General Chat / Random Musings - 2021

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Chris1989 said:

Less moral and circumstances have changed are not mutually exclusive.

True, but that means you have to present an argument that accounts for the fact that we could talk about changing circumstances and not a change in morals.

[SoulMonster]

Morals change over time. It was considered immoral to divorce before, it isn't today. We have to agree on what is "good morals" to discuss whether it has somehow deteriorated recently, and then we have to account for changing circumstances (e.g., there will be more theft when people are starving, that doesn't mean people have become less moral).

As far as I am concerned, things like empathy, compassion, selflessness, kindness, are more universal and fixed virtues across time and regions. The question is, are people less empathic, compassionate, selflessness, kind today than, say, 5 years ago, or 20 or 50, also when accounting for changing circumstances? If you can provide evidence for that, then yes, I will agree that we are becoming less moral. 

[action]

I don't believe there exists such a thing as universal morals, neither in time, neither in space.

Morals change per individual. Acting morally, is acting according to your own personal set of moral rules. If you can look in the mirror every day, live without regrets, then nobody should tell you, you acted wrongly. I also believe, this is the way people will be judged in the afterlife. God does not bother with man made morals that are enforced in a given society. It would be a silly concept, if you think of it. As if, god would judge the mayans more harshly for sacrificing people. Universal morals do not exist.

Everyone has their "personal" god that follows them their entire life, kind of like the concept of "karma" in some cultures; and I fully subscribe to that theory. To me, it's pretty obvious what is good and what is wrong. I seem to be disagreeing a lot lately, with the "modern victim crowd" about morality though. The above theory could provide a solution to that problem.

 

[downzy]

3 hours ago, Chris1989 said:

now teenage pregnancies are just "part of life"

Pretty sure that's not a new development.  What year do you think this is?  1976?

Also, teen pregnancies are fraction of what they use to be:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/259518/birth-rate-among-us-teenagers/

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, downzy said:

Pretty sure that's not a new development.  What year do you think this is?  1976?

Also, teen pregnancies are fraction of what they use to be:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/259518/birth-rate-among-us-teenagers/

See now were talking. Actual statistics.

That's why I asked him for a link to the "growing" crime rates. Because facts matter.

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, Shacklermyrye said:

See now were talking. Actual statistics.

That's why I asked him for a link to the "growing" crime rates. Because facts matter.

Most people don't care about those.

You'll often hear Republicans chastise Chicago or San Francisco as crime-ridden hell scapes that are the product of woke progressivism run amuck.  Then you look at what cities actually have the worst rates of homicide, rape, assault, theft, etc. and it's more often than not cities in red states (Memphis, TN; Birmingham, AL; St. Louise, MO, etc).  Even the most dangerous city in America by most metrics, Detroit, was largely run by Republican administrators appointed by the Republican governor at the time.  

Too often take complicated and nuanced issues and wedge them into whatever narrative they want to spin.  And if/when you challenge them on it, they'll either question the legitimacy of your sources, resort to name calling, or bug out completely and ask that you no longer talk to them.  

[Guest]

Just now, downzy said:

Most people don't care about those.

You'll often hear Republicans chastise Chicago or San Francisco as crime-ridden hell scapes that are the product of woke progressivism run amuck.  Then you look at what cities actually have the worst rates of homicide, rape, assault, theft, etc. and it's more often than not cities in red states (Memphis, TN; Birmingham, AL; St. Louise, MO, etc).  Even the most dangerous city in America by most metrics, Detroit, was largely run by Republican administrators appointed by the Republican governor at the time.  

Too often take complicated and nuanced issues and wedge them into whatever narrative they want to spin.  And if/when you challenge them on it, they'll either question the legitimacy of your sources, resort to name calling, or bug out completely and ask that you no longer talk to them.  

Hmm interesting so if for example the states were to break up as someone like Marjory Taylor Green has suggested into blue and Red states then the Blue states would be fine and the Red ones would struggle.

Not to mention that geograpiclly it just couldn't work.

 

[downzy]

13 minutes ago, Shacklermyrye said:

Hmm interesting so if for example the states were to break up as someone like Marjory Taylor Green has suggested into blue and Red states then the Blue states would be fine and the Red ones would struggle.

Not to mention that geograpiclly it just couldn't work.

 

I wouldn’t say that.  Just pointing out that crime doesn’t follow a left or right politics.  Fentanyl, meth and the new synthetic drugs that are crushing people everywhere where doesn’t care about the partisan leanings of one city or state with another.  

[janrichmond]

I was a teenage mum, my kids are now all adults and they are all very successful and happy, they've never been in trouble, never been on the dole. I don't do religion but I have good morals and common sense, as do my kids. Fuck generalisations.

[Dazey]

4 hours ago, janrichmond said:

I was a teenage mum, my kids are now all adults and they are all very successful and happy, they've never been in trouble, never been on the dole. I don't do religion but I have good morals and common sense, as do my kids. Fuck generalisations.

Whereas I waited until well into my 30's and I have no morals or common sense.  

[SoulMonster]

This was a good read and should put this whole stupid discussion to rest: https://imagine5.com/articles/moral-decline-the-myth-that-wont-go-away/

[SoulMonster]

I have so much morals I am positively sanctimonious. 

[action]

sexual morals have certainly changed, but for the worse

metoo has effectively catapulted us back to paulian christian morals. Flirting is out of the question, sex between man and woman is taboo and evil.

then you've got the LGBT movement, for whom hetero sex is not part of their vocabulary anyway.

the result of all of this?

men afraid to flirt with women and women being told they should act like a victim when the subject of flirting

the progressive movement of the late 60s, a real progressive movement, has been expertly deconstructed.

all that's missing , is women wearing a burqua

[janrichmond]

59 minutes ago, action said:

sexual morals have certainly changed, but for the worse

metoo has effectively catapulted us back to paulian christian morals. Flirting is out of the question, sex between man and woman is taboo and evil.

then you've got the LGBT movement, for whom hetero sex is not part of their vocabulary anyway.

the result of all of this?

men afraid to flirt with women and women being told they should act like a victim when the subject of flirting

the progressive movement of the late 60s, a real progressive movement, has been expertly deconstructed.

all that's missing , is women wearing a burqua

Are you really this stupid? You have to be trolling because if you actually do think like that then you need to get outside and mix with real people. 

[action]

35 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Are you really this stupid? You have to be trolling because if you actually do think like that then you need to get outside and mix with real people. 

there is nothing progressive about the metoo movement, it's really a conservative, backwards movement. the net result is less sexual freedom, the freedom that women fought for in the late 60s. We're straight back to the 50s. If Elvis came on television today, they'd film his from the waist up again. And then, they'd call him a sexual predator on social media.

[downzy]

3 hours ago, action said:

there is nothing progressive about the metoo movement, it's really a conservative, backwards movement. the net result is less sexual freedom, the freedom that women fought for in the late 60s. We're straight back to the 50s. If Elvis came on television today, they'd film his from the waist up again. And then, they'd call him a sexual predator on social media.

Worst. Take. Ever.

Unsurprisingly, you must not be familiar with W.A.P.

Do yourself a favour and go watch literally any hip hop or pop video from the last five years. 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, action said:

then you've got the LGBT movement, for whom hetero sex is not part of their vocabulary anyway.

Your lack of detail in this sentence alone ignores the existence of Bi-sexual people. 

5 hours ago, action said:

all that's missing , is women wearing a burqua

Also your ability to speak sense or make coheseve arguments.

[SoulMonster]

7 hours ago, action said:

sexual morals have certainly changed, but for the worse

metoo has effectively catapulted us back to paulian christian morals. Flirting is out of the question, sex between man and woman is taboo and evil.

then you've got the LGBT movement, for whom hetero sex is not part of their vocabulary anyway.

the result of all of this?

men afraid to flirt with women and women being told they should act like a victim when the subject of flirting

the progressive movement of the late 60s, a real progressive movement, has been expertly deconstructed.

all that's missing , is women wearing a burqua

If you feel that you are not allowed to flirt any more, then you weren't doing it correctly from the beginning. Are you one of those whose only approach to flirting was catcalls and strategically placed sedatives?

And if you believe that sex between men and women is taboo and evil, then you are definitely not going about it the right way, either. One shudders to think how you do sex.

In summary, the problem here isn't changes to society, like an increased awareness of how women are harassed (=#metoo) and an acceptance of the rights of people who are not heterosexual (=LGBT), but you and your inability to adjust to a better society. I see this a lot from primitive, simple men who are not able to move away from their chauvinistic, homophobic and misogynistic ways. They complain about how they are being hamstrung, how they can't go on doing the things they used to do. 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by SoulMonster

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, action said:

If Elvis came on television today, they'd film his from the waist up again. And then, they'd call him a sexual predator on social media.

Because society won't allow men behaving sexually suggestive on TV? Excuse me while I laugh. 

[Chris1989]

21 hours ago, Shacklermyrye said:

See now were talking. Actual statistics.

That's why I asked him for a link to the "growing" crime rates. Because facts matter.

Actually I wasn't talking about a rise in the number of teenage pregnancies, I was talking about how morally people find it acceptable 

Which is totally wrong.

[action]

3 hours ago, downzy said:

Worst. Take. Ever.

Unsurprisingly, you must not be familiar with W.A.P.

Do yourself a favour and go watch literally any hip hop or pop video from the last five years. 

 

tell me then, what metoo has done to benefit the sexual freedom of women? In what ways, has metoo made it easier for women to find a sexual partner?

The flower power movement, you know, your parents, have taken care of that.

what has metoo done to improve on that?

how are company guidelines, that forbid sexual relations on the workfloor, in any way benefitting the liberty and freedom of choice of women?

metoo seems to present, that women are asexual beings who do not want sexual relations with colleagues. This is hopelessly out of touch. This is only only one example of a direct shift to a more conservative society where women are restricted. 

[downzy]

1 hour ago, action said:

tell me then, what metoo has done to benefit the sexual freedom of women? In what ways, has metoo made it easier for women to find a sexual partner?

The flower power movement, you know, your parents, have taken care of that.

what has metoo done to improve on that?

how are company guidelines, that forbid sexual relations on the workfloor, in any way benefitting the liberty and freedom of choice of women?

metoo seems to present, that women are asexual beings who do not want sexual relations with colleagues. This is hopelessly out of touch. This is only only one example of a direct shift to a more conservative society where women are restricted. 

If that's what you're getting from the MeToo movement, you're not reading the room right.

It's not, nor should it be, a binary choice for woman.  Reducing sexual harassment does not and should not come at the expense of finding a mate.

If you're incapable of letting a woman know you're interested without her feeling threatened or coerced, you're not a good option for her in the first place.  The only people who are really losing out in this scenario are the assholes who can't relate to women in a healthy way in the first place.

[janrichmond]

@action have you ever spoken to a woman who is not a family member?  Your thoughts on how women think are laughable.

[Dazey]

3 hours ago, janrichmond said:

@action have you ever spoken to a woman who is not a family member?  

Yeah, his words are usually something like "it rubs the lotion on it's skin, or else it gets the hose again".  

[Powderfinger]

6 hours ago, action said:

tell me then, what metoo has done to benefit the sexual freedom of women? In what ways, has metoo made it easier for women to find a sexual partner?

The flower power movement, you know, your parents, have taken care of that.

what has metoo done to improve on that?

how are company guidelines, that forbid sexual relations on the workfloor, in any way benefitting the liberty and freedom of choice of women?

metoo seems to present, that women are asexual beings who do not want sexual relations with colleagues. This is hopelessly out of touch. This is only only one example of a direct shift to a more conservative society where women are restricted. 

(From my perspective) 

The Metoo movement was not about Womens sexual freedom, it was about appropriate sexual behaviour from Men. IF the flower power generation had dealt with that we wouldn’t see the issues we have over the 50 years since then. Most women I know who go to work do so to earn money to pay their bills like I as a man do. Why would they want to be hit on in the middle of a work day?