A quick convo with Tommy

[RONIN]

As someone earlier said, the GnR job was just another gig to the guy. I doubt he cares even a scintilla about GnR or those songs he recorded in 2000. He's been very upfront about not being a fan of the band, not thinking too highly of the scene GnR came from, etc. It's pretty clear he viewed his scene/band as being of a higher caliber and the GnR thing was a downgrade. And ofcourse Axl, needless to say, heard all that and thought he was the perfect fit.

He's also been upfront that he was barely working and was making ends meet as a telemarketer prior to getting the call from Axl. No punk rock guy with real prospects would be hanging around with Axl and his merry men for 15+ years sporadically playing gigs and recording  bass layer #12 over decade old songs -  or playing instrumental jam #364831 on a tuesday at 2 AM with other random session players. He needed a job and Axl was dumb enough to keep all of these guys on a payroll for over a decade to work once a month on Chinese Democracy instead of reuniting the original lineup. Wasn't Tommy collecting like 200-250k/ yr for GnR - I remember the band salaries discussed here some years ago. That's a doctor's salary for basically doing next to nothing since his boss was MIA most of the time.

[Sweersa]

Tommy played close to where I live a few months back, I found out when it was too late. I'd love to support him at a gig and have a chat with him afterwards, maybe a photo and an autograph on one of my Chinese Democracy booklets. 

If I ever have a quick convo with Melissa, it would probably be me saying: "Sorry, I usually last much longer."

[vloors]

6 hours ago, meadsoap said:

I just want to know why everyone who has worked on ChiDem has been so cagey and evasive whenever anyone asks them to get specific about what actually happened. It's almost always the exact same of vague statements like someone gave them a list of acceptable responses. It's so odd.

Feels to me it was not a enjoyable project or time period for some of the artists.

[meadsoap]

17 minutes ago, vloors said:

Feels to me it was not a enjoyable project or time period for some of the artists.

For Buckethead and Bumblefoot, I know.

But Robin Finck, DJ Ashba, Tommy, Brian Mantia, and Josh Freese all have spoken positively of their experience in the band, even if they also criticized some aspects of it too. The main issue isn't that they haven't said how they feel, it's that they refuse to go into details. Tommy in particular recently did a interview where he spoke about how proud he was of the work he did with CD.

Honestly, I think they might have signed NDAs or something.

Edited October 12, 2023 by meadsoap

[kiwiguns]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

As someone earlier said, the GnR job was just another gig to the guy. I doubt he cares even a scintilla about GnR or those songs he recorded in 2000. He's been very upfront about not being a fan of the band, not thinking too highly of the scene GnR came from, etc. It's pretty clear he viewed his scene/band as being of a higher caliber and the GnR thing was a downgrade. And ofcourse Axl, needless to say, heard all that and thought he was the perfect fit.

He's also been upfront that he was barely working and was making ends meet as a telemarketer prior to getting the call from Axl. No punk rock guy with real prospects would be hanging around with Axl and his merry men for 15+ years sporadically playing gigs and recording  bass layer #12 over decade old songs -  or playing instrumental jam #364831 on a tuesday at 2 AM with other random session players. He needed a job and Axl was dumb enough to keep all of these guys on a payroll for over a decade to work once a month on Chinese Democracy instead of reuniting the original lineup. Wasn't Tommy collecting like 200-250k/ yr for GnR - I remember the band salaries discussed here some years ago. That's a doctor's salary for basically doing next to nothing since his boss was MIA most of the time.

Not sure we're you got that from, more so from a few simple words that came out of Tommy's mouth. 

Tommy has moved on in life, and generally things from the past hold no relevance to the future more so when you aren't involved in that relationship anymore.

Tommy left the band to tend to family matters. I respect the man for that alone, as many of us fathers have left our jobs/professions for the same reason. 

I would suggest Axl respected that decision... 

Tommy strikes me as a person who knows, its not his place to speak about things, out of respect to others.

Tommy was highly respected by all involved during the period he was involved in the band... 

Just relate some of this to general life. Would you want to talk about something that happened 20 years ago like a bad relationship/marriage break up, or a previous job and wouldn't you want to move on in life and out of respect to others involved, and to not open a new can of worms, wouldn't it be better, to just say nothing... 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by kiwiguns

[Sweersa]

Tommy didn’t speak highly about Bucket during his last interview with AFD.

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

Tommy didn’t speak highly about Bucket during his last interview with AFD.

Which speaks volumes about Tommy if you ask me. He also wasn't the nicest guy to Bumblefoot either.

Edited October 12, 2023 by RONIN

[vloors]

42 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Tommy didn’t speak highly about Bucket during his last interview with AFD.

Yep and Tommy made out he was the real driving force in the band if we are referring to the same interview.

Seemed very cocky to me.

[RONIN]

50 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

Not sure we're you got that from, more so from a few simple words that came out of Tommy's mouth.

I wasn't referring to this interview - what he said here seemed pretty straightforward. I'm referring to his older interviews. 

Quote

 

Tommy has moved on in life, and generally things from the past hold no relevance to the future more so when you aren't involved in that relationship anymore.

Tommy left the band to tend to family matters. I respect the man for that alone, as many of us fathers have left our jobs/professions for the same reason. 

 

Yeah, fully agree and I think all of that applies to most people. Tommy probably worked on the bulk of those CD tracks in the late 90's. Anyone would have moved on by that point.

I'm not taking a shot at Tommy with my previous post by the way. He is what he is - a guy who needed a job and did solid work for GnR. If anything, I'm critical of Axl for hiring him in the first place.

Quote

I would suggest Axl respected that decision... 

Well...I don't know if it was Axl or management, but as per Tommy, there was some drama over him leaving but I guess they worked it out since he seems to be on decent terms with GnR Inc. But he says he hasn't spoken to Axl in years which is....normal in GnR land I guess?

Quote

Tommy strikes me as a person who knows, its not his place to speak about things, out of respect to others.

I get the opposite impression. He doesn't seem like someone who would hold back his opinion. He certainly hasn't hidden his distaste for Buckethead. Dealing with GnR's (Axl) penchant for litigation I imagine is a good motivator to not stray too far from the company line.

Quote

Tommy was highly respected by all involved during the period he was involved in the band... 

No doubt. He has a lot of credibility based on his past work in The Replacements and it appears like Axl, Duff, and most of the other nu band members held him in high regard.

Quote

Just relate some of this to general life. Would you want to talk about something that happened 20 years ago like a bad relationship/marriage break up, or a previous job and wouldn't you want to move on in life and out of respect to others involved, and to not open a new can of worms, wouldn't it be better, to just say nothing... 

Yeah, I fully agree - this was never in question. No one blames him for being so far removed from this stuff. I'm just of the opinion that nu GnR should have had members that actually respected the band's legacy and felt honored to be part of the band. It seems like Axl was hiring a lot of people who were (at best) ambivalent about the job. Tommy's attitude towards joining Guns is very different from Sorum, Gilby, or Bumblefoot who were honored to be part of the band. Allegedly Buckethead was also a fan of Axl and GnR.

It reminds me of the Dave Abbruzese situation a bit. He had the same sort of distaste for GnR as Tommy, but he thought the ideas Axl had were cool. Just like Tommy. Dave wanted to potentially be a part of that stuff...but as a wholly different entity away from GnR. Trying to meld that newer sound to the GnR brand and sound made him get cold feet. And he had the integrity to walk away. As did Bucket, Finck, Freese, Brain, Vrenna, etc. Even Bumble left. None of those guys stuck around for 15+ years as salaried employees like Tommy.

[Ak1nney]

Pretty weird this turned into a Tommy bashing thread. He was in a band for a LONG time that barely released an album. The guy could dish all kinds of dirt on how obnoxious certain things about the band and Axl were, but instead, he just goes about his life doing what he wants. He did his part in the band and has now moved on. This whole "Tommy never cared" stuff is really dumb. Was this a job to him? Hell yeah, it was (just as it was for every other hired member at the time). Also, people really underestimate the commitment and effort it takes to go on tour, especially with someone like Axl that pulled his showing up late shit non-stop back then. I'd say he's treated his time in and out of the band with more respect than most people would. 

[RONIN]

6 hours ago, meadsoap said:

I think the fact Axl was upset about Tommy going shows that he cared for him and valued his presence. Same reason why he was saying "fuck Izzy" on stage some nights during the UYI tour, and other nights saying he missed Izzy a lot and wished he was there. That's kind of always been Axl's M.O. 

Personally, I think there's a good chance Tommy and Axl are on good terms, considering that Tommy has gone to multiple reunion concerts to watch them play. I can't imagine Tommy doing that if things were bad between them. But it's a tossup whether they actually talk or not. I think not, since Axl doesn't seem to talk to anyone outside of his core circle of people with any regularity. DJ Ashba (I know how much this site dislikes him but it's relevant) said pretty much exactly this. That Axl lives in his own bubble, and once your out of the bubble then that's it. Not necessarily because there's any hard feelings, but because Axl just doesn't interact with many people at once.

If he cared that much about Izzy, then maybe don't give the guy who co-founded the band a contract demoting him?

If he cared that much about Tommy leaving, postpone the tour or figure out a way to make the schedules work instead of saying No and leaving Tommy no choice but to quit? Seems pretty straightforward. This is a guy who would throw tantrums about not going on stage unless he gets a lamb dinner with yorkshire pudding or being 4 hrs late to a gig because he was watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 in his hotel room or seeing fireworks in Paris. Nothing happens without Axl's say so. He has no problem canceling gigs, cancelling tours, not showing up whenever he wants to put on his furcoat and hit the club. Figuring out a tour to accommodate Tommy who needed to take care of his kid doesn't seem insurmountable.

[Blackstar]

41 minutes ago, RONIN said:

If he cared that much about Tommy leaving, postpone the tour or figure out a way to make the schedules work instead of saying No and leaving Tommy no choice but to quit?

I guess it depends on whether the tour had already been booked or not. Because if it was booked there were contracts probably with stipulations about postponements that wouldn't be due to a health issue, so there could be lawsuits.

[vloors]

27 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess it depends on whether the tour had already been booked or not. Because if it was booked there were contracts probably with stipulations about postponements that wouldn't be due to a health issue, so there could be lawsuits.

He could have just been replaced for a period then come back. Not outright be forced to quit.

[Blackstar]

11 minutes ago, vloors said:

He could have just been replaced for a period then come back. Not outright be forced to quit.

But I don't think he was forced to quit - I don't think he even quit. He supposedly was replaced temporarily by Duff and returned for the last Vegas residency shows in 2014. Then there were no more shows, and then the reunion happened.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Blackstar

[Seb91]

Find the Tommy bashing a bit odd to be honest. He’s obviously great with fans and happy to talk about Guns and sign GN’R stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if he and the other guys from that era signed NDAs and so are restricted in terms of what they can say. Re Bucket, it does seem Bucket is always ‘on’ and in the Bucket persona, whilst the guy is a guitar wizard I can imagine that could get grating after a while, especially if you just want to rehearse. 

I think the key thing is ultimately that Tommy left GN’R the best part of a decade ago and probably last recorded with the band the best part of two decades ago. I mean, recording’s recording as well, not as many anecdotes about that compared to shows/tours etc. 

In terms of not listening to Perhaps, I don’t find that odd at all. It’d be pretty unhealthy if he follows everything his old band is doing. The guy seems to have the right idea re his relationship with GN’R and is having fun playing music. 

[RONIN]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I guess it depends on whether the tour had already been booked or not. Because if it was booked there were contracts probably with stipulations about postponements that wouldn't be due to a health issue, so there could be lawsuits.

Must you bring logic and facts into everything? Can't you let me be critical of Axl as usual

I do wonder though if Tommy decided to quit not so much because of the tour not working out but rather because the writing was on the wall for the reunion. Maybe it was all but certain that nu-Guns was done after that tour? If not, why wouldn't GnR management simply find a replacement just for that tour and let Tommy come back later?  Is there a future where Tommy does not quit and the reunion happens without Duff? Seems unlikely.

[Seb91]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Must you bring logic and facts into everything? Can't you let me be critical of Axl as usual

I do wonder though if Tommy decided to quit not so much because of the tour not working out but rather because the writing was on the wall for the reunion. Maybe it was all but certain that nu-Guns was done after that tour? If not, why wouldn't GnR management simply find a replacement just for that tour and let Tommy come back later?  Is there a future where Tommy does not quit and the reunion happens without Duff? Seems unlikely.

I always wondered what role the Mats reunion played. Duff filled in for Tommy and that created some buzz in the music press. It seems the Mats went into the studio but nothing came of it but it did look as though it was going to be more long term at one point so I wouldn’t be surprised if Axl did ask Duff if he’d be up for rejoining properly if the Mats were back full time as it were. 

Then Bumble hands in his notice and Axl needs a guitar player and Duff is the connection to Slash. 

[Tom2112]

12 hours ago, guitarpatch said:

For someone like Tommy, his parts were essentially done by 1999-2000 for a lot of the material. Everything that got added or tweaked afterwards were probably only heard in passing. It’s possible that he doesn’t remember random stuff he put bass on that wasn’t rehearsed and performed constantly 

He’s also a professional. You don’t burn bridges. Especially with a band that you were a part of for nearly two decades. Relationships are everything in music. He knows the lines that shouldn’t be crossed  

 

Well be re-recorded the bass for the entire album about 3 times according to him so I doubt he was done by 00. He said each time a new producer would come in he would have to record again.

Would he remember everything? No,  but some things would stand out.

[Sweersa]

7 hours ago, vloors said:

Yep and Tommy made out he was the real driving force in the band if we are referring to the same interview.

Seemed very cocky to me.

Yes, I got the same impression. He got really political too, seems like one of those “everyone who doesn’t agree with me are the scum of the earth” types. I’m friends with one or two like that.

8 hours ago, RONIN said:

Which speaks volumes about Tommy if you ask me. He also wasn't the nicest guy to Bumblefoot either.

I strongly believe all those email titles from the MSL documents regarding everyone wanting Tommy out, firing Tommy etc. are legit. 

[themadcaplaughs]

16 hours ago, Blackstar said:

He said in one of the recent interviews (paraphrasing) that he hasn't talked to Axl, but he's on good terms with the camp. I think he must be still in touch with Fortus, at least.

If social media are any indication, he's the only NuGnR member Beta and Dizzy still follow on Instagram (Beta has liked some of his posts, too). He doesn't follow anyone from GN'R though.

When I spoke to him in similar circumstances at the beginning of 2022, he said he talks semi-regularly and will always be cool with Del James. Frank, and Richard. Said he liked Dizzy and DJ Ashba a ton but has not kept in touch with them as much but no ill will at all. 

[themadcaplaughs]

18 hours ago, bumbleslash69 said:

I mentioned it in the General thread. But Tommy is Tommy. He's an old punk rocker showing his age. I wouldn't be surprised if his listening habits are left of the dial of today's mainstream rock. I think he's happy to talk about Guns, but I don't think he cares enough or remembers enough to give too insightful of answers about anything Chinese Democracy related. It seemed very much like it was a gig and far in the rear view when I've seen him and not something he lived and breathed.

While I wouldn't go so far to say he didn't live and breathe it (at least at some point in the history of his tenure), I think this sums it up perfectly. He's been out of the band for almost ten years now, and the last five or so years of the band were really spent just touring. Slash and Duff are back, and he seems to be proud of his accomplishments with the band and happy with how things ended. Like the quote above said, he's happy just doing his own thing and playing these small gigs. Also worth noting is that he gives similar type answers for The Replacements as he does for Guns N' Roses. I think both of them are just a part of his life that ended naturally and he's happy to discuss, but it does not really have any bearing on his present output. 

Also, think of how many years and sessions the dude played on from 1998-2006 (when we assume the bulk of the recording happened). I think it's completely realistic he would not have a great memory of the minutiae and hasn't had the time yet to listen to "Perhaps".  

Edited October 12, 2023 by themadcaplaughs

[Bitchisback]

20 hours ago, meadsoap said:

I just want to know why everyone who has worked on ChiDem has been so cagey and evasive whenever anyone asks them to get specific about what actually happened. It's almost always the exact same of vague statements like someone gave them a list of acceptable responses. It's so odd.

Because this shit all happened 20+ years ago and these guys don't sit around all day reading about Chinese Democracy on the Internet.  Try and remember something that happened at your job 20 years ago and see how well you remember it lol.  They have all recorded multiple times over the years, toured the world 10x over, they are mostly (former or present idk) drug users and alcohol abusers, and honestly what happened with Chinese Democracy 20 years probably just isn't that important to them.  They have all moved on to other parts of their careers.

 

It seems as most look back at that time very fondly however. Maybe not bucket lol. Who knows though 

[meadsoap]

11 hours ago, RONIN said:

If he cared that much about Izzy, then maybe don't give the guy who co-founded the band a contract demoting him?

If he cared that much about Tommy leaving, postpone the tour or figure out a way to make the schedules work instead of saying No and leaving Tommy no choice but to quit? Seems pretty straightforward. This is a guy who would throw tantrums about not going on stage unless he gets a lamb dinner with yorkshire pudding or being 4 hrs late to a gig because he was watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 in his hotel room or seeing fireworks in Paris. Nothing happens without Axl's say so. He has no problem canceling gigs, cancelling tours, not showing up whenever he wants to put on his furcoat and hit the club. Figuring out a tour to accommodate Tommy who needed to take care of his kid doesn't seem insurmountable.

Izzy wouldn't show up to any promotional stuff, wouldn't film music videos, and refused to do anything more than stand there on stage while everybody else was putting 100% into performing. He wasn't even helping to finish up the UYI albums while the others were still working on it. Izzy wasn't doing his job at all at that point, not even the bare minimum. It wasn't right to shove a contract in his face. But when Slash and Axl brought him a contract threatening to demote him if he didn't shape up, it's not like it came out the blue. Izzy's response was to quit instead of compromising, and yes Axl was sad about that. He spent 4 hours on the phone with Izzy crying and pleading with him, trying to figure out a way for Izzy to stay. He wouldn't do that if he didn't care at all, nor would Izzy have sat there listening to him for 4 hours if he didn't care about Axl in return. 

This is obviously two people who cared about each other a lot, but couldn't see eye-to-eye when shit hit the fan. It happens all the time, I don't think anybody deserves to be demonized in this situation.

Edited October 12, 2023 by meadsoap

[bumbleslash69]

Tommy doesn't deserve any bashing at all. It's important to remember at the end of the day, it was a job. These giant bands, especially legacy bands, are businesses. They're not a ragtag crew of people hanging out every day trying to make it big. Tommy took pride in his work, has always praised CD and GnR even if the band and that album aren't "cool" in the eyes of his general audience. Heck, Tommy has alluded to not having much of a present day relationship with Paul Westerberg and he's known him since he was like 12 or something crazy. It's just how life goes. I'm sure plenty of people on here have coworkers from 10, 20, 30 years ago that you haven't talked to but share a lot of good memories with. I think some believe CD and nuGNR were these guys' lives and not just projects and jobs. The band and album were Axl's life. Can't fault a single member of the band for the way they speak or choose not to speak about CD.

[-W.A.R-]

6 hours ago, meadsoap said:

Izzy wouldn't show up to any promotional stuff, wouldn't film music videos, and refused to do anything more than stand there on stage while everybody else was putting 100% into performing. He wasn't even helping to finish up the UYI albums while the others were still working on it. Izzy wasn't doing his job at all at that point, not even the bare minimum. It wasn't right to shove a contract in his face. But when Slash and Axl brought him a contract threatening to demote him if he didn't shape up, it's not like it came out the blue. Izzy's response was to quit instead of compromising, and yes Axl was sad about that. He spent 4 hours on the phone with Izzy crying and pleading with him, trying to figure out a way for Izzy to stay. He wouldn't do that if he didn't care at all, nor would Izzy have sat there listening to him for 4 hours if he didn't care about Axl in return. 

This is obviously two people who cared about each other a lot, but couldn't see eye-to-eye when shit hit the fan. It happens all the time, I don't think anybody deserves to be demonized in this situation.

It's worth noting that Izzy had got clean. Imagine being in the band around that time while sober