"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

If we believe Sebastian Bach, Axl still had a trilogy in mind as late as 2007. He probably abandoned the idea after the release of CD, but he continued talking about the "second half" of it.

Do we know what the official reason was that the 2nd album was shelved? Did the record company not find the quality up to par or was it the disappointing sales of CD that gave them cold feet? I always figured it might be because Azoff and Interscope were trying to force Axl into a reunion by killing CD 2's release.

Maybe the "trilogy" could have just been CD 1 and 2 + the remix album?

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Do we know what the official reason was that the 2nd album was shelved? Did the record company not find the quality up to par or was it the disappointing sales of CD that gave them cold feet? I always figured it might be because Azoff and Interscope were trying to force Axl into a reunion by killing CD 2's release.

Maybe the "trilogy" could have just been CD 1 and 2 + the remix album?

Probably because Axl never finished it. 

He was still working on it in 2015. 

[rumandraisin]

14 hours ago, Amir said:

Loved his Prostitute and TWAT solos in Paris:

This is exactly what I wanted from Slash on these songs, and I loved Finck and Bucket's takes on the SCOM and Nightrain solos respectively.

Axls voice. Ouch. 

[gabmmor]

14 hours ago, GNRfanMILO said:

I’ll listen to them later since there is an IEM recording of this show  

Really?

[El Guapo]

38 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

Axls voice. Ouch. 

That TWAT is unlistenable, like Mickey with diarrhea. 

[rumandraisin]

8 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

That TWAT is unlistenable, like Mickey with diarrhea. 

Not to turn it in to an Axls voice thread but the majority of songs I think he sounds fine on "all things considered"*.  But stuff like Twat and Prostitute, he can't sing. As nice as it is for hardcore fans to hear these, he sounds atrocious. I don't pay as much attention to the live stuff as once you've checked the first 2 nights tour threads you've sort of seen it all, but this is really bad? 

 

*To use 4tus favourite phrase. 

[megaguns1982]

5 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

The fact that Slash is back in the band alone rules out any possibility that there's any extended Buckethead on a new Guns N Roses song mate. This is full on tinfoil hat territory. Yeah it can happen, Buckethead can show up as a guest spot at the next show, that can happen too, so let's go and claim things that..can happen, I guess?

We can go around claiming there will be DJ Ashba riffs on the next song, I mean it can happen right? And at that point the forum has reached full padded cell mode instead of useful discussion. It's more useful to go with theories of something that is atleast somewhat realistic. Slash will make sure to be all over any song this band will ever release again, after being gone for some 20 years.

I didn’t “claim” anything, calm down.

[Sweersa]

If Robin got two seconds in Perhaps maybe they will give Bucket 4 seconds in The General 😂 

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

If Robin got two seconds in Perhaps maybe they will give Bucket 4 seconds in The General 😂 

two seconds tops, don't be greedy. (and for it to not be too much for you, I think it's best if it's two seconds with killswitch)

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

*To use 4tus favourite phrase. 

Slash's

[DSTK]

3 hours ago, gabmmor said:

Really?

I've searched every forum going and there's no IEM out there, there's an ok phone recording of the whole show...but an IEM, can't be found anywhere 

[Sweersa]

26 minutes ago, Rovim said:

two seconds tops, don't be greedy. (and for it to not be too much for you, I think it's best if it's two seconds with killswitch)

Maybe two songs with the kill switch! 

[TrixAreForKids]

5 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Axls voice. Ouch. 

Yeah he should stop singing while Slash plays the solo! Completely stop! Haha

[Gordon Comstock]

1 hour ago, DSTK said:

I've searched every forum going and there's no IEM out there, there's an ok phone recording of the whole show...but an IEM, can't be found anywhere 

 

The France IEM was shared a few days ago. 

[Voodoochild]

10 hours ago, Ak1nney said:

What makes The General the holy grail of what we haven't heard? I didn't think a demo had even leaked. One thing I know though... If people are building it up to be this epic, best CD-era song ever, they are bound to set themselves up to be disappointed. High expectations are RARELY ever met.

I think the hype is a combination of quotes from Bach etc. and how the orchestral arrangement sounds. 

To me, what I really expect from the song is a cool CD-era style of composition combined with a huge Slash solo, a thing that's still sorely missing IMO in all those new singles since 2021.

[Blackstar]

7 hours ago, RONIN said:

Do we know what the official reason was that the 2nd album was shelved? Did the record company not find the quality up to par or was it the disappointing sales of CD that gave them cold feet? I always figured it might be because Azoff and Interscope were trying to force Axl into a reunion by killing CD 2's release.

Maybe the "trilogy" could have just been CD 1 and 2 + the remix album?

Nobody knows. There's been only unconfirmed rumours that the second album was rejected by the label in 2010. Fernando flat out denied that rumour.

I don't think the remix album was part of the "trilogy", because Axl mentioned it separately.

[Grayfox]

18 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

The France IEM was shared a few days ago. 

Really? I guess I missed that one. Crazy

[2020_Intensions]

8 hours ago, RONIN said:

Do we know what the official reason was that the 2nd album was shelved? Did the record company not find the quality up to par or was it the disappointing sales of CD that gave them cold feet? I always figured it might be because Azoff and Interscope were trying to force Axl into a reunion by killing CD 2's release.

Maybe the "trilogy" could have just been CD 1 and 2 + the remix album?

It's still a mystery to this day. 

And the 3rd album was not intended to be the remix album, because the remix album is, well, a remix album.

[2020_Intensions]

51 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Nobody knows. There's been only unconfirmed rumours that the second album was rejected by the label in 2010. Fernando flat out denied that rumour.

 

What adds to the mystery too is that Axl (and GnR) were all over the news in 2014 right after the final NuGuns tour ended with ChiDem 2 and the remix album apparently in the pipelines ready to release. Then 2 guitarists and the bass player quit. So was that the catalyst that shelved (again) ChiDem 2 and directly led to the reunion? Slash and Duff then went through ChiDem 2 and picked the songs they liked and would be willing to work on, which is now what we're getting in piecemeal. So did Bumble, Ashba, and Stintson, by quitting the band, in effect, kill ChiDem 2? 

[DSTK]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

The France IEM was shared a few days ago. 

Where ? I've searched the usual haunts ( guitars 101 and so on ) 

[bumbleslash69]

17 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

Slash and Duff then went through ChiDem 2 and picked the songs they liked and would be willing to work on, which is now what we're getting in piecemeal.

I’ve always felt this was what most likely happened. More so than the Village leaks influencing anything, I think there was a whole shelved album sitting there. 
 

There is a ton of mystery on the release of CD2. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a correlation in the album being shelved, nuGnR disbursing, and the reunion lining up. No clue in what order those events transpired or who made the call. The general mystery of the band and CD will always be more interesting than the actual music at this point. 

[Seb91]

13 minutes ago, bumbleslash69 said:

I’ve always felt this was what most likely happened. More so than the Village leaks influencing anything, I think there was a whole shelved album sitting there. 
 

There is a ton of mystery on the release of CD2. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a correlation in the album being shelved, nuGnR disbursing, and the reunion lining up. No clue in what order those events transpired or who made the call. The general mystery of the band and CD will always be more interesting than the actual music at this point. 

It's interesting to think about! There was that rumour that CD2 was good to go and the label rejected it which wouldn't surprise me. I mean, we know now that there was enough for a record (especially as Tommy had two lead vocal songs). I can imagine the label weren't particularly enthusiastic about more NuGuns music given Chinese didn't set the world on fire when it actually came out. 

In terms of NuGuns, I think Ron was the only one who quit due to the lack of material in 2014. Tommy left due to stuff in his family life and so I wonder if Tommy hadn't had to leave whether the reunion would have happened. I mean, I figure both Ron and Tommy going meant I wouldn't be surprised if Axl asked Duff to come back full-time and then he acted as a bridge to Slash as Axl needed a guitarist (I guess the band could have gone on with just DJ though...) and Slash was going through a divorce so was probably more amenable. I'm guessing the reunion wouldn't have happened if both Axl and Slash hadn't needed it to some degree. 

It seems really the reunion was really just another NuGuns lineup in practical terms as none of the members were told they had to leave. I mean, Pitman was fired wasn't he due to his social media comments? Ashba was invited to be part of the reunion but declined. It seems everyone that was still around could have been in the band still if they wanted to (or hadn't said anything stupid ). 

 

[rumandraisin]

All the above concerning CD2 in 2010 is just speculation though. 

[Mikey Whipwreck]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

Do we know what the official reason was that the 2nd album was shelved? Did the record company not find the quality up to par or was it the disappointing sales of CD that gave them cold feet? I always figured it might be because Azoff and Interscope were trying to force Axl into a reunion by killing CD 2's release.

Maybe the "trilogy" could have just been CD 1 and 2 + the remix album?

Axl said in early 2006 that they were working on 32 songs and 26 were "almost" done. So that would be about 2.5 albums worth of material, maybe more if there are some 6-8 minute songs in there. Didn't the trilogy quote come from Bach? He probably heard about 2.5-3 hours worth of music and figured that's 3 albums worth 

[Seb91]

3 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

All the above concerning CD2 in 2010 is just speculation though. 

Yeah, I mean I did specify it was a rumour and that it was just my musings on it. I really wish the reality of what happened would come out at some point  though. Axl seemed excited to be presenting the CD stuff that hadn't been played live before in 2009/10. Then absolutely nothing in terms of new music for four years. 

There's also an interesting Tommy comment in an interview  where he said it was supposed to be a double album. "We did a lot of stuff that was supposed to be on Chinese Democracy – the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it." Doesn't mean they actually had enough good to go though. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Seb91