Was Axl a Poser during UYI Era?

[Modano09]

GNR were the biggest band in the world, I'm sure there were some PR or management people who wanted to keep them that way and had Axl try to downplay One in a Million/Manson cover. Or Axl himself couldn't take the criticism.

Marilyn Manson's entire shtick is being hated and controversial. 

[tsinindy]

48 minutes ago, DIST said:

Ferocity in vocal and physical performance, greatest performer of all time.

Oh....so you were representing your opinion as fact.  Thanks for clarifying

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

Axl has never been anything but real.  Like or dislike his history, he is authentic

[rocknroll41]

Short answer to OP: yup

[maynard]

38 minutes ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

Axl has never been anything but real.  Like or dislike his history, he is authentic

lol

[soon]

Im not entirely clear on the criteria of being a poser, but in saying that I don't mean to criticize the OP or any comments so far.  I get the question and am interested, just not sure how to answer, if that makes any sense.  But I guess Ill speak to both fashion and less physical, existential stuff.

On fashion.  Being intersted in fashion is a pose, i guess?  But I don't know that it ought to carry any stigma.  I'd feel like a poser if I tried to get with fashion trends but I know for sure that for many embracing fashion is natural and is a part of their true identity.  

In the interview with Axl and Robert John, promoting Johns Photographic History book, Axl talks about wanting to wait for that era to wind down before he revisits his fashion and revisions his presentation.  To me, this makes it seem that yes Axl is into communicating via fashion and that he sees fashion as a living aspect of culture.  I personally only understand fashion as commodity.  But its cool that some can be in touch with it as a rich and relevant form of creativity and expression.  So I see him conveying the pretence of an artist, but without being 'pretentious' in the more common, negative use of the word. 

On existentialism.  Self-mythologizing is what any good poet does.  And I believe thats precisely what brings us to their yard.  I hope theres a distinction between self-mythologizing and posing.  For instance, its been said by many including Axl himself that he relives the emotions and memories of the songs he's performing live.  So when he ends a song starring into the sky with a mysterious and intense look before disappearing into the darkness, I believe that its true he's been through something to give us that performance and I also believe that he wants to clearly convey that fact through grand gesture.  Im grateful he does.

Often in interviews - that metal show especially come to mind - Axl speaks as if everyone has been following his every move and knows his inner thoughts.  Like, he states something as if its the continuation of a conversation when its not and the interviewer has to ask for, or offer, clarification.  This to me is a sign that Axl truly lives in his own grand mythology, believing somehow that any thing he says is the continuation of one long conversation between he and the world.   This aspect I find sad and silly.

(One pose Axl doesn't strike is standing with his legs spread apart, a low slung les paul, cigarette, shades, hair over face and under a top hat.  To be clear I love them both as artists and performers!)

[vail2004]

Love Axl or not there has never been a rock star or celebrity less contrived or more authentic.  he is who is and he doesnt give a shit.  part of who he is is being a bit crazy and having thin skin to any kind of criticism ...but he never hides and is as honest to himself and his core as you will find.  james hetfield and plenty of others were insanely jealous of Axl for his talent and success.

[auad]

Always.

Until now.

[Stoymatic]

13 hours ago, RONIN said:

I think Axl for the most part is someone who truly does not give a fuck and does his own thing (hiring tracey and roberta, his FU to fans/critics who wanted another Appetite album by giving them a double album, etc)

But on the other hand, he appears to be a very confused person throughout the UYI era and the mid to late 90's. Almost like the mixed reaction to UYI and the criticism from the press and Grunge/Alternative camp were making him doubt himself. Hence....Axl "Pose". Then there's the other stuff like the ridiculous cigarette holder he always carried around, his Axl converse shoes, etc -- just seemed like he was trying too hard. His behavior reminds me of Stallone in the early 90's when he would wear glasses and speak pompously in his interviews, usually dropping some fancy vocabulary words or talking about his art collection. He was trying to change the perception through the media that he was simply a musclebound moron - but wearing glasses and putting on an act of sophistication only made him look more insecure and silly. That's how Axl's UYI schtick seems to me in hindsight.

"There was a point there where Axl goes: 'I'm gonna do a solo record, and I'm gonna get Trent Reznor and Dave Navarro, and [Dave Grohl,] the drummer from Nirvana...' and so on. And it's like, he doesn't even know half of these people. He's just pulling them out of the sky." (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

"Trent Reznor from NIN is one [guy I want to work with], and Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction is another... I've talked to Trent about working with me on an industrial synth project, at least on one song, and I definitely want to work with Dave on something. I've always been curious what he would sound like working with Slash on something."  (Axl, Hit Parader, 1993)

"And I was like, 'Cool! Do your thing. That way you'll get it out of your system, and when you get back we'll just be Guns N' Roses.'" (Slash, Metal Hammer, 11/95)

 

"Then [Axl] decided his solo-project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs] No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

"Aftonbladet: You, Duff McKagan, Gilby Clarke... The most people in the band have made records outside Guns. Isn't Axl going to do a solo-record soon?
Slash: Axl thinks that Guns is his solo-project." (Slash, Aftonbladet, 04/02/95)

""Everybody used to go, "What's gonna happen when Guns is no longer.. when a new fad comes along?" or whatever. And I'd be, "I don't give a fuck". And I watched it happen, and it didn't matter to me. With Axl it mattered a hell of a lot. Next thing you know, he wants to be Pearl Jam, right? Why? I hate Pearl Jam anyway, so what's the point? And it's great to watch Pearl Jam going through what they're going through, cos I'm going, "See Axl?"-- Slash, November 1995.

"My last conversation with [Axl] was when he called me and was trying to explain what he wanted to do. And, basically, it was: I want to change the sound of the band. You know, I want to go more into a current direction. You know, I want to use, you know, more industrial type things. You know, he was really into bands like Jane's Addiction, Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails. And I just kinda laughed and said: You know, look - I want to play guitar in a loud version of The Rolling Stones, you know?" (Gilby, Spin, 07/99)

so, when axl decided he wanted to use guns as his solo record, he thought he could make the other guys in the band play the stuff he wanted them to play, correct? I have always been very interested in this topic. does axl just say" hey, here is how guns is going to sound from this point moving forward" and totally disregard any other band members imput? there has to be a topic somewhere in this forum covering this, does anyone have a link? 

[DIST]

3 hours ago, tsinindy said:

Oh....so you were representing your opinion as fact.  Thanks for clarifying

I was very clear from the first post, you just talk nonsense. 

[maynard]

2 hours ago, vail2004 said:

Love Axl or not there has never been a rock star or celebrity less contrived or more authentic.  he is who is and he doesnt give a shit.  part of who he is is being a bit crazy and having thin skin to any kind of criticism ...but he never hides and is as honest to himself and his core as you will find.  james hetfield and plenty of others were insanely jealous of Axl for his talent and success.

He doesn't give a shit about who he is but has a thin skin? That doesn't make sense!

He gives a lot of shit about what people are thinking IMO. He has a thin skin IMO.

And that sucks because he's talented and should release more music but he's afraid of people's reaction. And his music shouldn't use layers and layers to hide his insecurity.

[DIST]

4 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

LOL greatest Performer who can't even sing right many times. Right. On a good day he's certainly one of the best. But those good days don't happen every day. And to be the best, every performance should be a good day and not be hit and miss.

[maynard]

I don't think every performance should be good. But every performance shouldn't be bad either. And Axl's vocal performance has been bad since 2011 in 99% of the time.

Compare to 2006-2010 and Axl/DC where he sounds good every night. It's like a completely different person. Feel free to disagree but you're an idiot for doing so.

It's sad to see how bad Axl has been singing his own songs for the last 6 years.

EDIT: Holy shit, 7,999 posts!

Edited March 13, 2017 by maynard

[Sunset Gardner]

the only time axl was ever a poser was when he was playing in his solo band and was calling it gnr.  or that time he made a solo record and called it chinese democracy, he was posing then too.  

[Tom2112]

5 minutes ago, maynard said:

I don't think every performance should be good. But every performance shouldn't be bad either. And Axl's vocal performance has been bad since 2011 in 99% of the time.

Compare to 2006-2010 and Axl/DC where he sounds good every night. It's like a completely different person. Feel free to disagree but you're an idiot for doing so.

It's sad to see how bad Axl has been singing his own songs for the last 6 years.

EDIT: Holy shit, 7,999 posts!

I agree for the most part. He did sound consistent with AC/DC. Does he sound bad with GNR? no, but he doesn't sound great like he did in 2006 or even 2010... which I know everyone loves 2010, but it wasn't that exceptional, he was fairly out of shape and pitchy. I KNOW! he had loads of rasp on a consistent basis! but he was really out of breath. 

If the "reunion" happened in 2006 peoples heads would have exploded! such a shame. 

I think he's doing a good/decent job with GnR on these shows, he isn't as consistent as he was with AC/DC; that's down to interest. In AC/DC he gets to sing a set of all new songs, in GNR he's singing 30yr old songs, most of which he's been singing consistently for the last 15+ years not to mention the AFD&UYI years. Should he be less interested and performing at a lower level on his own material on such a important tour? no! Does he have to play a tired old set? no! he could change things up and keep things interesting for himself.

[Tom2112]

And to the thread. No. Was he influenced by his surroundings fashion/music etc. yes, of course. The majority of people that talk about Axl always say the same things. He was basically the same guy in 1986 as he was in 93 but he was just older and richer and allowed to get away with more off the wall shit. 

[Billsfan]

16 hours ago, sanity_lost said:

Some Kurt Loder thoughts that I stumbled across trying to find the date of the Final Words interview made in 2008:

"I think, even as eccentric as Axl seems, he really is who he is. It's not really an act or anything. I think maybe he had some problems with kind of ... keeping it together in public, which would be storming off the stage or jumping into the pit to wrestle cameras out of fans' hands. But that's just the way he is. He's not at all pretentious."

"Well, I think Axl is a little out of control, which is the way you should be if you're going to be a big rock star with the limos and all that," Loder said. "You should be out of control, and you should never know what's going to happen next, so I thought that was great. That doesn't happen at that level any more, because I think bands arrive at that level with all kinds of attorneys and handlers and stuff. They sort of pose as rebels, but they're not dangerous. Nothing's going to happen around them. Whereas with Axl, you never knew." (Of course he then added that he thought it was because he was on drugs.) 

I also have a bit of a hard time giving much weight to what Keith Loder says because he also said Axl was arrested for starting a fight out side of St. Louis. I guess a riot is kind of a fight, right?

 

http://www.mtv.com/news/257480

Fight, riot, whatever. Is accuracy or lack of accuracy really worth calling for Kurt's head?  

[coolranchdressing!]

4 hours ago, Modano09 said:

GNR were the biggest band in the world, I'm sure there were some PR or management people who wanted to keep them that way and had Axl try to downplay One in a Million/Manson cover. Or Axl himself couldn't take the criticism.

Marilyn Manson's entire shtick is being hated and controversial. 

exactly, M Manson is "shtick"...a characature/an act...could that be a phony/poser?...

Axl was real...flawed...yes he wasn't certain in his convictions...he said what he meant at the time (e.g. OIM) and then maybe regretted it/didn't want to be seen as a bad guy/handlers told him to make nice.

Why did he include Manson's song at the end of TSI?...sure he wanted to raise controversy...just like most pop figures back then (Madonna, Prince, hell even Nirvana who were anti-establishment...their videos/album covers were controversial at the time)...

[janrichmond]

No i don't think Axl was a poser i thought he was a great frontman for a great band. He definitely came across as a massive diva back then according to the press stuff. As fans then we had a very limited amount of info to know much of the goings on at that time. 

I saw them in '91, '92 and '93 like @RussTCB . A lot of my mates thought he was a wanker because of the rants/lateness etc. I thought he was the sexiest man on the planet with the most amazing voice. I am glad that we didn't have internet back then because when we did get something new, it really was new and exciting.I miss those days

[The Holographic Universe]

4 hours ago, tremolo said:

I say fuck the fans.

Art is by essence pure self-indulgence.

Bowie did it himself, he killed and recreated himself over and over, and never went back. BUT Bowie wasn't trying to ride the trends of the time, he was just moving into something else just because his own creativity was taking him to different places. I think Axl just wanted to follow the trend to remain relevant.

Again, fuck the fans. I think if Axl had succeeded in changing styles, he would have found the right crowds, but it seems that the problems were:

- His motivations (remaining relevant by whoring himself out to the trends of the time)

- Him being part of a band, and the rest of the band not wanting to change styles, as opposed to Bowie who was a one-man show.

I think it was a mix of both things that fucked it all up in terms of musical direction.

 

I still think an Axl album with Dave Navarro produced by Trent Reznor would have been absolutely incredible, and it could have attracted a new breed of fans.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About Manson, I have to agree with him. If you're gonna talk shit, be a fucking man and stand by your own words and fight the fight; or acknowledge your fuck up and be a man. Axl didn't do either, he did something controversial and then he looked like a pussy trying to justify himself, blaming everyone who misunderstood what he meant. I don't think he was a pussy and that his crazy behaviour was just a pose. I think he was just too crazy and volatile to make sense to anyone.

 

Everything else (the videos, the late starts, the AXL Converse, etc) was just a big ego ride, and virtually every fucking famous musician has done it, so I don't think it's relevant at all.

 

And we have a winner!

[Billsfan]

12 hours ago, megaguns1982 said:

it's pretty obvious that axl was getting his ego stroked really hard in the early 90s,  it went to his head, and he became a pompise asshole.

 

I'd have to agree with this the most. I used to always wonder what meds Axl was using at the time because I always felt that from like 91 or 92 on to the change of the century, he seemed to really be out of his mind the most. His vision for reality and GNR was just unrealistic and he was still hell bent on making it happen regardless.

[Billsfan]

4 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I've never seen him as a poser..... just as a guy that sabotages his own career time after time after time after time after time.....you get the point.

It's a shame nobody could have warned Axl or said "you know, if you go down this road things will get messy. It won't be as fun as you think" or even "hey Axl, there's a new leg of the tour coming. Maybe you should rehearse with your band". I guess when you're in fear of being fired by Axl though..

[The Holographic Universe]

3 hours ago, soon said:

Im not entirely clear on the criteria of being a poser, but in saying that I don't mean to criticize the OP or any comments so far.  I get the question and am interested, just not sure how to answer, if that makes any sense.  But I guess Ill speak to both fashion and less physical, existential stuff.

On fashion.  Being intersted in fashion is a pose, i guess?  But I don't know that it ought to carry any stigma.  I'd feel like a poser if I tried to get with fashion trends but I know for sure that for many embracing fashion is natural and is a part of their true identity.  

In the interview with Axl and Robert John, promoting Johns Photographic History book, Axl talks about wanting to wait for that era to wind down before he revisits his fashion and revisions his presentation.  To me, this makes it seem that yes Axl is into communicating via fashion and that he sees fashion as a living aspect of culture.  I personally only understand fashion as commodity.  But its cool that some can be in touch with it as a rich and relevant form of creativity and expression.  So I see him conveying the pretence of an artist, but without being 'pretentious' in the more common, negative use of the word. 

On existentialism.  Self-mythologizing is what any good poet does.  And I believe thats precisely what brings us to their yard.  I hope theres a distinction between self-mythologizing and posing.  For instance, its been said by many including Axl himself that he relives the emotions and memories of the songs he's performing live.  So when he ends a song starring into the sky with a mysterious and intense look before disappearing into the darkness, I believe that its true he's been through something to give us that performance and I also believe that he wants to clearly convey that fact through grand gesture.  Im grateful he does.

Often in interviews - that metal show especially come to mind - Axl speaks as if everyone has been following his every move and knows his inner thoughts.  Like, he states something as if its the continuation of a conversation when its not and the interviewer has to ask for, or offer, clarification.  This to me is a sign that Axl truly lives in his own grand mythology, believing somehow that any thing he says is the continuation of one long conversation between he and the world.   This aspect I find sad and silly.

(One pose Axl doesn't strike is standing with his legs spread apart, a low slung les paul, cigarette, shades, hair over face and under a top hat.  To be clear I love them both as artists and performers!)

Awesome and thoughtful post.

[maynard]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

I agree for the most part. He did sound consistent with AC/DC. Does he sound bad with GNR? no, but he doesn't sound great like he did in 2006 or even 2010... which I know everyone loves 2010, but it wasn't that exceptional, he was fairly out of shape and pitchy. I KNOW! he had loads of rasp on a consistent basis! but he was really out of breath. 

Dude, it was exceptional. He sounds really bad nowadays, especially compared to that era. Do you know why everyone loves 2010? Because Axl sounded like.... Axl Rose!

He wasn't out of breath at all compared to the current tour or post 2011 shows. I don't like that cicle because of DJ Ashba but Axl was great.

He sounds like shit nowadays with that awful clean and weak voice. It's a shame.

[Tom-Ass]

Axl had lost his mind during the UYI era.. He had became every thing he once stood and preached against. Not sure if I can blame him.. If you weren't there you may not realize how fucking huge these guys became. They were powerful and everybody handles power differently...