Axl's Letter to Indonesian President

[Cosmo]

I hate it when musicians get involved in politics like this. They're, at many times, completely unqualified judge delicate, complicate politics like this and yet they feel like they can weigh in like they don't hold the responsibility of opinion forming. When Axl says the people of Indonesia deserve better, his fans all over the world will absorve that info, tend to follow his opinion and repeat the message. He has fans in indonesia. Stay the fuck out of stuff like this. You're a 53 year old nostalgia rocker who tours around the world playing songs from your golden age, not an active spokesman or a politicized public figure.

[downzy]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

[maynard]

The only problem I see in this whole thing is that the drug lords, the bosses will keep on living their great lives. Drug dealers should all be killed imo. But that should include the big guys.

[ManetsBR]

Like that guy who ran for Presidency on Brazil.

[Nosaj Thing]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

You said you asked the question as another member of the forum, and not as the admin. Why would they have to explain that to you then? As far as I know, this is the first time I'm being told that it's not allowed to post "I don't care" in a thread. How many times I have seen people doing it? Thousands. I mean, if that is the case, you're going to have an extensive work deleting and/or hiding the "I don't care" posts. Not only in D&N, but in the entire forum. Might as well want to add a new rule to the forum.

If you wanted to ask the question as the owner of the forum, that's different, and could have very well used the PM system. I don't know, I don't feel like telling you how to do things around here. It's your forum, your rules.

[downzy]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

You said you asked the question as another member of the forum, and not as the admin. Why would they have to explain that to you then? As far as I know, this is the first time I'm being told that it's not allowed to post "I don't care" in a thread. How many times I have seen people doing it? Thousands. I mean, if that is the case, you're going to have an extensive work deleting and/or hiding the "I don't care" posts. Not only in D&N, but in the entire forum. Might as well want to add a new rule to the forum.

If you wanted to ask the question as the owner of the forum, that's different, and could have very well used the PM system. I don't know, I don't feel like telling you how to do things around here. It's your forum, your rules.

Where do I say that it's not allowed? As I said, people can post whatever they want so long as it adheres to the rules. They don't have to explain anything to me so long as they're not breaking the rules. Mags was in his right to ignore my question. He chose not to and things got heated. He could have easily ignored my question. His original post is still there after all.

[axlsalinger]

The only problem I see in this whole thing is that the drug lords, the bosses will keep on living their great lives. Drug dealers should all be killed imo. But that should include the big guys.

So basically what you're saying is that Izzy should have been executed in 1985, and that GNR should never have existed?

"You know...I've been the dealer...

Hangin' on your street".

[Nosaj Thing]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

You said you asked the question as another member of the forum, and not as the admin. Why would they have to explain that to you then? As far as I know, this is the first time I'm being told that it's not allowed to post "I don't care" in a thread. How many times I have seen people doing it? Thousands. I mean, if that is the case, you're going to have an extensive work deleting and/or hiding the "I don't care" posts. Not only in D&N, but in the entire forum. Might as well want to add a new rule to the forum.

If you wanted to ask the question as the owner of the forum, that's different, and could have very well used the PM system. I don't know, I don't feel like telling you how to do things around here. It's your forum, your rules.

Where do I say that it's not allowed? As I said, people can post whatever they want so long as it adheres to the rules. They don't have to explain anything to me so long as they're not breaking the rules. Mags was in his right to ignore my question. He chose not to and things got heated. He could have easily ignored my question. His original post is still there after all.

So, it's allowed and it's not breaking any rules, but if people only want to post that, then they should stay away from the thread and not post anything? Really, that makes no sense to me.

[downzy]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

You said you asked the question as another member of the forum, and not as the admin. Why would they have to explain that to you then? As far as I know, this is the first time I'm being told that it's not allowed to post "I don't care" in a thread. How many times I have seen people doing it? Thousands. I mean, if that is the case, you're going to have an extensive work deleting and/or hiding the "I don't care" posts. Not only in D&N, but in the entire forum. Might as well want to add a new rule to the forum.

If you wanted to ask the question as the owner of the forum, that's different, and could have very well used the PM system. I don't know, I don't feel like telling you how to do things around here. It's your forum, your rules.

Where do I say that it's not allowed? As I said, people can post whatever they want so long as it adheres to the rules. They don't have to explain anything to me so long as they're not breaking the rules. Mags was in his right to ignore my question. He chose not to and things got heated. He could have easily ignored my question. His original post is still there after all.

So, it's allowed but if people only want to post that, they should stay away from the thread and not post anything? Really, that makes no sense to me.

They're allowed so long as it's not their standard response to most topics. Then it borders on spamming/trolling, which is a violation of the rules and their posts would be removed.

Single instances are fine, but they should expect others to call them on it. If you don't find something interesting, why mention it? If you feel the need to mention how uninterested you are, be prepared to have others call you on it for self-aggrandizing. Because what other reason is there for it?

NT, if you want to continue this conversation, please send me a PM. But I think at this point I've thoroughly explained myself.

[rock4eva]

I am so sad despite always being for capital punishment but for murder, not drug smuggling.

So, since when does Indonesia have the death penalty for drug smuggling? And, since when did you start caring about people being executed in that country?

I don't know how long I would have to look that up. Since when did I care? Well when Barlow and Chambers were executed in Malaysia I was all for the death penalty yet I felt bad the night before and the next morning when I saw it was over. I felt bad all day despite being for the death penalty, that I cannot explain as when you're for the death penalty you are very very passionate as I was.

I've cared about execution in Indonesia since the 5 Australian journalists covering Timor were killed in 1975 (don't go working out my age now ) - one was a colleague of my Dad. Both ours and Indonesian governments did nothing to find who did it & charge them & I was angry that innocent lives were taken that day doing their job which wasn't a criminal offence.

I think my mindset changed after the death of my first child, knowing that every life lost leaves a grieving Mum behind. I cared when Van Tuong Nguyen was hanged in Singapore in the morning our time as I'd watched the visits to jail of his Mum and brother. I cared last night for the same reason, and because they had changed their lives around. If it was done when they were first sentenced maybe I wouldn't have had time to worry. After 10yrs of watching them you get to know them, see what they're doing in jail and the changes made over time. I care because the Indonesian government killed 202 people in a Bali nightclub and they got off - 2 executed but the rest free to do it all again in 2005.

We give so much aid to Indonesia, even built a hospital for them so they could have up to date facilities for their people. We gave $605.3 million in the 2014/2015 budget to them, created the Australia-Bali Eye Centre to help combat blindness in around 50.000 people, helped build schools in remote and poorest areas to provide education need I go on?

In return we get bombed in 2002, 2004 and 2005. They stuck their finger up at us & refused to at least keep these men in jail for life to keep on assisting their own people. Those prisoners and their families will now get nothing. They were asked in respect of Australia to not make the announcement on Anzac Day which is a special day for Australia so what did they do?

Yes I'm angry, yes I care & that is only my opinion. I don't expect you to agree, if you think the right thing was done it doesn't matter to me.

I'm having a sad day for more than just these executions but for a personal reason too. I don't doubt for one minute we will be in this position again in a few years because people are stupid and make mistakes.

[riot]

I don't know. I really can't be bothered with another self-important celebrity having yet another pet political issue. "Shut up and sing" has never been more appropriate imo.

Why should he? Lots of things working wrong already!so why the fuck should he fuck off?

[Nosaj Thing]

Again, so when someone says "I don't care about Axl has to say," are they criticizing Axl and his band? What position are they doing to defend themselves from? Not giving a shit?

I don't agree with people saying that "Axl should shut the fuck up and release new music," but I don't get nor find the problem with those who simply don't care about it.

If they don't care about it, then what are they doing posting about it? Taking up space? Wasting people's time? What point does it serve? Do they consider themselves so important that they think most need to know how little they care? I'm not saying that making that point in and of itself is a form of criticizing Axl, but Mags' post did a little more than that.

You said you asked the question as another member of the forum, and not as the admin. Why would they have to explain that to you then? As far as I know, this is the first time I'm being told that it's not allowed to post "I don't care" in a thread. How many times I have seen people doing it? Thousands. I mean, if that is the case, you're going to have an extensive work deleting and/or hiding the "I don't care" posts. Not only in D&N, but in the entire forum. Might as well want to add a new rule to the forum.

If you wanted to ask the question as the owner of the forum, that's different, and could have very well used the PM system. I don't know, I don't feel like telling you how to do things around here. It's your forum, your rules.

Where do I say that it's not allowed? As I said, people can post whatever they want so long as it adheres to the rules. They don't have to explain anything to me so long as they're not breaking the rules. Mags was in his right to ignore my question. He chose not to and things got heated. He could have easily ignored my question. His original post is still there after all.

So, it's allowed but if people only want to post that, they should stay away from the thread and not post anything? Really, that makes no sense to me.

They're allowed so long as it's not their standard response to most topics. Then it borders on spamming/trolling, which is a violation of the rules and their posts would be removed.

Single instances are fine, but they should expect others to call them on it. If you don't find something interesting, why mention it? If you feel the need to mention how uninterested you are, be prepared to have others call you on it for self-aggrandizing. Because what other reason is there for it?

NT, if you want to continue this conversation, please send me a PM. But I think at this point I've thoroughly explained myself.

Yes, you have explained yourself, it's just that in some aspects I'm having a hard time understanding your position. It's all good.

[Todo Poderoso Timão]

Why the fuck have Axl asked for clemency only for the 2 Australian guys????

There were also one brazilian guy, one Indonesian, and four from Nigeria.

People from rich country are worth more, in Axl's clemency?

[Nosaj Thing]

I am so sad despite always being for capital punishment but for murder, not drug smuggling.

So, since when does Indonesia have the death penalty for drug smuggling? And, since when did you start caring about people being executed in that country?

I don't know how long I would have to look that up. Since when did I care? Well when Barlow and Chambers were executed in Malaysia I was all for the death penalty yet I felt bad the night before and the next morning when I saw it was over. I felt bad all day despite being for the death penalty, that I cannot explain as when you're for the death penalty you are very very passionate as I was.

I've cared about execution in Indonesia since the 5 Australian journalists covering Timor were killed in 1975 (don't go working out my age now ) - one was a colleague of my Dad. Both ours and Indonesian governments did nothing to find who did it & charge them & I was angry that innocent lives were taken that day doing their job which wasn't a criminal offence.

I think my mindset changed after the death of my first child, knowing that every life lost leaves a grieving Mum behind. I cared when Van Tuong Nguyen was hanged in Singapore in the morning our time as I'd watched the visits to jail of his Mum and brother. I cared last night for the same reason, and because they had changed their lives around. If it was done when they were first sentenced maybe I wouldn't have had time to worry. After 10yrs of watching them you get to know them, see what they're doing in jail and the changes made over time. I care because the Indonesian government killed 202 people in a Bali nightclub and they got off - 2 executed but the rest free to do it all again in 2005.

We give so much aid to Indonesia, even built a hospital for them so they could have up to date facilities for their people. We gave $605.3 million in the 2014/2015 budget to them, created the Australia-Bali Eye Centre to help combat blindness in around 50.000 people, helped build schools in remote and poorest areas to provide education need I go on?

In return we get bombed in 2002, 2004 and 2005. They stuck their finger up at us & refused to at least keep these men in jail for life to keep on assisting their own people. Those prisoners and their families will now get nothing. They were asked in respect of Australia to not make the announcement on Anzac Day which is a special day for Australia so what did they do?

Yes I'm angry, yes I care & that is only my opinion. I don't expect you to agree, if you think the right thing was done it doesn't matter to me.

I'm having a sad day for more than just these executions but for a personal reason too. I don't doubt for one minute we will be in this position again in a few years because people are stupid and make mistakes.

Thank you very much for this post. Great knowledge on the subject, I'm very impressed. You just shut me up.

You can fight for the things you believe in and you don't have to explain to anyone why. It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that I think that it's a bit pretentious to try to question other countries laws, specially when it involves death penalties. Look, I don't want to be executed for smuggling drugs from or into Indonesia. So, what should I do? Probably never try to smuggle drugs from or into Indonesia.

I feel bad for those who were executed today, but even more so for their families and loved ones. It is, sadly, the world we live in.

[PerthGNR]

Why the fuck have Axl asked for clemency only for the 2 Australian guys????

Because we suffered through the 2013 concerts.

[rock4eva]

I am so sad despite always being for capital punishment but for murder, not drug smuggling.

So, since when does Indonesia have the death penalty for drug smuggling? And, since when did you start caring about people being executed in that country?

I don't know how long I would have to look that up. Since when did I care? Well when Barlow and Chambers were executed in Malaysia I was all for the death penalty yet I felt bad the night before and the next morning when I saw it was over. I felt bad all day despite being for the death penalty, that I cannot explain as when you're for the death penalty you are very very passionate as I was.

I've cared about execution in Indonesia since the 5 Australian journalists covering Timor were killed in 1975 (don't go working out my age now ) - one was a colleague of my Dad. Both ours and Indonesian governments did nothing to find who did it & charge them & I was angry that innocent lives were taken that day doing their job which wasn't a criminal offence.

I think my mindset changed after the death of my first child, knowing that every life lost leaves a grieving Mum behind. I cared when Van Tuong Nguyen was hanged in Singapore in the morning our time as I'd watched the visits to jail of his Mum and brother. I cared last night for the same reason, and because they had changed their lives around. If it was done when they were first sentenced maybe I wouldn't have had time to worry. After 10yrs of watching them you get to know them, see what they're doing in jail and the changes made over time. I care because the Indonesian government killed 202 people in a Bali nightclub and they got off - 2 executed but the rest free to do it all again in 2005.

We give so much aid to Indonesia, even built a hospital for them so they could have up to date facilities for their people. We gave $605.3 million in the 2014/2015 budget to them, created the Australia-Bali Eye Centre to help combat blindness in around 50.000 people, helped build schools in remote and poorest areas to provide education need I go on?

In return we get bombed in 2002, 2004 and 2005. They stuck their finger up at us & refused to at least keep these men in jail for life to keep on assisting their own people. Those prisoners and their families will now get nothing. They were asked in respect of Australia to not make the announcement on Anzac Day which is a special day for Australia so what did they do?

Yes I'm angry, yes I care & that is only my opinion. I don't expect you to agree, if you think the right thing was done it doesn't matter to me.

I'm having a sad day for more than just these executions but for a personal reason too. I don't doubt for one minute we will be in this position again in a few years because people are stupid and make mistakes.

Thank you very much for this post. Great knowledge on the subject, I'm very impressed. You just shut me up.

You can fight for the things you believe in and you don't have to explain to anyone why. It's not that I don't agree with you, it's just that I think that it's a bit pretentious to try to question other countries laws, specially when it involves death penalties. Look, I don't want to be executed for smuggling drugs from or into Indonesia. So, what should I do? Probably never try to smuggle drugs from or into Indonesia.

I feel bad for those who were executed today, but even more so for their families and loved ones. It is, sadly, the world we live in.

I'm so sorry Nosaj, I didn't want to shut you up. I hope I didn't come across as offensive, I certainly wasn't aiming any anger at you personally.

You are so right, don't do the crime & you won't do the time.

I apologise if I sounded rude, my emotions are pretty bad right now.

Can you tell me a joke to cheer me up maybe? Now I'm crying because you were so nice in your reply. I expected you to berate me. I misjudged you, I'm sorry.

[ZoSoRose]

omg, yes, the world is shit

isn't asxl a rock singr though? how bout some god damn music! !!

[tinyrobot]

People who work as 'mules' are usually the weakest link in the chain. Expecting them to know better, abide by rules and strategically plan their lives is unrealistic.

People who work as 'mules' are in most cases juvenile delinquents, drug addicts, school drop-outs or women who are in charge of a family they cannot financially support.

Labeling them as idiots does nothing but show the burgoise mind of the judge.

[The Black]

Welcome to Jakarta

We've got drug laws

If you try to smuggle them

You'll get a bullet to the jaw

It is the reason you are paid

So very handsomely

If you choose to take the risk

You might end up on your knees

In Jakarta

Welcome to Jakarta

They will put you on your sha-na-na-na-na-na knees knees

Oh, we're going to watch you bleed

Edited April 29, 2015 by The Black

[wasted]

It could be a similar use of metaphor as Chi dem. Axl felt like his career was given a death sentence, now he feels like he was given a reprieve but that he feels that people see it as just buying time until its killed. Like release a record, yes but really the media and haters will kill it. People will never forgive him type of thing. It's kind of universal, you get judged on your actions.

It's like do you address it or I Am whatever you say I am it?

Some guy in town who was kind of a drunk was berating some women calling them names. They took him to court and it was in the local paper. He was kind of shamed. Instead of just laughing it off, he put an anchor round his neck and jumped in the bay. It's like he couldn't live with his new role. So now those women feel guilty. So good times!

I do too see a really deep layer of connection where Axl relates to this people in some metaphorical way.

At some point he could relate to Charles Manson as well... He tried to explain that and he failed.

Now.. Obama administration has a lot of things to be questioned. Why doesn't _Axl write him a letter?

Two possible answers at least. He's only human, some move you to action. Maybe there is some kind of identification.

Also, maybe he has written Obama. There's only that many hours in the day.

I see no problem with individuals having their opinions and airing them.

A relative wrote a letter to Blair about not going to war in Iraq. That's how they felt protest should be done. It was kind of a none of our business don't get our kids killed wrecking Iraq. There were no WMDs there. Etc.

Of course the whole point is that they just need a war to get the military contracts moving. Amongst other reasons which weren't about what is right. But I didn't say anything, I didn't feel a letter would help though.

And same with Indonesia. No point but maybe that's how you affect change. There has to be this open dialogue to say a bit harsh? Just to improve things a bit. Complete stasis is counter productive. Got to question yourself too.

You're never right, you just haven't been proved wrong yet. That's a quote from someone.

There's positives to dictatorships too sometimes. Rule of law. It could be worse sometimes. We have this rose tinted view of western democracies. But with freedom comes responsibility and sometimes it's lacking. It doesn't work out all the time.

Edited April 29, 2015 by wasted

[wasted]

omg, yes, the world is shit

isn't asxl a rock singr though? how bout some god damn music! !!

After reading the thread I listened to Sorry and Madagascar and they made sense. Won't set them free! And maybe it matters more than we even know MJ Fox quote. I guess it's more Axl the artist. He's like the Bono that' it's okay to hate.

[Strange Broue]

Fun fact, Axl wrote that letter in 2010 but the record label made him release it now

aaand his last minute letter was late

again

lol

Anyway, nice gesture from Axl

He is furious now according to his twitter, probably won't lick the Indonesian president's ass anymore...

Plus they will never play Indonesia again.

[Amir]

To the person who asked - yes the President of Indonesia is a Guns 'n Roses fan & was pictured wearing their t-shirt when he was first put into the position.

Thanks for that, did a quick Google and found these pics from the 2012 Jakarta show:

So it's not completely out of the blue for Axl to try to persuade him.

[Strange Broue]

Can someone explain why a bunch of heroin smugglers deserve special treatment?

I also find it funny that Axl would speak out in their defence given his own public lambasting of his own bandmembers for using the drug.

It's called diplomacy

Plus Axl is not support death penalty

If i want to be a cock i would say he defend them, because he was using heroin in the 80's, plus his then best buddy was a dealer too

Edited April 29, 2015 by Strange Broue

[seagullview]

I don't get this. "The smugglers would ruin a lot of people´s lives" They wouldn't, the cunts who chose to do heroin would.

I don't understand the reason to call drug addicts "cunts", but it's a vicious circle. Those "cunts" who tried to smuggle drugs from a country to another did it because they wanted to. They knew what they were doing.

In the case of the Filipino woman that's open for discussion. A lot of people think she didn't know she smuggled the drugs