I'm not happy about the "happy ending" Axl never "owed" anyone.

[Kenan]

I don't think it really matters, certainly not to the point of creating bad atmosphere around it, how come Slash and Axl managed to patch their relationship and who was at fault and who owes who..It's between those two. Period. I'm just happy, as it appears, they re-connected and they'll be sharing the same stage together, under the same banner - which up untill recently was unconceivable to even imagine.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Kenan

[RussTCB]

I was wildly irritated with the whole thing yesterday but that all stemmed from the sudden cancelation of the Kimmel appearance. Then I gotta guess/assume that things are still in motion for a few hours based on Slash & Duffs updates. Then I gotta wait for Fernando to announce something he still hasn't announced. Then we see an Axl tweet, then we see a Pitman tweet. Then some vague stuff from Frank. Still nothing on other guitarist(s)..........

I was just completely over it. After a nights sleep, I'm back to realizing that that's just how being a GN'R fan goes.

Anyone upset about the Chinese era getting completely swept aside should be encouraged by Pitman being involved IMO.

[wasted]

Potentially Axl isn't throwing in the towel (that's Pitman's job), this could just be a continuation of or realisation of what he thinks should be the next GNR album. Some CD era modern elements mixed with some more hard rock or punk elements which were the foundations of the band.

Or they might want to do a more straight hard rock record. Slash, Duff and Axl probably can do this. Izzy coming back in as a creative force could also be a factor.

So I don't think it needs to be a creative dead end musically.

Sure the money is in the tour and they need it to live their lives. But they aren't neccasarily a spent force creatively.

It might be a little disappointing without a record but there seems to be enough fans who just want to celebrate the music they made and just see it all work out.

Edited January 5, 2016 by wasted

[Ak1nney]

I think Axl came to the realization that the lineup switches, members losing interest and eventually leaving, and everything of the sort was the end of what he had going. He gave it an honest run and I think he wanted to do more if he could have had the confidence in what he was working with. He has the most confidence in Finck and Buckethead, and they've been gone for a while now.

I think reuniting gives Axl and the other guys the chance to be TOP DOG again, and that counts for something. Does it lead to new music? That is really hard to imagine, but maybe.

[Original GNR]

At the end of the day, why does Guns N Roses have the legendary status it currently has? What is behind the over 100 million album sales, and the musical legacy?

Answer? It's the classic lineup of the band. It's the magic that was created by the 5 guys who got together in the mid-80s, living like street urchins, creating real music together that catapulted this band into one of the biggest in the world and as a result still has an army of fans like us still interested in them in 2016 - 25 years after UYI was released!

Maybe, just maybe, Axl in his middle age has come to realise that he can only continue touring with a motley crew of assorted musicians (all highly accomplished, but anonymous) for so long before continuing to devalue the GNR name.

Let's face it, life is short, the guys probably have another 10 or so years left in them as touring musicians so it's now or never to heal old wounds and reconnect with old musical brothers.

At the end of the day, without the music created and the bandmates involved from '85-'93, Axl would have no band and no back catalogue and nothing to sing onstage with Bumblefoot or Buckethead or whoever else he's been touring with over the last 15 years.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Original GNR

[Towelie]

I think what has happened is for the best, I really do. I mean, Axl wasn't remotely inspired or interested in collaborating on ideas from Ron or *shudder* Ashba, and that is what drove him back to the arms of his former band.

2009 was really the end of NuGuns, when they went out on tour in support of an album that had already been out for over a year and received no promotion at the time of its release. They toured this album from 09-14, despite the fact that not one of the key players (outside of Axl) was still in the band. 2006 proved that NuGuns could recover from Bucket's departure, but the nail was in the coffin when Finck left and got replaced by Ashba. By that point, I suspect Axl simply had contracts he needed to honour and money to be made to recoup the costs of the albums production and just went ahead with whatever lineup he had to get it done. Remember back in 09, during one of the early shows when he said about how the last year had been one of the worst of his entire life? Perhaps releasing Chinese after the two main guys he'd invested in had abandoned ship effected him more than we realise...

And as for the 09-14 guys, they were clearly never the band Axl intended to create and he never once seemed inspired by them on a creative level. After the Vegas residencies, it was reunion or bust and I think that was obvious to everyone, probably even Ashba and Ron by that point.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Towelie

[Jordan Rose]

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even get much of an explanation as to why he's doing this after everything he's said over the years.

He doesn't owe you an explanation any more than he owes other fans a happy ending.

As I said:

Of course, he doesn't "owe" us an explanation. But then he didn't owe anyone their own happy ending and all the people who have shat on him, Chinese and the Chinese line-up are all getting their happy ending.

What if the choice was to either bring Slash and Duff back or reach the end of GNR? Would you still be unhappy if those were the only two options?

Many times during 2011 whilst watching DJ mangle shit up I thought "Why not just re-unite if all you're gonna do is promote Appetite with this guy?"

If those were the only two options then obviously bring them back, even if it's for nostalgia and I wont give a toss.

I feel sorry for you man, I'm sorry Axl crushed your dreams, but if its any consolation, he's made many many many more peoples dreams come true and made them happier with this announcement including myself and for that I am NOT sorry.

Please don't take any offense to this.....................

No offense taken and thanks for the long reply. I completely disagree with your assessment of the potential of the Chinese band. It all failed because of Axl and his reasons for not getting shit done, not because of lack of chemistry or material or hired hands etc. If the the bloody drummer from Nirvana who has 1/100th the talent of Axl can start a new band and become one of the biggest rock draws in the world then Axl could have. He could have done it with a new name, nevermind with the drawing power of the Guns brand.

I understand Axl has made the dreams of countless people come true and i'm one of about ten people who feel the way I do. But I have the right to feel bitter when i've been down on the barrier singing Madagascar in 2002 and so many of the people who are now ecstatic never even went to a show but are now going to pack a stadium to sing Sweet Child and other 30-year-old songs about drugs and partying that have fuck all to do with the lives of the people who will be playing them.

Well guess what: it was either a reunion or another lineup change, for a 53 year old Axl that has been playing AFD residencies with flying pianos and cabaret dancers... This is a MUCH better scenario if you ask me. Even if it's the EXACT same setlist they've been playing and Axl sounds like shit like he's been sounding, it's better than ANYTHING we've been having over tge last 5 years.

Again, I can't argue with that.

Axl was into Nu-GNR only because he was forcing himself to be, as he had no other choice. Either quit completely or build something new and pretend he believes in it. He chose the second option (he even stated somewhere that he considered giving it up completely), also because he had no other option financially, and for a short while managed to convice himself that it was worht an effort.

But the truth is his heart was never in it and it soon began to show until it was a joke of a band, joke of performances and joke of everything. It had to fail. Axl never got over Slash, say what you will, this is the truth.

So it's great they're back together. If anything can bring that passion and desire to create and deliver back in him after all those years, it can only be this.

"But the truth is his heart was never in it." Absolute nonsense. His heart was in it in 2010, that much is clear from his performances. Something clearly happened (maybe the label rejecting an album) that began the slow decline from 2011 onwards and yes, his heart was clearly not in it then.

But, like you, I do hope that Duff and Slash will bring back some passion and desire in general. I mean, only BFF had the balls to push to get us Don't Cry and Estranged. Duff is there 5 minutes and they open with YCBM.

It'll all end in tears, we all know that, but why not just enjoy it while it lasts, in whatever format that may be (I never saw NuGnR, just the original lineup, once with Steven and once with Matt)....I hope they come to the UK before they split though (hold it together long enough guys!)

I sincerely hope it all goes smoothly and with Axl much better with starting on time in recent years that's a major hurdle out of the way.

Given that musical differences were the main problem in the 90s you've got to imagine that could still be an issue. But then after all the people he's played with I imagine Slash is way more open these days to trying some new ideas.

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

Is everyone going to start their own thread based on their love/hate for this decision? I'm no Mod but I don't see how one person's opinion is more valid than anyone else's and therefore thread worthy. Anyway,it is what it is. Go to the shows. Don't go to the shows. Axl,Slash and Duff will laugh all the way to the bank. I just hope we get some new tunes out of all this (preferably with Izzy)and that Adler gets to play live. After 29 years of being a fan you learn that you don't always get what you want but the ride sure is interesting.

Actually, I started the thread because after being glued to here and Truth for the last 24 hours i've seen nobody else sharing my sentiments at all. It's been 99% "Yay, Slash is back!" There's been a few people critical because they're hardcore Appetite/classic-era fans and think a reunion without the Appetite 5 is bullshit. But I felt like the only bloody gay in the village.

I was wildly irritated with the whole thing yesterday but that all stemmed from the sudden cancelation of the Kimmel appearance. Then I gotta guess/assume that things are still in motion for a few hours based on Slash & Duffs updates. Then I gotta wait for Fernando to announce something he still hasn't announced. Then we see an Axl tweet, then we see a Pitman tweet. Then some vague stuff from Frank. Still nothing on other guitarist(s)..........

I was just completely over it. After a nights sleep, I'm back to realizing that that's just how being a GN'R fan goes.

Anyone upset about the Chinese era getting completely swept aside should be encouraged by Pitman being involved IMO.

Lol, you're right, it's just how it goes.

I agree about Pitman and I think if he's really having 3 guitarists that also bodes very well for Chinese/new material.

Having said that, I can imagine him insisting on keeping Frank, Pitman and Richard just because they've been loyal. When Tommy chose the 'Mats over Guns that really changed everything.

[Jordan Rose]

I think what has happened is for the best, I really do. I mean, Axl wasn't remotely inspired or interested in collaborating on ideas from Ron or *shudder* Ashba, and that is what drove him back to the arms of his former band.

2009 was really the end of NuGuns, when they went out on tour in support of an album that had already been out for over a year and received no promotion at the time of its release. They toured this album from 09-14, despite the fact that not one of the key players (outside of Axl) was still in the band. 2006 proved that NuGuns could recover from Bucket's departure, but the nail was in the coffin when Finck left and got replaced by Ashba. By that point, I suspect Axl simply had contracts he needed to honour and money to be made to recoup the costs of the albums production and just went ahead with whatever lineup he had to get it done. Remember back in 09, during one of the early shows when he said about how the last year had been one of the worst of his entire life? Perhaps releasing Chinese after the two main guys he'd invested in had abandoned ship effected him more than we realise...

And as for the 09-14 guys, they were clearly never the band Axl intended to create and he never once seemed inspired by them on a creative level. After the Vegas residencies, it was reunion or bust and I think that was obvious to everyone, probably even Ashba and Ron by that point.

Fucking brilliant post. You nailed it 100%. I actually feel less bitter and annoyed after reading that.

I don't know if the rumours of the record company rejecting album 2 in 2010 were true but something along those lines in '09-'10 seemed to have been when he gave up.

Reunion or bust.....yeah.

[The Glow Inc.]

This reunion makes the Ashba "living the dream" moments even more hilarious in retrospect...

[GNRfan2008]

Of course, he doesn't "owe" us an explanation. But then he didn't owe anyone their own happy ending and all the people who have shat on him, Chinese and the Chinese line-up are all getting their happy ending.

Won't be a happy ending if he sings like Mickey Mouse. Slash/Duff and the rest of the band will play just fine but Axl is a huge weak link until proven otherwise. The "happy ending" would have been a reunion in 2006 when Axl was in good shape both vocally and physically.

[EvanG]

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

True, but the point is it's not your band. Whether you like it or not that he is going to share a stage with Duff and SLash again isn't very relevant, they can do whatever they want.

[alfierose]

I understand your sentiments Jordan and I think this is a good debate to have, I really like CD and still listen to it a fair bit and haven't given up hope completely of hearing more stuff created in that period even if it's updated with a new twist.

I said a while back that I just wanted Axl to do 'something' and if reuniting kickstarts some 'dive in and find the monkey' attitude I'm all for it. I also think the buzz of seeing at least the 3 of them on stage again will be great, it doesn't take anything away from things I've enjoyed during CD era and I'm really happy for all those who have wanted this moment more than me.

I really hope the band are able to complete a full tour cycle and find a way to move past pure nostalgia because there's really no going back at this point so if shit hits the fan again it's retirement or solo stuff (I may end up eating those words if we end up with a Vegas era reunion in 5 years time )

As Russ said, sleep on it a bit and just maybe there will end up being a bit of something thrown in for everyone.

[Jordan Rose]

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

True, but the point is it's not your band. Whether you like it or not that he is going to share a stage with Duff and SLash again isn't very relevant, they can do whatever they want.

The point is I never said it was my band and, no, it is not their band, it's legally Axl's band.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/

I also never said my opinions were relevant to anything, it's just a discussion that's worth having which I think the responses have proved.

I understand your sentiments Jordan and I think this is a good debate to have, I really like CD and still listen to it a fair bit and haven't given up hope completely of hearing more stuff created in that period even if it's updated with a new twist.

I said a while back that I just wanted Axl to do 'something' and if reuniting kickstarts some 'dive in and find the monkey' attitude I'm all for it. I also think the buzz of seeing at least the 3 of them on stage again will be great, it doesn't take anything away from things I've enjoyed during CD era and I'm really happy for all those who have wanted this moment more than me.

I really hope the band are able to complete a full tour cycle and find a way to move past pure nostalgia because there's really no going back at this point so if shit hits the fan again it's retirement or solo stuff (I may end up eating those words if we end up with a Vegas era reunion in 5 years time )

As Russ said, sleep on it a bit and just maybe there will end up being a bit of something thrown in for everyone.

Great sentiments, great post. Cheers, man, I agree.

As I posted in the 'what counts as a reunion?' thread, this is technically and in reality still a continuation, not a scrapping of the last 15 years and hiring all the old guys back. So in that way things seem promising.

[alfierose]

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

True, but the point is it's not your band. Whether you like it or not that he is going to share a stage with Duff and SLash again isn't very relevant, they can do whatever they want.

The point is I never said it was my band and, no, it is not their band, it's legally Axl's band.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/

I also never said my opinions were relevant to anything, it's just a discussion that's worth having which I think the responses have proved.

I understand your sentiments Jordan and I think this is a good debate to have, I really like CD and still listen to it a fair bit and haven't given up hope completely of hearing more stuff created in that period even if it's updated with a new twist.

I said a while back that I just wanted Axl to do 'something' and if reuniting kickstarts some 'dive in and find the monkey' attitude I'm all for it. I also think the buzz of seeing at least the 3 of them on stage again will be great, it doesn't take anything away from things I've enjoyed during CD era and I'm really happy for all those who have wanted this moment more than me.

I really hope the band are able to complete a full tour cycle and find a way to move past pure nostalgia because there's really no going back at this point so if shit hits the fan again it's retirement or solo stuff (I may end up eating those words if we end up with a Vegas era reunion in 5 years time )

As Russ said, sleep on it a bit and just maybe there will end up being a bit of something thrown in for everyone.

Great sentiments, great post. Cheers, man, I agree.

As I posted in the 'what counts as a reunion?' thread, this is technically and in reality still a continuation, not a scrapping of the last 15 years and hiring all the old guys back. So in that way things seem promising.

To be honest I can't see Axl considering it any other way, regardless of whatever the fans and general public think I'm fairly sure this is why he has got on board with it, the zillions of dollars being an added bonus. If Fortus and Ferrer are confirmed along with Pitman I think we will hear things that back that viewpoint up, whether everyone buys into it is another matter though.

[moreblack]

All I can think of is that eventually he saw no other way forward. Maybe once he realized his vision, he didn't completely like it.

[EvanG]

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

True, but the point is it's not your band. Whether you like it or not that he is going to share a stage with Duff and SLash again isn't very relevant, they can do whatever they want.

The point is I never said it was my band and, no, it is not their band, it's legally Axl's band.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/

I also never said my opinions were relevant to anything, it's just a discussion that's worth having which I think the responses have proved.

You're allowed to have your opinion, but I find it strange you're talking about Axl's musical integrity and that you feel betrayed while the reality is that you have no idea what is happening, and that goes for all of us. So far the only thing that is confirmed is that they are playing a festival. We don't even know the line up. To speak of integrity while you have no idea what has happened behind the scenes is a bit ignorant. Also, don't take it so personal in the fact that you actually feel betrayed. It's only rock 'n roll. There are more important things in life.

[Jordan Rose]

Great sentiments, great post. Cheers, man, I agree.

As I posted in the 'what counts as a reunion?' thread, this is technically and in reality still a continuation, not a scrapping of the last 15 years and hiring all the old guys back. So in that way things seem promising.

To be honest I can't see Axl considering it any other way, regardless of whatever the fans and general public think I'm fairly sure this is why he has got on board with it, the zillions of dollars being an added bonus. If Fortus and Ferrer are confirmed along with Pitman I think we will hear things that back that viewpoint up, whether everyone buys into it is another matter though.

Yeah, the more you look at it the more it makes sense. I think that, despite the hints at improved relations between Axl and Slash since 2014, the initial shock of the reality of Slash coming back given everything that's been said just makes it seem as if Axl is disowning everything he's done in the last 15 years.

There will likely be compromises made on both sides and for Slash that may mean playing some stuff written by others.

[moreblack]

It's not even about disowning.

That chapter ended, he starts a new page.

[Jordan Rose]

You're allowed to have your opinion, but I find it strange you're talking about Axl's musical integrity and that you feel betrayed while the reality is that you have no idea what is happening, and that goes for all of us. So far the only thing that is confirmed is that they are playing a festival. We don't even know the line up. To speak of integrity while you have no idea what has happened behind the scenes is a bit ignorant. Also, don't take it so personal in the fact that you actually feel betrayed. It's only rock 'n roll. There are more important things in life.

Agreed r.e. we don't know the intentions etc. I've modified my opinions and feelings quite a bit if you read my more recent posts.

However, I do take it personally to a degree. If you spend 30 minutes reading what Axl had to say about the name etc you'll see it's not just personal to him but it defines his very existence. He says he would have been destitute and bankrupt if he hadn't secured the rights to the name and been able to continue. He might have just about been able to pull himself together to "get a job singing somewhere but nothing too high profile." That's how personal it all is to him. If you read that excerpt from the '08 chats you might realise why this is all quite so shocking to someone who understood and agreed with everything he said and backed him 100%.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/

And the songs he made on Chinese have been the most important songs to me and the soundtrack to much of the shit in my life so it's not only rock 'n roll to me either.

[GNRfan2008]

Great sentiments, great post. Cheers, man, I agree.

As I posted in the 'what counts as a reunion?' thread, this is technically and in reality still a continuation, not a scrapping of the last 15 years and hiring all the old guys back. So in that way things seem promising.

To be honest I can't see Axl considering it any other way, regardless of whatever the fans and general public think I'm fairly sure this is why he has got on board with it, the zillions of dollars being an added bonus. If Fortus and Ferrer are confirmed along with Pitman I think we will hear things that back that viewpoint up, whether everyone buys into it is another matter though.

Yeah, the more you look at it the more it makes sense. I think that, despite the hints at improved relations between Axl and Slash since 2014, the initial shock of the reality of Slash coming back given everything that's been said just makes it seem as if Axl is disowning everything he's done in the last 15 years.

There will likely be compromises made on both sides and for Slash that may mean playing some stuff written by others.

It could actually be pretty badass. Axl basically tried to make UYI3 on his own. I like CD but it doesn't always stick the landing with some of the tunes and I consider it an Axl solo project. The Velvet/Myles stuff that Slash and Duff have been doing is good too but missing something for sure as well. Blend the two together and it could truly be UYI3...especially if they can get Izzy's help on the songwriting. Edit the record better than UYI1/UYI2 and it could be a better album than those (they have a lot of brilliant material but too much filler).

[EvanG]

I stand by the fact that you don't know what happened behind the scenes between all of those guys so there is no point in feeling betrayed or judging someone's musical integrity, unless you know more than the rest of us but I'm guessing you don't.

The album Chinese Democracy is what it is, it shouldn't be better or worse on whatever Axl decides to do and that shouldn't reflect on the emotions you have towards it, whether you will disagree with his intentions to be playing with his old pals again or not.

[Jordan Rose]

I stand by the fact that you don't know what happened behind the scenes between all of those guys so there is no point in feeling betrayed or judging someone's musical integrity, unless you know more than the rest of us but I'm guessing you don't.

The album Chinese Democracy is what it is, it shouldn't be better or worse on whatever Axl decides to do and that shouldn't reflect on the emotions you have towards it, whether you will disagree with his intentions to be playing with his old pals again or not.

Fair enough, agree to disagree etc. But just out of interest, have you read all of the 2008 chat responses?

[bigpoop]

When a band has a card this big to play, it's inevitable that they will play it.

[Free Bird]

It's their band, it's not your band. Whatever has been said in the past shouldn't matter, if it doesn't matter to them. If they want to be on stage together, for whatever reasons that might be, it's their decision. Sure, you can disagree with it but at the end of the day it's not your band. Don't go see them live if they should play near you, I'd say.

Lol. It's legally Axl's band, actually. He owns the name.

I may go and see them live and i'll be sure to take a sign asking for Twat, ta.

True, but the point is it's not your band. Whether you like it or not that he is going to share a stage with Duff and SLash again isn't very relevant, they can do whatever they want.

I don't know why people ignore the fact that Axl owns the name but founded another band with the same name.

The old band is still Axl, Slash and Duff.

Of course I don't know this for a fact but I can't imagine Duff and Slash to be hired members. It's an equal partnership, so it's not Axl's band. It's their band.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Free Bird

[Vic Sage]

Axl and Slash put the past behind them and it's a good thing the feuding fans of Axl and Slash have ended it's why I've never bothered to sign up on a GnR fan site.It was like sitting through the endless Hagar/DLR feud on VH forums.Ugh!