, that would be because the majority of people don't respect him.

The thread should be left alone. People visit mygnr because they are fans of guns. The fans posted shit in his thread because they don't like what guns has become. Why sugarcoat it for their fucking manager?

[G-Money]

Took me a while just to figure out who he was. Seemed like major P.R. with B.S. sprinkled on top. Though I'm not sure what else he can safely say at this point. The fans need to hear from Axl... and not about a tiger being hunted or some foreign President's drug policy.

[RussTCB]

"You are not entitled to your own facts"

"Find somewhere else to post"

These two remarks, both in this thread, could've come straight from the two shittest gnr sites out there (we know which ones).

The way things went down in the Fernando thread is a real concern. The Canter point is well made.

If Fernando comes to mygnr and the majority of people post insults or generally disrespectful bullshit in his thread, that would be because the majority of people don't respect him.

The thread should be left alone. People visit mygnr because they are fans of guns. The fans posted shit in his thread because they don't like what guns has become. Why sugarcoat it for their fucking manager?

That's the thing though.... there's no "majority of posts". I did a breakdown of the first 30 pages of the D&N Fernando thread a couple pages back. There was only something like 25 posts removed/hidden in 30 pages, most of which were posters breaking the rules by insulting each other.

[alfierose]

"You are not entitled to your own facts"

"Find somewhere else to post"

These two remarks, both in this thread, could've come straight from the two shittest gnr sites out there (we know which ones).

The way things went down in the Fernando thread is a real concern. The Canter point is well made.

If Fernando comes to mygnr and the majority of people post insults or generally disrespectful bullshit in his thread, that would be because the majority of people don't respect him.

The thread should be left alone. People visit mygnr because they are fans of guns. The fans posted shit in his thread because they don't like what guns has become. Why sugarcoat it for their fucking manager?

That's the thing though.... there's no "majority of posts". I did a breakdown of the first 30 pages of the D&N Fernando thread a couple pages back. There was only something like 25 posts removed/hidden in 30 pages, most of which were posters breaking the rules by insulting each other.

I think it's also worth pointing out that if you notice a post disappear (in any thread) it's not always a mod. Last night I counted upwards of 40 posts deleted from the Fermanager thread by the authors of the post who clearly just changed their mind for whatever reason.

[downzy]

If someone is called a leach, incompetent or whatever that person has the right and it´s given the opportunity to defend himself. And Fernando has that same right. Instead of defending himself. However his reactions and his posts are things like "lol. sad" or "train of hatred"

It would be better for him and us if he could explain with examples or evidence that he is not a leach neither a yes man if those comments and perceptions people have are not true. So he put an end to that. At the same time he will change the opinions fans have about him.

Sorry, but your point is utterly ridiculous. If someone calls you an asshole, should we allow it if they provide evidence?

That's not what I want for this forum. Personal insults are not allowed. Period. If you can't make your point without personally attacking someone, please do not make it at all.

The fan environment the band wants to foster has been clear for a long time. The kind that never have the temerity to ask about a new album or for any info. The kind that are awestruck at the notion of paying a mere $25 to be in with a chance of perhaps winning a belt buckle or speaking to Dizzy Reed, a man who in all likelihood has even less of an idea about what's going on than we do.

They and everyone associated with them are towering God-beings (right up until the point they leave the band of course - then they don't even merit a footnote) and we are mere sub-mortals who should be jizzing with ecstasy if one of their associates' associates' associates even deigns to acknowledge our existence. In asking us to give Fernando (not a band member, mind you, but Fernando!) special treatment this board, which has always been the antithesis of the overly reverent kowtowing nonsense found elsewhere, plays right into that idea.

Nobody is asking you to give Fernando special treatment. We're simply asking members from refraining from personal attacks/insults and telling him off. The same applies to him in regards to everyone else.

[wasted]

I had a question.

[DieselDaisy]

''Personal insults not allowed'', on a Guns N' Roses forum? Isn't this the same band who littered their songs with expletives? Ever heard of Get in the Ring or One In A Million?