THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[bmus1]

9 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

It will be an URL:

https://stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/

This made laugh harder than it should've. I was learning Hard Skool on drums over the weekend note-for-note and there's a couple sections that are so damn unnatural.

[Voodoochild]

15 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

This made laugh harder than it should've. I was learning Hard Skool on drums over the weekend note-for-note and there's a couple sections that are so damn unnatural.

Is there any part you'd like to point out? I'm not a drummer, but I've been trying to learn a bit more about it (without having any means to actually play it) for music production purposes. 

[bmus1]

13 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Is there any part you'd like to point out? I'm not a drummer, but I've been trying to learn a bit more about it (without having any means to actually play it) for music production purposes. 

The drums aren't wrong as much as they feel incomplete when you try to play them note-for-note. From 0:14 to 0:18 there's the missing kick drum under the sudden switch to the cymbal and a swung snare hit followed by a heavy handed snare roll, all together in a row. Live, Frank doesn't switch to the cymbal and plays a more natural sounding fill to transition into the verse. 2:01 to 2:24 also sticks out to me as something a real drummer wouldn't play based on how little it grooves, and how little interplay there is between the kick drum and bass guitar. But re-watching the live version made me realize Frank plays it way closer to the original than I thought.

Still though, Frank adds ghosted snare notes and extra kick hits across the whole song, which goes back to the incomplete drum part idea.

(time stamps are referencing the studio version btw)

[Voodoochild]

57 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

The drums aren't wrong as much as they feel incomplete when you try to play them note-for-note. From 0:14 to 0:18 there's the missing kick drum under the sudden switch to the cymbal and a swung snare hit followed by a heavy handed snare roll, all together in a row. Live, Frank doesn't switch to the cymbal and plays a more natural sounding fill to transition into the verse. 2:01 to 2:24 also sticks out to me as something a real drummer wouldn't play based on how little it grooves, and how little interplay there is between the kick drum and bass guitar. But re-watching the live version made me realize Frank plays it way closer to the original than I thought.

Still though, Frank adds ghosted snare notes and extra kick hits across the whole song, which goes back to the incomplete drum part idea.

(time stamps are referencing the studio version btw)

Thanks for sharing this info! It's really fascinating!

Maybe the lack of interplay between drums and bass is only some editing fuck up? Arguably, Duff recorded his parts after the drum track, but maybe he played following a different version/arrangement. 

My theory is that this was a heavily edited combination of real drums, samples and fake drums put together by Caram and Axl for some reason. 

Edited March 12 by Voodoochild

[bmus1]

13 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Thanks for sharing this info! It's really fascinating!

Maybe the lack of interplay between drums and bass is only some editing fuck up? Arguably, Duff recorded his parts after the drum track, but maybe he played following a different version/arrangement. 

My theory is that this was a heavily edited combination of real drums, samples and fake drums put together by Caram and Axl for some reason. 

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

[DTV88]

1 hour ago, bmus1 said:

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

It’s fascinating to read these details. I have zero experience with garage band or pro tools or any of that sort, so to read where parts have been reused or where there is a potentially missing drum part helps me to understand why the CD leftovers sound so weird. Like the Hey Hey part being lifted from State Of Grace. 
 

I understand this is a legitimate way of producing music and it’s more common now than ever. It just feels so inorganic and forced if that makes sense. 

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, bmus1 said:

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

Thanks. I agree with you, but I doubt Melissa had anything to do with it. I think it's way more plausible to be Caram and Axl.

36 minutes ago, DTV88 said:

It’s fascinating to read these details. I have zero experience with garage band or pro tools or any of that sort, so to read where parts have been reused or where there is a potentially missing drum part helps me to understand why the CD leftovers sound so weird. Like the Hey Hey part being lifted from State Of Grace. 
 

I understand this is a legitimate way of producing music and it’s more common now than ever. It just feels so inorganic and forced if that makes sense. 

Everybody does this on pro tools. The secret is to not make it sounding like it. Kinda like movie CGI  

[CAFC Nick]

Has anyone turned the General artwork into a phone wallpaper yet? Annoyingly I lack the skills to do this on photoshop without it being super warped...

[GNRRHCP98]

Fully realizing now that “The General” is SO much better live… the Hollywood Bowl debut of it was EPIC, I think the song works best when the brilliantly done orchestration is prominent (unfortunately it seems “buried” to me in the studio version) and you can actually see the band all in and engaged (ESPECIALLY Slash.)
 

I wouldn’t mind the live version from that gig dropping officially, kind of like how “ABSURD” live was the B-side for the “Hard Skool” 7-inch.

Edited May 18 by GNRRHCP98

[colonizedmind]

When will the next club membership annual be announced with whatever gift they're doing this year? Maybe an EP of all tracks so far and a few live cuts?  Since they're off the road until '27....gotta be something to tide over the diehard....

[General2112]

13 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

When will the next club membership annual be announced with whatever gift they're doing this year? Maybe an EP of all tracks so far and a few live cuts?  Since they're off the road until '27....gotta be something to tide over the diehard....

Wondering the same thing. I believe last year they were already shipping them out at this point. 

[colonizedmind]

17 minutes ago, General2112 said:

Wondering the same thing. I believe last year they were already shipping them out at this point. 

Yea...that's my memory too....that was the live tracks from London right? They had all those shows mixed for the UYI SDE that went unused, so we got that....this year hoping for new studio stuff or an EP of the 4 plus Monsters and something else. Or the 4 on one side and 4 live cuts from the 2023 tour on the B side. That would be a good gift.

(Somewhat realistic hope. Obviously I'd wish for something more unreleased if I thought that was likely...)

*G*

HS (mix fixed)

The General 

Absurd (mix fixed for LP release) 

Perhaps

*R*

Anything Goes (2023)

Bad Obsession (2023)

Pretty Tied Up (2023)

Reckless Life (2023)

Would any one buy this for 15 bucks? 

(Switch out for Twat Madrid maybe)

 

Edited May 21 by colonizedmind

[Sweersa]

If the 4 singles (and any additional) are ever officially released together, whether on an album or some compilation, I hope they remix or at least master them so they don't sound jarring transitioning from one to the other. Perhaps and The General on CD do not sound good together. Perhaps that is why they didn't get a wider physical medial release like Hard Skool / Absurd, though those two also don't mesh well. 

[colonizedmind]

43 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

If the 4 singles (and any additional) are ever officially released together, whether on an album or some compilation, I hope they remix or at least master them so they don't sound jarring transitioning from one to the other. Perhaps and The General on CD do not sound good together. Perhaps that is why they didn't get a wider physical medial release like Hard Skool / Absurd, though those two also don't mesh well. 

What do you think of my somewhat "realistic" EP idea above? I mean they've done a semblance of that before, so not out of the question ...of course I'd love a new LP soon and all the rest but trying to be real. They could do something like that for the fanclub because they did so a bunch of iterations for HS and Absurd that thus far hasn't been milked as much for General/Perhaps 

[General2112]

1 hour ago, colonizedmind said:

What do you think of my somewhat "realistic" EP idea above? I mean they've done a semblance of that before, so not out of the question ...of course I'd love a new LP soon and all the rest but trying to be real. They could do something like that for the fanclub because they did so a bunch of iterations for HS and Absurd that thus far hasn't been milked as much for General/Perhaps 

I would definitely buy that EP 

[Sweersa]

On 5/21/2024 at 10:40 AM, colonizedmind said:

What do you think of my somewhat "realistic" EP idea above? I mean they've done a semblance of that before, so not out of the question ...of course I'd love a new LP soon and all the rest but trying to be real. They could do something like that for the fanclub because they did so a bunch of iterations for HS and Absurd that thus far hasn't been milked as much for General/Perhaps 

I’d buy it. I’d be more inclined to buy it if it had at least one additional “new” song, even if it’s Monsters or Atlas. But I’d probably buy three copies of what you propose. 😂 

Edited May 24 by Sweersa

[colonizedmind]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

I’d buy it. I’d be more inclined to buy it if it had at least one additional “new” song, even if it’s Monsters or Atlas. But I’d probably buy three copies or what you propose. 😂 

Right, I'll get on to the record plant right away! Two sales 😸

[GoBucky]

16 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

When will the next club membership annual be announced with whatever gift they're doing this year? Maybe an EP of all tracks so far and a few live cuts?  Since they're off the road until '27....gotta be something to tide over the diehard....

Has someone mentioned that they're going to be off the road that long? 

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, GoBucky said:

Has someone mentioned that they're going to be off the road that long? 

If you read between the lines enough you can deduce that, but plans could change, a few festivals shows here or there wouldn't surprise me....but Slash is talking about a lot of solo plans for next 2 years, so makes sense...

[gavgnr]

@evader did you remaster The General and Monsters bud? Send me a DM please if you did

[colonizedmind]

Are we any the wiser on how TF this leaked?  Record plant (initial mix) employee snagged a copy at the desk....it's not an LP rip, one would imagine...but who knows, I'm so intrigued....shame we very rarely get the story behind WHY something just appears randomly one day in the wild west of the internet. If it wasn't for legality fears, many more would sing their notoriety like canaries....

[gavgnr]

6 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

Are we any the wiser on how TF this leaked?  Record plant (initial mix) employee snagged a copy at the desk....it's not an LP rip, one would imagine...but who knows, I'm so intrigued....shame we very rarely get the story behind WHY something just appears randomly one day in the wild west of the internet. If it wasn't for legality fears, many more would sing their notoriety like canaries....

I still think it was someone within GnR’s inner circle, purely to avoid backlash for 2 reasons:

1. The perhaps/general single was delayed on the scheduled release day

2. The song we thought was the General was in fact Monsters. Fans would have blown their shitter waiting all that time for a song which sounds nothing like they’d imagined 

[lunastar]

10 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

Are we any the wiser on how TF this leaked?  Record plant (initial mix) employee snagged a copy at the desk....it's not an LP rip, one would imagine...but who knows, I'm so intrigued....shame we very rarely get the story behind WHY something just appears randomly one day in the wild west of the internet. If it wasn't for legality fears, many more would sing their notoriety like canaries....

 It seems to me that fans and Axl have a different understanding and attitude to leaks. I think Axl liked this leak game, like as a marketing tool to give importance to the release of the song. Axl Rose and the band both did it

Edited May 24 by lunastar

[colonizedmind]

2 hours ago, lunastar said:

 It seems to me that fans and Axl have a different understanding and attitude to leaks. I think Axl liked this leak game, like as a marketing tool to give importance to the release of the song. Axl Rose and the band both leaked.

If Axl was leaking himself, wouldn't the record company have sued him for loss of revenue...not like he was masking his IP if him 🤪

[vloors]

4 hours ago, lunastar said:

 It seems to me that fans and Axl have a different understanding and attitude to leaks. I think Axl liked this leak game, like as a marketing tool to give importance to the release of the song. Axl Rose and the band both did it

You dont obviously know team brazils and axls reaction to the locker leaks last time.

 Go ask Rick or google it.