"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[evader]

2 minutes ago, DarkLotus1111 said:

Wasn't there two different intros for "The General" back in 2006? I could've remember back in 2006 there was a different version of that intro. Can anyone confirm?

There used to be a video on YouTube about the intro I'm talking about. I remember it was from Hungary.

There were a few different ones. I think I found 3 or 4, and concluded that there was overlapping of the clips. In total, I figured we had like 4 minutes of song orchestration given to us in various snippets.

[Slugworth]

5 minutes ago, evader said:

This is some great discussion and speculation.

Regarding whether or not the recreation was fantasy, I suppose in a sense it at least partially was. Maybe like apophenia/pareidolia (not sure if that's the right way to describe it). But, since we already knew way back then that there was an unreleased tune about child abuse, and since (among other instances) I thought I'd heard the word "child" sung in the screaming section at least once......well, who knows?

Anyway, like I said before, my work on that clip was not complete, and a number of things on that version were intentionally seasoned with Buckethead material that IS NOT part of the cell clip (including the replaced solo).

When it was used in a trade and subsequently leaked, I quit working on it, and pretty much quit working on anything related to GNR.

[WhazUp]

12 minutes ago, evader said:

This is some great discussion and speculation.

Regarding whether or not the recreation was fantasy, I suppose in a sense it at least partially was. Maybe like apophenia/pareidolia (not sure if that's the right way to describe it). But, since we already knew way back then that there was an unreleased tune about child abuse, and since (among other instances) I thought I'd heard the word "child" sung in the screaming section at least once......well, who knows?

Anyway, like I said before, my work on that clip was not complete, and a number of things on that version were intentionally seasoned with Buckethead material that IS NOT part of the cell clip (including the replaced solo).

When it was used in a trade and subsequently leaked, I quit working on it, and pretty much quit working on anything related to GNR.

Hey Evader!  Good to see you around these parts.  I myself do want to emphasize, I have always thought your work on your version of The General, especially using the vocal stems to make a cohesive melody line in one key, was super impressive and it sounds fantastic

And any points I made here in this thread were in no way a judgement call on the quality and effort of your work on that audio - my points have always been more just that, since the cell phone clip's quality is so bad, there is only so much we can gleam from it with actual 1:1 recreations of the actual song, so that means using what little can be heard, injected with one's own imagination are probably how I figured you made it

And I wanted to make the overall point that as cool as your version is, it is hard to make a judgement call on the quality of the actual song without hearing the full audio of the real thing

[colonizedmind]

Guns actual activity is bringing everyone back together....it's a beautiful thing.

[colonizedmind]

25 minutes ago, evader said:

This is some great discussion and speculation.

Regarding whether or not the recreation was fantasy, I suppose in a sense it at least partially was. Maybe like apophenia/pareidolia (not sure if that's the right way to describe it). But, since we already knew way back then that there was an unreleased tune about child abuse, and since (among other instances) I thought I'd heard the word "child" sung in the screaming section at least once......well, who knows?

Anyway, like I said before, my work on that clip was not complete, and a number of things on that version were intentionally seasoned with Buckethead material that IS NOT part of the cell clip (including the replaced solo).

When it was used in a trade and subsequently leaked, I quit working on it, and pretty much quit working on anything related to GNR.

It's all friggen "Warchilds" fault...

[ZoSoRose]

26 minutes ago, evader said:

This is some great discussion and speculation.

Regarding whether or not the recreation was fantasy, I suppose in a sense it at least partially was. Maybe like apophenia/pareidolia (not sure if that's the right way to describe it). But, since we already knew way back then that there was an unreleased tune about child abuse, and since (among other instances) I thought I'd heard the word "child" sung in the screaming section at least once......well, who knows?

Anyway, like I said before, my work on that clip was not complete, and a number of things on that version were intentionally seasoned with Buckethead material that IS NOT part of the cell clip (including the replaced solo).

When it was used in a trade and subsequently leaked, I quit working on it, and pretty much quit working on anything related to GNR.

It brought a lot of joy to people, your work on Silkworms too! I’m looking forward to comparing your version to the real one. Crazy this is happening

[evader]

8 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Hey Evader!  Good to see you around these parts.  I myself do want to emphasize, I have always thought your work on your version of The General, especially using the vocal stems to make a cohesive melody line in one key, was super impressive and it sounds fantastic

And any points I made here in this thread were in no way a judgement call on the quality and effort of your work on that audio - my points have always been more just that, since the cell phone clip's quality is so bad, there is only so much we can gleam from it with actual 1:1 recreations of the actual song, so that means using what little can be heard, injected with one's own imagination are probably how I figured you made it

And I wanted to make the overall point that as cool as your version is, it is hard to make a judgement call on the quality of the actual song without hearing the full audio of the real thing

Hello there, and no sweat about words of any type. All points of view about my frustrating (and now ancient) work are welcomed. I especially appreciate those that are specific with constructive critique. No lie though, the occasional pats on the back are also quite comforting.

My version required a ton of imagination and "artistic" license, so those that think it is wrong are 100% correct.

[CaioAKR]

6 hours ago, evader said:

This is some great discussion and speculation.

Regarding whether or not the recreation was fantasy, I suppose in a sense it at least partially was. Maybe like apophenia/pareidolia (not sure if that's the right way to describe it). But, since we already knew way back then that there was an unreleased tune about child abuse, and since (among other instances) I thought I'd heard the word "child" sung in the screaming section at least once......well, who knows?

Anyway, like I said before, my work on that clip was not complete, and a number of things on that version were intentionally seasoned with Buckethead material that IS NOT part of the cell clip (including the replaced solo).

When it was used in a trade and subsequently leaked, I quit working on it, and pretty much quit working on anything related to GNR.

The legend himself. Even if the lyrics are not 100% accurate (how could they be, anyway?), just listening repeatedly to the cellphone leak and then to your rendition, I'd say you did a phenomenal job, but you already know that. lol I figure you would be very curious to hear how the real deal stacks up, aren't you?

I myself cannot believe we're getting the most mythical GN'R song of all. If we get Soul Monster and Seven, then my mission is complete, but really, if we were to only get one more song, it HAD to be The General. Glad Axl thinks the same.

Edited August 21, 2023 by CaioAKR

[Old_school_gnr_fan]

7 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Slash being on it is the downside to me. I don't believe his solos will top Finck's or Buckethead's original solos, similar to every other CD song he's redone, live and in studio. 

If Slash hadn’t returned to Guns N’ Roses in 2016, Axl and his band would be playing at 2,000 seat venues, or maybe not playing anywhere at all. 

I’m pretty sure Axl had an epiphany sometime during the Las Vegas residency, and asked himself how it had gotten to that point. From the world’s biggest band in 1991 to a Las Vegas residency.

You only hurt yourself by hearing leaked demos performed by musicians for hire that were never meant to be heard unless it was an official release. Slash never was a shredder, and Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck. It’s strange enough that Fortus was once in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

[evader]

8 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

It brought a lot of joy to people, your work on Silkworms too! I’m looking forward to comparing your version to the real one. Crazy this is happening

Me too, ZoSo. Me too. Funny, f'ing Silkworms from Rio '01 is the track that got me interested in editing audio. I probably put more effort into that than any other mix over the years, starting way back in 2002-ish.

[davisp]

I've heard that fantastic Evader mix years ago but can't find it anymore. Can someone send me a link? or is it forbidden to ask?

Edited August 20, 2023 by davisp

[Cosmo]

7 minutes ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck.

Well, I'm sure as hell glad it ended up becoming one, then.

[klakly]

12 minutes ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

Se Slash non fosse tornato ai Guns N' Roses nel 2016, Axl e la sua band suonerebbero in locali da 2000 posti, o forse non suonerebbero affatto. 

Sono abbastanza sicuro che Axl abbia avuto un'illuminazione durante la residenza a Las Vegas, e si sia chiesto come fosse arrivato a quel punto. Dalla più grande band del mondo nel 1991 a una residenza a Las Vegas.

Ti fai solo del male ascoltando demo trapelate eseguite da musicisti a pagamento che non avrebbero mai dovuto essere ascoltate a meno che non fosse una pubblicazione ufficiale. Slash non è mai stato uno shredder, e i Guns N' Roses non sono mai stati pensati per essere una band composta da musicisti bizzarri e insoliti come Buckethead e Robin Finck. È abbastanza strano che Fortus sia stato una volta in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

THIS!

[Seb91]

2 hours ago, Its Tino said:

I don’t recall Atlas having any piano whatsoever.

You're right! I relistened and no piano. I guess because of the similarity to Catcher I'd misremembered and my brain put some piano in 

[Seb91]

1 hour ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

If Slash hadn’t returned to Guns N’ Roses in 2016, Axl and his band would be playing at 2,000 seat venues, or maybe not playing anywhere at all. 

I’m pretty sure Axl had an epiphany sometime during the Las Vegas residency, and asked himself how it had gotten to that point. From the world’s biggest band in 1991 to a Las Vegas residency.

You only hurt yourself by hearing leaked demos performed by musicians for hire that were never meant to be heard unless it was an official release. Slash never was a shredder, and Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck. It’s strange enough that Fortus was once in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

I think it only got to that point because of the revolving door of musicians and the lack of new material. The band were still able to headline festivals and sell out arenas in the 2000s with the new guys and there was a lot of buzz around the 2006 tour and the new Chinese songs. Classic Rock Magazine called it their album of the year in 2007 based on the leaks and were gushing about the 2006 shows. Six years of nothing new after Chinese and four years of similar shows after 2010 meant people lost interest, including Bumble.  

I think yet another lead guitarist leaving and Duff having reconnected with Axl and indeed done a tour with the band was a big part of it as he was a bridge between Axl and Slash. It was reunion or bust at that point. I don't think the Vegas residency was an inevitably from the get-go and had the band got into a regular album-touring cycle in the 2000s with a stable lineup then things would have been better. I mean, as is discussed here a lot GN'R with Slash is losing its novelty appeal over time because of the lack of new material and the buzz over Perhaps in the wider world shows you do need something to maintain interest. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by BassistSeb

[GNR4Ever2024]

3 hours ago, evader said:

Hello there,

You are a bold one

3 hours ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

If Slash hadn’t returned to Guns N’ Roses in 2016, Axl and his band would be playing at 2,000 seat venues, or maybe not playing anywhere at all. 

I’m pretty sure Axl had an epiphany sometime during the Las Vegas residency, and asked himself how it had gotten to that point. From the world’s biggest band in 1991 to a Las Vegas residency.

You only hurt yourself by hearing leaked demos performed by musicians for hire that were never meant to be heard unless it was an official release. Slash never was a shredder, and Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck. It’s strange enough that Fortus was once in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

username checks out because they literally sold out msg  multiple times 2002-2014.

 

 

[GNR4Ever2024]

I would KILL to get a Vegas Residency with a band thats good money

[Gordon Comstock]

3 hours ago, evader said:

Me too, ZoSo. Me too. Funny, f'ing Silkworms from Rio '01 is the track that got me interested in editing audio. I probably put more effort into that than any other mix over the years, starting way back in 2002-ish.

 

Your version of Silkworms was awesome! Always liked Madagascar (Danube) too.

Your version of The General is ridiculously impressive, but I think people who are basing their expectations off it might be setting themselves up for disappointment or frustration.

[evader]

5 hours ago, CaioAKR said:

 I figure you would be very curious to hear how the real deal stack up, aren't you?

Very much so, but with medium-to-low expectations for the placement accuracy of the blurry, deformed and mutilated puzzle pieces I forced together. I'm not nearly as interested in the lyrics as much as I am curious about the vocal melody.

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Your version of Silkworms was awesome! Always liked Madagascar (Danube) too.

Your version of The General is ridiculously impressive, but I think people who are basing their expectations off it might be setting themselves up for disappointment or frustration.

Thanks, and I totally forgot about Danube - wonder if I still... yep. Wow, not bad.

You're absolutely right about people setting themselves up for disappointment, and I hope they don't. Strangely, if it is completely different than I expect, it won't bug me at all.

Edited August 21, 2023 by evader

[jimisbatman]

On 8/20/2023 at 1:44 AM, SoulMonster said:

Okay, let's me try to summarize the arguments for State of Grace being the same song as The General.

Brain joined GN'R at the earliest in April or May 2000. We can be quite sure of this because he said that he was touring in Australia with Primus when the call from Buckethead came to come and audition for GN'R [Vic Firth Spotlight, May 2006]. This fits nicely with Josh having left the band in February/March 2000 [Allstarmag, March 14, 2000]. Primus toured Australia from April 6 to April 23 [setlist.fm]. Then he might have left the tour to travel and audition (similar to what Richard did), or he could have waited till it was over and they were back in California in late April. Regardless, this places his first audition with the band to some time in April. Then he said it took a while before they contacted him again and gave him the spot [Modern Drummer, May 2000], actually he said it took three months before he finally gave in and joined [I'd Hit That Podcast, March 3, 2015]. This means he actually first joined closer to mid-summer of 2000.

State of Grace existed as a more-or-less finished song by March 27, 2000. We know this because that's the (presumed) mixing date it has one Rough Mixes CD #3.

Then there are a few things that suggest that Brain wrote The General. I think he says as much in an interview with either Appetite for Distortion or GN'R Central (yet to be transcribed) where he talks about the track getting them name from Buckethead eating General Tsao's chicken at the time, or something like that. Furthermore, in another interview he was asked if he had written the song, and he didn't deny it, but would refer to it as a "jam" [GNR-Online BR, July 18, 2010]. I wouldn't refer to State of Grace as a "jam".

Is it possible that Brain worked on State of Grace? Yes, but I find it hard to think it was changed so much that Brain would take credit for having written it. And why would they rename it to The General when it already had lyrics? It doesn't make sense. Maybe Axl decided that the song would be used for spare parts, the lyrics were thrown away, the chassis or some other part was given to Bucket and Brain who made it into a new track which they named The General. Sounds very far-fetched to me.

Then we have known that parts of The General, likely the introduction, has been played at live shows an an intro to Chinese Democracy [Guns N' Roses twitter account, December 11, 2010]. State of Grace doesn't have any orchestration and it doesn't sound like it was missing any. Furthermore, we have the audio recording from the part where The General was allegedly played. I don't know, there seems to be different opinion on whether it can be the same song, personally I can barely hear anything and then I think I am already in the territory where I can't say anything for sure. 

So make up your own mind, but to me it seems highly unlikely they are the same songs.

Btw, that Brain joined lately fits nicely with the work documented on the Village leaks. Those tracks mixed in March 2000 (Atlas Shrugged, Perhaps, Prostitute, Catcher, Quicksong, State of Grace, Oklahoma, I.R.S., Me & My Elvis, D Tune, Curly Shuffle, etc) must contain Josh on drums. While songs like Sorry, Real doll.com, and Shankler's, which we believe are collabs between Brain and Bucket, were mixed in September and August 2000 (and there is also material there which is specifically stated is Brain from 2001).

 

 

 

Soooooooooo, 😂, it's highly likely SOG is not The General.... And that 'insider' is a hardcore gnr fan living in his mum's basement playing warcraft all day lol. 

[jimisbatman]

On 8/20/2023 at 2:11 AM, Free Bird said:

Agree on Oh My God. Wouldn't call that epic by any means 

But I disagree on The Garden. With slightly over 5 min runtime it's not the length that makes it epic for my taste, but the build up, the psychedelic sound, the atmosphere... Alice Cooper, the crazy part during the solo and the heavy riffing towards the end. Pure greatness. Simply epic for me 

Omg is epic as fuck, definitely top 6 CD era songs for sure 

[Free Bird]

Just now, jimisbatman said:

Omg is epic as fuck, definitely top 6 CD era songs for sure 

Which version? The early one that they released or the new one that leaked?

[CaioAKR]

For all we know, it's highly unlikely that SOG is The General and, if it is, it evolved and changed so much it barely resembles SOG anymore, anyway.

[jimisbatman]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:24 AM, 2020_Intensions said:

Just making fun .. I'm sure it's going be just as epic sounding as we believe it to be. Bach described it as the angriest he's ever heard Axl. I don't think he was exaggerating. The orchestral underlayer we've known for a while now is reason enough to believe this song will live up to its legend.

Do we know for certain that the orchestral part is underlayer and not sole track opening music? 

Dont kill me, but pray Slash doesn't completely wreck buckets parts. 

3 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Which version? The early one that they released or the new one that leaked?

Official released version 

[Free Bird]

3 minutes ago, jimisbatman said:

 Official released version 

That one never got me. I can't imagine any version would, but that's the only one I heard.