izzy and steven

[janrichmond]

53 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Okay, well let me ask *you* then. Putting aside Steven Adler’s feelings, do *you* think it was disrespectful to only let him play a song or two?

I'll take a guess that it's irrelevant 

[Frankfurt93]

Truth is, would they  be able to settle the things, NOONE would say no. Izzy/Matt/Adler/Gilby, they would all show up.

Remember UYI days? Gilby/Matt were present under GNR moniker, on tour t shirts, band posters, did you see any member present on lito's, posters other than 3? Says enough about their importance and their saying in the band.

[Billy Cundy]

2 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Yeah I hear ya. I guess I just don’t get it. I listen to every show on YouTube like the rest of us, and I read all the comments trashing Frank’s playing, and all I think is “what am I missing here? This sounds fine. It’s got groove. It swings. What’s with the hate?”

I guess I’m just not hearing it. And sure, there’s always going to be a difference in styles. But I guess what I’m saying is that they’re *different* drummers, but equally good, to me.

I mean Slash has a different style than say someone like, oh I don’t know, Nuno Bettencourt. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t play the same gig as…

…oh nevermind.

People are rightfully serious annd discerning about music. You can’t underestimate the importance of things a layman might consider ‘minutiae’. Adlers feel was remarkably important to GNR. The devil is often in the detail.  Great art wasn’t built on ‘close enough’. Just my two cents. I know what you mean, but in music, it’s better to be a select few’s ‘shot of whiskey’ than a great majorities ‘cup of tea’.. 

i appreciate what you’re saying from a business standpoint - they’re making money with the musicians they’re currently using. But to deny the impact of the original musician’s alchemy is… not really in the spirit of what made GNR so exciting. 
 

Frank doesn’t have the same feel as Adler or Sorum, and some songs suffer for it. It’s not just neurotic fanaticism … it’s a widely unanimous observation from musicians and people who care about musicianship. Which I think we all should. It’s a beautiful and powerful art form. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

58 minutes ago, Billy Cundy said:

People are rightfully serious annd discerning about music. You can’t underestimate the importance of things a layman might consider ‘minutiae’. Adlers feel was remarkably important to GNR. The devil is often in the detail.  Great art wasn’t built on ‘close enough’. Just my two cents. I know what you mean, but in music, it’s better to be a select few’s ‘shot of whiskey’ than a great majorities ‘cup of tea’.. 

i appreciate what you’re saying from a business standpoint - they’re making money with the musicians they’re currently using. But to deny the impact of the original musician’s alchemy is… not really in the spirit of what made GNR so exciting. 
 

Frank doesn’t have the same feel as Adler or Sorum, and some songs suffer for it. It’s not just neurotic fanaticism … it’s a widely unanimous observation from musicians and people who care about musicianship. Which I think we all should. It’s a beautiful and powerful art form. 

I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not downplaying the nuance in music: I’m a guitarist, semi-accomplished and “almost famous (not really).” The slightest inflection makes a big difference. I guess that - while I agree with quite literally everything you said about music, to the point where I’m stealing your whiskey/tea metaphor for future use, I also very much believe in the expression “good enough for rock n’ roll.”

I also don’t want to deny the original 5’s chemistry - I was more responding to the band’s communication *today* and why they don’t want Izzy/Steven around. If the band were to write new music, for instance, I’d miss Izzy’s input very much in particular. Appetite is a timeless classic, and Steven’s drumming was perfect for it - but I also enjoyed Use Your Illusion with Matt Sorum, so I guess my taste in drummers is less discerning. But my point is I was discussing Steven’s importance to the *current* band, as a touring entity that occasionally releases reworked 20 year old songs.

[Billy Cundy]

23 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not downplaying the nuance in music: I’m a guitarist, semi-accomplished and “almost famous (not really).” The slightest inflection makes a big difference. I guess that - while I agree with quite literally everything you said about music, to the point where I’m stealing your whiskey/tea metaphor for future use, I also very much believe in the expression “good enough for rock n’ roll.”

I also don’t want to deny the original 5’s chemistry - I was more responding to the band’s communication *today* and why they don’t want Izzy/Steven around. If the band were to write new music, for instance, I’d miss Izzy’s input very much in particular. Appetite is a timeless classic, and Steven’s drumming was perfect for it - but I also enjoyed Use Your Illusion with Matt Sorum, so I guess my taste in drummers is less discerning. But my point is I was discussing Steven’s importance to the *current* band, as a touring entity that occasionally releases reworked 20 year old songs.

It would be interesting to see if an original member coming back would have a positive effect on ticket sales. You’re probably right that its appeal is limited to keen fans of the band, but there are plenty of keen GNR fans out there… we’ll probably never know! 

[DoMw94]

5 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

And even then, the honeymoon on these forums would be short lived.

Oh without a doubt (hence the "five minute" dig 😜)

Let's be honest, there'll never be a day where this fanbase is entirely happy 😂 At the end of the day, it's only a rock band, we should just enjoy it for what it is or move on. it's hardly a big deal no matter who's playing what 🤷

[RONIN]

They are never coming back unfortunately. It is what it is. If early rumors are to be believed, it looks like Duff "Punk Rock" McKagan was a large impediment to them returning. Mr. Punk Rock is the businessman of the band (very punk) and he thought it was best for the three partners to hoard all the cash for themselves rather than pay Izzy and Steven what they were worth and give them a respectable position in the band. Slash, who claimed in his book that he left GnR in large part because Izzy and Steven were no longer in the band, did an about face as soon as he rejoined GnR. Remember their company line? "We'll only do the reunion if it's the 5 of us and everyone is an equal again." So basically Duff and Slash have been bullshitting fans for 20 years. My personal opinion is that Duff had the most credibility when he originally left GnR but post-VR he has wanted to cash-in badly. Slash on the other hand has always been angling for a way back into GnR. His leaving the band is very likely about control. As far as I'm concerned, Axl was largely correct about his assessment of Slash's character. It seems that's also backed up by Matt Sorum. That being said, I think Slash may have been open to being more amenable to Izzy and Steven, but that was something that Axl and Duff weren't ever going to be onboard for. Axl needs his money and hangers-on/leeches, Duff/Slash need money - the agendas align. Too bad. GnR fans take another L as usual.

[Gunner Gilby]

11 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

Truth is, would they  be able to settle the things, NOONE would say no. Izzy/Matt/Adler/Gilby, they would all show up.

Remember UYI days? Gilby/Matt were present under GNR moniker, on tour t shirts, band posters, did you see any member present on lito's, posters other than 3? Says enough about their importance and their saying in the band.

I remember reading that both Matt and Gilby were asked to guest. Matt was keen until he leaned they'd fly him to and from the gig but wouldn't pay him an appearance fee. Gilby got asked and wanted to but his daughter was playing an important gig and he chose to support her. He said he hoped they'd ask again. It'd suck if they don't. Gilby's the nicest guy. He's up for it. So why not?

[Gunner Gilby]

13 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

 

Okay, well let me ask *you* then. Putting aside Steven Adler’s feelings, do *you* think it was disrespectful to only let him play a song or two?

We all love Steven and are glad he's healthy, happy and still playing. But wouldn't it be disrespectful to Frank to be expected to give up his drum stool for more than a couple of songs? Love or hate the guy he's been a dependable and solid player for 17 years. He's earned his spot.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

7 hours ago, RONIN said:

Mr. Punk Rock is the businessman of the band (very punk) 

what exactly do you think being punk means? always being poor? you're ridiculous

[Karice]

Izzy and Steven should have formed their own band, and call it something like, "Stizzy or Stradler."  😀 Have Izzy singing the vocals and Steven playing the drums. 😀 It could have been REALLY great. 
 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Karice

[Stay.Of.Execution]

3 minutes ago, Karice said:

Izzy and Steven should have formed their own band, and call it something like, "Stizzy."  😀 Have Izzy singing the vocals and Steven playing the drums. 😀 It could have been REALLY great. 😀

Ok

[RONIN]

28 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

what exactly do you think being punk means? always being poor? you're ridiculous

Well, I'm not an expert on punk but whatever it is defined as, I'm pretty sure Duff is the opposite of it. I imagine being punk denotes some level of authenticity. I don't think GnR in their current configuration are very authentic. Not releasing music, overpriced rip off tickets playing the same 30 year old songs and barely changing the setlists 7 years into a reunion - and let's not forget cutting out former members over trivial sums of money - majorly uncool. When you're pulling down 7 figures a night and you're offering one of the principal songwriters and a co-founder of the band a low five figure sum to guest (if early rumors at the time of the reunion are to be believed), it's hard to get behind the band as a fan. And then you have the Steven situation, there's a guy who would play for free and they make him fly all the way to Argentina for one song. It's hard to defend them man.

Edited July 31, 2023 by RONIN

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Just now, RONIN said:

Well, I'm not an expert on Punk but whatever it is defined as, I'm pretty sure Duff is the opposite of it. I imagine being Punk denotes some level of authenticity. I don't think GnR in their current configuration are very authentic. Not releasing music, overpriced rip off tickets playing the same 30 year old songs and barely changing the setlists 7 years into a reunion 

New music is not Duff's call. He releases music pretty much constantly on his own. And yes, it seems like you don't know what punk actually means, yet you try to discredit Duff because he was smart enough to learn about the business.

[RONIN]

8 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

New music is not Duff's call. He releases music pretty much constantly on his own. And yes, it seems like you don't know what punk actually means, yet you try to discredit Duff because he was smart enough to learn about the business.

Okay, fair enough. I'm not faulting Duff for studying business. My issue is that the guy comes off as inauthentic. If he's played a role in Izzy not being there and it was over money - well, that doesn't seem like it aligns with the values he used to espouse in his old interviews and his books. Just my opinion.

Edited July 31, 2023 by RONIN

[Karice]

I'd love to see at least one show where EVERYBODY who has ever been in Guns N'Roses performs for at least one night together(Except Ole who died in 1991, as a poster informed me after I posted this post. 😫)

 

 

 

 😀 Dj Ashba, Josh, Paul, Chris,Bryan, Robin,  Tommy,  Gilby, Bumblefoot, Buckethead,  Axl, Izzy, Steven, Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy, Frank, Richard, Melissa, Rob, Teddy, and Tracii. 😀 All 24 of them.being on stage together for at least one night/performance could be REALLY spectacular! 😀

Edited July 31, 2023 by Karice

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, Karice said:

I'd love to see at least one show where EVERYBODY who has ever been in Guns N'Roses performs for at least one night together. 😀 The lesser  members such as Brain, Dj Ashba, Josh, Paul, Chris,Bryan, Robin,  Tommy, the middle of the road such as Gilby, Bumblefoot, Buckethead, the Royalty such as Axl, Izzy, Steven, Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy, the newer Members, such as Frank, Richard, Melissa, Rob, Teddy, Ron, maybe Ole and Tracii. 😀 All 25 being on stage together for at least one night/performance could be REALLY spectacular! 😀

Ole Beich died in '91, just saying.

[Gunner Gilby]

18 minutes ago, Karice said:

I'd love to see at least one show where EVERYBODY who has ever been in Guns N'Roses performs for at least one night together. 😀 The lesser  members such as Brain, Dj Ashba, Josh, Paul, Chris,Bryan, Robin,  Tommy, the middle of the road such as Gilby, Bumblefoot, Buckethead, the Royalty such as Axl, Izzy, Steven, Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy, the newer Members, such as Frank, Richard, Melissa, Rob, Teddy, Ron, maybe Ole and Tracii. 😀 All 25 being on stage together for at least one night/performance could be REALLY spectacular! 😀

Ole might be a bit tricky as he passed away in 91. And Ole, Rob and Tracii never recorded anything so this would be pointless and literally no one wants this. Axl's never sharing a stage with Chris again. Slash is never going to work with Paul. Even DJ's smart enough to gracefully accept that with Slash there he's not really needed.

We've had Steven guest. All we really want to see is Izzy, Matt and Gilby.

[Karice]

12 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Ole Beich died in '91, just saying.

I just edited my post as I  didn't know Ole died in 1991 until you told me. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Karice

[MaskingApathy]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:52 AM, Karice said:

Never say never. 😏 A long time ago, Axl was asked something like,"Will Slash ever be back in Guns N'Roses?" Axl responded,"Not in this lifetime." And, Slash has been back in Guns N'Roses for 7 years and counting....😏So there is still hope that Izzy and Steven could be back in Guns N'Roses eventually....😏

No they gave up their chance back in 2016. They're not going to ask them now. And in any case Steven and Izzy are still making money when GnR tours from performance royalties so they're still benefiting.

[Karice]

33 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

No they gave up their chance back in 2016. They're not going to ask them now. And in any case Steven and Izzy are still making money when GnR tours from performance royalties so they're still benefiting.

You never know. Steven and Izzy could always change their minds and want in in Guns N'Roses again. 😀

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, Karice said:

You never know. Steven and Izzy could always change their minds and want in in Guns N'Roses again. 😀

But they won't be let in now, and Izzy especially isn't going to try to come back.

[Tadsy]

I think it’s possible there’s valid arguments on both sides of the fence here. 

Most parties involved in GNR over the years could generally be classed as shitbags. 

the band members, the management, the hangers ons… theres a million examples of shitty behaviour from all of them towards each other, so defending any of them makes literally no sense to me. 

 

 

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

This cash grab nostalgia show should be over now. 

What would tempt me would be a raw AFD5 tour, no keys, no background shit, AFD5 original set up only.