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Would GNR play 'Pretty Tied Up' ever again given our current political and social climate?

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I can't see why not, that freaky bondage shit is more socially acceptable now than it ever has been, look at 50 Shades and all that bullshit.  And quite frankly its down to interpretation:

'i know this chick she lives down on Melrose, she ain't satisfied without some pain', it don't say whether its feeling or inflicting.  'crack the whip cuz that bitch is just insane', again, open to interpretation but even its worst interpretations ain't so bad that it needs to be avoided playing.

Personally I think they should play OIAM, that song is class, possibly my favourite GnR song. 

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7 hours ago, action said:

if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer.

the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend.

In your opinion, which I assume is not from the POV of any of the groups "offended". 

The comparison is poor. Is like you put a gun in your hand, shot a bullet aimlessly and then say "well, I didnt want to muder anyone, that wasnt my intention".

About Axl's explanation: you seem to forget that he wanted to exclude the song from a Lies re-release. And he, Slash and Duff, didnt include it either on the AFD reissue: https://www.nme.com/news/music/slash-responds-guns-n-roses-cutting-racist-homophobic-track-appetite-one-in-a-million-2367379

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8 hours ago, action said:

if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer.

the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend.

I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I think a lack of understanding is the source of all the controversy surrounding this song in the first place.

Axl has explained the song, and I accept that explanation. the meaning of the song or the word is not racism, nor homophobia.

you do know that john lennon and mark knofler used the very same word in their song, yes?

I understand perfectly so you don't need to be sorry, what I don't understand is you trying to excuse racism and homophobia as something that is okay by making up some random and nonsensical justification for using racist and homophobic language. Are you expecting me to say it's fine that John Lennon did it or something? I think I am done with this debate as you really are making no sense at this point. 

Edited by Jw224
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2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Personally I think they should play OIAM, that song is class, possibly my favourite GnR song. 

It's one of my favorites as well but there is no way they're gonna play that tune ever again. I love the song for it's musical qualities, less for what Axl was aiming for lyrically.

I don't take offense to it but I think it was done poorly and the "radicals and racists don't point your finger at me" line was like... I think Axl's way of framing and presenting it as more than just an excuse to spread hate which I'm guessing wasn't his intention and that was his way to kinda make that clearer but I can't help but think there were, in fact, racist and homophobic opinions swirling in his brain back then and maybe he thought it was a good idea to use this song as an outlet for all his negative emotions about unfortunate experiences he was a part of. I also believe it was from his point of view after all. Was derived from personal experience.

It's problematic I think cause he generalized when what it was really about was some black guys treated him poorly and he had some shitty experiences with his father and one gay guy. It was an under developed thought process and maybe he tried to be honest and make sense of all of it. I don't think he thinks that way anymore but back then he probably did.

It shouldn't be played because it was supposed to promote honesty maybe? even when it's an ugly situation but instead it was interpreted as promoting hate and it wasn't all pure and hate free as young Axl thought it was at the time. (just speculation of course who knows what he was thinking)

I'm glad he wrote it though cause it's a great tune.

Edited by Rovim

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"Once there was this rock n' roll band
Rollin' on the streets
Time went by and it became a joke"

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Just now, Rovim said:

It's one of my favorites as well but there is no way they're gonna play that tune ever again. I love the song for it's musical qualities, less for what Axl was aiming for lyrically.

I don't take offense to it but I think it was done poorly and the "radicals and racists don't point your finger at me line" was like... I think Axl's way of framing and presenting it as more than just an excuse to spread hate which I'm guessing wasn't his intention and that was his way to kinda make that clearer but I can't help but think there were, in fact, racist and homophobic opinions swirling in his brain back then and maybe he thought it was a good idea to use this song as an outlet for all his negative emotions about unfortunate experiences he was a part of. I also believe it was from his point of view after all. Was derived from personal experience.

It's problematic I think cause he generalized when what it was really about was some black guys treated him poorly and he had some shitty experiences with his father and one gay guy. It was an under developed thought process and maybe he tried to be honest and make sense of all of it. I don't think he thinks that way anymore but back then he probably did.

It shouldn't be played because it was supposed to promote honesty maybe? even when it's an ugly situation but instead it was interpreted as promoting hate and it wasn't all pure and hate free as young Axl thought it was at the time. (just speculation of course who knows what he was thinking)

I'm glad he wrote though cause it's a great tune.

My position about it is is something I've oft-repeated, I think he meant every word of it, I just hate the apologetic cop out way that he responded to it the furore, when he could've just said 'thats the way I felt and who I was then, it is what it is and I stand by it by virtue of it being the truth', I'd respect him more for that than all the 'well NWA do it!', 'i don't mind immigrants who come to better themselves, its the ones who blah blah blah that annoy me' or the various reasons he gave for the gay bit.  The worst thing about his apologetic explanations is that they kinda made things worse :lol:

But as a tune I think its brilliant, its raw, its a touchy subject dealt with in a straightforward and honest way.  Its the reality of life, life is fuckin' ugly, the truth is a lot of non-black people use the word n!gger in their spare time or privately or maybe even just in their head.  Same goes for f@ggot or finding immigrants annoying, Jesus, it ain't difficult to find instances of the last thing...but we're not supposed to talk about it because...what exactly?  Fuck that shit, respect to Axl for laying it all out there on the table, warts and all, right or wrong, thats true and proper emotion and not all emotions are beautiful or about flowers or rainbows, some of them are kneejerk, ill-concieved, offensive, poorly thought out or just plain wrong.  But its all part of the human experience and we'd live in a very beige world if we were to beat all of that down with the censorship stick. 

But I agree, it'll never get played again.  But if there's anything in me left that respects Axl its the fact that he did have that fuckin' thing in him once upon a time where he was just this fuckin' renegade spirit that really didn't fall in line for all the tumult it brought about in his life.  He may be an absolute cockstain of a person (or may not) but that I admire in people, in much the way I admire the way he, I can't remember the fuckin' gig now but it was in between one of those rants about his parents or family where he was like I don't wanna be this 'wahey, cocaine and rock n roll etc etc' type person cuz its bullshit.  He was never really the out and out redneck, he was also the f@ggot make up wearing glam rocker just as much as he was the fuckin'...artist whoose ambition far exceeded his grasp and...yeah, there's a lot of well placed contradictions there.  Shows there's a person there. 

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29 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

My position about it is is something I've oft-repeated, I think he meant every word of it, I just hate the apologetic cop out way that he responded to it the furore, when he could've just said 'thats the way I felt and who I was then, it is what it is and I stand by it by virtue of it being the truth', I'd respect him more for that than all the 'well NWA do it!', 'i don't mind immigrants who come to better themselves, its the ones who blah blah blah that annoy me' or the various reasons he gave for the gay bit.  The worst thing about his apologetic explanations is that they kinda made things worse :lol:

But as a tune I think its brilliant, its raw, its a touchy subject dealt with in a straightforward and honest way.  Its the reality of life, life is fuckin' ugly, the truth is a lot of non-black people use the word n!gger in their spare time or privately or maybe even just in their head.  Same goes for f@ggot or finding immigrants annoying, Jesus, it ain't difficult to find instances of the last thing...but we're not supposed to talk about it because...what exactly?  Fuck that shit, respect to Axl for laying it all out there on the table, warts and all, right or wrong, thats true and proper emotion and not all emotions are beautiful or about flowers or rainbows, some of them are kneejerk, ill-concieved, offensive, poorly thought out or just plain wrong.  But its all part of the human experience and we'd live in a very beige world if we were to beat all of that down with the censorship stick. 

But I agree, it'll never get played again.  But if there's anything in me left that respects Axl its the fact that he did have that fuckin' thing in him once upon a time where he was just this fuckin' renegade spirit that really didn't fall in line for all the tumult it brought about in his life.  He may be an absolute cockstain of a person (or may not) but that I admire in people, in much the way I admire the way he, I can't remember the fuckin' gig now but it was in between one of those rants about his parents or family where he was like I don't wanna be this 'wahey, cocaine and rock n roll etc etc' type person cuz its bullshit.  He was never really the out and out redneck, he was also the f@ggot make up wearing glam rocker just as much as he was the fuckin'...artist whoose ambition far exceeded his grasp and...yeah, there's a lot of well placed contradictions there.  Shows there's a person there. 

To be totally honest with you I use the N word, I say f@ggot when I'm with friends but I'm brown and I listen to rap music so it's fine. I can do that. Plus I have a gay cousin on top of it so it's ok. But you know... the N word is used on white people that are close to me, the f@ggot thing is used exactly because it's a BAD word so it makes it funny and I know my friends will not get offended by it.

I think there's a difference though between a nobody like me and someone like Axl back then. He has the potential to affect people. I've seen it personally with OIAM and some racist cunt that made it his anthem or some shit. Yes, I respect Axl for having the balls to do that but maybe it came with a cost. Those radicals and racist cunts maybe used it in the way Axl didn't want them to.

The apology was lame as fuck, I agree. Stand behind your art. But his opinions were ignorant.

Btw, if anyone is reading this post and have a problem with me using the N word or saying f@ggot jokingly as a brown jew half Iranian blooded man can fuck right off. Peace!

Edited by Rovim
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28 minutes ago, Rovim said:

To be totally honest with you I use the N word, I say f@ggot when I'm with friends but I'm brown and I listen to rap music so it's fine. I can do that. Plus I have a gay cousin on top of it so it's ok. But you know... the N word is used on white people that are close to me, the f@ggot thing is used exactly because it's a BAD word so it makes it funny and I know my friends will not get offended by it.

I think there's a difference though between a nobody like me and someone like Axl back then. He has the potential to affect people. I've seen it personally with OIAM and some racist cunt that made it his anthem or some shit. Yes, I respect Axl for having the balls to do that but maybe it came with a cost. Those radicals and racist cunts maybe used it in the way Axl didn't want them to.

The apology was lame as fuck, I agree. Stand behind your art. But his opinions were ignorant.

Btw, if anyone is reading this post and have a problem with me using the N word or saying f@ggot jokingly as a brown jew half Iranian blooded man can fuck right off. Peace!

I'm not sure that a word can truly be offensive or good or bad, if you break it down.  I mean they're a means of communication right?  Is the word n!gger bad simply because it has its roots in prejudice?  I don't think so because it has been used, at least by certain black people, generally Americans, as a healing thing.  I'm not sure how much I subscribe to that idea but at the same time it ain't up for me to subscribe to.  And if a word is bad, wholly and completely, then it shouldn't be used to teach people about history either?  See what I'm sayin'?  I find the entire notion strange and alien, that words can just entirely 100% offensive.  I don't use the word n!gger but I'd be lying to you if I said its a word I've never said, same for words attached to just about any other race.  F@ggot I use frequently.  Shit, I used poof enough on this forum and it means the same thing as f@ggot.  I just think its whats in your heart that matters and if you ain't got no hate in your heart words are just, y'know, use em, use em all...however the judiciousness about how and when you use em might be the difference between making it home with a broken jaw or not...but thats on you, its called social skills.  But words in and of themselves, I would never write a human being off wholesale as is popular these days just based on their use of a word...you fuckin' kike :lol:

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45 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its the reality of life, life is fuckin' ugly, the truth is a lot of non-black people use the word n!gger in their spare time or privately or maybe even just in their head.  Same goes for f@ggot or finding immigrants annoying, Jesus, it ain't difficult to find instances of the last thing...but we're not supposed to talk about it because...what exactly?  Fuck that shit

In reality of life, I call people racist and homophobic. I'm sure those words shouldnt be a problem.

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25 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

In reality of life, I call people racist and homophobic. I'm sure those words shouldnt be a problem.

If you call a person racist and/or homophobic and they're not then no, it shouldn't be a problem at all unless said person chooses to get offended. Also context and intent are a part of the equation and it is known that if you like big asses and blues you can't possibly be racist.

No one should tell others how to express themselves as long as they don't mean to offend and like Len said have basic social skills. The balance should be preserved between respect and freedom of expression.

Not everything should be taken seriously. Some things should but you gotta be able to communicate who you are with others and that means doing it with your style of delivery while feeling comfortable enough to laugh about basically anything and everything as long as you can kinda evaluate what doesn't fit a certain situation and what has the potential to connect with people by using more bite. Just like in music. Language is a tool. I decide how I use it at my own peril.

Edited by Rovim

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30 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

In reality of life, I call people racist and homophobic. I'm sure those words shouldnt be a problem.

They're not, go for it kid.  Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck.  But culturally, to a lot of people, its like a death sentence, which is more what I was pointing towards.  That and the fact that what people act like and whats really going on with them ain't always the same thing. 

Edited by Len Cnut
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3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

If you call a person racist and/or homophobic and they're not then no, it shouldn't be a problem at all unless said person chooses to get offended. Also context and intent are a part of the equation and it is known that if you like big asses and blues you can't possibly be racist.

No one should tell someone how to express themselves as long as they don't mean to offend and like Len said have basic social skills. The balance should be preserved between respect and freedom of expression.

Not everything should be taken seriously. Some things should but you gotta be able to communicate who you are with others and that means doing it with your style of delivery while feeling comfortable enough to laugh about basically anything and everything as long as you can kinda evaluate what doesn't fit a certain situation and what has the potential to connect with people through using more bite. Just like in music.

Freedom of expression isnt a free pass to say whatever you want and expect everyone to be ok with that. This is the thing. You can say whatever you want, however you want. But you may hear what you dont want to too. And there's a moral and ethic issue with it when your freedom starts to get into other people's rights (like, to be respected).

Also, should it be ok to make fun of things like that in private conversations? I dont know, I dont do that. I did in the past, not anymore. It stops being funny when you realise some things in the bigger picture. Not everything should be taken seriously, but some things should.

It's ironic though that we're talking about this in a message board where people got offended because some rich guy used the band's name without other rich guys.  

It's funny. I'm obviously in the minority here from what I can tell. And seems like people don't give two shits about who they may offend, but at the moment when someone disagree, some people try to invalidate. Its like the "SJW" expression. I'm not american and obviously English is not my 1st language, but I really struggle to understand how social justice is a bad thing and used as something to disqualify someone. Even if its all about basic human rights.

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

They're not, go for it kid.  Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck.  

Thanks, I wish I was still a kid though.   

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13 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

The song was released in 1989. It doesnt matter if that was ok in early 80s like the Dire Straits song. It was always homophobic, Axl even had to justify himself back then.

And the thing is: it doesnt matter what it was back then at all. The thing being discussed is how it would sit if the band played the song live in 2019. And let's be clear: Im only talking about One in a Million, because somehow some people here are already trying to disquilify the argument like anyone else has exactly the problem with other songs like Pretty Tied Up. 

Slash, which a lot of fans seems to forget, is half black. Frank is black. TB, which a lot of people here hate, are immigrants and considered by Axl as his family. I'm sure there's tons of gay friends and co-workers in the GNR camp. Nobody in this thread even mentioned this.

 It was then and is now very offensive, not necessary, and just plain wrong.  I won't debate it was offensive because the terms were racist/ homophobic first thus offensive or offensive because... This is like the age old debate what came first? The chicken or the egg thing.                        One IAM is offensive. See an old Izzy interview when said the  rest or some of them did not want it . They all let then crazy Axl have his way.                                                                                      The band should play it, but simply leave out those  2 lines.  Who they were then: CrazyAxl who needed therapy and meds and the rest were  seriously drugged out are who they are today as adults. Fathers . Husbands. Businrssmen. Drug free. Mature.                                                                            Axl, so stupid, wore that killer's face on a shirt. I wont say the killer's name because he is not worth mentioning, even now finally dead and all the celebrity status he received . Axl today would not dare wear that killer's face.                                                               Time, age, thinking due to drugs and alcohol all makes a difference. The most dangerous band in the world have been very rich guys for a few decades now and now are fiflty rich, old middle aged men who live very careful,  protective lives cocooned  from certain people, places, things.                                                                              Do they have regrets of things they a3nd I mean all 5 of them ,did, wore, said, recorded, went, treated girls,  acted 30-35  years ago? Yes.  I am sure they do. They cannot change it. That is the issue I have and many of us with Duff is wants to say stuff was not so and sort of rewriting the band's past. However, as people say, it is not how  you start, but how you end up. It is how you grow as in grow older and times change in which you should be wiser. Age equals wisdom. It is suppose to anyway.  Funny sidenote, sort of off subject. Matt and Steven, Steven of all people , care about what goes in their bodies ,lol,so both men are vegetarians. So many fans love to knock Izzy, writer 1/5 of those only 4 GnR albums and hit songs, but it takes a whole lotta money to live like he does of privacy, travel whenever, wherever he wants, hobbies of  surfing, skateboarding , and his songs no one buys,lol, his Indiana farm, and whatever because of his privacy and semi- retirement at 57.                                                                               I agree with your post . Axl's bodyguard is Black too.

Edited by Amaya
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2 hours ago, Jw224 said:

I understand perfectly so you don't need to be sorry, what I don't understand is you trying to excuse racism and homophobia as something that is okay by making up some random and nonsensical justification for using racist and homophobic language. Are you expecting me to say it's fine that John Lennon did it or something? I think I am done with this debate as you really are making no sense at this point. 

I'm not excusing homopobia and racism, I'm excusing the use of those words.

you understand nothing, or you deliberately chose not to.

either way, using those two words is perfectly fine, in the context it was used. which was; an immature stab at society, with the sole intention to fake coolness while basing it on some bullshit story he went through. Innocent immaturity it is, but I like it nonetheless. I still play the song from time to time, and everything I think about how outrageously offensive it is. But never would I take it as homophobic or racist. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Freedom of expression isnt a free pass to say whatever you want and expect everyone to be ok with that. This is the thing. You can say whatever you want, however you want. But you may hear what you dont want to too. And there's a moral and ethic issue with it when your freedom starts to get into other people's rights (like, to be respected).

Also, should it be ok to make fun of things like that in private conversations? I dont know, I dont do that. I did in the past, not anymore. It stops being funny when you realise some things in the bigger picture. Not everything should be taken seriously, but some things should.

It's ironic though that we're talking about this in a message board where people got offended because some rich guy used the band's name without other rich guys.  

It's funny. I'm obviously in the minority here from what I can tell. And seems like people don't give two shits about who they may offend, but at the moment when someone disagree, some people try to invalidate. Its like the "SJW" expression. I'm not american and obviously English is not my 1st language, but I really struggle to understand how social justice is a bad thing and used as something to disqualify someone. Even if its all about basic human rights.

Social justice is a great thing but I think we, as humans, should also keep a watchful eye on the price of losing control and over compensating. I...am...not...a...robot. And with respect, I'm not you and you are not me.

There should be a basic understanding between people and that is I can have the same exact values as you, but I want to have the option to play it looser if I want to and I trust myself that I can do that effectively most of the time without hurting anyone in the process and if I do, and it happens, it's possible to explain what your intention is and maybe dial it down a bit.

But it's a dynamic thing, more of on a case by case basis. How sad and boring would it be to act the same way with every person you know when you can act more naturally by factoring who's the person or group of people you're interacting with and that way you figure out what's the right tone for it and what you can say and in what way that will represent you the most while not hurting anyone.

So it's not saying or doing whatever you want. It's being yourself as much as you can and for some people that means being less worried about the meaning other people slapped on it. So I can use a naughty word cause it's not actually naughty for me and I can do it in private with no risk of it affecting my life or others in a negative way, in a hateful way.

Edited by Rovim
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it's like with standup comedy. a sketch can be deliberately offensive as if it was racist / homophobic, for comic use, and people will laugh with it because they know it isn't meant. they laugh because it is deliberately offensive. but the moment the audience should realise it is really meant in a racist way, the laughing would stop and you'd hear a cricket chirp in the room

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OIAM is a hard one. They’ve justified and explained the song through the years and still defend its existence - Duff talked about it on the RS podcast. I don’t think any of them are racists or homophobic and I guess when Axl wrote the lyrics he had some anger towards some people because of his personal experiences, so it seems that he had some mixed feelings and did not express himself in the best way.

The lyrics are well written because he’s a great lyricist, but I definitely don’t think it’s a cool one. It has so much space for interpretation and it often puts the wrong message out there, even if it is sung by a character as they’ve stated in the past. I don’t think it has any space in the world we live in today - not that it had once, but the boundaries were very different.

The music was controversial back then and surely is even more now. They are very different people these days, Slash has said recently that he’s ashamed of some of his interviews from the past, which is great because they were not the most intelligent, sensitive or mature people back then, so I’m sure they would do it in a different way today.

Regarding the use of specific words, for me it’s very simple: besides the fact that private conversations are not made for public consumption, doesn’t matter what it’s about, if any word is offensive for someone or some community, I won’t use it, not because I’m trying to be politically correct, but because why should I? For me It’s like saying “thank you”, that’s what you do in life, you just treat people with respect.

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2 hours ago, Rovim said:

Social justice is a great thing but I think we, as humans, should also keep a watchful eye on the price of losing control and over compensating. I...am...not...a...robot. And with respect, I'm not you and you are not me.

There should be a basic understanding between people and that is I can have the same exact values as you, but I want to have the option to play it looser if I want to and I trust myself that I can do that effectively most of the time without hurting anyone in the process and if I do, and it happens, it's possible to explain what your intention is and maybe dial it down a bit.

But it's a dynamic thing, more of on a case by case basis. How sad and boring would it be to act the same way with every person you know when you can act more naturally by factoring who's the person or group of people you're interacting with and that way you figure out what's the right tone for it and what you can say and in what way that will represent you the most while not hurting anyone.

So it's not saying or doing whatever you want. It's being yourself as much as you can and for some people that means being less worried about the meaning other people slapped on it. So I can use a naughty word cause it's not actually naughty for me and I can do it in private with no risk of it affecting my life or others in a negative way, in a hateful way.

All I'm saying is that sometimes, you should be worried about the meaning to other people. And I really dont know how can this be such a hard thing to do. It's also not about acting the same way with every person, but treat everyone as an equal.

 

1 hour ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

OIAM is a hard one. They’ve justified and explained the song through the years and still defend its existence - Duff talked about it on the RS podcast. I don’t think any of them are racists or homophobic and I guess when Axl wrote the lyrics he had some anger towards some people because of his personal experiences, so it seems that he had some mixed feelings and did not express himself in the best way.

The lyrics are well written because he’s a great lyricist, but I definitely don’t think it’s a cool one. It has so much space for interpretation and it often puts the wrong message out there, even if it is sung by a character as they’ve stated in the past. I don’t think it has any space in the world we live in today - not that it had once, but the boundaries were very different.

The music was controversial back then and surely is even more now. They are very different people these days, Slash has said recently that he’s ashamed of some of his interviews from the past, which is great because they were not the most intelligent, sensitive or mature people back then, so I’m sure they would do it in a different way today.

Regarding the use of specific words, for me it’s very simple: besides the fact that private conversations are not made for public consumption, doesn’t matter what it’s about, if any word is offensive for someone or some community, I won’t use it, not because I’m trying to be politically correct, but because why should I? For me It’s like saying “thank you”, that’s what you do in life, you just treat people with respect.

I keep saying this, but very often you say exactly what I wanted to say but way better. For the most part anyways - I'm not so sure about Axl's intention back then. IMO, he wanted to be controversial and edgy for the sake of it because he felt like honoring the brand "the most dangerous band in the world". 

 

By the way, I absolutely love the instrumental piece in OIAM. I love Izzy's crunchy guitar low in the mix against the accoustic. And Slash's solo is the best accoustic one I've ever heard from him. I even recorded and posted it the other day. 

 

1 hour ago, Tyler Drama said:

This thread sucks man.

Oh, I'm sorry you are forced to read through every single post here in the only thread dealing about this in a sea of setlist/Axl's voice/Axl's weight complaints.

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6 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I keep saying this, but very often you say exactly what I wanted to say but way better. For the most part anyways - I'm not so sure about Axl's intention back then. IMO, he wanted to be controversial and edgy for the sake of it because he felt like honoring the brand "the most dangerous band in the world". 

By the way, I absolutely love the instrumental piece in OIAM. I love Izzy's crunchy guitar low in the mix against the accoustic. And Slash's solo is the best accoustic one I've ever heard from him. I even recorded and posted it the other day. 

Thanks! After so many years of GNR debates, you become a lecturer 😊

Well it’s possible that he wanted to just make an impact, be outrageous. I’m VERY critical of Axl’s behavior, but from everything I’ve heard and read about him, my perception is that he never was a racist, homophobic, whatever, but someone with a lot of anger inside of him, so maybe that stuff sometimes would manifest in a wrong way. I don’t know, I’m just speculating.

I wish they would play an acoustic set, just for one show, to change things up a little bit like the old days.

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I remember Slash saying he didn’t like the acoustic set during the 93 leg of UYI because it killed the energy.

But then they did it in VR during the Libertad tour so who knows.

Edited by Ant

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44 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Oh, I'm sorry you are forced to read through every single post here in the only thread dealing about this in a sea of setlist/Axl's voice/Axl's weight complaints.

Apology accepted.

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3 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Freedom of expression isnt a free pass to say whatever you want and expect everyone to be ok with that. This is the thing. You can say whatever you want, however you want. But you may hear what you dont want to too. And there's a moral and ethic issue with it when your freedom starts to get into other people's rights (like, to be respected).

Also, should it be ok to make fun of things like that in private conversations? I dont know, I dont do that. I did in the past, not anymore. It stops being funny when you realise some things in the bigger picture. Not everything should be taken seriously, but some things should.

It's ironic though that we're talking about this in a message board where people got offended because some rich guy used the band's name without other rich guys.  

It's funny. I'm obviously in the minority here from what I can tell. And seems like people don't give two shits about who they may offend, but at the moment when someone disagree, some people try to invalidate. Its like the "SJW" expression. I'm not american and obviously English is not my 1st language, but I really struggle to understand how social justice is a bad thing and used as something to disqualify someone. Even if its all about basic human rights.

Thanks, I wish I was still a kid though.   

SJW types are not about social justice they are about themselves. The kind of people with not a single original thought swirling around in their head who see the glory and reputation of genuine warriors for social justice like Dr King or feminists(proper ones from the past who had integrity and weren't just redundant, entitled crybabies) and think to themselves "Right on. I'll have some of that attention." With no cause or content of character.

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3 hours ago, ChildOfTheMoon said:

Thanks! After so many years of GNR debates, you become a lecturer 😊

Well it’s possible that he wanted to just make an impact, be outrageous. I’m VERY critical of Axl’s behavior, but from everything I’ve heard and read about him, my perception is that he never was a racist, homophobic, whatever, but someone with a lot of anger inside of him, so maybe that stuff sometimes would manifest in a wrong way. I don’t know, I’m just speculating.

I wish they would play an acoustic set, just for one show, to change things up a little bit like the old days.

Maybe, but if people are leaving the concert just after SCOM, I don't think it would sit well with the casual audience.

But they def should play some surprise accoustic gigs again. The 2006 ones got a lot of buzz. 

 

3 hours ago, Tyler Drama said:

Apology accepted.

Thank you. Hope this notification reaches you well.

 

3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

SJW types are not about social justice they are about themselves. The kind of people with not a single original thought swirling around in their head who see the glory and reputation of genuine warriors for social justice like Dr King or feminists(proper ones from the past who had integrity and weren't just redundant, entitled crybabies) and think to themselves "Right on. I'll have some of that attention." With no cause or content of character.

Not sure what Dr King is and I 100% disagree with what you said about feminists. But from what I see out there, SJW is not just used  for those kind of people. You see, I'm also a Star Wars fan. If you like the new trilogy or any Disney era movie, you are labeled as SJW. If I don't want to see the same white male type of leading hero in those kind of movies, I'm SJW. If there's just another POC side-character and I think its ok, I'm SJW. You get the idea.

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