Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 As crazy as it may sound, ISIS is claiming it for the 3rd-4th time...just released their weekly news letter and claimed it again....said he converted 6 months ago... Reporters who have been following ISIS say that it's unlike them to be this insistent...and that more times than not, there are attacks that they don't claim vs claim....so for them to claim this one multiple times is opening up some eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: As crazy as it may sound, ISIS is claiming it for the 3rd-4th time...just released their weekly news letter and claimed it again....said he converted 6 months ago... Reporters who have been following ISIS say that it's unlike them to be this insistent...and that more times than not, there are attacks that they don't claim vs claim....so for them to claim this one multiple times is opening up some eyes Surely he’d have gotten a book out from the library...or bought one...or went and prayed in a mosque...or googled some Islam thing...something, anything. Unless I guess it was with the express intention of fuckin’ folks up that he got into it and hence didnt do anything to leave tracks. But even then, there just has to be a little of something somewhere. I guess shit’ll come out in the coming days. I guess anythings possible. Its becoming quite the mystery. Radicalisation is such a weird concept, the idea that there are that many people that you can like, talk into killing a fuckload of people, deeply unsettling. Edited October 6, 2017 by Len Cnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Surely he’d have gotten a book out from the library...or bought one...or went and prayed in a mosque...or googled some Islam thing...something, anything. Unless I guess it was with the express intention of fuckin’ folks up that he got into it and hence didnt do anything to leave tracks. But even then, there just has to be a little of something somewhere. I guess shit’ll come out in the coming days. I guess anythings possible. Its becoming quite the mystery. Radicalisation is such a weird concept, the idea that there are that many people that you can like, talk into killing a fuckload of people, deeply unsettling. The ISIS connection doesn't make sense to me and the timeline still doesn't fit....he started stockpiling weapons about a year ago....so unless he had already begun to think about it, then converted 6 months later...the timeline doesn't fit. Like you said though, I guess you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Quote The ISIS connection doesn't make sense to me and the timeline still doesn't fit....he started stockpiling weapons about a year ago Didn't know that...then they're chattin' shit most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Radicalisation is such a weird concept, the idea that there are that many people that you can like, talk into killing a fuckload of people, deeply unsettling. It is unsettling and not just from an Islamic point of view, there's a valid argument that someone like Elliot Rodgers was also radicalised by a very narrow world view. Another aspect to this that is rarely tackled head on is cultural male violence. Yes, before I get shouted down for this I realise 'not all men' and that occasionally women do horrific stuff too or are implicated as complicit in violent crimes. However I believe something like 90 odd % of violent crime is male and no one ever hears first reports of a lone shooter and thinks it's probably a woman who did it. This is an issue the world over but for the west it's particularly a problem in the US because of access to guns. If banning guns is really off the table ( I don't think it should be btw) then this is the next conversation that should be going on and not just within feminist groups. I read earlier about a street artist who has mocked Jimmy Kimmel for appearing publicly emotional about recent events, he was derided as having an estrogen problem. It's misogynistic crap like this that causes some men to feel their only or most socially acceptable outlet for frustration or unhappiness is rage, sometimes turned inwards contributing to a high suicide rate but often outwards towards murder or murder/suicide. I don't have any easy answers but the debate should be out there and ongoing. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, alfierose said: It is unsettling and not just from an Islamic point of view, there's a valid argument that someone like Elliot Rodgers was also radicalised by a very narrow world view. Another aspect to this that is rarely tackled head on is cultural male violence. Yes, before I get shouted down for this I realise 'not all men' and that occasionally women do horrific stuff too or are implicated as complicit in violent crimes. However I believe something like 90 odd % of violent crime is male and no one ever hears first reports of a lone shooter and thinks it's probably a woman who did it. This is an issue the world over but for the west it's particularly a problem in the US because of access to guns. If banning guns is really off the table ( I don't think it should be btw) then this is the next conversation that should be going on and not just within feminist groups. I read earlier about a street artist who has mocked Jimmy Kimmel for appearing publicly emotional about recent events, he was derided as having an estrogen problem. It's misogynistic crap like this that causes some men to feel their only or most socially acceptable outlet for frustration or unhappiness is rage, sometimes turned inwards contributing to a high suicide rate but often outwards towards murder or murder/suicide. I don't have any easy answers but the debate should be out there and ongoing. I get what you're saying but then, playing devils advocate for a minute, the whole idea of rage as a male outlet for emotion was, at least as I know, kind of the same thing in terms of like...I dunno, you lose as many bloke points crying as you do flying into a rage, it's called acting shook, they're both strains of the same thing. I mean the thing to be is cool right, poise, stoic, thats what being a man is about as I've been led to believe. Dealing with things, handling things. Flipping out is as much a bitch (if you'll pardon the expression ) thing to do as crying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I get what you're saying but then, playing devils advocate for a minute, the whole idea of rage as a male outlet for emotion was, at least as I know, kind of the same thing in terms of like...I dunno, you lose as many bloke points crying as you do flying into a rage, it's called acting shook, they're both strains of the same thing. I mean the thing to be is cool right, poise, stoic, thats what being a man is about as I've been led to believe. Dealing with things, handling things. Flipping out is as much a bitch (if you'll pardon the expression ) thing to do as crying. That and it's in our genes...men have been the defenders/aggressors since the cave man days....testosterone gets going, etc....human nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: I get what you're saying but then, playing devils advocate for a minute, the whole idea of rage as a male outlet for emotion was, at least as I know, kind of the same thing in terms of like...I dunno, you lose as many bloke points crying as you do flying into a rage, it's called acting shook, they're both strains of the same thing. I mean the thing to be is cool right, poise, stoic, thats what being a man is about as I've been led to believe. Dealing with things, handling things. Flipping out is as much a bitch (if you'll pardon the expression ) thing to do as crying. I understand but that's part of the issue. People aren't robots so when being stoic fails what is the less damaging response? Getting upset or getting violent? No one ever died because some guy had a good cry as an outlet. Unless you count another man offing him for being 'a big girl'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, alfierose said: I understand but that's part of the issue. People aren't robots so when being stoic fails what is the less damaging response? Getting upset or getting violent? No one ever died because some guy had a good cry as an outlet. Unless you count another man offing him for being 'a big girl'. That's two different emotions imo. There's times I may get watery eyed...something that makes me very sad, etc....but if I didn't get watery eyed, doesn't mean it will make me violent.....then there's times that something may anger me...and I get tense, etc...but that won't make me watery eyed...more like flushed in the face and ready to do some damage.....lol...I'm old enough now not to act out on those emotions, other than maybe a few curse words...then it's usually done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: That and it's in our genes...men have been the defenders/aggressors since the cave man days....testosterone gets going, etc....human nature. All men have testosterone so what's the factor in some men and not others being violent? What about transgender men (female bodied people who take testosterone over long periods)? I haven't heard any stories about them committing violent rage crimes - could that be socialisation? Comparatively there have been numerous cases of transgender women, despite sex reassignment surgery and taking estrogen, that have still committed violent crime or murder. Not wishing this to go down a transgender rabbit hole as it's a small sample size but it is suggestive that it is more nuanced than just testosterone = violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, alfierose said: All men have testosterone so what's the factor in some men and not others being violent? What about transgender men (female bodied people who take testosterone over long periods)? I haven't heard any stories about them committing violent rage crimes - could that be socialisation? Comparatively there have been numerous cases of transgender women, despite sex reassignment surgery and taking estrogen, that have still committed violent crime or murder. Not wishing this to go down a transgender rabbit hole as it's a small sample size but it is suggestive that it is more nuanced than just testosterone = violence. When talking about the violent rage crimes, that has as much to do with mental health, than anything....and when you combine that, with higher levels of testosterone, then you may get "violent rage". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, alfierose said: Not wishing this to go down a transgender rabbit hole as it's a small sample size *cough* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: When talking about the violent rage crimes, that has as much to do with mental health, than anything....and when you combine that, with higher levels of testosterone, then you may get "violent rage". Perhaps so. As I said there isn't an easy answer but I think it would help if more men were open to discussing it especially those in positions that might have an impact. Women going on about it achieves very little it's something that will only be improved if men take the initiative to tackle it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Men are from nature's side more violent than females. It comes down to our genes. But it varies a lot between men, some are more violent than others. Then upbringing and society will try to suppress our violent nature so we who won't be so rapt to react with violence in situations where our forefathers may have. Because it doesn't work well in modern societies. But this suppression only works to some extent, and our base nature is rarely completely nullified. Some of us can still quite easily be provoked into violence. Which is why most violence in this world is committed by men, and not females. In some cultures -- well most, I suppose -- male violence is still to some extent revered and applauded. Men are supposed, expected, to defend their families and loved ones with violence if necessary. Men who can fight are glorified. Just look at MMA. Fighting men are heroes in endless movies, whether it is war or kung-fu movies. So in a sense men live in a world with mixed signals. On one side they are taught that fighting is wrong, yet they are lauded if they are good at it and most men, I suppose, want that particular adoration. So this probably explains why most men are behind gun violence. Men are simply more violent and we want it that way, to some degree. It doesn't explain why some men decide to go on insane killing rampages, though. That comes down to insanity, atrocious beliefs, etc, and, of course, having ready access to instruments of mass killing. But it does explain why it is typically men who commit such massacres. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, alfierose said: I understand but that's part of the issue. People aren't robots so when being stoic fails what is the less damaging response? Getting upset or getting violent? No one ever died because some guy had a good cry as an outlet. Unless you count another man offing him for being 'a big girl'. I dont think being stoic requires you to be a robot, its about control not not having the emotions, you feel things for sure but you dont act on a whim and you handle it and then with the passage of time, whether a little or a lot, you gain some perspective on it. When I lose my rag I’m more apt to have a fight a than think ‘right, now who can i go out and stab?!?’ since guns are banned here. Can't even be fucked doing that now as it goes. Not that its impossible to buy a gun here either, me and my mate chipped in 25 quid a piece and bought a gun in the mid 90s, for no other reason than we could. You’ve got to know the local gyppos and there’s not much you can’t get hold of. Edited October 6, 2017 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Just now, alfierose said: Perhaps so. As I said there isn't an easy answer but I think it would help if more men were open to discussing it especially those in positions that might have an impact. Women going on about it achieves very little it's something that will only be improved if men take the initiative to tackle it. Oh I agree, it's definitely a complex issue...and hundreds of studies have been done on it...and it includes dozens of factors....mental health, social upbringing, alpha vs beta males, testosterone, etc etc etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiraMPD Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: most violence in this world is committed by men, and not females. W.r.t this specifically, are we talking about violence that requires/results in police intervention or violence in general? And what about the overlap? This has always puzzled me as in my life I have come across more violent women than violent men. And yet worldwide most violent crimes are committed by men. Just to clarify - I mean that in my experience, women tend to be the ones to escalate an argument to the point of physical violence (in fact I often fall into this category as well), but I guess they are rarely taken seriously... Edit: I don't think comparing this to people transitioning is fair as those individuals have additional social and psychological issues which would not correlate as well across the board. BTW: Studies have shown that there is a strong positive correlation between testosterone and violent behavior in women. I'll add links to the papers when I have more time. Edited October 6, 2017 by KiraMPD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlRoseCDII Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 ISIS always claims responsibility for mass shootings and other tragic events but more often than not their claims aren't truthful. They seem to just want to use any leverage they can to inject fear. I doubt Paddock had any connection to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, KiraMPD said: W.r.t this specifically, are we talking about violence that requires/results in police intervention or violence in general? And what about the overlap? This has always puzzled me as in my life I have come across more violent women than violent men. And yet worldwide most violent crimes are committed by men. Just to clarify - I mean that in my experience, women tend to be the ones to escalate an argument to the point of physical violence (in fact I often fall into this category as well), but I guess they are rarely taken seriously... I was talking about criminalized violence. But I believe it holds water regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 45 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said: @Len Cnut I cry. Like when I first saw Forest Gump or when my grandmother died, and I'm talking balls to the wall ugly-crying too. ...JAAN! Len thinks I'm not an alpha! @janrichmond I weren’t necessarily saying how i think the world should be but rather how the archetype of masculinity worked...you big poof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Len Cnut said: I weren’t necessarily saying how i think the world should be but rather how the archetype of masculinity worked...you big poof @Len Cnut leave my little Goat alone! Ya great lisping lump 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 38 minutes ago, janrichmond said: @Len Cnut leave my little Goat alone! Ya great lisping lump Why you takin' the fuckin' kiwi's side here, you should be on mine, home team and that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Just now, Len Cnut said: Why you takin' the fuckin' kiwi's side here, you should be on mine, home team and that! I will take your side on almost anything except @Oldest Goat He's like my cyber son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, janrichmond said: I will take your side on almost anything except @Oldest Goat He's like my cyber son Rejected by white society, first step to radicalisation May it weigh heavy on your conscience! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Every day is more shit that comes out about this guy. I doubt anyone will ever find out why he did it. Maybe he wanted to be remembered for doing something horrible. He was a big time gambler. Seeing and hearing his brother say how generous he was taking them to Vegas makes me sick since he's now known as a killer of innocent people. These news people need to stop interview his brother and get answers from his so called g/f. She lawyered up fast, so I'm sure she knows something. This guy bought tons of guns which must have been in his house, so how did she not know? I really hate stupid clueless women who live with a man and know nothing about him or how crazy he is! It seems all we do now is remember horrible events and people who have died by the hand of a crazy bastard. 2 hours ago, Len Cnut said: Rejected by white society, first step to radicalisation May it weigh heavy on your conscience! The fucker was a loner and rich. Please I don't give a shit how you feel, don't kill innocent people. Change your life or stay away from people, but don't kill innocent because you are shunned by society. I wish someone would send me $100,000. 6 hours ago, Oldest Goat said: @Len Cnut I cry. Like when I first saw Forest Gump or when my grandmother died, and I'm talking balls to the wall ugly-crying too. ...JAAN! Len thinks I'm not an alpha! @janrichmond It seems all we do lately is cry. How can you not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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