Atlas Shrugged (November Release?)

[Voodoochild]

4 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Axl must of cared a bit about the song, why ask one of his heroes, Sir Brian to play on that one of many demoed....it has potential, I'm sure Slash has worked on it! 

Yeah, he cares to that degree, but I don't think it got the standard he wanted back then. I believe he said something about the mix not working, but it may be more about the arrangement. 

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The "glam November Rain" description came from Jeff Leeds, the writer of the New York Times article. The demos Leeds heard were most likely the same one we heard in the locker leaks. The common denominator is Tom Zutaut, who was one of the main sources of that article. Classic Rock probably heard the same demos in 2008 (again mentioned in an article-interview with Tom Zutaut).

Oh, I stand correct then. But yeah, Zutaut was clearly their source. 

Another incorrect description IMO was the Chinese Democracy with a punk-rock vibe. I mean, the song is heavier, but it was almost the same thing as it was in the 2001/02 performances.

[colonizedmind]

1 minute ago, Voodoochild said:

Yeah, he cares to that degree, but I don't think it got the standard he wanted back then. I believe he said something about the mix not working, but it may be more about the arrangement. 

Oh, I stand correct then. But yeah, Zutaut was clearly their source. 

Another incorrect description IMO was the Chinese Democracy with a punk-rock vibe. I mean, the song is heavier, but it was almost the same thing as it was in the 2001/02 performances.

Yes, we have to remember, all art is in the eye of the beholder but yea, not the greatest comparisons! I do think @Voodoochildthough, the fact if Bumble is to be believed (he seemed an honest straight up dude) Atlas was almost on the record and if it had leaked before, probably been on...he saved it from CD2...AND it wss still being worked on and considered 9 years after the initial conception, whole most of those other locker leaks seemed long trashed....also it's one of a handful he actually recorded a full vocal for....not liking the mix is typical Axl perfectionism but if anything, shows, he had a plan for this song (still may do)  and it needed to be just how he wanted it in his head...I think when we/if we get it, it will be one of the most changed from demos, at least instrumentally IMO.

[AxlRQ93]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:14 AM, Mikey Whipwreck said:

 

I always thought Axl doing a punk song by way of The Prodigy and Crystal Method was hilarious. That and Eye On You would have added some welcome levity to the imaginary 2000 or 2001 version of CD. They are not great songs but they are fun, weird and unexpected 

The final version is old men making a generic punk-ish rock song. A lot of the personality is gone. And I hate the way the vocals are edited, it ruins the song for me. If not for that aspect it would be alright 

you can say the same for the title track too, the personality gone. the original silkworms was cool fun a good techno club song. 

[Blackstar]

22 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Oh, I stand correct then. But yeah, Zutaut was clearly their source. 

Yeah, the description wasn't in the NY Times article itself, but in a Sp1at article citing a conversation they had with Jeff Leeds:

Jeff Leeds has spoken to Splat about some 'new' tracks he encountered during his recent investigations for his GN'R article in the NY Times.

The first track, 'Atlas Shrugged' is described as being somewhere between 70's glam rock and 'November Rain'. Another new track, 'Quick Song', is a rock song with a riff similar to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit. The last track, 'Zodiac', is described as an electronic, industrial song.

It is likely that these tracks are older GN'R tracks, so it is unclear whether these tracks will have been A-listed for the forthcoming Guns N' Roses, 'Chinese Democracy'.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050418002220/http://www.sp1at.com/item.php?id=295

(His descriptions of Quick Song and Zodiac were accurate, though).

[Voodoochild]

14 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, the description wasn't in the NY Times article itself, but in a Sp1at article citing a conversation they had with Jeff Leeds:

Jeff Leeds has spoken to Splat about some 'new' tracks he encountered during his recent investigations for his GN'R article in the NY Times.

The first track, 'Atlas Shrugged' is described as being somewhere between 70's glam rock and 'November Rain'. Another new track, 'Quick Song', is a rock song with a riff similar to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit. The last track, 'Zodiac', is described as an electronic, industrial song.

It is likely that these tracks are older GN'R tracks, so it is unclear whether these tracks will have been A-listed for the forthcoming Guns N' Roses, 'Chinese Democracy'.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050418002220/http://www.sp1at.com/item.php?id=295

(His descriptions of Quick Song and Zodiac were accurate, though).

Yeah, though Quick Song's main riff wasn't the Smells Like Teen Spirit one. Its kinda misleading, but I get that it sticks out.

Wonder why sp1at said those were "likely" older tracks. I do think some of the instrumentals are most guitar riff based than the CD tracks, but I still think those were written by the 1999 lineup.

[Blackstar]

11 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Yeah, though Quick Song's main riff wasn't the Smells Like Teen Spirit one. Its kinda misleading, but I get that it sticks out.

Wonder why sp1at said those were "likely" older tracks. I do think some of the instrumentals are most guitar riff based than the CD tracks, but I still think those were written by the 1999 lineup.

I guess by "older" they just meant older than 2005 and coming from the early stages of the CD writing sessions. There was another Sp1at article from a few months later saying that those tracks dated from 2000:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5352-2005-07-28-sp1at-chinese-democracy-july-update

[Voodoochild]

8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess by "older" they just meant older than 2005 and coming from the early stages of the CD writing sessions. There was another Sp1at article from a few months later saying that those tracks dated from 2000:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5352-2005-07-28-sp1at-chinese-democracy-july-update

I'd love to check out more of those old articles. It gives me back some memories. 

I strongly remember Merck stating that IRS was not as good as 10 other CD tracks. I don't think that's true.

Other funny comment is from Buckmaster: "'TWAT', an acronym for 'There Was a Time', was not regarded as a memorable song by Paul Buckmaster". To me it's one of the best GNR songs ever written. But maybe there was no Bucket solo back then? I dunno.

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'd love to check out more of those old articles. It gives me back some memories. 

I strongly remember Merck stating that IRS was not as good as 10 other CD tracks. I don't think that's true.

Other funny comment is from Buckmaster: "'TWAT', an acronym for 'There Was a Time', was not regarded as a memorable song by Paul Buckmaster". To me it's one of the best GNR songs ever written. But maybe there was no Bucket solo back then? I dunno.

We have a few of the Sp1at articles from 2005/6 (the ones that could be retrieved via wayback machine) at a-4-d (there are also some posted as comments under the NY Times and London Times articles):

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2861-interview-and-article-index#21239

 

[Voodoochild]

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

We have a few of the Sp1at articles from 2005/6 (the ones that could be retrieved via wayback machine) at a-4-d (there are also some posted as comments under the NY Times and London Times articles):

https://www.a-4-d.com/t2861-interview-and-article-index#21239

 

I know, thanks! But I was supposed to be working right now and instead I'm reading 20 year old articles about 25 year old songs 

[Blackstar]

I still wonder about the date of Marco Beltrami's arrangements for TWAT, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute and Street of Dreams. Another little mystery. I've only read about Buckmaster's arrangements on those and Beltrami's arrangements on The General, Seven etc., but according to the liner notes Beltrami clearly worked on the first group of songs as well (Edit: in the case of TIL only Beltrami is credited for orchestral arrangement, not Buckmaster).

Edited August 28, 2023 by Blackstar

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, the description wasn't in the NY Times article itself, but in a Sp1at article citing a conversation they had with Jeff Leeds:

Jeff Leeds has spoken to Splat about some 'new' tracks he encountered during his recent investigations for his GN'R article in the NY Times.

The first track, 'Atlas Shrugged' is described as being somewhere between 70's glam rock and 'November Rain'. Another new track, 'Quick Song', is a rock song with a riff similar to 'Smells Like Teen Spirit. The last track, 'Zodiac', is described as an electronic, industrial song.

It is likely that these tracks are older GN'R tracks, so it is unclear whether these tracks will have been A-listed for the forthcoming Guns N' Roses, 'Chinese Democracy'.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050418002220/http://www.sp1at.com/item.php?id=295

(His descriptions of Quick Song and Zodiac were accurate, though).

Well somewhere "between" doesn't mean sounds like November Rain. Does it....we've ran with that bit more as "sounds LIKE NR" 

That hit the nail on the head with Quick Song though! Immediately thought of Nirvana first time!

5 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I know, thanks! But I was supposed to be working right now and instead I'm reading 20 year old articles about 25 year old songs 

Masochist

Edited August 28, 2023 by colonizedmind

[Voodoochild]

11 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I still wonder about the date of Marco Beltrami's arrangements for TWAT, Madagascar, TIL, Prostitute and Street of Dreams. Another little mystery. I've only read about Buckmaster's arrangements on those and Beltrami's arrangements on The General, Seven etc., but according to the liner notes Beltrami clearly worked on the first group of songs as well.

Maybe there was need to adjustments to those songs after some rerecordings and rearrangments (in SOD case).

9 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Well somewhere "between" doesn't mean sounds like November Rain. Does it....we've ran with that bit more as "sounds LIKE NR" 

I still don't think Atlas sound anywhere between glam and November Rain. If anything, to me sounded like an alt-rock mid-90s song. Can't remember an example, but Hootie & The Blowfish came to my mind.

15 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Masochist

It's better than having to deal with Excel spreadsheets. I mean, I was a journalist, and now I'm dealing more with numbers than words haha.

[Free Bird]

45 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'd love to check out more of those old articles. It gives me back some memories. 

I strongly remember Merck stating that IRS was not as good as 10 other CD tracks. I don't think that's true.

Other funny comment is from Buckmaster: "'TWAT', an acronym for 'There Was a Time', was not regarded as a memorable song by Paul Buckmaster". To me it's one of the best GNR songs ever written. But maybe there was no Bucket solo back then? I dunno.

To be fair, at least in my opinion, the guitar solo elevates the song to more than just one level and Axl's screams are great but the songwriting itself like the verses and the chorus is pretty mediocre and far from GNR's best.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Free Bird

[Voodoochild]

22 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

To be fair, at least in my opinion, the guitar solo elevates the song to more than just one level and Axl's screams are great but the songwriting itself like the verses and the chorus is pretty mediocre and far from GNR's best.

I like the verses and the outro's singing part. But yeah, I think the solo elevates it.

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

Maybe there was need to adjustments to those songs after some rerecordings and rearrangments (in SOD case).

I still don't think Atlas sound anywhere between glam and November Rain. If anything, to me sounded like an alt-rock mid-90s song. Can't remember an example, but Hootie & The Blowfish came to my mind.

It's better than having to deal with Excel spreadsheets. I mean, I was a journalist, and now I'm dealing more with numbers than words haha.

Well the journalist was writing the words to hopefully get the numbers, if you feel me ! 

[Arnuld]

Unless they have changed it dramatically Atlas should not be described as between November Rain and Glam Rock. I can kinda see the Glam Rock but even that’s a stretch. The other songs were absolutely described accurately. I wonder why the writer had such a hard time describing Atlas. The first minute is kinda like the who and zeppelin and then it just kinda turns into a genre late 90s rock song with a really good Brian May solo. 

[CaioAKR]

I think the writer was just looking for any GN'R ballad to make the comparison and November Rain was, like, right there. lol It would absolutely be better to compare Atlas to Yesterdays, though. 

 

[Arnuld]

50 minutes ago, CaioAKR said:

I think the writer was just looking for any GN'R ballad to make the comparison and November Rain was, like, right there. lol It would absolutely be better to compare Atlas to Yesterdays, though. 

 

Agreed Yesterdays is a bit more in the ball park although perhaps is definitely more yesterdays. I would have said think the who and Led Zeppelin crossed with third eye blind with a Brian May guitar solo

[2020_Intensions]

7 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I think Axl was never satisfied with the song. He could've included on CD if he cared enough instead of those long-ass unnecessary intros to CD and Riad.

About the "Glam November Rain" description, as far as I know it was from a Classic Rock article that mostly certain used Tom Zutaut as a source, including access to those demos - the same ones we have now. I honestly believe the writer was describing other song (The Blues? Perhaps? I don't know) and mistook it by Atlas.

Those "long ass unnecessary" intros to those songs adds a lot of atmosphere and make both songs more than just simple rockers. Waiting for those guitar riffs to kick in and then Axl's wailing is a great experience, every time. 

[JAxlMorrison]

4 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Maybe there was need to adjustments to those songs after some rerecordings and rearrangments (in SOD case).

I still don't think Atlas sound anywhere between glam and November Rain. If anything, to me sounded like an alt-rock mid-90s song. Can't remember an example, but Hootie & The Blowfish came to my mind.

It's better than having to deal with Excel spreadsheets. I mean, I was a journalist, and now I'm dealing more with numbers than words haha.

Yeah, for some reason when I heard Atlas, I heard Eddie Vedder singing it. Reminded me of a Pearl Jam track. 

[DeNfr]

 

no news on Eye On You being released yet? ok I'm gone

 

(Hi Axl)

[Voodoochild]

21 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

Those "long ass unnecessary" intros to those songs adds a lot of atmosphere and make both songs more than just simple rockers. Waiting for those guitar riffs to kick in and then Axl's wailing is a great experience, every time. 

To me both are way too long. The Sean Beaven demo got the right intro to CD in my opinion. Riad never needed those stolen samples with added noise. And I love the song, always did.

19 minutes ago, JAxlMorrison said:

Yeah, for some reason when I heard Atlas, I heard Eddie Vedder singing it. Reminded me of a Pearl Jam track. 

Yeah, it feels a lot like those post-grunge alt rock scene. And I do like that era, but I think Axl spent way too much time watching MTV in the late 90s.

[2020_Intensions]

56 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

To me both are way too long. The Sean Beaven demo got the right intro to CD in my opinion. Riad never needed those stolen samples with added noise. And I love the song, always did.

Yeah, it feels a lot like those post-grunge alt rock scene. And I do like that era, but I think Axl spent way too much time watching MTV in the late 90s.

The Sean Beaven demo doesn't fit with the overall mood and feel of the finished tracks though. 

[ToonGuns]

1 hour ago, JAxlMorrison said:

Yeah, for some reason when I heard Atlas, I heard Eddie Vedder singing it. Reminded me of a Pearl Jam track. 

It’s the dropped beats and drums speeding along the song. Very reminiscent of Matt Cameron. That’s why the song sounds a little like latter-era Soundgarden as well.

[Outofgascar]

I’m not understanding the reason for another song to be released in November if the perhaps single is being shipped on October 27th. People will be digesting The General at that point and another single like Atlas would get in the way…..unless it’s an album or EP in November. 

IF there is another new song, wouldn’t it be released late September to mirror the releases of 2021? That’s what I think will happen. The General will launch late September or mid October. 
 

GnR logistics feels like common core maths.