Will Smith punches Chris Rock at Oscars

[downzy]

22 minutes ago, cineater said:

That's a statement people say when they are angry.  Anger can be a response to being scared.  In this case unable to control a medical situation.  No sure what's going on with her but it sounds like chemo treatment.  Did you see her face?  A joke is funny when people laugh with you, not when people laugh at you.

Sorry, but how is a comedian suppose to know whether a joke will be received in good sport or not.  There’s almost always someone or something that’s the target of a joke.  I’m not a believer in the idea that any joke is permissible because it was intended as a joke.  Mistakes can happen and Jada would have been easily within her right to walk out or take Rock to task either personally or publicly.  But whether the joke was over the line or not is irrelevant with respect to Will’s response to it. 

I will say that it was a rather dumb thing for Rock to joke about.  Never a great idea to go after the looks of a non-comedian.  And to use dated references is just lazy.  It was a bit of a hack joke that was never going to work.  But until anyone can prove otherwise, it’s a bad take to suggest that Rock knew of Jada’s alopecia and decided to use it as material.  He more than likely didn’t know. 

[Lio]

I found it a lame joke, just like most of the jokes in a scripted environment like the Oscars. But Jada having a bald head is a statement in itself, which I can appreciate. Women who are balding, have a really hard time, it must be devastating. So I applaud a celebrity not wearing a wig or hairpieces to make the whole issue a bit less of a taboo. I would consider her a strong woman for that. In that regard I find Will's reaction humiliating. She can speak for herself. She's not some poor helpless creature he needs to protect.

She shows more balls with her bald head than him with his outburst.

Also, the yelling afterwards scared me a bit. I don't think this was his first slap.

As for all the other assholes comforting Will afterwards: nauseating.

As for Rock: I don't really know him, but I think he handled that really great. His reaction was better than the joke in any case.

[EvanG]

14 hours ago, downzy said:

He was respected and loved in Hollywood, until he decided to smack a presenter over a joke his wife found distasteful.  The apology he gave yesterday was the one he should have given when he got up to accept his award (despite the fact he should have been booted prior to it being announced).

It's funny that outside of this thread I have seen a lot more understanding about the situation from all sorts of different people. Which is not to condone the violence and that Smith didn't fuck up, but that it's understandable someone can blow a fuse considering there is a history between Rock and Jada and now he even included her medical condition in a joke. So yeah, one fuck up usually doesn't make someone, especially people in that room who have probably known him for years as a stand up person, to immediately turn on him. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by EvanG

[action]

chris rock is never in the wrong. it's a joke, and many jokes come at the expense of people. 

I had a blind friend back in the day and I constantly made fun of his lack of vision. "Look at that hot babe over there!" I said to him. He saw the joke.

Big fucking deal!

stop sugarcoating people with disabilities and make fun of it and lighten the fuck up.

it's ok to make a joke about a woman who looks like GI jane. it would be a sad world if that wasn't allowed anymore. Wait a minute; it already is!

it all started with the woman who couldn't handle a joke about her appearance. If you can't handle that, then you shouldn't have even been there in the first place. Stay at home, then nobody will make fun of your hair!

Smith initially took it for what it was; a joke. But then, he saw his butthurt wife, and shit hit the fan. He then hit rock and shouted obsceneties, but if you watch closely smith is even struggling to hold his laugh while shouting them.

bottom line; if the woman had some backbone this would have never happened.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, action said:

Big fucking deal!

stop sugarcoating people with disabilities and make fun of it and lighten the fuck up.

I think you should be able to make jokes about everything, no matter how offensive. Heck, I've chuckled at holocaust jokes myself. But then you can also expect a reaction when someone loses their temper when a certain joke hits really hard. Doesn't mean it's okay, but humans aren't robots with no emotion. So he slapped him. Bad judgement, yeah, big fucking deal as well. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by EvanG

[action]

34 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think you should be able to make jokes about everything, no matter how offensive. Heck, I've chuckled at holocaust jokes myself. But then you can also expect a reaction when someone loses their temper when a certain joke hits really hard. Doesn't mean it's okay, but humans aren't robots with no emotion. So he slapped him. Bad judgement, yeah, big fucking deal as well. 

 

a reaction should happen in the form of a counter-joke

while we live in times where physical violence is to  be expected, physical violence is not a reaction that we should allow. it would take a lot of mental gymnastics to defend such behavior. 

I see no argument in which rock carries even the slightest blame. Had smith not punched him we probably wouldn't even be discussion the morality of the joke. As if jokes need to be morally checked in the first place. Again, like I said, jokes come at the expense of people in most cases. there absolutely is no harm in these.

Will smith is a narcisstic hypocrite, but his wife ain't much better either, as she knows her husband well enough (wives tend to), and she could have half expected her husband's reaction, so a large part of the blame lies on her. This couple should have never been allowed near the oscars. They can't cope with jokes. Away with them.

Edited March 30, 2022 by action

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, action said:

while we live in times where physical violence is to  be expected, physical violence is not a reaction that we should allow. it would take a lot of mental gymnastics to defend such behavior. 

The argument isn't whether it's okay to use violence, because most sane people would agree that it's not. 
My argument is that I don't think it's fair to completely shoot the guy down (as I've seen many do) because of a mistake, especially concerning this situation.

[downzy]

6 hours ago, EvanG said:

considering there is a history between Rock and Jada

What history?

Outside of one joke from 2016 where Rock made fun of Jada “boycotting” the Oscars, what history are you talking about?

6 hours ago, EvanG said:

now he even included her medical condition in a joke

For the umpteenth time, how do you know he knew about Jada’s condition being a medical condition and not a style choice?  Doesn’t Rock deserve the benefit of the doubt considering there’s no evidence at this point that he knew?  Because it would be a shitty thing of Rock to do if he did know, no question there.  But you can’t condemn someone for something if you’re not sure with certainty that this was his motivation. And again, just because Jada had made it known to anyone paying attention of her condition in 2018 doesn’t mean everyone, including Rock, was paying attention. 

[downzy]

20 minutes ago, EvanG said:

The argument isn't whether it's okay to use violence, because most sane people would agree that it's not. 
My argument is that I don't think it's fair to completely shoot the guy down (as I've seen many do) because of a mistake, especially concerning this situation.

I don’t think that’s what most people are arguing. I think most wanted to see contrition from Smith like he showed from his statement a day after the incident.  Most are questioning why, in the moment, Smith was allowed to stay when anyone else would have been escorted out of the building. His punishment, besides the hit to his reputation, should have been his absence as they presented his award for best actor (that he still should have received, but he should have been denied his moment in the sun to pontificate about being a vessel of love). 

[PatrickS77]

44 minutes ago, downzy said:

What history?

Outside of one joke from 2016 where Rock made fun of Jada “boycotting” the Oscars, what history are you talking about?

For the umpteenth time, how do you know he knew about Jada’s condition being a medical condition and not a style choice?  Doesn’t Rock deserve the benefit of the doubt considering there’s no evidence at this point that he knew?  Because it would be a shitty thing of Rock to do if he did know, no question there.  But you can’t condemn someone for something if you’re not sure with certainty that this was his motivation. And again, just because Jada had made it known to anyone paying attention of her condition in 2018 doesn’t mean everyone, including Rock, was paying attention. 

Yeah. That supposed "history" is ridiculous. She basically publicly complained that her husband didn't get nominated and blamed it on him being black. That is joke material.

Yeah. That. And even if he knew, a week ago or so she pointed out: “I liked my hair out wild and curly, but nobody wanted that. I had to learn to get the courage to go, I'm not doing it, which is why I feel the freedom today. I don't give two craps what people feel about this bald head of mine. Cause guess what? I love it" on TikTok." and then a guy says "Jada. I love you. G.I. Jane 2. Can't wait to see it. Alright. *then apparently he noticed that that joke didn't go that well* It's... *didn't understand what he said then*. That was a nice one. Okay?" and all hell breaks loose and he's the pariah to some? But, like I said before, both don't exactly come off with a clean vest. And to cancel any for that would be as overboard as Will's reaction. They both fucked up. Rock for making a borderline joke that could be seen as insensitive and an insult (it also could be seen as a compliment, as he said, that he wants to see her and thus, in a way, applauded her) that blew up in his face and Will for getting egged on by and overcompensating towards his wife.

Edited March 30, 2022 by PatrickS77

[cineater]

7 hours ago, downzy said:

Sorry, but how is a comedian suppose to know whether a joke will be received in good sport or not.  There’s almost always someone or something that’s the target of a joke.  I’m not a believer in the idea that any joke is permissible because it was intended as a joke.  Mistakes can happen and Jada would have been easily within her right to walk out or take Rock to task either personally or publicly.  But whether the joke was over the line or not is irrelevant with respect to Will’s response to it. 

I will say that it was a rather dumb thing for Rock to joke about.  Never a great idea to go after the looks of a non-comedian.  And to use dated references is just lazy.  It was a bit of a hack joke that was never going to work.  But until anyone can prove otherwise, it’s a bad take to suggest that Rock knew of Jada’s alopecia and decided to use it as material.  He more than likely didn’t know. 

I'm sure he didn't because you can see the shock on his face too.  It was a bad moment for everybody.  Will Smith losing his shit like that tells you how stressed out he is about his wife.  And now, not only is she dealing with all the emotions for herself, it's pretty obvious she needs to carry the weight of her husband's stress.  Everybody needs some understanding here.  It was bad all the way around.

[EvanG]

6 minutes ago, downzy said:

What history?

Outside of one joke from 2016 where Rock made fun of Jada “boycotting” the Oscars, what history are you talking about?

I read that there was beef between them before, but since I don't follow celebrity BS normally, I don't know if they were referring to what you're referring to or something else. Either way, doesn't change my argument.

9 minutes ago, downzy said:

For the umpteenth time, how do you know he knew about Jada’s condition being a medical condition and not a style choice?  Doesn’t Rock deserve the benefit of the doubt considering there’s no evidence at this point that he knew?  Because it would be a shitty thing of Rock to do if he did know, no question there.  But you can’t condemn someone for something if you’re not sure with certainty that this was his motivation. And again, just because Jada had made it known to anyone paying attention of her condition in 2018 doesn’t mean everyone, including Rock, was paying attention. 

I don't blame Rock for anything, as I've said more than once, I think everything should be joked about. 
I don't know if he knew about her condition but Smith most likely thought he knew and that's relevant to my understanding of him blowing up. It's not relevant if Rock knew, because in my opinion he should have been able to make that joke either way. My only argument is that I understand someone losing it and not controlling their emotions under those circumstances. I'm not condoning the violence. Some people don't seem to have any understanding at all. 

[downzy]

Just now, cineater said:

Will Smith losing his shit like that tells you how stressed out he is about his wife. And now, not only is she dealing with all the emotions for herself, it's pretty obvious she needs to carry the weight of her husband's stress.  Everybody needs some understanding here.

And that's the thing.  His response could have been the product of a lot of things going on inside him or his personal life.  More than likely he just projected whatever anger or frustrations he was having onto Chris Rock.  Regina Hall earlier in the evening made a quip about their open marriage.  Smith gets a lot of shit for other guys taking a run at his wife (which she apparently has no problem broadcasting).  Smith seemed to be enjoying himself up to the moment he sat back down after smacking Rock.  There's a lot going on there that apparently chose to come out in one of the worst ways possible. 

But like I said, as bad as whatever that was, my issue is more with how the producers of the show and the rest of the audience handled it.  I would have walked out the moment Smith came up to receive his Oscar.  It is insane to me that so many people could listen to his nonsensical speech and then give him a standing ovation considering what transpired a few minutes prior.  

[Rovim]

15 minutes ago, cineater said:

I'm sure he didn't because you can see the shock on his face too.  It was a bad moment for everybody.  Will Smith losing his shit like that tells you how stressed out he is about his wife.  And now, not only is she dealing with all the emotions for herself, it's pretty obvious she needs to carry the weight of her husband's stress.  Everybody needs some understanding here.  It was bad all the way around.

a lot of people deal with a lot of shit, stress, and tragic events. Will Smith is 53 years old. There is no excuse for what he did. He probably knew he could get away with slapping a comedian for making a bad joke on tv after finding the joke funny by the looks of it. In the past when he was young, he made a very similar bald joke on tv and when the audience gasped a little he shrugged it off by saying "oh it's just a joke!"

the behavior of the audience in the oscars highlights the fucked up shit as well. Saying we need some understanding here and that it was bad all around is just excusing this abhorrent behavior instead of recognizing the issue and dealing with it so shit like this won't be as acceptable in the future. Will Smith and Jada are not the victims here. It's not like he apologized during the ceramony and didn't dance with his award to the soothing sounds of getting jiggy with it in a nightclub later that evening. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Rovim

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I read that there was beef between them before, but since I don't follow celebrity BS normally, I don't know if they were referring to what you're referring to or something else. Either way, doesn't change my argument.

Sure it does.  You can't say there's history between them and then admit that you don't know the history.  You problem read it from someone else who read it from someone else who assumed there was history because Rock made one joke about Jada's supposed boycott way back in 2016.

5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't know if he knew about her condition but Smith most likely thought he knew and that's relevant to my understanding of him blowing up

Don't you see the problem with that?  That Smith would assume that everyone should be familiar with his wife's medical condition?  How ego-centric and self-involved do you have to be to believe that everyone knows everything about you (or that they should know everything about you).

Again, I don't think it was fertile grounds for comic material.  I'm not a huge Chris Rock fan.  I think he's largely overrated as a comic; had his moment in the late 90s/early 2000s and has rode that moment for the last twenty years.  I saw him at his peak in 2003 and thought the comic who opened for him was much funnier.  It's probably best for male comics to stay away from poking fun of female appearances.  But the idea that Smith thought Rock should know about his wife's medical condition is telling in and of itself.

8 minutes ago, EvanG said:

My only argument is that I understand someone losing it and not controlling their emotions under those circumstances

I understand getting upset and losing it to the point of making that known verbally.  But that's a long way away from taking it upon yourself to walk up in front of a crowd of thousands and to a television audience of millions on what is supposedly your big night and physically assaulting someone.  Understanding for someone having lost it doesn't mean we should understand the motivations to use physical violence as a possible and/or likely outcome. 

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

It's not like he apoligized during the ceramony and didn't dance with his award to the soothing sounds of getting jiggy with it in a nightclub later that evening. 

Further evidence that the man has serious detachment from reality issues.  That everything is about him; he shouldn't be denied his "moment" despite what he just did.  

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, downzy said:

Sure it does.  You can't say there's history between them and then admit that you don't know the history.  You problem read it from someone else who read it from someone else who assumed there was history because Rock made one joke about Jada's supposed boycott way back in 2016.

No, it doesn't, because I can understand someone losing their shit even more so when there's already been beef between them. (which is what I read)

3 minutes ago, downzy said:

Don't you see the problem with that?  That Smith would assume that everyone should be familiar with his wife's medical condition?  How ego-centric and self-involved do you have to be to believe that everyone knows everything about you (or that they should know everything about you).

Sure, but I am not arguing that, or am I? All I am saying is that I can have some understanding that under those circumstances someone can lose their shit.

5 minutes ago, downzy said:

I understand getting upset and losing it to the point of making that known verbally.  But that's a long way away from taking it upon yourself to walk up in front of a crowd of thousands and to a television audience of millions on what is supposedly your big night and physically assaulting someone.  Understanding for someone having lost it doesn't mean we should understand the motivations to use physical violence as a possible and/or likely outcome. 

I guess we have a different approach to understanding. I am not a violent person at all. Haven't thrown a punch, or slap, since elementary school. But I can definitely muster some understanding in this situation.

[downzy]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

No, it doesn't, because I can understand someone losing their shit even more so when there's already been beef between them. (which is what I read)

Sure, but I am not arguing that, or am I? All I am saying is that I can have some understanding that under those circumstances someone can lose their shit.

I guess we have a different approach to understanding. I am not a violent person at all. Haven't thrown a punch, or slap, since elementary school. But I can definitely muster some understanding in this situation.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying.  My only issue is how far do you want that understanding to go?  I think we can all understand how frustrating and disappointing to watch your wife get picked up on for a medical condition.  We would all understand Will if he had heckled or if Jada walked out.  But that understanding has limits.  It does not extend to include physical acts of violence.  

[EvanG]

3 minutes ago, downzy said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying.  My only issue is how far do you want that understanding to go?  I think we can all understand how frustrating and disappointing to watch your wife get picked up on for a medical condition.  We would all understand Will if he had heckled or if Jada walked out.  But that understanding has limits.  It does not extend to include physical acts of violence.  

Like I said, in this situation I do understand it, even if I don't condone it. If it would have been serious violence I am sure I wouldn't understand it, but it's not like he beat the guy up or even worse. He didn't even punch him technically speaking. But I guess this is something people won't agree on, because everyone has different morals. Some think parents should be able to spank their kids, while others would never tolerate that.

[downzy]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

Like I said, in this situation I do understand it, even if I don't condone it. If it would have been serious violence I am sure I wouldn't understand it, but it's not like he beat the guy up or even worse. He didn't even punch him technically speaking. But I guess this is something people won't agree on, because everyone has different morals. Some think parents should be able to spank their kids, while others would never tolerate that.

But there's a difference between feeling something and acting upon that feeling.

We all have baser instincts and impulses.  When someone cuts me off there's a part of me that wants to pull the guy from his seat and punch him out.  But I don't.  Similarly, as happily married as a I am, there's no denying that myself and every other man have primal impulses when we come across another attractive female.  But that doesn't mean we will or should act upon those impulses

The use of force, save for self-defence, represents a failure of control.  Understanding should be given to those who tap into baser, primal instincts (we're all animals).  But it should not be extended to those who actually act upon those impulses.  Nobody would begrudge Smith for feeling like he wanted to slap Rock.  But we should not extend sympathy or understanding for actually doing it.

[downzy]

 

[EvanG]

7 minutes ago, downzy said:

 But we should not extend sympathy or understanding for actually doing it.

That’s where we differ. Because I agree with everything else you said. That’s why I don’t condone it. I’d like to think that if I had been in a similar situation, I would have had more self-control. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t understand how someone else who is wired differently can blow a fuse in a certain moment and slap someone, especially when it involves a loved one’s situation. I hope he really does learn from it and next time he can control himself.

[downzy]

Just now, EvanG said:

But that doesn’t mean that I can’t understand how someone else who is wired differently can blow a fuse in a certain moment and slap someone, especially when it involves a loved one’s situation

Who says Smith is wired differently?  And why should that matter?

 

[EvanG]

12 minutes ago, downzy said:

Who says Smith is wired differently?  And why should that matter?

Well, he is wired different than I am, because I would never write a song about how parents just don’t understand…

[marlingrl03]

A good read. and on point.

https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r

[action]

3 hours ago, EvanG said:

 

Sure, but I am not arguing that, or am I? All I am saying is that I can have some understanding that under those circumstances someone can lose their shit.

 

there are people who have lost their shit for less, and far less.

just as their are people, who do not lose their shit at all.

will smith lost his shit, for the reasons we have discussed. He sits somewhere left of the middle of the spectrum, a bit on the extreme / touchy side.

hitting someone while the whole world is watching, is something else.

either, he's an extreme narcissist, or he has serious anger management problems, given the circumstances.