Richard Fortus is immensely overrated

[Tom2112]

Listen to the second Dead Daisies album and listen to his lead parts and THEN come back and tell us he's nothing special.

I suppose people like Slash, Bowie or Trent Reznor must be tone-deaf for thinking he's special too.

Slash - music legend. Bowie - music legend. Reznor - music legend. All like Fortus.

Dude on internet that doesn't play instrument thinks nothing special. Fortus must suck.

Seems legit.

It's called having an opinion. Sorry I forgot I'm not allowed to have one cause you said so.

The problem is Miser you are talking about the specifics of music and/or the playing of a musical instrument and the styles therein without very much knowledge of understanding of that stuff...and in some instances with people who are quite profficient with said instrument by all accounts (meaning Axlisold), it's sort of like the difference between a half baked opinion and knowing what you are talking about.

I know this because I fall into your category too I can say very broad sweeping general things about music and musical styles and sounds but I'm not gonna get into guitar specifics with someone like Axlisold because he has the ability to probably make me look a cunt when discussing such things, cuz he knows what he's talking about and i don't

But I don't think one needs to be a guitar wiz to have their ears determine if they think someone is good or not.

Take Bumblefoot. He's an amazingly skilled guitarist by technical and guitar player accounts. Some of the best guitarists in the world like Joe Satriani have spoken of his talent. Yet, just because someone is either technically good, or because their "more well-informed peers" praise them, that doesn't mean they're necessarily objectively good or that I have to like them. With Fortus it's similar. Is he an okay guitarist? Yeah, sure, makes for a nice rhythm player. But I think because of the horrible quality of some of the post-1996 guitarists like Robin Finck or Ashba, Richard's greatness is exaggerated. I don't care that Slash praised Fortus, because Slash also thinks Fergie is a great artist and thought Eric Dover was a good enough singer to cut a record with. Even musicians' sentiments are fallible, even if they technically "know more" than me. I think Fortus is good at being what he is: An Izzy look-alike and a session player. But not a great guitarist overall.

Fortus replaced Tobias who replaced Gilby who replaced Izzy. He's so far removed from the original band that there's no trauma associated to him; if anything he was an improvement.

But then, why was there no trauma with Bumble or Ashba? Both of those guys were pretty far removed from the original band, and Bumble is objectively a good player too, even if I dislike him and his music as well.

He might not be a great songwriter (yet to be seen) but he is a great player. He has excellent timing, bending intonation, feel, and general musicality. A not so great / average player has an awareness of these things but hasn't really grasped them, or really tried to nail them down (DJ).

I don't want to pull the "I play guitar, so I know better" card as I respect that some guitar players don't do it for some people. For me he ticks all the boxes of what I consider a really good guitar player, your criteria is gonna be different.

It sounds small, and maybe not that impressive (if you don't know what to look for) but I think if you watch him setting up the intro to You're crazy you'll hear a great example of something that sounds effortless, but is actually one of the hardest things to do. A great player for me is the player that does all the "simple" things well, 'timing, bending, knowing when to, and when not to play etc."

Just listen to the guy, he's a fabulous player. I can't believe we're discussing him, DJ, Robin, Tobias? yeah I understood where people were coming from with those guys, but Richard is head and shoulders above them all as a player (not talking about songwriting ability).

[Rovim]

He might not be a great songwriter (yet to be seen) but he is a great player. He has excellent timing, bending intonation, feel, and general musicality. A not so great / average player has an awareness of these things but hasn't really grasped them, or really tried to nail them down (DJ).

I don't want to pull the "I play guitar, so I know better" card as I respect that some guitar players don't do it for some people. For me he ticks all the boxes of what I consider a really good guitar player, your criteria is gonna be different.

It sounds small, and maybe not that impressive (if you don't know what to look for) but I think if you watch him setting up the intro to You're crazy you'll hear a great example of something that sounds effortless, but is actually one of the hardest things to do. A great player for me is the player that does all the "simple" things well, 'timing, bending, knowing when to, and when not to play etc."

Just listen to the guy, he's a fabulous player. I can't believe we're discussing him, DJ, Robin, Tobias? yeah I understood where people were coming from with those guys, but Richard is head and shoulders above them all as a player (not talking about songwriting ability).

And Bucket is head and shoulders above Richard. Which is why they went with him. He's got that x factor as a lead player. Robin has that too, and he doesn't have Richard's chops and is sloppy.

I think the way Richard plays You're Crazy is a very good example of why he should be in Guns. It sounds right. And I know we didn't get a chance to hear what he can bring to the table as a songwriter, but his chorus riff in Better is great.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Rovim

[Dr. Who]

You dont need to be a guitar wizard no...knowing what you're talking about helps tho!

So, should I bow down and worship Joe Satriani cause he's good at the instrument?

Songwriting is what counts. I don't give a shit if you're the greatest guitarist who ever lived if you haven't written shit to prove it.

Or is this another one of AxlisOld's "I hate Miser and so does my wife so let's just be contradictory at every fucking turn" horseshit? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

He might not be a great songwriter (yet to be seen) but he is a great player. He has excellent timing, bending intonation, feel, and general musicality. A not so great / average player has an awareness of these things but hasn't really grasped them, or really tried to nail them down (DJ).

I don't want to pull the "I play guitar, so I know better" card as I respect that some guitar players don't do it for some people. For me he ticks all the boxes of what I consider a really good guitar player, your criteria is gonna be different.

It sounds small, and maybe not that impressive (if you don't know what to look for) but I think if you watch him setting up the intro to You're crazy you'll hear a great example of something that sounds effortless, but is actually one of the hardest things to do. A great player for me is the player that does all the "simple" things well, 'timing, bending, knowing when to, and when not to play etc."

Just listen to the guy, he's a fabulous player. I can't believe we're discussing him, DJ, Robin, Tobias? yeah I understood where people were coming from with those guys, but Richard is head and shoulders above them all as a player (not talking about songwriting ability).

And Bucket is head and shoulders above Richard. Which is why they went with him. He's got that x factor as a lead player. Robin has that too, and he doesn't have Richard's chops and is sloppy.

I think the way Richard plays You're Crazy is a very good example of why he should be in Guns. It sounds right. And I know we didn't get a chance to hear what he can bring to the table as a songwriter, but his chorus riff in Better is great.

But see, that's it right there. Richard is good because he plays You're Crazy well. Well, I respect and appreciate more the guy who wrote You're Crazy rather than the guy who just performs it well - that to me is what defines whether a guitarist is good or not. Not whether they can bend strings six ways from Sunday or sing in whistle register or not. That's just theoretical nonsense to me.

Chuck Berry and Keith Richards, they're not really great guitarist, and there's guys who are way more technically proficient at the axe than Jimmy Page - but has say, Joe Satriani really contributed more to music or to the guitar, than Chuck Berry, Keith or Jimmy Page?

It's the same argument for Richard. Richard might have some good technical skill. But if we're setting how well he can cover Slash and Izzy's parts as the bar of what makes him a good guitarist or fit for Guns - that's an incredibly low bar. When he writes a song as good as Welcome to the Jungle, or records a solo as good as TWAT's, let me know.

[Len Cnut]

You dont need to be a guitar wizard no...knowing what you're talking about helps tho!

So, should I bow down and worship Joe Satriani cause he's good at the instrument?

Songwriting is what counts. I don't give a shit if you're the greatest guitarist who ever lived if you haven't written shit to prove it.

Or is this another one of AxlisOld's "I hate Miser and so does my wife so let's just be contradictory at every fucking turn" horseshit? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

He might not be a great songwriter (yet to be seen) but he is a great player. He has excellent timing, bending intonation, feel, and general musicality. A not so great / average player has an awareness of these things but hasn't really grasped them, or really tried to nail them down (DJ).

I don't want to pull the "I play guitar, so I know better" card as I respect that some guitar players don't do it for some people. For me he ticks all the boxes of what I consider a really good guitar player, your criteria is gonna be different.

It sounds small, and maybe not that impressive (if you don't know what to look for) but I think if you watch him setting up the intro to You're crazy you'll hear a great example of something that sounds effortless, but is actually one of the hardest things to do. A great player for me is the player that does all the "simple" things well, 'timing, bending, knowing when to, and when not to play etc."

Just listen to the guy, he's a fabulous player. I can't believe we're discussing him, DJ, Robin, Tobias? yeah I understood where people were coming from with those guys, but Richard is head and shoulders above them all as a player (not talking about songwriting ability).

And Bucket is head and shoulders above Richard. Which is why they went with him. He's got that x factor as a lead player. Robin has that too, and he doesn't have Richard's chops and is sloppy.

I think the way Richard plays You're Crazy is a very good example of why he should be in Guns. It sounds right. And I know we didn't get a chance to hear what he can bring to the table as a songwriter, but his chorus riff in Better is great.

But see, that's it right there. Richard is good because he plays You're Crazy well. Well, I respect and appreciate more the guy who wrote You're Crazy rather than the guy who just performs it well - that to me is what defines whether a guitarist is good or not. Not whether they can bend strings six ways from Sunday or sing in whistle register or not. That's just theoretical nonsense to me.

Well if songwriting is what counts go fuckin' argue the toss with some fucking songwriters, the guitar was no designed for the sole purpose of writing Beatle songs, dunno if you noticed.

No one cares what you do or dont give a shit about, the question is about a topic, the topic is based on a reality, whats going on in your head in terms of what you do or dont give a shit about is a matter for you and your therapist.

And whats Axlisold and his wifes opinion about you got to do with me?

[Dr. Who]

You dont need to be a guitar wizard no...knowing what you're talking about helps tho!

So, should I bow down and worship Joe Satriani cause he's good at the instrument?

Songwriting is what counts. I don't give a shit if you're the greatest guitarist who ever lived if you haven't written shit to prove it.

Or is this another one of AxlisOld's "I hate Miser and so does my wife so let's just be contradictory at every fucking turn" horseshit? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

He might not be a great songwriter (yet to be seen) but he is a great player. He has excellent timing, bending intonation, feel, and general musicality. A not so great / average player has an awareness of these things but hasn't really grasped them, or really tried to nail them down (DJ).

I don't want to pull the "I play guitar, so I know better" card as I respect that some guitar players don't do it for some people. For me he ticks all the boxes of what I consider a really good guitar player, your criteria is gonna be different.

It sounds small, and maybe not that impressive (if you don't know what to look for) but I think if you watch him setting up the intro to You're crazy you'll hear a great example of something that sounds effortless, but is actually one of the hardest things to do. A great player for me is the player that does all the "simple" things well, 'timing, bending, knowing when to, and when not to play etc."

Just listen to the guy, he's a fabulous player. I can't believe we're discussing him, DJ, Robin, Tobias? yeah I understood where people were coming from with those guys, but Richard is head and shoulders above them all as a player (not talking about songwriting ability).

And Bucket is head and shoulders above Richard. Which is why they went with him. He's got that x factor as a lead player. Robin has that too, and he doesn't have Richard's chops and is sloppy.

I think the way Richard plays You're Crazy is a very good example of why he should be in Guns. It sounds right. And I know we didn't get a chance to hear what he can bring to the table as a songwriter, but his chorus riff in Better is great.

But see, that's it right there. Richard is good because he plays You're Crazy well. Well, I respect and appreciate more the guy who wrote You're Crazy rather than the guy who just performs it well - that to me is what defines whether a guitarist is good or not. Not whether they can bend strings six ways from Sunday or sing in whistle register or not. That's just theoretical nonsense to me.

Well if songwriting is what counts go fuckin' argue the toss with some fucking songwriters, the guitar was no designed for the sole purpose of writing Beatle songs, dunno if you noticed.

No one cares what you do or dont give a shit about, the question is about a topic, the topic is based on a reality, whats going on in your head in terms of what you do or dont give a shit about is a matter for you and your therapist.

And whats Axlisold and his wifes opinion about you got to do with me?

They're your friends and you're inclined to agree with them against me. Like, I say "the sky is blue!", and AxlisOld says, "No it's not", you who don't really have any horse in the race will jump in and be like "He's right, the sky ain't blue and here's a hundred reasons why!"

The reality is, he's an average guitarist. Or do you think Joe Satriani is great, too? Bumblefoot? All of those guys have gotten praise for their technical skills. Are they the Da Vinci's of the guitar?

[Nosaj Thing]

I think he's a great player. Not sure if he's a great songwriter, though. In the end, he's just a session musician happy to play other people's music for money.

As for the statement "immensely overrated," not sure who and where are these people immensely overrating him.

[Dr. Who]

I think he's a great player. Not sure if he's a great songwriter, though. In the end, he's just a session musician happy to play other people's music for money.

As for the statement "immensely overrated," not sure who and where are these people immensely overrating him.

The people on this forum mainly who are like cool with him, as opposed to every other guitarist who has been utterly shit on while they're in the band. People on this board seem cool with Fortus and I've seen some say he deserves a promotion etc. I'm not talking about the music world at large just this forum.

[Len Cnut]

They're your friends and you're inclined to agree with them against me. Like, I say "the sky is blue!", and AxlisOld says, "No it's not", you who don't really have any horse in the race will jump in and be like "He's right, the sky ain't blue and here's a hundred reasons why!"

Sorry, I'm Axlisolds friend, when did this happen?!? I've spoken to him in a forum context probably like 3 or 4 times in my entire time here and I'm reasonably certain that you'll find, if you ask him, that he thinks I'm a bit of a dick. If anything he's an ex-friend of yours that you had some fuckin' lovers tiff with and a consequence of that appears to be that you think everyone on this forum is divided between fans of him and you and personally i don't think a lot of either of you nor do i spend a lot of time thinking about either of you. Despite not thinking a lot of him I am aware that he's a pretty solid guitar player, very solid in fact and a consequence of that is he's likely to know a lot more about the subject than me or you and when i stated that here I wasn't just referring to you and your opinions regarding songwriting being the only credible purpose for a guitar, it was the fact that you talk about specifics to do with guitar playing that are total fucking bollocks and me, with a rudimentary understanding of the instrument, can tell a mile off that you're just blagging it.

The reality is, he's an average guitarist. Or do you think Joe Satriani is great, too? Bumblefoot? All of those guys have gotten praise for their technical skills. Are they the Da Vinci's of the guitar?

The reality is he's very talented at what he does, you don't play with the range of people he does and do a solid reliable job with it without being very talented otherwise we'd all be doing it. Do i think Satriani is great? Well yes i do, i don't particularly like his music cuz it's not my thing but I'd be a dick to sit here, with an accoustic guitar 5 yards from me, having owned one since the turn of the millenium, STILL hardly able to fuckin' play, yet sitting here going 'Durrr, Joe Satriani's shit!'. Bumblefoot too, quite frankly they are extremely talented, prodigiously so. Same with Buckethead (who i probably like the best of the three).

I don't like their music much and because of that, in certain instances on this forum, when comparing them to someone I prefer like Jimi Hendrix, someone whom I'm fairly passionate in my liking for, you may have heard me saying something along the lines of 'whats that shit compared to what Jimi did!' but doesn't mean to say they aren't extremely fucking talented. You are talking about two of the foremost talented guitar players in existence today, how can i possibly sit here and say they're sit because Miser says they can't write pop songs that he likes? I mean how stupid is that, as a notion?

There are a lot of good musicians out there who i don't like, the genre of metal has tons of them (i didn't say that and if you repeat it I'll deny it ), fuckin' Dimebag Darryl, all those mental shredding fuckers, it ain't my kinda music so i don't like it but see the world of music and the measure of talent is governed according to my taste, a lot of music that i like is awfully simplistic and there is tons and tons and tons besides my taste that requires a great deal of talent and skill to play.

I think perhaps in seeing me defend the likes of Johnny Ramone and Johnny Thunders in the face of people who think they are simplistic shit in the face of Van Halen or Jimmy Page that what you've imagined i was saying was 'all those other guys are shit and the only guitarists that exist are sloppy punk players' which is not the case, what I'm actually saying in those instances is 'hey, there's room for these guys too, what these guys do is a talent of it's own kind'.

[RussTCB]

I think he's a great player. Not sure if he's a great songwriter, though. In the end, he's just a session musician happy to play other people's music for money.

As for the statement "immensely overrated," not sure who and where are these people immensely overrating him.

The people on this forum mainly who are like cool with him, as opposed to every other guitarist who has been utterly shit on while they're in the band. People on this board seem cool with Fortus and I've seen some say he deserves a promotion etc. I'm not talking about the music world at large just this forum.

People on this board seem cool with him and that makes him "immensely overrated"?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+the+definition+of+overrated%3F

[Dr. Who]

I think he's a great player. Not sure if he's a great songwriter, though. In the end, he's just a session musician happy to play other people's music for money.

As for the statement "immensely overrated," not sure who and where are these people immensely overrating him.

The people on this forum mainly who are like cool with him, as opposed to every other guitarist who has been utterly shit on while they're in the band. People on this board seem cool with Fortus and I've seen some say he deserves a promotion etc. I'm not talking about the music world at large just this forum.

People on this board seem cool with him and that makes him "immensely overrated"?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+the+definition+of+overrated%3F

In Guns yeah. I think he's overrated by forumers.

[AxlisOld]

Giving someone credit for their mastery of an instrument is not overrating them. Pointing out when someone makes a dumb statement is not conspiring again them. Though every other poster in this thread agrees that your overrated theory is wrong, it must be my fault.

[Dr. Who]

Giving someone credit for their mastery of an instrument is not overrating them. Pointing out when someone makes a dumb statement is not conspiring again them. Though every other poster in this thread agrees that your overrated theory is wrong, it must be my fault.

Okay, I bow to your almighty, infallible, Republican wisdom. Richard Fortus is the best guitarist of our time. Fuck that Slash guy. He's so 80s.

[AxlisOld]

When did I say fuck Slash? I said Richard Fortus is a damn good guitarist. You're just pissy because no one agrees with you.

[ZoSoRose]

Miser, wtf are you even talking about in this thread?

Richard Fortus is an amazing guitar player. That isn't an opinion, its a fact. People give him credit for that, so no, he is not overrated. Nobody's saying he is a great songwriter.

Satriani is also an amazing player, and has written some pretty cool songs. That is besides the point, though.

[moreblack]

Fortus is a smokin' player, he is probably the most versatile player in Nu.

[Powerage5]

Giving someone credit for their mastery of an instrument is not overrating them. Pointing out when someone makes a dumb statement is not conspiring again them. Though every other poster in this thread agrees that your overrated theory is wrong, it must be my fault.

Okay, I bow to your almighty, infallible, Republican wisdom. Richard Fortus is the best guitarist of our time. Fuck that Slash guy. He's so 80s.

You know what Miser? Don't post a thread with a controversial and/or unpopular opinion, in the Civil War section no less, if you're not prepared for people to tell you you're wrong. This isn't anyone out to get you, it's not a conspiracy led by AxlIsOld because he hates you, it's just people disagreeing with your opinion. No one is bringing Slash into this expect you, so don't try to turn this into an "everyone hates Slash" thing. No one has disagreed with you on the songwriting aspect - we haven't heard any of his songwriting (at least not with Guns), so we can't fairly judge that. But to say he's not a good guitarist is absurd. As it's already been pointed out, he's incredibly desirable in the music business, from all different types of artists. He's versatile, incredibly skilled, soulful, and exudes a cool image. Other than the songwriting aspect, tell me how, when it comes to playing the instrument what I described is any different from Slash or Izzy. The dude is a true master of guitar through and through.

But hey, fuck that Fortus guy. He's so 2002.

[axlslash]

4tus has been my favorite member of the band since I got really into them in 2001 or so (I know, I was late to the party, but I was still only in middle school at the time, so spare me). The power and emotion that he plays his rhythm lines with is really impressive. I always loved the way he puts his whole body into some of those power chords, especially playing IRS live. He's a #1 lead guitar player in any other band, but got relegated to rhythm for Guns and does it admirably. When he lets lose (ex. James Bond) he absolutely cooks. Plus he's not a character. He's not Robin or Bucket or Dj who have stage wardrobes and have an act. He's just a dude, in his own clothes, hanging out and playing some down and bluesy rock n' fuckin' roll. Plus, as has been pointed out, he's stifled by the rhythm role. Listen to his lead work (KOHD and Daisies, for example) and you see what a truly spectacular blues-rock axe man he is.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion and whatever else, but how you can think 4tus is anything but underrated is beyond me.

[bacardimayne]

Yet, I see some people, even classic GN'R fans, saying he'd be an acceptable road replacement for Izzy in a reunion.

Why?

Because he looks the part and can play live, as long as you don't give him any solos.

[bacardimayne]

oh jesus, i just read the thread and now i feel bad for even responding

I give it a week until Miser's next meltdown/ban.

[DieselDaisy]

Izzy Stradlin is the best guitarist of Guns N' Roses - enough said.

[Dr. Who]

Izzy Stradlin is the best guitarist of Guns N' Roses - enough said.

Agree on that.

[Apollo]

Giving someone credit for their mastery of an instrument is not overrating them. Pointing out when someone makes a dumb statement is not conspiring again them. Though every other poster in this thread agrees that your overrated theory is wrong, it must be my fault.

Okay, I bow to your almighty, infallible, Republican wisdom. Richard Fortus is the best guitarist of our time. Fuck that Slash guy. He's so 80s.

You know what Miser? Don't post a thread with a controversial and/or unpopular opinion, in the Civil War section no less, if you're not prepared for people to tell you you're wrong. This isn't anyone out to get you, it's not a conspiracy led by AxlIsOld because he hates you, it's just people disagreeing with your opinion. No one is bringing Slash into this expect you, so don't try to turn this into an "everyone hates Slash" thing. No one has disagreed with you on the songwriting aspect - we haven't heard any of his songwriting (at least not with Guns), so we can't fairly judge that. But to say he's not a good guitarist is absurd. As it's already been pointed out, he's incredibly desirable in the music business, from all different types of artists. He's versatile, incredibly skilled, soulful, and exudes a cool image. Other than the songwriting aspect, tell me how, when it comes to playing the instrument what I described is any different from Slash or Izzy. The dude is a true master of guitar through and through.

But hey, fuck that Fortus guy. He's so 2002.

??????????

[EvH]

Nope.