11/05/23 - Toluca, MX - Hell and Heaven Fest

[Rindmelon]

48 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Gosh....well hopefully makes room for them to do a longer set now....

So they can fit in half of KOHD?

[D4NNY]

23 minutes ago, Cosmo said:

Dude, it's literally their job. Not their hobby. 

Then they should get to work then.. maybe if they played more shows for less maybe they’d get more following and paid more in the long run  but back to serious, people could have bought tickets with the idea of seeing one or more of these bands as a highlight for them and then these bands just “seemingly” cancel because they can’t/won’t get what that feel they deserve.. who loses out? Their fans.

[Voodoochild]

7 minutes ago, D4NNY said:

Then they should get to work then.. maybe if they played more shows for less maybe they’d get more following and paid more in the long run  but back to serious, people could have bought tickets with the idea of seeing one or more of these bands as a highlight for them and then these bands just “seemingly” cancel because they can’t/won’t get what that feel they deserve.. who loses out? Their fans.

Would you like to work for less to gain more "visibility"? And if everybody does the same, would you accept the devaluation of your work hours? Better yet, would you travel to another country/place by your own expenses to work for free?

[Rindmelon]

when are they on stage?

 

[kingcanyon]

6 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

when are they on stage?

 

6 hours just over

[D4NNY]

2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Would you like to work for less to gain more "visibility"? And if everybody does the same, would you accept the devaluation of your work hours? Better yet, would you travel to another country/place by your own expenses to work for free?

Completely understand what you’re saying but If you’re a new band I’m sure that’s sorta how it works? Start from the bottom and work your way up? Like most careers? I would take a guess most of these bands are not scraping the barrel with expenses? It’s a festival to perform for potential fans and possible new fans? Is there no importance to that over money? I’m talking in terms of newer or smaller bands as apposed to bands that are already at the top and have a decades long career 

[Rindmelon]

2 minutes ago, D4NNY said:

Completely understand what you’re saying but If you’re a new band I’m sure that’s sorta how it works? Start from the bottom and work your way up? Like most careers? I would take a guess most of these bands are not scraping the barrel with expenses? It’s a festival to perform for potential fans and possible new fans? Is there no importance to that over money? I’m talking in terms of newer or smaller bands as apposed to bands that are already at the top and have a decades long career 

At least some of those bands like Coal Chamber have been around since the late 90's. 

[D4NNY]

I’m only saying some of these newer bands should be happy to play something as exciting as this, regardless of a smaller pay. Did GNR just give up and turn around when they broke down in the middle of nowhere on the way to Seattle in ‘85 for one tiny club gig that only paid enough to cover lunch for them all? No they found a way and did what they love doing.. playing and making a name for themselves. They made the effort. Sorry my view of work differs from any one else’s but if you want to climb there has to be some sacrifice in the beginning  

[adamsapple]

1 minute ago, D4NNY said:

Completely understand what you’re saying but If you’re a new band I’m sure that’s sorta how it works? Start from the bottom and work your way up? Like most careers? I would take a guess most of these bands are not scraping the barrel with expenses? It’s a festival to perform for potential fans and possible new fans? Is there no importance to that over money? I’m talking in terms of newer or smaller bands as apposed to bands that are already at the top and have a decades long career 

If you're on a festival with artists like Muse and Guns N' Roses, I highly doubt you're a "new" band unless you're rich or in some relation to one of the stars performing.

As for play to play "for the exposure", that never works as you never reach your actual audience. If "fans" won't spend a little money to have you perform so the promoter can at least cover your expenses and give you a proper presentation, chances are they all might as well give a fuck about who's playing what in the first place and you end up trying to find gold in a silver mine there. No musician who's toured for a bit will play "for the exposure" unless is a high profile gig with actual exposure to speak of.

So yeah, maybe someone should break it to those "new" bands they just passed on a chance to be on a bill with Guns N' Roses. Or maybe the promoter fucked it up so badly they just don't care.

Having one or two bands cancelling can happen for any festival, but that long list of acts? All at the same time? Without replacements?

Gonna be an interesting gig for sure.

 

[vloors]

4 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

I know of maybe 2 of these bands……

 

the bigger bands get paid up front with secure deals. Sucks that the little guys are the ones getting screwed over 

AKA, every attempt DB Ashba made while trying to play a Guns tune. 

Thats totally not true. Big festival acts are paid after the shows too. Headliners soundgarden 2.1 mill owed, 1.6 for smashing pumpkins, 1.6 for slipknot only 484k for SMKC and many others owed.

I went to this festival. Sad the acts didnt get paid as most were great 

https://musicfeeds.com.au/news/heres-much-money-soundwave-2015-acts-owed/

Debts Owed To Soundwave 2015 Acts (In $AUD)

All Time Low — $141,144.70

Animals as Leaders — $16,607.14

Antemasque — $138,721.43

Apocalyptica — $65,601.90

Area-7 — $7,594.20

Atreyu — $52,044.64

Coldrain — $16,270.50

Crossfaith — $25,431.55

Deathstars — $17,500.00

Dragonforce — $21,000.00

Emily’s Army — $19,185.29

Escape the Fate — $21,985.68

Faith No More — $751,076.20

Falling In Reverse — $54,064.98

Fall Out Boy — $394,107.14

Fear Factory — $78,263.96

Fucked Up — $24,779.40

Gerard Way — $89,510.75

Godflesh — $33,314.00

Godsmack — $200,000.00

Hollywood Undead — $65,183.54

Incubus — $571,428.58

Judas Priest — $349,560.55

Killer Be Killed — $24,513.00

Lagwagon — $30,274.52

Lamb of God — $161,323.33

Live Nation Worldwide, Inc — $1,180,325.56

Lower Than Atlantis — $18,800.06

Marilyn Manson — $588,000.56

Millencolin — $91,874.50

Ministry — $203,952.01

Monuments — $19,153.00

Ne Obliviscaris — $5,720.60

New Found Glory — $43,279.88

Nonpoint — $8,137.54

Nothing More — $35,000.00

Of Mice and Men — $29,040.00

Papa Roach — $93,050.93

Patent Pending — $22,000.00

Slash — $484,628.00

Sleepwave — $17,470.35

Slipknot — $1,645,299.29

Soundgarden — $2,132,075.00

Steel Panther — $92,517.57

The Aquabats — $32,787.26

The Color Morale — $11,464.58

The Interrupters — $20,231.14

The Raglans — $11,059.82

The Smashing Pumpkins — $1,267,446.43

The Swellers — $21,412.24

The Treatment — $8,193.74

The Vandals — $57,142.86

Tonight Alive — $38,500.00

Twin Atlantic — $20,154.85

Edited November 5, 2023 by vloors

[Rindmelon]

Jesus how were Godsmack supposed to be pulling in that much

[janrichmond]

15 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

Jesus how were Godsmack supposed to be pulling in that much

It's Aussie dollars around half of UK £s  and just over half in $$

[Rindmelon]

3 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

It's Aussie dollars around half of UK £s  and just over half in $$

Ahh that makes more sense, thanks

[vloors]

8 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

It's Aussie dollars around half of UK £s  and just over half in $$

In 2015 conversion was AUD 75c to USD $1.

Godsmack was still overpaid lol

[Rindmelon]

8 minutes ago, vloors said:

In 2015 conversion was AUD 75c to USD $1.

Godsmack was still overpaid lol

Iv'e seen them support someone & I couldnt tell you who, but they were very....mid  

[Gordon Comstock]

I've seen Godsmack a few times at festivals, they're a solid live band. They're worth seeing at least once just for the drum solo.

 

 

[janrichmond]

7 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

They're worth seeing at least once just for the drum solo.

Matt Sorum level? 

[Gordon Comstock]

2 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Matt Sorum level? 

 

No, the Godsmack one is enjoyable

[Rindmelon]

I remember now they were supporting Metallica. Yeah the two drummer thing right? There was a time where allegedly gnr planned 2 drummers on stage, Frank and Brain. Sounds silly but the stage plan video's from 2012/ish are out there showing two drum kits. Some songs on CD have them both on & in a band that had 3 guitar players and 2 keyboardists i guess it's the next logical stage lol

[Gordon Comstock]

3 minutes ago, Rindmelon said:

I remember now they were supporting Metallica. Yeah the two drummer thing right? There was a time where allegedly gnr planned 2 drummers on stage, Frank and Brain. Sounds silly but the stage plan video's from 2012/ish are out there showing two drum kits. Some songs on CD have them both on & in a band that had 3 guitar players and 2 keyboardists i guess it's the next logical stage lol

 

Yea, the 'drum battle', it was the most enjoyable part of the show most times I've seen them.

GNR planned that in 2009 I think, Brain would play the CD songs and Frank would play the old songs, pretty sure they wouldn't have been playing songs at the same time. It would've been a stupid decision and they were right to abandon the idea, but I guess Axl was just trying to find something for Brain to do besides remixes?

[Rindmelon]

7 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yea, the 'drum battle', it was the most enjoyable part of the show most times I've seen them.

GNR planned that in 2009 I think, Brain would play the CD songs and Frank would play the old songs, pretty sure they wouldn't have been playing songs at the same time. It would've been a stupid decision and they were right to abandon the idea, but I guess Axl was just trying to find something for Brain to do besides remixes?

not to deviate to much from the thread but

Who knows for sure

[Gordon Comstock]

1 minute ago, Rindmelon said:

not to deviate to much from the thread but

Who knows for sure

 

Yea I remember the mock-up stage design, but I think it was Brain that said he'd play the new songs and Frank would play the old. So even if there was 2 kits on stage I don't think they were ever gonna play songs together. I'll have to look up the quote though, I think it was from around the same time he mentioned the remixes...

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yea, the 'drum battle', it was the most enjoyable part of the show most times I've seen them.

GNR planned that in 2009 I think, Brain would play the CD songs and Frank would play the old songs, pretty sure they wouldn't have been playing songs at the same time. It would've been a stupid decision and they were right to abandon the idea, but I guess Axl was just trying to find something for Brain to do besides remixes?

I think Axl just liked the idea of having two drummers. The first time there was an attempt for that was in 1997 when both Chris Vrenna and Dave Abbruzzese were rehearsing with GN'R.

It also seems that there was a similar idea for the 2016 April shows with Adler playing some AFD stuff and Frank playing the rest.

[Skamos66]

20 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I think Axl just liked the idea of having two drummers. The first time there was an attempt for that was in 1997 when both Chris Vrenna and Dave Abbruzzese were rehearsing with GN'R.

It also seems that there was a similar idea for the 2016 April shows with Adler playing some AFD stuff and Frank playing the rest.

when I first joined the forum back in 2016 I remember posting something suggesting Adler do Appetite, Sorum on Illusions, and Frank on Chinese Democracy.

[colonizedmind]

2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I've seen Godsmack a few times at festivals, they're a solid live band. They're worth seeing at least once just for the drum solo.

 

 

The drum solo really is a dying art....jesus remember when GNR had like 7 solo spots! 😝

Did Pitman ever get one other than towel waving and mimicing drunks...

Edited November 6, 2023 by colonizedmind