Rare Axl pics Stephen and Sharon Bailey

[HollyWoodRose84]

On 1/6/2024 at 6:27 AM, Karice said:

My God even when Axl was a 5 year old you could see the tension in Axl's Stepfather Stephen's face.  Axl looks HAPPY 😁  but Stephen looks uncomfortable, unhappy and confused like,"WHY is this random kid I don't know hugging me? Get this random kid I don't know away from me!" 🥶Axl looks like he's hugging his FATHER😁, Stephen looks like Axl is a complete Stranger to him. What a disturbing picture on Stephen's side. 🥶

[ZoSoRose]

46 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

It shouldn't exist at all! A thread dedicated to talk about abuse suffered by a stranger? What the fuck. Fans can get way too weird at times.

And that's not necessarily directed at you, either, more the idea in general. Pics were shared, cool, whatever, but now it's a whodunit about abuse suffered by a guy none of us actually know. Oh dear

Yup

[Ratam]

14 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I quickly went through what I have written about this earlier: (14) 13. JULY-NOVEMBER 1991: USE YOUR ILLUSIONS ARE OUT, SO IS IZZY (a-4-d.com)

I can't see Axl accusing his stepfather of sexually abusing him. He accuses him of sexually abusing his half-sister (Amy) and of beating himself, and he speaks of a sexually repressed and religiously extreme childhood and a mother that didn't intervene or protect him - but not that his stepfather sexually abused him.

He does claim that his biological father sexually abused him when he was 2, though. Personally I doubt how much one can remember from that age. Many of these memories also came out of "regression therapy" which is scientific nonsense.

Still, there is no doubt Axl was abused as a child and grew up under terrible circumstances. I just don't see him accusing his stepfather for sexually abusing him and I am wary about accepting memories that result from regression therapy.

On this topic, it is my personal opinion that Axl's second trauma stemming from the abuse he experienced as a child came when he opened up about this to the media in 1991-1992, likely in the hope of getting some understanding and sympathy from a media that was becoming increasingly hostile towards him, but if backfired.

Agree about "regression theraphy"  is an trickster thing. Sadly naive people fall in it pseud-science.

[Blackstar]

The thread is supposed to be about some pictures that many fans have not seen before (although they were shared again recently) and would be curious about. However, pictures are not just "pictures" when there are stories on record involving the people depicted in them. A picture of Axl's stepfather can't be treated just as a rare and "cool" family picture as it inevitably will bring up the story involving him (just like a picture of Axl with Erin Everly, for example, will bring up the story of that relationship).

This is definitely a very sensitive subject and there's a fine line that can easily be crossed.

On one hand, abuse in various forms has been part of the history of GN'R and its members - because, even though they are not directly related to the music, they have affected the course of this band. Axl has been on record about being abused as a child. The subject of regression therapy was brought up in his interviews, he was confronted with it and gave his own answers about how he thought it worked for him. There have also been stories and allegations of abuse against Axl and other members of the band. These are all allegations made on public record by real people, not rumours based on anonymous sources.  I think that merely mentioning or reminding what has been on record (in this case: what Axl, Beta, Tom Zutaut etc. have said) doesn't cross the line.

On the other hand, touching upon these subjects on a message board even by just mentioning them is a slippery slope and the line is crossed when it triggers off comments that go down the rumour mill, make wild guess about sensational and morbid details, play armchair psychologist/psychiatrist making judgements about the "correct"/"expected" behavioral patterns or "diagnosing" people they don't know, etc.

But it's also unavoidable that allegations of this nature raise questions and give rise to discussion, just like it has happened with the allegations against Axl with the Sheila Kennedy case being the most recent example. There we analyzed every word she said, raised questions... Sure, maybe it's not as extremely sensitive as a child abuse case and there's a lawsuit, so the discussion was as well related to how it may play out in court, but it's still an allegation of abuse and we still speculated about what really happened and to what extent she's telling the truth. I think that if we think we should completely ban discussion on these subjects as inappropriate/crossing the line, we should apply that to everything.

[SoulMonster]

It's definitely a delicate subject and a topic not everyone is comfortable getting engaged in or even reading. That's fine. I think we should all try to be sensitive and careful in all discussions and basically not write anything we wouldn't be comfortable saying to the people involved. That's a rule of thumb I think many people could take to heart, especially since it is not entirely unlikely those we talk about may read this forum.

Still, talking about what has been discussed in public by the people themselves (and remember that Axl just released a song that references his abuse), and especially correcting misinformation about Axl's abuse and what has been said by him previously, is okay, in my opinion, and better than to let discussions and rumors fly rampantly.

And if we are really interested in the music of Guns N' Roses, or the band itself, it isn't disconnected from the lives of the musicians and what has happened to them and what they have gone through to form them as human beings. If I were to write a biography on Axl, as an example, it would be amiss to not discuss the circumstances of his upbringing and young life. Because what he went through shaped him as a person and his opinions and behavior later. Which is why I have also included this in the history section on A4D. Still, it must be treated respectfully and carefully.

Edited January 7 by SoulMonster

[D4NNY]

4 hours ago, Karice said:

Admins, delete this post if it is out of line, but.... All this talk of Axl's abuse in a thread that is supposed to be about happy moments in Axl's life is  weird. Shouldn't the talk about Axl's childhood abuse be a SEPARATE thread? Not in a thread in his happy family moments?I did mention Axl's childhood abuse in this thread myself but it just hit me literally one minute ago that talk about Axl's childhood abuse is actually hijacking this thread. 🤔💡

Karice don’t… 🎵🎶 

[evilfacelessturtle]

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, that's the story about being sexually abused by his biological father when he was two, which was the result of regression therapy.

But there's a separate unconfirmed story about sexual abuse from his stepfather that Axl would have been old enough to have memories of without the help of regression therapy. That other story has not been made public by Axl - Axl has accused his stepfather only of physical abuse and of sexual abuse of his sister - but by other people who said that they heard it from him.

It seems likely to me that those two people simply got "father" and "stepfather" confused.

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

It seems likely to me that those two people simply got "father" and "stepfather" confused.

It's possible in the case of one of them (Beta). In the case of Tom Zutaut, though, the specifics in the story he told are completely different from the story Axl told Rolling Stone.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

In one of the interviews, Axl said, "With the help of regression therapy I uncovered that my real dad, not my stepdad, sexually abused me."

I wonder if what he meant was that he had previously thought that it was his stepdad who sexually abused him (before uncovering that it was actually his real dad). Or did he just emphasize that it wasn't his stepdad because he didn't want the reader to be confused about which dad he was talking about?

[Scream of the Butterfly]

On 1/7/2024 at 5:45 PM, Avillart said:

No, he actually started the therapy after having memory flashes and the feeling that it happened, resulting in overwhelming psychological stress and what others would observe as irrational behaviour. It's the deprogramming starting which is dangerous when it happens without professional guidance. It can happen when you're driving (like in his case) and other "routine" activities and it can put your life in danger. And this is how it usually starts and the reason why people decide to do regression and/or hypnotherapy. 

That's not exactly what he said. He didn't say anything about memory flashes. It was merely a thought that crossed his mind. This is the exact quote: "I suspected it about two years ago, because all of a sudden the thought crossed my mind. When it crossed my mind I had to stop the car and I just broke down crying. Such an outpouring had never come out of me."

[Avillart]

44 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

That's not exactly what he said. He didn't say anything about memory flashes. It was merely a thought that crossed his mind. This is the exact quote: "I suspected it about two years ago, because all of a sudden the thought crossed my mind. When it crossed my mind I had to stop the car and I just broke down crying. Such an outpouring had never come out of me."

 

That may be the version you know. 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

1 hour ago, Avillart said:

 

That may be the version you know. 

There's a different version?

[Avillart]

8 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

There's a different version?

 

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said what I said. 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

33 minutes ago, Avillart said:

 

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said what I said. 

Care to share it? I assumed you were referring to the same quote because you said it happened while he was driving.

Edited January 15 by Scream of the Butterfly

[LA_0013]

Looks like his mum

[Ratam]

6 hours ago, LA_0013 said:

Looks like his mum

You mean Axl?

[LA_0013]

Yeah

[meadsoap]

The source for the abuse by Axl's stepfather comes from two different sources. The first is two different interviews with Beta Lebeis (Bolsa De Mulher and O Globo), where she states that Axl's stepfather abused him sexually.

 

\-[Bolsa De Mulher](https://www.a-4-d.com/t4758-2001-01-22-bolsa-de-mulher-interview-with-beta-lebeis): >! "He left home very young. His stepfather used to beat him a lot and he even abused him sexually. This has made him timid. I’m not quite sure, but I think he left Lafayette when he was 14 or 15 years old. Now he’s 38." !<

 

 

\- [O Globo](https://www.a-4-d.com/t4741-2001-01-16-o-globo-interview-with-doug-goldstein-and-beta-lebeis): >! "...If we fight and he gets mad, I know that it doesn't mean he doesn't love me. But most people just walk away. He was raped (by his stepfather as a child), abused, beaten. He never really had a family. He sees my relationship with my children and it’s something he never had,” she says, referring to the well-known dramas in Axl's life. !<

 

The second source is the BBC documentary on GN'R called *The Most Dangerous Band In The World*. In the doc, Tom Zutaut reads back a message Axl privately sent him in 1990, which details (pretty graphically) what Axl's stepfather was doing to him and his sister.

 

Tom Zutaut quoting Axl:

 

>! "I know I've said no... but I wanna do this Rolling Stone interview and expose my stepfather for the monster he is and was. You know, he used to take me to an airforce museum and rape me in the toilets there. In the toilet stalls. You know, my mom wouldn't believe me and I used to get beaten for making up lies. I wanna use Rolling Stone because they've been bugging me to do this interview for so long, but I don't want them to put a white-wash on the story, I want it to come out as ugly and harsh as it is," because it was happening to his sister as well and he said "If even one kid reads this interview and it spares them this pain, I wanna help them." !<

Axl mentioned the Air Force Museum (Wright Brothers Museum) from the stage in Dayton, OH, in January 1992:

 Axl: *I’m gonna ask some questions, especially since we’re in the Midwest.  And you all know how that’s just one of my “favorite” places. No  offense, but if you believe that – I mean, my stepdad is from here in  Dayton and I used to come here when I was a kid. This is not a pleasant  place for me to be. But I got to realize that it doesn’t have anything  to do with you who came to see the show. I know all about the Wilbur and  Orville Wright Museum - I’ve been there too many times.*  

[Source](https://www.a-4-d.com/t1880-1992-01-13-erwin-nutter-center-dayton-usa#14197)

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, meadsoap said:

In no interview does he ever say that.

1992 RIP Magazine interview

https://www.a-4-d.com/t545-1992-09-10-11-dd-rip-i-axl

It's a strangely worded quote.

[Ratam]

6 hours ago, LA_0013 said:

Yeah

Yes, Axl is very alike his mother.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

20 hours ago, meadsoap said:

The second source is the BBC documentary on GN'R called *The Most Dangerous Band In The World*. In the doc, Tom Zutaut reads back a message Axl privately sent him in 1990, which details (pretty graphically) what Axl's stepfather was doing to him and his sister.

I just went back to check and he's not reading any message Axl sent him and there's no mention of 1990.

This is of some relevance, because if it was a message Axl sent him, and not just Zutaut going by memory of something Axl said to him decades ago, we could be more confident that those were Axl's actual words. And if it happened in 1990, before Axl started regression therapy, I suppose that would add credibility to the accusations.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I just went back to check and he's not reading any message Axl sent him and there's no mention of 1990.

This is of some relevance, because if it was a message Axl sent him, and not just Zutaut going by memory of something Axl said to him decades ago, we could be more confident that those were Axl's actual words. And if it happened in 1990, before Axl started regression therapy, I suppose that would add credibility to the accusations.

Tom Zutaut said that Axl talked to him about it during the recording of the vocals for the Illusions. That would make it somewhere between October 1990 and early 1991. I would guess it was more likely in the fall of 1990, because after that Axl would have a falling out with Tom Zutaut.

Edited January 17 by Blackstar
correction

[meadsoap]

49 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I just went back to check and he's not reading any message Axl sent him and there's no mention of 1990.

This is of some relevance, because if it was a message Axl sent him, and not just Zutaut going by memory of something Axl said to him decades ago, we could be more confident that those were Axl's actual words. And if it happened in 1990, before Axl started regression therapy, I suppose that would add credibility to the accusations.

I'm pretty sure the documentary does mention the time period, but I'll check myself.

Anyway, Axl's rant in Dayton Ohio confirms a significant aspect of Tom Zutaut's recollection of what Axl said. The Air Force museum. 

Axl started regression therapy shortly before or on the UYI tour in 1991, which is after Axl's interactions with Zutaut. So if the timeline matches, then Axl's recollections of his stepfathers abuse predates the regression therapy, unlike the recollection of his biological father.

49 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I just went back to check and he's not reading any message Axl sent him and there's no mention of 1990.

This is of some relevance, because if it was a message Axl sent him, and not just Zutaut going by memory of something Axl said to him decades ago, we could be more confident that those were Axl's actual words. And if it happened in 1990, before Axl started regression therapy, I suppose that would add credibility to the accusations.

 

Edited January 17 by meadsoap

[Blackstar]

Here is a transcription of the BBC documentary:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8169-2016-02-05-bbc-four-the-most-dangerous-band-in-the-world-the-story-of-guns-n-roses

Edited January 17 by Blackstar

[Scream of the Butterfly]

This quote is from George Chin and he's talking about the show at the Deer Creek Music Center, Indiana, in May 1991. It appears that Axl was still on good terms with his family (at least superficially) at that point in time, which is kind of surprising, even more so if he had already told Zutaut that he was going to expose his stepfather for the monster he was. I think it's more likely that the interaction with Zutaut happened at some point later that year, but who knows.

George Chin: "Indianapolis is where Axl and Izzy grew up. At this gig, Axl sent a stretch to collect his granny and family from Lafayette, to come to the gig. The driver had orders to bring back ice-cream and pizzas from this one store in Lafayette where Axl used to hang out when he was a kid, and after the show, Axl and his family had a real homely reunion. Axl's granny was an older female version of him. She knew all the words to all the Guns N' Roses songs and she sang along at the gig."