Apollo Show - Izzy & Steven Not Playing - Argue About It HERE

[Frey]

10 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I think also there is more of an element of beating Stradlin/Adler over the head to legitimise/justify the 'reunion', i.e. ''Adler is a drug addict'', ''Stradlin's guitar was turned off' (to justify their absence). It was like this when Slash was absent and balmy nugnr/Axl fans would decimate his guitar/songwriting skills. I wonder where all those people are now haha? Like people who voted for Nixon post-Watergate I suppose?

This is such a ridiculous and clichéd post.

And so far from the truth it's laughable.

Because in reality, it is exactly like @Blackstar describes here:

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know what was happening here before the reunion and how many people/Axl fans were diminishing Slash's importance, but now I don't see the description of an "Axl nutswinger"(in regards to Izzy) applying to more than five forum members. There is a bigger number of people bashing Steven, but they're not all Axl fans.

There's one (1) Fortus fan (who may be a troll or not) who says how much Fortus is better than Izzy etc and 2-3 others saying Izzy couldn't play guitar, his guitar was turned off etc; and people react like it's an army of "Axl nutswingers".  Sometimes I think that people like to have ghosts to fight against...

There are also some who try to justify Izzy's absence by playing the "he quit the partnership" and "he doesn't like to tour" cards, but without disregarding Izzy's contributions. Some more are happy with the current lineup and don't care about Izzy not being there, but they don't talk negatively about him at all. And many others who like Izzy.

Without wanting to call out anyone here, the number of people on this forum who could be called "Axl nutswingers" really can be counted on one hand.

Hardly a relevant number and hardly the huge army of people that so many other people here (usually the ones who hate this reunion and/or Axl, or the ones who have a hard-on for Izzy or Steven) like to pretend exists to justify their opinions.

As for Slash, I used to lurk around here sometimes back in the day, and from what I remember the situation was very similar to what it is now: A handful of people/trolls who'd regularly talk shit about Slash and praise Ashba or Bumblefoot or whoever to the high heavens and who'd call Slash's fans "Slasholes". Slasholes would regularly fight with Axholes.

But again, hardly a particularly relevant number of people and most of them trolls who have long since moved on to doing god knows what, so who gives a fuck.

The notion that anyone who'd dare to criticize Steven or Izzy (or even dislike them! *gasp*) must have done the same thing to Slash and Duff back in the day because they base their opinions on who Axl currently gets along with has got to be the dumbest idea that I regularly see pushed around in this forum.

Personally, I never talked shit about Slash or Duff even during the dark pre-reunion days (why would I talk shit about my favorite guitarrist and bassist?), and yet, I still can't say I'm very fond of Adler and don't really care all that much if he is involved in this whole reunion thing or not. Imagine that.

People here seriously need to get over these dumb Axlite/Slashole/Izzy fanatic notions and just accept that not everyone will share your opinion on the guys in the band and this reunion and they might have good and valid reasons for that, without being Axlites or Slasholes or whatever the fuck else.

 

 

 

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Frey said:

The notion that anyone who'd dare to criticize Steven or Izzy (or even dislike them! *gasp*) must have done the same thing to Slash and Duff back in the day because they base their opinions on who Axl currently gets along with has got to be the dumbest idea that I regularly see pushed around in this forum.

Listen. If another musician from a different band criticises Axl, watch the people on here go on about ''how he is a shit musician etc etc''. I think I can include that chap from Faith No More, Scot Weiland and about five million other people. Just wait until the next one comes along and you will see what I mean!

[ludurigan]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

Do you even like Illusions? 

Personally I love GnR around "Lies" and the 1st leg of Illusions (1991). To me, that feels like peak GnR.

I guess GnR is like a sports team where every generation prefers a different lineup - whichever one they grew up on. 

Great post btw.

sure, i like the illusions. i dont think there is one bad song on it! i dont like axl and slash hijacking GNR and erasing izzy's guitar or lowering the volume of izzy's guitar on the album. as if the best guitar duo ever in rock music was nothing! all because stupid fucking slash thought he could play rhythm better than izzy! what a fucking lunatic! i dont like slash and duff hiring a robotic drummer without asking what izzy thought about him (yes i know izzy takes a bit of the blame for purposedly alienating himself from the band back then but...). i dont like axl doing so many wrong decisions that eventually he alienated everyone and imploded everything until there was nothing left!

i dont like the 1992 tour. 1992 was the worst "GNR" tour ever (at the time, much worse "GNR" tours would come later hahahaha). It was a band imploding live in front of zillions of people who had no idea. ask axl how happy he was during that time. how much he was enjoying himself. it was OBVIOUS that everything was so fucking wrong with him and with the band -- specially musically. Gilby is a cool guy and a nice guitar player but he didnt had the time or the will to try and find/learn how Izzy played those songs (No one knew according to him and to slash!) So all of a sudden the entire backbone of the band sounded completely different without steven and izzy. To add insult to the injury, they had to add tracy and roberta and zig zag and all that circus and it was just abysmal, i wont even waste my time commenting that crap.

And it was not just the music. All the great things about that band were not there. I saw those guys in 1992 twice, they were 10 feet away from me, and there wasnt much left from the band i spent years watching and listening and adoring. What was left of it? Maybe Slash! Even fucked up he still played like an animal. But Axl... What the fuck happened to that guy? I am stilll baffled and I dont understand what happened. By 1992 (he actually showed signs of that in mid-1991) he started moving, sounding and looking like a fucking robot. Like a fucking malfunctioning clone of himself. Complete autopilot. Predictable. Boring. The exact opposite of who he was, who he used to be onstage. That guy, onstage, during GNR days, he seemed to have music going through him during the shows in the GNR days. It was all over by 1992. By then he became a performer or an entertainer or whatever you wanna call it. Very rarely he let loose like he used to do on GNR days. Very rarely he seemed to be "into" the songs. It was only on special occasions that he was "on", like when he played with members of Queen, Aerosmith etc.

But of course they had a tour booked and they were pros and (even with all the axl delays and nonsense etc) they had the best songs ever to tour and they just did that. They toured the planet and made millions of money and made millions of people happy. The fact that i wasnt happy about it doesnt change any of that!

[Euchre]

It is weird how Slash and Duff spent 20 years criticizing the bloated and self-indulgent nature of the UYI Tour and now have now basically repeated it....

[Frey]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Listen. If another musician from a different band criticises Axl, watch the people on here go on about ''how he is a shit musician etc etc''. I think I can include that chap from Faith No More, Scot Weiland and about five million other people. Just wait until the next one comes along and you will see what I mean!

I have seen other people criticize Axl and sometimes these people (and the fan reactions) were justified, and other times they were not. I view these things on a case by case basis. Personally, I couldn't care less if morons like Gene Simmons or the coprophiliac guy from FNM who literally leaves his excrements lying around everywhere for other people to find get "shat on" by fans (if you will excuse the pun).

Now if it's someone who actually has something relevant or intelligent to say or criticize (e.g. Chris Cornell), that's different, but in cases like the above ones...

 

 

[AncientEvil80]

3 hours ago, ludurigan said:

But Axl... What the fuck happened to that guy? I am stilll baffled and I dont understand what happened.

Eh, good question. Maybe a bit of the good ol': "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Izzy seems to agree.

[Tom-Ass]

3 hours ago, Euchre said:

It is weird how Slash and Duff spent 20 years criticizing the bloated and self-indulgent nature of the UYI Tour and now have now basically repeated it....

it's weird that Duff isn't bothered bu Synths layering over It's So Easy...

[Slosh13]

Alan Niven on Izzy "It's Izzy's band, he was the first one out there."

 

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Listen. If another musician from a different band criticises Axl, watch the people on here go on about ''how he is a shit musician etc etc''. I think I can include that chap from Faith No More, Scot Weiland and about five million other people. Just wait until the next one comes along and you will see what I mean!

This is standard die-hard fan's behaviour though, not something that characterises GnR or Axl fans in particular. Equally, in every fandom there are people who are more tolerant to/don't mind/accept criticism coming from "outside". I'd even say that, because of Axl's history and him being criticised harshly by his own fans, things here are more balanced in this regard. The latest example, I think, was Jason Newsted; some people attacked him, others didn't think he crossed a line with what he said, others said Newsted was right.

That being said, all of us, as music fans, have likes and dislikes. I don't think many people's musical preferences or opinions on musicians depend on whether said musicians have talked positively about Axl or not; many Axl fans like Metallica and Faith No More despite of what has been said by members of these bands. It's more the opposite, actually: people's stance on other musicians opinion has much to do with whether they already like these musicians/hold them in high regard. I, for example, think Gene Simmons is a creep and moreover I don't like his band; same goes, more or less, for Nikki Sixx, who said good things about Axl (other people, probably, would argue that Axl is as bad or worse than these two - I don't think so, but to each their own). Also, to me, Mike Patton's words don't have any value at all, more so since it's been revealed that it was just bullshit talk on his part and he didn't dare piss on anything

[FuriousStyles]

2 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

it's weird that Duff isn't bothered bu Synths layering over It's So Easy...

It's 1987 $500 a gig weird

Not 2017 $1,000,000 a gig weird

#FPMoney

[Sosso]

2 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

it's weird that Duff isn't bothered bu Synths layering over It's So Easy...

Don't you think that he has developed as a musician?

[Frey]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

This is standard die-hard fan's behaviour though, not something that characterises GnR or Axl fans in particular. Equally, in every fandom there are people who are more tolerant to/don't mind/accept criticism coming from "outside". I'd even say that, because of Axl's history and him being criticised harshly by his own fans, things here are more balanced in this regard. The latest example, I think, was Jason Newsted; some people attacked him, others didn't think he crossed a line with what he said, others said Newsted was right.

That being said, all of us, as music fans, have likes and dislikes. I don't think many people's musical preferences or opinions on musicians depend on whether said musicians have talked positively about Axl or not; many Axl fans like Metallica and Faith No More despite of what has been said by members of these bands. It's more the opposite, actually: people's stance on other musicians opinion has much to do with whether they already like these musicians/hold them in high regard. I, for example, think Gene Simmons is a creep and moreover I don't like his band; same goes, more or less, for Nikki Sixx, who said good things about Axl (other people, probably, would argue that Axl is as bad or worse than these two - I don't think so, but to each their own). Also, to me, Mike Patton's words don't have any value at all, more so since it's been revealed that it was just bullshit talk on his part and he didn't dare piss on anything

Exactly.

Said it much better than I could have.

 

 

[Tom-Ass]

3 hours ago, Sosso said:

Don't you think that he has developed as a musician?

Sure but what is broke, don't fix.. He is the "punk" rocker.. He never had synths layered over It's So Easy when he was in Velvet Revolver or Loaded... I am sure he doesn't love it but it isn't his decision and he has lost his integrity.

[Sosso]

1 minute ago, Tom-Ass said:

Sure but what is broke, don't fix.. He is the "punk" rocker.. He never had synths layered over It's So Easy when he was in Velvet Revolver or Loaded... I am sure he doesn't love it but it isn't his decision and he has lost his integrity.

I don't think that it has anything to do with integrity. They are adding those layers since at least 2001 and it's the desicion of the whole band to keep them or not.

[Magnus Cavalerra]

7 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

it's weird that Duff isn't bothered bu Synths layering over It's So Easy...

That electronic guitar like sounds on ISE is actually Dizzy's Hammond XK5, that is the keyboard that directly facing the audience, it's the same keyboard used by Joey Huffman from Izzy band (primary example it's used throughout Shuffle It All). Melissa playing very clean Synth layer which usually isn't captured by regular phone video on YouTube. 

[Silent Jay]

Some people never really had time to listen to Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin.

[Tucknroll]

New guy here and this is my first post ever. I've officially given up on the original 5. That was the time and it didn't happen. Am I the only one who feels like this beta lady and her family have hijacked gnr?  What makes them qualified to manage the biggest band in the world?!

[RONIN]

13 hours ago, Frey said:

This is such a ridiculous and clichéd post.

And so far from the truth it's laughable.

Because in reality, it is exactly like @Blackstar describes here:

Without wanting to call out anyone here, the number of people on this forum who could be called "Axl nutswingers" really can be counted on one hand.

Hardly a relevant number and hardly the huge army of people that so many other people here (usually the ones who hate this reunion and/or Axl, or the ones who have a hard-on for Izzy or Steven) like to pretend exists to justify their opinions.

As for Slash, I used to lurk around here sometimes back in the day, and from what I remember the situation was very similar to what it is now: A handful of people/trolls who'd regularly talk shit about Slash and praise Ashba or Bumblefoot or whoever to the high heavens and who'd call Slash's fans "Slasholes". Slasholes would regularly fight with Axholes.

But again, hardly a particularly relevant number of people and most of them trolls who have long since moved on to doing god knows what, so who gives a fuck.

The notion that anyone who'd dare to criticize Steven or Izzy (or even dislike them! *gasp*) must have done the same thing to Slash and Duff back in the day because they base their opinions on who Axl currently gets along with has got to be the dumbest idea that I regularly see pushed around in this forum.

Personally, I never talked shit about Slash or Duff even during the dark pre-reunion days (why would I talk shit about my favorite guitarrist and bassist?), and yet, I still can't say I'm very fond of Adler and don't really care all that much if he is involved in this whole reunion thing or not. Imagine that.

People here seriously need to get over these dumb Axlite/Slashole/Izzy fanatic notions and just accept that not everyone will share your opinion on the guys in the band and this reunion and they might have good and valid reasons for that, without being Axlites or Slasholes or whatever the fuck else.

 

 

 

 

 

With all due respect, I disagree. 

What you're describing is called human nature. You see this with politics all the time. Look at how quickly Trump supporters turn on former Trump allies who have fallen out of favor with him or Obama supporters who turn on politicians who dare to speak out against him. It's not outlandish to think that if you've invested time/emotions into something or someone, that you wouldn't get defensive and make outlandish arguments to support them if the opportunity arises. Why would it be crazy for a person who considers Slash's contributions as negligible to the band during the nu-guns era to not change their tune and turn on Izzy as being useless when the latter falls out of favor with their favorite member (Axl)? People do this all the time when constructing an argument in a debate - using anything and everything to justify their POV. Check out the forum archive for HTGTH if you need proof of this. 

There is a level of confirmation bias and selective filtering of information in just about every human being. Some people just take it that one step further if they are agenda driven. There's also only a handful of active posters here at any given moment. Maybe 20-30 regulars as far as I can tell in the main forum. A "handful" is a statistically relevant data point when you have such a small group of active contributors.

I was an active member on this forum back in 2003 and in my humble opinion, there were plenty of people who were disrespecting the classic members here (mostly Duff and Slash) to bring legitimacy to Axl's project. There were plenty of people (including yours truly) who were banned simply for daring to support the classic members. Around the release of Chinese Democracy, and especially when Axl was participating in live chats here, this forum began to turn into HTGTH where only Pro-Axl posts were encouraged. To claim otherwise is simply revisionist history imho.

I get your point (and even agree with you mostly). Perhaps our memories of the situation are different but I do think some of us who were around here for awhile can easily spot certain "talking points" among Axl's most ardent fans.

The one that I love most is the "Ole Beich" chestnut. 

 

[Euchre]

It was a pretty underwhelming effort for the 30th. I think back to Metallica's 30th and what a difference.....

[RONIN]

19 minutes ago, Tucknroll said:

New guy here and this is my first post ever. I've officially given up on the original 5. That was the time and it didn't happen. Am I the only one who feels like this beta lady and her family have hijacked gnr?  What makes them qualified to manage the biggest band in the world?!

Not a damn thing aside from giving Axl emotional support. Any charlatan who can do this successfully gets a seat at the table. 

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Not a damn thing aside from giving Axl emotional support. Any charlatan who can do this successfully gets a seat at the table. 

I'd say they are equally unprofessional as their boss, hence, they get along. Before them, no serious manager could deal with this guy and get something done (TB couldn't either, lol, but he feels at home with them )

[Tucknroll]

I'm also fine with Frank and Richard but I can't stand Melissa and dizzy. For some reason I hate dizzy. When he's back there slapping those bongos during jungle I picture myself slapping his head the same way!

[RONIN]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I'd say they are equally unprofessional as their boss, hence, they get along. Before them, no serious manager could deal with this guy and get something done (TB couldn't either, lol, but he feels at home with them )

Agreed. It also shows you what happens when one guy hijacks the band and sidelines the other members in the decision making process. He's no Trent Reznor when it comes to band management. That much is clear. 

It's always an ego-trip when you try to micro-manage things you don't really understand. You hire a manager to manage the band. You hire a producer to produce your album. You don't do both of those things yourself when you're a singer just because you think you know what is best for your band in all spheres of the job. Unless you're Axl of course. 

[RONIN]

8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Also, to me, Mike Patton's words don't have any value at all, more so since it's been revealed that it was just bullshit talk on his part and he didn't dare piss on anything

Okay...wait just a minute here Blackstar....

I recall the interview you're thinking of and I think it was Patton or FNM's bassist clearing up the rumor that Patton shat in Axl's juicebox and then re-sealed it before sticking it back in Axl's vending machine. That was a rumor.

AFAIK, Patton did his business with Axl's cue cards (hence, my sig).  He also poured a bottle of a fan's piss over his head and it rained down on Axl's teleprompter. 

I believe he had plans to poo all over Axl's teleprompter as well before Axl and Slash threw FNM off the tour. 

[RONIN]

12 hours ago, Frey said:

I have seen other people criticize Axl and sometimes these people (and the fan reactions) were justified, and other times they were not. I view these things on a case by case basis. Personally, I couldn't care less if morons like Gene Simmons or the coprophiliac guy from FNM who literally leaves his excrements lying around everywhere for other people to find get "shat on" by fans (if you will excuse the pun).

Now if it's someone who actually has something relevant or intelligent to say or criticize (e.g. Chris Cornell), that's different, but in cases like the above ones...

 

 

Agree to disagree here.

Patton is taking the piss (no pun intended). His style like Dave Grohl and Kurt Cobain is to mock Axl's diva antics and I find that just as valid as Chris Cornell's more dignified approach.