GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[dgnr]

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why would he struggle? Slash is very famous, much more than all GN'R together. He is a LEGEND and his importance in music grows each time. He's achieved an status of respect as a mucisican than none of the other guys in the band ever will.

After this semi-reunion, there is no GN'R without Slash, really....

Plus, I'd like to add, she helped him achieve this legend status. First by taking care of the kids while he was away on tour and then she was pretty involved in his career and his career decisions while he was not so sober. «Slash later told the Telegraph that he'd quit alcohol, drugs and smoking because 'the missus was bugging [him] about it.’» She deserves part of his money for sure!
 

4 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Thank you.

What an insult to Perla. 

Yes. And, as I said before, she is not dumb. Straight to TMZ to tell her side. He should have forgetten who he was trying to fuck it up  
 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by dgnr

[GingerHair]

7 minutes ago, Santacruz said:

You are all very positive about this. So lets hope this will work out this way for him. I have a feeling that he will struggle..

Personally, I am not positive neither negative. I think those values are out of our scales but it's probably completely normal to the lifestyle that Slash and his family have.  I guess that if he agreed to pay it, it's because he can provide. And, if at some point he has difficult to keep it up and can prove that his situation changed dramatically, out of his own control, he can ask for a re-negotiation . Honestly, I am not the minimum worried or sorry for him. 

At least, he stopped trying to claim that they weren't even married. That was terribly embarrassing! . 

 

[killuridols]

14 minutes ago, downzy said:

They are a product of their times.  I'm not saying that what they sing about is always defendable, but you're talking about a group of guys who came up in a scene where women were meant for one thing.  Am I, and many others, giving them a pass?  I guess so, but only within the context that their art is a product of the 1980s Los Angeles rock/metal scene when and where social mores were different.   

Yes, you are correct as to why we seem to give them a pass with all of that.... but I think the question is why do they need to wear those kind of tshirts now, in 2018?

They cannot get rid of the songs, that's their material to work with and they don't have a huge catalogue as to pick songs that are not sexist, but they have more freedom when it comes to their outfits. That's why it is a bit baffling to see them wearing that kind of stuff.

Like I said before, I think it is out of provocation. Lots of men are negatively reacting to the feminist movements and they do it in different ways. Wearing those kind of t-shirts is one of them, in my opinion.

14 minutes ago, downzy said:

It's been interesting to see the #metoo movement involve itself in many areas of society and work, but the rock scene has largely been left unscathed.  Perhaps it's because many of the artists of years gone by have adapted.  I think this is largely evident in Chinese Democracy, where less to zero focus (and correct me if I'm wrong), is not similar in tone or content to what Axl wrote about in the 1980s and early 90s.  

It is a big mistery to me as well!!!

Sometimes I think the women who lived that life or were part of that scene are not willing to talk because they are either too wasted now or still defent that lifestyle. Many of those women are now what... like in their 50s? and I know lots of them do not like feminism or do not want to be associated with it. It is the younger generation that's carrying the flag now.

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by killuridols

[Santacruz]

5 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Interesting post. I think we as fans all give them a pass with their lyrics from beginning until 93. Also the female fans, of course.

I was kinda waiting for the #metoo movement to reach rock. There are so many baffling, appalling sexual assault stories, not only among GnR of course, I remember reading terrible ones on Steven Tyler or Jimmy Page for that matter. Or the terrible book of Sunset Boulevard in the 80s, @beautifulanddamned read and talked about here. In my opinion the #metoo movement should reach rock, too. Because it was shit and because there is still a LOT of sexism in rock (in all music industry). It is important to get things straight. I guess it is disputable if you want to roll up old stories from long ago or not. But some things need to be more discussed.

I’m wondering why it takes so long until it reaches rock / music industry. What do you guys and girls, think?

Why does it take so long? Maybe there is still a lot of sexism and hatred towards women in this society. And the Rock scene or the Music industry seem to be islands where men ( some , NOT all)  can act like they want because of "artistic freedom".It's a very comfortable and secure playground for men under this aspect.  

 

[Tori72]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Yes, you are correct as to why we seem to give them a pass with all of that.... but I think the question is why do they need to wear those kind of tshirts now, in 2018?

They cannot get rid of the songs, that's their material to work with and they don't have a huge catalogue as to pick songs that are not sexist, but they have more freedom when it comes to their outfits. That's why it is a bit baffling to see them wearing that kind of stuff.

Like I said before, I think it is out of provocation. Lots of men are negatively reacting to the feminist movements and they do it in different ways. Wearing those kind of t-shirts is one of the, in my opinion.

It is a big mistery to me as well!!!

Sometimes I think the women who lived that life or were part of that scene are not willing to talk because they are either too wasted now or still defent that lifestyle. Many of those women are now what... like in their 50s? and I know lots of them do not like feminism or do not want to be associated with it. It is the younger generation that's carrying the flag now.

 

Not quite. Steven Tylor’s ex girlfriend / groupie who also was a minor at the time and whom he talked into abortion did write a book about her life. Only read a view excerpts. Painful to read. Don’t know if Steven reacted to it or not. There are voices out there but they don’t participate in the movement. I don’t understand why. We know that Niven and Doug paid a lot of people to remain silent. Mybe those people fear legal stuff? Or they are still to wasted or to down to become public and open about it. 

Just now, Santacruz said:

Why does it take so long? Maybe there is still a lot of sexism and hatred towards women in this society. And the Rock scene or the Music industry seem to be islands where men ( some , NOT all)  can act like they want because of "artistic freedom".It's a very comfortable and secure playground for men under this aspect.  

 

The bolded: yep

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

There are voices out there but they don’t participate in the movement. I don’t understand why. We know that Niven and Doug paid a lot of people to remain silent. Mybe those people fear legal stuff? Or they are still to wasted or to down to become public and open about it. 

That's what I meant..... and I have no answers for it.

I assume there's not a safe network for them to come out all together and say something without ending in lawsuits they cannot handle.

[beautifulanddamned]

I'm going to say this carefully, but in part the rock guys are untouchable because the groupie scene has muddied the waters to an unbelievable extent. Many (not all) women were active participants in their own degradation back then. Many weren't, but it's extremely hard for them to rise above that image. Roxana Shirazi can call herself a feminist all she wants, but her behavior muddies the waters. Why does Axl still wear those ridiculous t-shirts? Because he can, baby.

[alfierose]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Ladies, let’s try to keep things somewhat respectful.

There’s having a laugh and then there’s crossing a line that is best avoided.  

Fair to critique someone’s fashion; not fair to associate that person with a sexual predator because of it. 

I just want to comment on how important what downzy said here is. I can't reiterate enough that whilst many people in and with the band are public figures this does not mean you can say whatever you want without consequence.

Most of the time this thread is good humoured but occasionally it goes too far with no good reason. Please consider before you post as to whether something you say could be viewed as defamatory even if you meant it in jest.

Myself and now @janrichmond are going to be keeping a closer eye out for discussion of this nature and any hint will be shut down immediately.

[Santacruz]

12 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

I'm going to say this carefully, but in part the rock guys are untouchable because the groupie scene has muddied the waters to an unbelievable extent. Many (not all) women were active participants in their own degradation back then. Many weren't, but it's extremely hard for them to rise above that image. Roxana Shirazi can call herself a feminist all she wants, but her behavior muddies the waters. Why does Axl still wear those ridiculous t-shirts? Because he can, baby.

Yes, but as you can see in this fan forum: now there are a lot of women ( and maybe men) who find these shirts quite silly and sexist. It is a matter of awareness. And for a lot of people those shirts do nothing for him as a person , rock star or man.  The majority of people feel different than they did 20 years ago. Which is a good sign, there def. is a positive development.

Groupies: well I think it would be interesting to analyse what makes women becoming a part of a scenery where they are treated like objects. Maybe because they are looking for "strong" men ( father figures)  or they learned that the most important thing is to please other people and get attention for that? I tried the band groupie thing 15 minutes in my teen years and then I left the rehearsal room thinking: these boring idiots...:-)

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Santacruz

[Georgina Arriaga]

Did you notice that yesterday Vanessa was in Aalten? Did you know who live in Aalten? Angus!!!! I bet Axl was with him....and hope to see him guest tonight.

[killuridols]

18 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Myself and now @janrichmond are going to be keeping a closer eye out for discussion of this nature and any hint will be shut down immediately.

I agree but please don't make us all pay for one, if just one person makes a mistake.... each of us have differing opinions on this matter, even if most of us, kind of almost agree on most things regarding the topic.

Not trying to justify anyone, I think the call out was fine. It's just that it feels we are always walking on the edge

Edited June 12, 2018 by killuridols

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

I agree but please don't make us all pay for one, if just one person makes a mistake.... each of us have differing opinions on this matter, even if most of us, kind of almost agree on most things regarding the topic.

Not trying to justify anyone, I think the call out was fine. It's just that it feels we are always walking on the edge

Not trying to do that. We are trying to protect all of you who post in this thread, we don't want any trouble for us or you from throwaway comments that can seriously offend.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

2 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Did you notice that yesterday Vanessa was in Aalten? Did you know who live in Aalten? Angus!!!! I bet Axl was with him....and hope to see him guest tonight.

Yeah, she tagged Angus’ wife, well obviously what her kid calls his wife. So, they must’ve gone to see Angus at home yesterday. 

Love his guest appearances and his relationship with Axl. 

[Alja]

That tee reminds me trip to Vegas, as the sun went down on Strip, there were middle age fat Latino ladies everywhere with exact this style signs on bright tees offering younger girls. For me is more appealing when women do so to other women.

On that little guy for me it looks silly and rather wannabe`s pose.  But whatever. Wear whatever you want and bear consequences. Unleashed sex is part of sex-drugs-rock`n`roll mythology and they may be sober and faithful, but there`s still that illusion they sell. Some may want to reach, but not usually those who were there and survived. Take it or let be. 

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, alfierose said:

Not trying to do that. We are trying to protect all of you who post in this thread, we don't want any trouble for us or you from throwaway comments that can seriously offend.

I didn't say anything wrong and got my whole comment wiped

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

I didn't say anything wrong and got my whole comment wiped

Fair enough. I've reinstated the comment, it was more of an attempt to move the conversation on than anything you specifically posted. Apologies 

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, alfierose said:

Fair enough. I've reinstated the comment, it was more of an attempt to move the conversation on than anything you specifically posted. Apologies 

Thank you and omg now I feel bad for telling you that! 

You can remove the part that might provoke a rehashing of the conversation, if you consider it appropiate.

I was more sad because I replied to other people in the same comment.

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, beautifulanddamned said:

It's hard to talk in practical terms about Slash's divorce for the same reason it is hard to talk in practical terms about Izzy's lack of inclusion in GnR. This does not seem like real money to people like us. It seems like Monopoly money. Most of us could live pretty well for the rest of our lives on a 1 million dollar windfall. But these people have very different lives. So you have a 7 million dollar house in LA. Do you know how much money it takes to air condition a house like that in Southern California? How many maids do you need to keep it clean? How many landscapers do you need to keep it lush in the heat? What are property taxes like? How much in furnishings? What kind of cars are in the garage? What kinds of clothing are in the closets? What kind of private schools are your kids going to? Are you funding their music/modeling careers? How many lawyers and accountants do you have to keep on hand to manage this amount of cash? The amount of money these guys are taking in and putting out each month is mind boggling. None of them, including their spouses, girlfriends and children, live like we do.

Also, I think Slash will pay out somewhat for Perla's silence. Slash is no angel. Perla was with him for a long time- and he wasn't sober for a lot of it. She's seen and heard some shit.

Brent Fitz told me once that Slash "is simply in a different tax bracket than the rest of us." 

That's still an insane amount of money to shell out every month. With a deal like that Perla is set for life. The kids aren't too bad off either.

[Georgina Arriaga]

16 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Yeah, she tagged Angus’ wife, well obviously what her kid calls his wife. So, they must’ve gone to see Angus at home yesterday. 

Love his guest appearances and his relationship with Axl. 

Chris Slade in the podcast that I linked in the Axl/DC thread say very lovely things about Axl....and say that  HE cannot imagine another person taking Brian's place in AC/DC.

[Tori72]

4 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

Brent Fitz told me once that Slash "is simply in a different tax bracket than the rest of us." 

What does it mean? I don’t understand that.

[alfierose]

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Thank you and omg now I feel bad for telling you that! 

You can remove the part that might provoke a rehashing of the conversation, if you consider it appropiate.

I was more sad because I replied to other people in the same comment.

It's fine, I think we've moved on now and put t-shirtgate to rest hopefully.

[MaskingApathy]

48 minutes ago, beautifulanddamned said:

I'm going to say this carefully, but in part the rock guys are untouchable because the groupie scene has muddied the waters to an unbelievable extent. Many (not all) women were active participants in their own degradation back then. Many weren't, but it's extremely hard for them to rise above that image. Roxana Shirazi can call herself a feminist all she wants, but her behavior muddies the waters. Why does Axl still wear those ridiculous t-shirts? Because he can, baby.

That's definitely true. Especially with GnR and a lot of the other 80s bands. I think Slash wears those shirts on stage because it goes with his "image." 

[killuridols]

I like these pics

 

 

 

[MaskingApathy]

5 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

What does it mean? I don’t understand that.

The amount of money that Slash has and that he earns is so much more than the rest of us that when he does his taxes he's in an entirely different bracket than the rest of us. Like a whole different level of income and assets.

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I like these pics

 

 

 

The last photo is my favorite. They're so cute together.

[GingerHair]

58 minutes ago, Santacruz said:

Groupies: well I think it would be interesting to analyse what makes women becoming a part of a scenery where they are treated like objects. Maybe because they are looking for "strong" men ( father figures)  or they learned that the most important thing is to please other people and get attention for that? I tried the band groupie thing 15 minutes in my teen years and then I left the rehearsal room thinking: these boring idiots...:-)

 

My personal take, from hearing/reading about them, they seem to be girls who loved the music scene, loved the lifestyle but didn't find a place to stand on their own, if it's wasn't by hanging out with a men who was already in the industry. 

Maybe because the music industry (specially rock) can afford to be so gender oriented to men, women didn't developed into enough big weight to carry a flag equivalent to the #metoo movement. It'd be like asking a regular woman (the groupie), with no big Hollywood career give her credibility, to stand on her own against someone much richer and more powerful. In no time, she'd be slut-shammed, people saying that she's doing it for spotlight and/or money.  For example, I just cannot picture someone like Barbie Von Greiff, Adriana Smith or Juliana Sedbrook (just to mention some of the groupies we are familiar with) having emotional or financial chance to stand against a big named musician.

Edit: I am not trying to say that the groupie /sexist issue is isolated to GNR at all. I just gave those names as examples because they are the ones I am more familiar with.

Edited June 12, 2018 by GingerHair