Perhaps - New Guns N' Roses Single - Discussion

[luciusfunk]

1 minute ago, felixGNR said:

were both  released  as a single?

i never heard radio stations play those song separately

Honestly I was always under the impression that We Are the Champions and We Will Rock You were a double A-side, but wiki says different.

[Amir]

1 hour ago, luciusfunk said:

Honestly I was always under the impression that We Are the Champions and We Will Rock You were a double A-side, but wiki says different.

According to wiki one was the A-side in some countries, and one was the A-side in other countries, very confusing.

[Cosmo]

Many of the people saying "It is what it is. Perhaps is just an outtake from Chinese Democracy" are the same ones who say the demo versions are superior to their final versions. So... even if CD was the collection of the best material Axl and co had at the time, you trust their choice of songs but you don't trust their artistic choices for these songs' final versions? Axl has perfect judgement of what is the best material he has at the time but doesn't have the best judgement of what is the best version of the songs he chose? Okay, then 

[Blackstar]

Regarding the writing credits, it has appeared on GMR (which collects royalties for Slash and Duff), but no information about other writers yet. Nothing on ASCAP and other databases yet, either.

https://globalmusicrights.com/Search

 

[metalavenger99]

[Tom-Ass]

19 hours ago, Rjuncajun said:

It's almost as if most of these people don't quite understand how bands put albums together.   Or that songs and ideas for songs are worked on for years, several years sometimes.   I just don't get the complaint people have of when certain songs were written, thought of it worked on before their release.   

It is about who wrote the songs and when... Tracks that were recorded in a time spanning decades.. By people that aren't in the band and more. Using Slash and Duff as Session musicians to lay down tracks over previously writtem demos.. Axl's vocals from 99.. 

No one else puts albums together like this lol.. Not even close..  It has also taken them 7 years to do what they could have done in 2 weeks and then went on to bigger and better songs written by this lineup.. Or at minimum, recorded by this lineup.. The songs aren't even that good.. Most agree Absurd sucks.. Its a mixed bag on Hardschool..  Perhaps is better but not great.. I do really like the verses.. I have no idea what Axl is saying during that other part.. It is too Muddy.. Slash's guitars are too low.. This could have been a song that they recorded over from scratch and ended up pretty damn good. 

 

[Dummy]

1 million spotify streams for perhaps

[DeNfr]

sorry if it was posted before

 

[DeNfr]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:33 AM, ajyoli said:

Another great review ,  by Justin Hawkins

 

aaaand yes it was 

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

It is about who wrote the songs and when... Tracks that were recorded in a time spanning decades.. By people that aren't in the band and more. Using Slash and Duff as Session musicians to lay down tracks over previously writtem demos.. Axl's vocals from 99.. 

No one else puts albums together like this lol.. Not even close..  It has also taken them 7 years to do what they could have done in 2 weeks and then went on to bigger and better songs written by this lineup.. Or at minimum, recorded by this lineup.. The songs aren't even that good.. Most agree Absurd sucks.. Its a mixed bag on Hardschool..  Perhaps is better but not great.. I do really like the verses.. I have no idea what Axl is saying during that other part.. It is too Muddy.. Slash's guitars are too low.. This could have been a song that they recorded over from scratch and ended up pretty damn good. 

 

I actually didn't like Perhaps much when I first heard it in 2019 (The 2000 Village version), but it grew on me quick. I instantly liked the 2000 Hardschool, thought it was amazing. I still think the 2000 mix is far better than the 2021 mix, but when comparing 2021 Hard Skool to 2023 Perhaps, I feel 2023 Perhaps is better because I think GN'R elevated the 2000 version (except I prefer Robin's full solo) and downgraded Hardschool into Hard Skool, thus the preference discrepancy. 

[Seb91]

2 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

It is about who wrote the songs and when... Tracks that were recorded in a time spanning decades.. By people that aren't in the band and more. Using Slash and Duff as Session musicians to lay down tracks over previously writtem demos.. Axl's vocals from 99.. 

No one else puts albums together like this lol.. Not even close..  It has also taken them 7 years to do what they could have done in 2 weeks and then went on to bigger and better songs written by this lineup.. Or at minimum, recorded by this lineup.. The songs aren't even that good.. Most agree Absurd sucks.. Its a mixed bag on Hardschool..  Perhaps is better but not great.. I do really like the verses.. I have no idea what Axl is saying during that other part.. It is too Muddy.. Slash's guitars are too low.. This could have been a song that they recorded over from scratch and ended up pretty damn good. 

 

Yeah, I mean I like the new singles but agree this is different from other bands. I mean, the closest example I can think of is Stevie Nicks, she's not averse to going back through old demos and doesn't seem to keen on writing new material but even then the demos are demos. With GN'R these songs were good to go but weren't released for whatever reason. 

[Slugworth]

12 hours ago, jimisbatman said:

A, was there 2 versions of NOV RAIN? 

You never heard the demos? How's that even possible? They've been circulating for decades and as the guy above mentioned, were released on the box set.

 

11 hours ago, Cosmo said:

Many of the people saying "It is what it is. Perhaps is just an outtake from Chinese Democracy" are the same ones who say the demo versions are superior to their final versions. So... even if CD was the collection of the best material Axl and co had at the time, you trust their choice of songs but you don't trust their artistic choices for these songs' final versions? Axl has perfect judgement of what is the best material he has at the time but doesn't have the best judgement of what is the best version of the songs he chose? Okay, then 

If he was someone like Roger Waters working on Wish You Were Here and eventually some of the material gets rearranged and recorded later on for the next album (Animals), I might be a bit more trusting and confident in his approach.

 

All he does is continually paste new people into the exact same already overcooked 20 year old songs making a mess out of it.

 

The demos are superior. Mainly because the songs can breathe and they've yet reached the point where everyone and their grandma has to contribute.

 

The next song doesn't need Miss Piggy on a tuba buried in the mix.

 

He claimed it was ready in 2001-2. I believed him.

[mystery]

1 hour ago, Slugworth said:

You never heard the demos? How's that even possible? They've been circulating for decades and as the guy above mentioned, were released on the box set.

 

If he was someone like Roger Waters working on Wish You Were Here and eventually some of the material gets rearranged and recorded later on for the next album (Animals), I might be a bit more trusting and confident in his approach.

 

All he does is continually paste new people into the exact same already overcooked 20 year old songs making a mess out of it.

 

The demos are superior. Mainly because the songs can breathe and they've yet reached the point where everyone and their grandma has to contribute.

 

The next song doesn't need Miss Piggy on a tuba buried in the mix.

 

He claimed it was ready in 2001-2. I believed him.

Bob Ezrin basically said this when he worked with the band to get Chinese Democracy released over 20 years ago. He said that the songs had been painted over too many times. Its interesting to think that he most likely heard Perhaps in 2000.

Edited August 25, 2023 by mystery

[Slugworth]

15 minutes ago, mystery said:

Bob Ezrin basically said this when he worked with the band to get Chinese Democracy released over 20 years ago. He said that the songs had been painted over too many times. Its interesting to think that he most likely heard Perhaps in 2001.

 

"What I heard was something that he had painted over too many times."

"So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something."

 

Bob Ezrin: 'Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed. There are two great songs on it and I know that you’re capable of more, that’s the reason why I’m here. You’re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn’t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren’t great. But I‘m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it’s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better.' 

 

Axl: 'I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix.'

 

Bob Ezrin: 'You have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go.'  I left and I haven’t heard from him since." 

 

(Bob Ezrin, HitChannel, 04/12/12)

 

Other than only two great songs...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Slugworth

[mystery]

5 minutes ago, Slugworth said:

 

"What I heard was something that he had painted over too many times."

"So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something."

 

Bob Ezrin: 'Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed. There are two great songs on it and I know that you’re capable of more, that’s the reason why I’m here. You’re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn’t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren’t great. But I‘m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it’s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better.'  Axl: 'I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix.' Bob Ezrin: 'You have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go.'  I left and I haven’t heard from him since." 

 

(Bob Ezrin, HitChannel, 04/12/12)

 

Other than only two great songs...

 

 

 

 

He was being a bit harsh there but at the same time he was an A&R guy for the record label that was desperate to recoup the cost they put into the album. He was most likely looking for a SCOM or November Rain type hit with Slash's trademark style and couldn't find it.

With the state of rock music circa 2000-01 I feel like Chinese Democracy still could have fared well enough but Interscope/Geffen needed a big hit to make it worthwhile.

[RichardNixon]

4 hours ago, Slugworth said:

 

"What I heard was something that he had painted over too many times."

"So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something."

 

Bob Ezrin: 'Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed. There are two great songs on it and I know that you’re capable of more, that’s the reason why I’m here. You’re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn’t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren’t great. But I‘m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it’s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better.' 

 

Axl: 'I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix.'

 

Bob Ezrin: 'You have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go.'  I left and I haven’t heard from him since." 

 

(Bob Ezrin, HitChannel, 04/12/12)

 

Other than only two great songs...

 

 

 

 

Bob didn't "get" it, and that's fine. But it's just his opinion. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by RichardNixon

[Lethalis]

Bob is the reason we didn't get new music sooner. The *lots of bad words*

Chinese Democracy was great when he heard it. I like the demo's and they should have released it. The costs only went up further after that conversation lol.

Axl needed to get these songs out... maybe he would have written a lot of different stuff after CD if he was "done" with it sooner rather than later.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Lethalis

[Rovim]

shows when Axl had that conversation with fuckin' Bob Ezrin, he almost pulled the trigger on the release but maybe lost confidence. Even if there wasn't a hit and the album wasn't perfect and could have been improved, it is my opinion the best option was to release it in 1999/2000 and let the chips fall where they may.

it would probably have sold more, as well, but even more crucial than that, it would have been a step in the right direction, of moving forward and gaining at least some momentum and maybe a second album could have been released a few years after that. Sometimes it's not a good idea to listen to other people as a musician, just got to trust your gut, but my guess is the baggage of the old band and trying to prove to the world that Axl didn't need Slash to create and release a great Gn'R album that would be successful got to his head and he lost confidence and guys like Bob Ezrin, that yes, just gave their opinion killed Axl's wish to mix it and release it. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

38 minutes ago, Rovim said:

shows when Axl had that conversation with fuckin' Bob Ezrin, he almost pull the trigger on the release but maybe lost confidence. Even if there wasn't a hit and the album wasn't perfect and could have been improved, it is my opinion the best option was to release it in 1999/2000 and let the chips fall where they may.

it would probably have sold more, as well, but even more crucial than that, it would have been a step in the right direction, of moving forward and gaining at least some momentum and maybe a second album could have been released a few years after that. Sometimes it's not a good idea to listen to other people as a musician, just got to trust your gut, but my guess is the baggage of the old band and trying to prove to the world that Axl didn't need Slash to create and release a great Gn'R album that would be successful got to his head and he lost confidence and guys like Bob Ezrin, that yes, just gave their opinion killed Axl's wish to mix it and release it. 

Yeah. It would have changed the trajectory of the band. After the release the band would have toured, playing much more music from the album, which would have satisfied the band members. Maybe Bucket, Robin and Josh would have remained in the band, maybe Axl would feel motivated to get the follow-up out soon, too, with the lineup intact and fairly good reception of the album. 

[Cosmo]

7 hours ago, Slugworth said:

You never heard the demos? How's that even possible? They've been circulating for decades and as the guy above mentioned, were released on the box set.

 

If he was someone like Roger Waters working on Wish You Were Here and eventually some of the material gets rearranged and recorded later on for the next album (Animals), I might be a bit more trusting and confident in his approach.

 

All he does is continually paste new people into the exact same already overcooked 20 year old songs making a mess out of it.

 

The demos are superior. Mainly because the songs can breathe and they've yet reached the point where everyone and their grandma has to contribute.

 

The next song doesn't need Miss Piggy on a tuba buried in the mix.

 

He claimed it was ready in 2001-2. I believed him.

And do you think Perhaps is just a chinese leftover? I mean… u really missed my point by a long shot, didn’t u? 

[felixGNR]

how do we know if perhaps was or wasn't  part of the hours of music that slash/duff/matt worked on?(afd website)

before leaving/quitting/being fired? 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by felixGNR

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, felixGNR said:

how do we know if perhaps was or wasn't  part of the hours of music that slash/duff/matt worked on?(afd website)

before leaving/quitting/being fired? 

We don't.

But Slash said something which could be interpreted that Hard Skool was the oldest of the bunch and that the other forthcoming singles were newer. So if Hard Skool dates back to 1997 or earlier, when Slash, Duff and Matt were in the band, Perhaps should be newer. 

Btw, it is not proven that Hard Skool is as old as having started in 1996, but I was later informed - by a "source close to the band" - that the 1996 song that the band worked on, and which Duff and Matt talked about, was actually never intended for a Jackie Chan movie. That was a misunderstanding.

Edited August 25, 2023 by SoulMonster

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

We don't.

But Slash said something which could be interpreted that Hard Skool was the oldest of the bunch and that the other forthcoming singles were newer. So if Hard Skool dates back to 1997 or earlier, when Slash, Duff and Matt were in the band, Perhaps should be newer. 

Btw, it is not proven that Hard Skool is as old as having started in 1996, but I was later informed - by a "source close to the band" - that the 1996 song that the band worked on, and which Duff and Matt talked about, was actually never intended for a Jackie Chan movie. That was a misunderstanding.

Although never intended for a Jackie Chan movie, the working title was Jackie Chan (for another reason), wasn't it?

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Although never intended for a Jackie Chan movie, the working title was Jackie Chan (for another reason), wasn't it?

Yeah, Axl was watching a Jackie Chan movie at the time when they worked on the song, possibly leading to the song getting that as a working title and possibly already inspiring the foundation for lyrics. Duff would also separately mention that Axl was a "huge fan" of Jackie Chan back in 1996. 

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, Axl was watching a Jackie Chan movie at the time when they worked on the song, possibly leading to the song getting that as a working title and possibly already inspiring the foundation for lyrics. Duff would also separately mention that Axl was a "huge fan" of Jackie Chan back in 1996. 

So I guess we can conclude that HS was "Jackie Chan" (as Axl said in 2008 anyway) and it was the same song Duff and Matt were talking about, although not intended for a movie.