What lineup do you want to see reunite the most?

[Rustycage]

You aren't going to convince anyone that isn't already convinced. Especially me. You're only entrenching yourself and beating your chest at this point.

[ChineseIRS]

Gilby doesnt matter, Fortus doesnt matter , Tobias doesnt matter. Any other guitarist u could name in the world doesnt matter for rhythm guitarist in a reunion situation. If its not Izzy then it doesnt matter who it is. Axl and Slash together again will be selling most of the tickets to the general public, they could care less about the rhythm guitarist, especially if its not Izzy.

[AxlJacksonRose]

Axl, Tracii, Rob Gardner, Gilby & Ashba...

Only joking.

Axl, Slash, Izzy & Duff... as 'nice' as it'd be to have Adler back I'd be concerned about his health...

[DieselDaisy]

Gilby doesnt matter, Fortus doesnt matter , Tobias doesnt matter. Any other guitarist u could name in the world doesnt matter for rhythm guitarist in a reunion situation. If its not Izzy then it doesnt matter who it is. Axl and Slash together again will be selling most of the tickets to the general public, they could care less about the rhythm guitarist, especially if its not Izzy.

Although you are broadly correct, if that is the people you wish to attract only possess Greatest Hits, this is not the way a fan base of any given band usually views 'reunion' - if it is a reunion we are discussing here? Most reunion tours involve the return of a distinct line-up, not merely a return of certain 'more famous members' for the benefit of uber casual Joe Public crowds.

You aren't going to convince anyone that isn't already convinced. Especially me. You're only entrenching yourself and beating your chest at this point.

Just carry on ignoring those inconvenient facts.

Edited October 15, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[TeeJay410]

I really don't think Adler is capable of playing the Illusions material. Not that it is complicated, however it is so tightly played there's no way he could replicate it. Hell he couldn't eve play civil war in '89 without 200 takes spliced together.

[ChineseIRS]

Gilby doesnt matter, Fortus doesnt matter , Tobias doesnt matter. Any other guitarist u could name in the world doesnt matter for rhythm guitarist in a reunion situation. If its not Izzy then it doesnt matter who it is. Axl and Slash together again will be selling most of the tickets to the general public, they could care less about the rhythm guitarist, especially if its not Izzy.

Although you are broadly correct, if that is the people you wish to attract only possess Greatest Hits, this is not the way a fan base of any given band usually views 'reunion' - if it is a reunion we are discussing here? Most reunion tours involve the return of a distinct line-up, not merely a return of certain 'more famous members' for the benefit of uber casual Joe Public.

But isnt that essentially what Reunion tours are? A Greatest hits, huge money making ordeal. Most of the time these bands arent even friends, dont like each other, etc. They do it for the money. Promoters dont give a shit if its a distinct line up, as long as it makes millions. And unfortunately Joe public doesnt give a shit as long as the face of the band is there, and in Guns' case its Axl and Slash. They will be selling the tickets for the most part. The cool thing for hardcores is that they seem to actually be friends/on talking terms before they are doing it which a lot of other reunited bands dont care to make happen. Only hardcores will care if Gilbys there instead of Fortus if its not Izzy. A reunion doesnt hinge on them. Thats the only point people are trying to make here. To the public, Axl, Slash, and Duff is all they really need for it to be a "reunion."

[Free Bird]

If Velvet Revolver really were intended to be GNR they rather had chosen Sebastian Bach instead of Weiland. They were more mordern sounding with Kushner than they were with Gilby on rhythm.

[wasted]

I feel like they have tried to stay away from being too GNR. Save it for the reunion. If Izzy and Bach were in VR they would have no real need to reformed GNR? According to them they didnt need Axl much he was just interfering and ruining everything right?

[DieselDaisy]

Gilby doesnt matter, Fortus doesnt matter , Tobias doesnt matter. Any other guitarist u could name in the world doesnt matter for rhythm guitarist in a reunion situation. If its not Izzy then it doesnt matter who it is. Axl and Slash together again will be selling most of the tickets to the general public, they could care less about the rhythm guitarist, especially if its not Izzy.

Although you are broadly correct, if that is the people you wish to attract only possess Greatest Hits, this is not the way a fan base of any given band usually views 'reunion' - if it is a reunion we are discussing here? Most reunion tours involve the return of a distinct line-up, not merely a return of certain 'more famous members' for the benefit of uber casual Joe Public.

But isnt that essentially what Reunion tours are? A Greatest hits, huge money making ordeal. Most of the time these bands arent even friends, dont like each other, etc. They do it for the money. Promoters dont give a shit if its a distinct line up, as long as it makes millions. And unfortunately Joe public doesnt give a shit as long as the face of the band is there, and in Guns' case its Axl and Slash. They will be selling the tickets for the most part. The cool thing for hardcores is that they seem to actually be friends/on talking terms before they are doing it which a lot of other reunited bands dont care to make happen. Only hardcores will care if Gilbys there instead of Fortus if its not Izzy. A reunion doesnt hinge on them. Thats the only point people are trying to make here. To the public, Axl, Slash, and Duff is all they really need for it to be a "reunion."

To a certain degree you are correct, about the paramountcy of Axl and Slash, however I do not believe names like Izzy Stradlin, Steven Adler, Matt Sorum - and to a lesser degree, Gilby and Dizzy - are as unknown and dismissive an attribute as made out here. If you imagine an audience like a circle with concentric rings inside. On the outside are casuals who own Greatest Hits and know the band from the videos for November Rain and Sweet Child. These are your ''Axl N' Slash'' people. Then there is an inner ring which includes what I call 'general rock fans' - I will explain this point later. And in the middle you have a small whole circle of hardcore fans, i.e. us basically, nutters who listen to bootlegs and have tedious soap opera conversations like this one. The split could be approximately 50/40/10% respectively. It is that middle category that concerns me, the general rock fans. These are fans who do not visit forums or collect bootlegs but they are usually semi-informed about line-ups and possess all the major releases. When I was growing up people (from this category) certainly were aware of Duff, Izzy and Steven. Some of them were moderately aware that Stradlin wrote a lot of the songs. Some of them might have even preferred those members. These people probably own Appetite, Lies and Illusion and probably checked out in 1996 when Slash left. These are a sizable demographic. They are concerned about legitimacy - seeing a major (bona fide) band at least once.

(Many of them have bands with which they are the hardcore fan, e.g. Metallica, Maiden, etc., so they are at least aware what it is like to follow a band passionately).

In regards to promoters, they look for a selling point. Axl and Slash would produce just that, ''Axl and Slash'', as the selling point but how much better would it be to have alongside ''Axl N' Slash'',

- A (full blooded) reunion

- the original (Appetite) lineup playing live for the first time since 1989.

- A reunion of the old band for the first time since 1991 or 1992 (if it has to be watered down with people like Matt and Gilby)

These are all certifiable selling points for reunion tours. You cannot sell a tour with these if you have people like Fortus hanging round. The reunion angle works best when it is an angle that is as pure as humanely possible - preferably 100% (we are all in agreement that Izzy would be first choice although we seem split over Adler v Matt). It is an easier sell. A less muddy solution. It is rational. Logical. A continuation, connecting us back to our past. Legit.

Additionally, you are also dealing with a band which seemed democratically organised musically in the 1980s. There is no way Appetite would sound the same if you removed one element. A lot of people are willing to criticise Adler here yet if you remove his drumming the whole album would be different. He provided the groove and swing. Duff's bass lines had a sort of punk-pop feel, and Izzy had Hanoi Rocks/Ron Wood style slashing rhythmic playing which perfectly offset Slash. You remove any of those so called 'less important members' and you are simply not going to recreate the Appetite style and feel. It is that simple. To a lesser extent this is true of the Illusion line-ups also. Those lesser parts of GN'R were in many ways as vital as Axl and Slash's. It is just that Axl and Slash had the publicity.

That is what a lot of general rock fans (and hardcore fans) would love, to hear Appetite as it should be. An Axl and Slash show would be shallow in comparison, a sort of quasi-reunion, a flawed compromise.

[wasted]

The problem is Axl has been pulling in crowds with a modern line up. So it might not be about the pure AFD line up.

I think 90% will go for Axl n Slash and Duff adds legitimacy.

What's funny is the basic GNR fan loyal to the end knows nothing about the band. GNR were just rabble rousers that delivered live and on record for the most part, singles anyway. My friend his favorite band is GNR and I have to force to listen to UYI. He doesn't hate it he just doesn't care that much. If you mention Izzy stradlin he starts laughing at his name. If you remind him he wrote the songs he just starts shouting about Slash. And he was going to go to see nu GNR in Leeds but the show was cancelled. I'm not sure if there was any logic to why he was going. But I think if Slash and Axl and Duff were there he'd be convinced it was the real band. He only likes GNR, Oasis, Pearl Jam and I got him into AcDc. And he's a real GNR fan and doubt he cares about Adler or Izzy for live shows. Because it's about him getting drunk and singing along and seeing Slash and Axl up there on stage. His friend also same mind set. He starts snake dancing when he's drunk but I doubt he can name line ups of GNR. If Slash and Axl are going to be there he'll get a ticket.

So I think 90% of fans would be happy with Slash, Axl and Duff. Slash will bring half the fanbase back?

It's more the 10% that care about the classic line up. The band those guys may want to do it for old times sake too, unfinished business. To me you need Izzy for a reunion record if you are going to capture some of that old magic. The 40% probably don't know that but when they hear it they might get CD's again. It doesn't sound like GNR!

[Rovim]

He starts snake dancing when he's drunk but I doubt he can name line ups of GNR. If Slash and Axl are going to be there he'll get a ticket.

The man starts to snake dance when he's drunk! and you're all complaints, complaints, complaints. He expresses his love for the holy band in the purest way possible. Naming line ups ain't what it used to be.

[wasted]

He starts snake dancing when he's drunk but I doubt he can name line ups of GNR. If Slash and Axl are going to be there he'll get a ticket.

The man starts to snake dance when he's drunk! and you're all complaints, complaints, complaints. He expresses his love for the holy band in the purest way possible. Naming line ups ain't what it used to be.

I'm not complaining I'm just saying he's the realest of real GNR fans and he doesn't neccasarily care about Izzy or Matt or Gilby or Fortus. He just wants to see Slash on stage with Axl. It's more about the fun of the show not nit picking members. Your average GNR fan isnt a musician or musicologist he just wants to ride the nightrain.

He starts snake dancing when he's drunk but I doubt he can name line ups of GNR. If Slash and Axl are going to be there he'll get a ticket.

The man starts to snake dance when he's drunk! and you're all complaints, complaints, complaints. He expresses his love for the holy band in the purest way possible. Naming line ups ain't what it used to be.

I'm not complaining I'm just saying he's the realest of real GNR fans and he doesn't neccasarily care about Izzy or Matt or Gilby or Fortus. He just wants to see Slash on stage with Axl. It's more about the fun of the show not nit picking members. Your average GNR fan isnt a musician or musicologist he just wants to ride the nightrain.

[Rovim]

He starts snake dancing when he's drunk but I doubt he can name line ups of GNR. If Slash and Axl are going to be there he'll get a ticket.

The man starts to snake dance when he's drunk! and you're all complaints, complaints, complaints. He expresses his love for the holy band in the purest way possible. Naming line ups ain't what it used to be.

I'm not complaining I'm just saying he's the realest of real GNR fans and he doesn't neccasarily care about Izzy or Matt or Gilby or Fortus. He just wants to see Slash on stage with Axl. It's more about the fun of the show not nit picking members. Your average GNR fan isnt a musician or musicologist he just wants to ride the nightrain.

But I want to ride the rollercoaster of destruction.

When I'm sad, my sister snake dances with a broom to cheer me up.

On topic: it's not about what the fans want imo anyway so could be not relevant or important. It's about what Axl wants. Fans may be a factor, but the tour is not really important. Can still make money without a reunion like you said.

The recorded music Axl releases won't be dictated by what people want for the most part imo. He does this shit for himself, like a true artist should.

That doesn't mean he won't collaborate with Slash, Duff, or both. But only if he believes it's right and he thinks the music reflects his musical vision. So maybe that's why I'm not worried, just curious to see what he'll choose to prostitute next.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Slash and Duff could be the finishing touches and pr for the release of CD II.

What if Axl releases the re-recorded version of AFD next year with Finck and Tobias joining for a Vegas Residency called Rollercoaster of Destruction and they play a few songs from CD II as well. God damn that would disappoint so many people, let's do that!

[DieselDaisy]

The problem is Axl has been pulling in crowds with a modern line up. So it might not be about the pure AFD line up.

At a rapidly diminishing rate of return!

Edited October 15, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

I might be about to draw a ridiculous parrallel here, it's at best vague but bear with me. Anyone else notice how GnR became a bit shite after Adler left? i mean without getting into the merits or lack thereof of the Illusion albums, they were alright...but they weren't Appetite or Lies. So Adler was a piss artist and a bit of a fuck up...so was Keith Moon...and The Who were pretty much naff once he left I'm sure you'll all agree. I won't even listen to a Moonless Who, i think it's sacreligious. I mean he weren't Mr fuckin' technical drummer...but neither was Moonie. A great many people think that, musically speaking, in terms of correct form etc The Who became a better band with Kenny whatshisface from The Faces but they lost that reckless fuckin' mentalist aspect that made them so unique.

Now I'm not by any stretch of the imagination comparing Stevie Adler with Lord Keith Moon, who i believe to be some sort of incarnation of God but there is a vague parrallel there, the mentalist pisshead drummer without whom their sound sort of changed for the worse and weren't ever quite the same again.

Thing about a player is that they ain't just about what they themselves do as a standalone thing, it's about what they bring out in the other players too, you don't play the same with everybody that you play with, different styles brings different things out of each individual performer and contributes a lot more to the greater tapestry than just what they are doing in and of themselves.

I find it slightly off-putting that it's like 'we can't have Stevie cuz he's a waster' is like the cardinal objection to him, it's something of an indicator of the kind of footing that this reunion will be on, should it ever occur, i.e. a dull boring sterile one. 'But he won't be able to keep it up long term!', if he does then yay, better band and if he doesn't even better, play a handful of blistering fucking gigs for posterity and then collapse again, I could live with that if the other option is Matt Sorum fannying on about fuckin' animal rights and having swingless drum sound that sounds like a lisence plate press.

[Rovim]

I might be about to draw a ridiculous parrallel here, it's at best vague but bear with me. Anyone else notice how GnR became a bit shite after Adler left? i mean without getting into the merits or lack thereof of the Illusion albums, they were alright...but they weren't Appetite or Lies. So Adler was a piss artist and a bit of a fuck up...so was Keith Moon...and The Who were pretty much naff once he left I'm sure you'll all agree. I won't even listen to a Moonless Who, i think it's sacreligious. I mean he weren't Mr fuckin' technical drummer...but neither was Moonie. A great many people think that, musically speaking, in terms of correct form etc The Who became a better band with Kenny whatshisface from The Faces but they lost that reckless fuckin' mentalist aspect that made them so unique.

Now I'm not by any stretch of the imagination comparing Stevie Adler with Lord Keith Moon, who i believe to be some sort of incarnation of God but there is a vague parrallel there, the mentalist pisshead drummer without whom their sound sort of changed for the worse and weren't ever quite the same again.

Thing about a player is that they ain't just about what they themselves do as a standalone thing, it's about what they bring out in the other players too, you don't play the same with everybody that you play with, different styles brings different things out of each individual performer and contributes a lot more to the greater tapestry than just what they are doing in and of themselves.

I find it slightly off-putting that it's like 'we can't have Stevie cuz he's a waster' is like the cardinal objection to him, it's something of an indicator of the kind of footing that this reunion will be on, should it ever occur, i.e. a dull boring sterile one. 'But he won't be able to keep it up long term!', if he does then yay, better band and if he doesn't even better, play a handful of blistering fucking gigs for posterity and then collapse again, I could live with that if the other option is Matt Sorum fannying on about fuckin' animal rights and having swingless drum sound that sounds like a lisence plate press.

Yeah you're right in that there are drummers that are great on their own, but horrid in a band context. Just like guitar players, etc.

Izzy said everything was wrong after Steven left. Sounded wrong. And he was right. It was "wrong" in the sense that it wasn't steven on the kit, and he did have perfect chemistry with the rest of the band members from the classic line up. Like Duff said, it could have been only the 5 of them. That obviously includes Adler.

One thing I disagree is that people don't think he's able. It's not that. It's Axl. He said playing even one song with Steven will mean years of litigation.

[trqster]

Interesting to see so much love out there for Mr. Dizzy fuckin'Reed! I'm also for including the guy....basically anyone else from the UYI lineup would be just fine, except for the worthless backup singers Traci and Roberta...

[DieselDaisy]

Adler's drumming made the band, he made a big musical difference. His sense of swing was the push and pull that gave the songs their feel. Afterwards, nothing worked.

- Izzy

[AxlJacksonRose]

I was reading through this earlier and totally agreed with what someone said about most people seeing Duff Slash & Axl as a legit reunion.. A true reunion needs Izzy Stradlin. That guy truly is the unsung hero of GNR. In my opinion atleast.

[trev]

There was a problem with Adlers drumming - him being fucked up on drugs and booze so bad he wasn't able to play!

There's not much reason to rely on the guy staying sober.

$$$ lawsuits.

The guy just isn't too bright.

Other than that, he's a great drummer to have and a good guy.

[Nosaj Thing]

Would rather have a fucked-up drummer like Adler in a reunion than a talentless hack like Ferrer. That's for sure.

[Randy Jesus]

I will not vote until there is an option with Pitman on it.

[wasted]

The problem is Axl has been pulling in crowds with a modern line up. So it might not be about the pure AFD line up.

At a rapidly diminishing rate of return!

Tailing off a bit after touring CD since 2000. Maybe. From 2011 it was these Vegas Reses. A new album or a length hiatus til 2021 would renew some interest.

Of course not like a reunion. But theyve been doing okay. Axl prob gets 50% takings too. With all the royalties I doubt Axl is hurting for money. So in one way of looking at it why not just pay da cost to be tha boss?

I will not vote until there is an option with Pitman on it.

Wouldn't that be CD II touring line up? Just carrying on, release CD II with Fortus, Pitman, Frank, Dizzy and Axl.

The coup would be to get Slash and Duff to join for the tour. It would be confusing but we'd get the new GNR album and a reunion of sorts. Win win.

[Dr. Who]

I might be about to draw a ridiculous parrallel here, it's at best vague but bear with me. Anyone else notice how GnR became a bit shite after Adler left? i mean without getting into the merits or lack thereof of the Illusion albums, they were alright...but they weren't Appetite or Lies. So Adler was a piss artist and a bit of a fuck up...so was Keith Moon...and The Who were pretty much naff once he left I'm sure you'll all agree. I won't even listen to a Moonless Who, i think it's sacreligious. I mean he weren't Mr fuckin' technical drummer...but neither was Moonie. A great many people think that, musically speaking, in terms of correct form etc The Who became a better band with Kenny whatshisface from The Faces but they lost that reckless fuckin' mentalist aspect that made them so unique.

Now I'm not by any stretch of the imagination comparing Stevie Adler with Lord Keith Moon, who i believe to be some sort of incarnation of God but there is a vague parrallel there, the mentalist pisshead drummer without whom their sound sort of changed for the worse and weren't ever quite the same again.

Thing about a player is that they ain't just about what they themselves do as a standalone thing, it's about what they bring out in the other players too, you don't play the same with everybody that you play with, different styles brings different things out of each individual performer and contributes a lot more to the greater tapestry than just what they are doing in and of themselves.

I find it slightly off-putting that it's like 'we can't have Stevie cuz he's a waster' is like the cardinal objection to him, it's something of an indicator of the kind of footing that this reunion will be on, should it ever occur, i.e. a dull boring sterile one. 'But he won't be able to keep it up long term!', if he does then yay, better band and if he doesn't even better, play a handful of blistering fucking gigs for posterity and then collapse again, I could live with that if the other option is Matt Sorum fannying on about fuckin' animal rights and having swingless drum sound that sounds like a lisence plate press.

Yeah you're right in that there are drummers that are great on their own, but horrid in a band context. Just like guitar players, etc.

Izzy said everything was wrong after Steven left. Sounded wrong. And he was right. It was "wrong" in the sense that it wasn't steven on the kit, and he did have perfect chemistry with the rest of the band members from the classic line up. Like Duff said, it could have been only the 5 of them. That obviously includes Adler.

One thing I disagree is that people don't think he's able. It's not that. It's Axl. He said playing even one song with Steven will mean years of litigation.

Indeed. UYIs era (90s) was not GN'R. It was FakeGN'R. Guns N' Roses isn't about real lyrics, it's about the 80s and big hair and havin' nothin' but a good time'.

UYI GN'R sucked, it wasn't real.