Has the consensus on Chinese changed since the NITL tour started?

[DieselDaisy]

58 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

The GN’R fanbase can’t agree.

You are correct there haha

[AxlRoseCDII]

52 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Agree 100% on the encore.. They played two in the encore at the Boston show.. 

You did ask if peoples opinions changed didn't you?

I did and to clarify I have no issue with individuals such as yourself who present their opinions properly and respectfully. My issue comes from individuals who, without being concise or respectful of others simply dismiss the idea that Chinese was a part of Guns history and bring up decade old conversations such as “it’s not a real Guns album.” Even the latter statement doesn’t bother me but more so lots of of people are being immature and derailing the thread. If people’s opinions haven’t changed that’s fine. I just wish we, as a fanbase, can respect others opinions and try to stay on topic with the idea of the thread. I always respect your posts and opinions, nothing is directed at you.

[Tom-Ass]

24 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

 I always respect your posts and opinions, nothing is directed at you.

Ditto. You are always level headed and fun to discuss and some times debate all things Gn'R \m/

[themadcaplaughs]

I must admit, it genuinely surprised me that so many people do not understand why Duff and Slash agreed to learn Chinese Democracy songs. The simple answer, as a few others pointed out before me, is they knew it would make Axl happy, and they want to keep the cash train rolling. Do not take that as a criticism, Slash and Duff have every right to reap the profits of Guns N' Roses. To them, I'm sure the time and effort it took to learn those songs has been handsomely rewarded during the past year and a half. Also, as others pointed out, the two of them do seem to genuinely enjoy playing the songs. 

As for all the people pointing out that "Slash and Duff left the band in the 1990s because they did not want learn Axl songs" and "Slash and Duff said they would not come back with Axl unless the AFD five played together," well feelings change and times change. Slash left the band over two decades ago, and Duff just a few years later. I'm sure they've had a lot of time to reconsider their opinions, given sobriety, maturity, and the dump truck full of money they'll earn from this tour. Also, regardless of if the current lineup played Chinese Democracy songs, Slash and Duff would still be playing without Izzy and Steven. I'd love to see those two in as well, and it seems like the band considered this at different times, but for whatever reasons, Duff and Slash decided they felt comfortable moving on without Izzy and Steven. Rumors have bounced around since 2009/2010 that both Duff and Slash were interested in rejoining the band, no matter who else played. Hell, Duff pretty much rejoined in 2014 when the only other member left from his time was Dizzy Reed. 

Once more, this is not meant to be a criticism of Duff or Slash. This remains a music business, and I'm sure the two of them knew learning Chinese Democracy would be a great way to make Axl happy, bury the hatchet, and show that they had matured. As others pointed out, Axl even said this encouraged him to play songs like "Coma" which Slash wanted to play. As for why Guns N' Roses do not play Slash's Snakepit or Velvet Revolver songs, well, Axl calls the shots (whether we like that or not). I'm sure he has his reasons for wanting to keep the set list relegated to Guns N' Roses songs (of any era) and covers of artists not related to GN'R. If Slash and Duff feel that strongly about playing those songs, they can play them at their own shows or relaunch Velvet Revolver.  

Even if Duff and Slash absolutely detest playing Chinese Democracy songs (and they do not appear to), I'm sure the thrill of playing to huge audiences and playing classics with Axl singing more than makes up for the 20 to 25 minutes each night playing newer songs. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by themadcaplaughs

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

3 hours ago, Bono said:

Holy fuck. The exact point of the thread is asking if people's opinions have changed and you're pissed of that the majority of the people commenting are saying no, they still don't like CD? Your original post is literally asking for opinions and you feel only those who's opinion has changed or hasn't changed but are in favour of CD regardless should comment. 

I guess it really pains some of you that CD never did grow on people the way so many claimed it would. I remember laughing so badly at people back in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2013, 2014 etc etc etc who continually claimed that over time CD would gain appreciation and gain cult like status and finally be considered a legendary album after all the initial hate died down.  Hate that people claimed wasn't genuine and was only fueled by Slash not being in the band. Must suck to realize this is never gonna happen and that the vast majority of people who have listened to or ever will listen to CD think it fucking sucks. 

Reality is a bitch. If you don't wanna hear opinions on CD then don't fucking start threads asking for opinions on CD. Or at least throw up a disclaimer stating only those expressing an opinion which glorifies the word of your Lord and saviour Axl Rose are permitted to comment. I mean for god's sake. You start a thread asking if people's opinions on CD have changed now and then get bent out of shape when the answer is no and ask for the thread to be locked? GTFO. 

100% this. 

This is what I wanted to say but couldn't be fucked because I just don't give a shit about CD. 

[RONIN]

3 hours ago, themadcaplaughs said:

I must admit, it genuinely surprised me that so many people do not understand why Duff and Slash agreed to learn Chinese Democracy songs. The simple answer, as a few others pointed out before me, is they knew it would make Axl happy, and they want to keep the cash train rolling. Do not take that as a criticism, Slash and Duff have every right to reap the profits of Guns N' Roses. To them, I'm sure the time and effort it took to learn those songs has been handsomely rewarded during the past year and a half. Also, as others pointed out, the two of them do seem to genuinely enjoy playing the songs. 

Hmm...- not sure if that's entirely the case but they're definitely putting on a good show of it. Slash's assessment of Chinese Democracy in the past has been diplomatic if anything - and paraphrasing his words, "an album the old band could never have made". I'm in agreement with you though that it's to keep young Axl happy and hedge against him potentially taking his ball and going home.  Whatever it takes to keep the cash flowing.

Quote

As for all the people pointing out that "Slash and Duff left the band in the 1990s because they did not want learn Axl songs" and "Slash and Duff said they would not come back with Axl unless the AFD five played together," well feelings change and times change. Slash left the band over two decades ago, and Duff just a few years later. I'm sure they've had a lot of time to reconsider their opinions, given sobriety, maturity, and the dump truck full of money they'll earn from this tour. Also, regardless of if the current lineup played Chinese Democracy songs, Slash and Duff would still be playing without Izzy and Steven. I'd love to see those two in as well, and it seems like the band considered this at different times, but for whatever reasons, Duff and Slash decided they felt comfortable moving on without Izzy and Steven. Rumors have bounced around since 2009/2010 that both Duff and Slash were interested in rejoining the band, no matter who else played. Hell, Duff pretty much rejoined in 2014 when the only other member left from his time was Dizzy Reed. 

Well as recently as a few years back, Duff and Slash were talking about a reunion only with the original 5. But that doesn't mean much since Slash has been angling to get back into GnR since the "Live Era" days when his solo career was going nowhere fast. Duff appeared to also have a change of heart post-VR given his generous assessment of Axl in his watered down book. As you said - "the dump truck full of money" was a powerful motivator.

Quote

Once more, this is not meant to be a criticism of Duff or Slash. This remains a music business, and I'm sure the two of them knew learning Chinese Democracy would be a great way to make Axl happy, bury the hatchet, and show that they had matured. As others pointed out, Axl even said this encouraged him to play songs like "Coma" which Slash wanted to play. As for why Guns N' Roses do not play Slash's Snakepit or Velvet Revolver songs, well, Axl calls the shots (whether we like that or not). I'm sure he has his reasons for wanting to keep the set list relegated to Guns N' Roses songs (of any era) and covers of artists not related to GN'R. If Slash and Duff feel that strongly about playing those songs, they can play them at their own shows or relaunch Velvet Revolver.  

That's nice that Duff and Slash are trying to make Axl happy unlike the old days when they actually had a backbone. It would be nice if Axl showed them the same professional courtesy and learned one or two VR songs or met them half-way and sang a few tunes originally meant for GnR like Fall to Pieces. But I guess Axl's already doing them a favor by agreeing to a reunion. It only took decimating the enormous GnR fanbase and his credibility/finances going into the toilet before that happened.

But this was already forseen back in 2001. The prophetic words of the man, the myth, the legend - Mr. Izzy Stradlin' :

A hypothetical question then: Axl’s [solo] album flops, and he offers you all the chance to get back together - just like Aerosmith and Black Sabbath - would you do it? I mean, assuming Axl would be… “… broke?” he cuts in with a laugh. “I could hear the call.” Goes into gruff Axl impersonation: “‘You know, I've been, ah, thinking’. He talks really slow when he gets an idea like that. ‘Aahhh, I've been thinking…’ And I'd be thinking, ‘He must be broke’,” he chuckles. “That’s how I imagine the call.” - Classic Rock #28, June 2001

Edited November 9, 2017 by RONIN

[Gackt]

4 hours ago, themadcaplaughs said:

The simple answer, as a few others pointed out before me, is they knew it would make Axl happy, and they want to keep the cash train rolling.

That's the genuine short answer, Slash & Duff are making enough money from this tour to not care at all what they have to perform as long as they're getting paid their millions for it

Nobody is going to out-backstage politic Axl Rose (except for maybe Angus Young), either he gets his way or there's no way.  

[RussTCB]

This whole "they did it to make money" line of reasoning is easily debunked by the fact that Slash said he liked the album when it was released. 

[RussTCB]

Oh, and Duff played on CD songs long before there was a "big pay day" in it. 

[Gackt]

5 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

This whole "they did it to make money" line of reasoning is easily debunked by the fact that Slash said he liked the album when it was released. 

I'll take back the reasoning when Slash covers a ChiDem song outside of a GNR concert  seems fair enough

Edited November 9, 2017 by Gackt

[AxlRoseCDII]

@RussTCB makes an excellent point about Duff playing CD songs. 2014 GN’R wasn’t making a tenth the money the current tour is and Duff was playing nearly half the album (even Shacklers). I remember him complementing Chinese at this time period as well.

[RussTCB]

20 minutes ago, Gackt said:

I'll take back the reasoning when Slash covers a ChiDem song outside of a GNR concert  seems fair enough

Nah, lol

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

This whole "they did it to make money" line of reasoning is easily debunked by the fact that Slash said he liked the album when it was released. 

Because he wanted to get back in GnR.  

And the reason he wanted back in?

[Gunsdrummer63]

21 hours ago, BOSSY78 said:

I know you didn't ask me but I think its for a few reasons. 1 being most bands if not all play songs from their newest album Chinese being the newest album. 2 Axl has always played them and it seems Slash and Duff wish to as well. Slash seems to enjoy giving his own twists to some of them. 3 is rather us long time fans like it or not there is some people who are younger and became fans of CD. There may not be as many as the long term fans but there is definitely newer fans. This forum has some in fact. I mean newer as in CD newer. And finally perhaps so many peiole who complained before about not liking the songs cause Slash wasn't on them might actually enjoy them now or give them a second chance.

If a band wants to stay fresh they need to keep growing fans. That means target other age groups.

From what I've observed at the show I saw or others telling me fans overall at the concerts are enjoying the CD songs. We have to remember GnR has many many more fans outside of this forum and Ive heard other Countries really enjoy CD.

I also want to add why wouldn't an artist wish to play music from all his CDs? Do you know how many concerts ive attended where bands only play from the newest album? Plenty bands would play newest album and only throw in a song or two from previous. Guns is mixing it up.

 

This is probably the most accurate thing i've seen on the forum. Couldn't agree more. That's why they do covers. They want to keep it fresh and tackle songs they want to play. They obviously like the set list if they haven't changed it too much. Shouldn't that be all the matters. They are entertaining us by playing music. Would anyone want to see a concert where the musicians didn't like what they were playing? Probably not. Again I think age is also a factor. I feel like the younger population is more receptive to CD then the older population. Im a college student and liked CD before slash and Duff playing the songs. Now i really enjoy CD because of them playing it. Before i saw CD as axl's solo album. Now I see it as a GNR album.

[Edward Nygma]

Do you guys think the worldwide sales/popularity of CD will improve since its out there to a wider audience? Compare audiences from the Appetite For Democracy tour and compared to the vast audience of the current NITL tour, resurgence of CD could give Axl/GNR the confidence to release what he feels is the next chapter or whatever. 

[DizzyReed63]

It hasn't changed my opinion on the album, which is complicated but mostly positive.

What I've taken away the most is that they seem to have some fun playing the songs. It has to feel fresh for Duff and Slash to put their spin on it. "Better" especially is a song they have taken on and created a new kick-ass intro. At the shows, I love that, because it's not just them covering it.

Sure, there are a few things I like better that this guy did, yada yada, but I'm glad they play them. There are Appetite Fans, Lies Fans, UYI Fans, maybe End of Days soundtrack fans..., Chinese fans. This tour appeals to everyone. And that's cool w/ me.

[AxlRoseCDII]

4 minutes ago, DizzyReed63 said:

It hasn't changed my opinion on the album, which is complicated but mostly positive.

What I've taken away the most is that they seem to have some fun playing the songs. It has to feel fresh for Duff and Slash to put their spin on it. "Better" especially is a song they have taken on and created a new kick-ass intro. At the shows, I love that, because it's not just them covering it.

Sure, there are a few things I like better that this guy did, yada yada, but I'm glad they play them. There are Appetite Fans, Lies Fans, UYI Fans, maybe End of Days soundtrack fans..., Chinese fans. This tour appeals to everyone. And that's cool w/ me.

Does such a type exist?  

[double talkin jive mfkr]

On 11/8/2017 at 6:48 PM, RussTCB said:

This whole "they did it to make money" line of reasoning is easily debunked by the fact that Slash said he liked the album when it was released. 

he's lying he doesn't like it and lies to please axl - he had started sucking up to axl in the press during those post CD years 

before he had said outright that it would suck before it came out - those are his true thoughts 

they are simply doing it for cash to please axl and have no hiccups 

as for the general fan base, they hate CD and most people go take leaks during the songs 

[RussTCB]

8 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

he's lying he doesn't like it and lies to please axl - he had started sucking up to axl in the press during those post CD years 

before he had said outright that it would suck before it came out - those are his true thoughts 

they are simply doing it for cash to please axl and have no hiccups 

as for the general fan base, they hate CD and most people go take leaks during the songs 

 I'm glad I don't live in the same world you do 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Huge fan of Chinese. I don’t think there’s wild improvement in the perception of the album with the general public (most I would imagine are indifferent/oblivious TBH- or unaware that it’s up for reconsideration). More like an incremental “acceptance” of the record as part of the “official Guns discography” by some portion of the”holdout”  fan base and media now that Slash and Duff are playing it in stadiums. Better than nothing...

Maybe if the whole Chinese-era can be accepted as sort of an “Axl Rose Rock Odyssey” within Guns N‘ Roses (and not outside of it)- everyone (including the band) can finally move on- especially now with key components (Slash n’ Duff) back onboard...

Edited November 23, 2017 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[double talkin jive mfkr]

10 hours ago, RussTCB said:

 I'm glad I don't live in the same world you do 

yeah 

if im not mistaken you wanted the CD era to just keep going on right? CDII ya i'm really excited for that now especially when all 5 originals made the only fucking worthy music that is raking it for this tour - i find it enormously hypocritical to prance to Axl's insecurities playing CD as freebie extra 'values' for this tour to go on and to the demise of real fans that actually want to hear at least some of the old magic rather than a metropolis of fascist led members tinkering around with chevy novas of songs 

Edited November 24, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[AxlRoseCDII]

18 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

he's lying he doesn't like it and lies to please axl - he had started sucking up to axl in the press during those post CD years 

before he had said outright that it would suck before it came out - those are his true thoughts 

they are simply doing it for cash to please axl and have no hiccups 

as for the general fan base, they hate CD and most people go take leaks during the songs 

Source?

No disrespect but that’s a blatant lie.

[Natty]

The songs on cd are awful. I didn t like the melody / musical direction / strange sound when it came out and i still don t like it. why? because the songs are not hardrock and I dont dig that musical style.

you asked and you received answers you dont like. majority of gnr fans (casual plus die hards) dont like cd and its not a matter of who plays the instruments.. its just bad taste music.

all other gnr albums rock. cd is what? nu industrial axl rose confutius  dont knowwhat style? I love axl voice and I went to the shows also during nu guns era but not to hear cd songs but to hear gnr songs. the songs that made 90% of the fan base falling in love with gnr. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

21 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Source?

No disrespect but that’s a blatant lie.

much music 2001 i believe 

interview that's probably difficult to find 

he said "it would suck" re:CD

 

 he's wearing blue shade glasses with a base ball cap backwards 

 

i thought to myself well that just cost you 10-15 years before a reunion for saying that 

Edited November 24, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Tonto]

27 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

much music 2001 i believe 

interview that's probably difficult to find 

he said "it would suck" re:CD

 

 he's wearing blue shade glasses with a base ball cap backwards 

 

i thought to myself well that just cost you 10-15 years before a reunion for saying that 

He might have said it would suck, as in, it would suck if he released an album under the GN'R name but none of them ever said it would suck, as in it would be a bad record. It wasn't and even when they weren't talking they praised it. Why not take them at their word? They thought it was a good record. Maybe you don't think that, cool.