Slash says "new" BETTER intro came from working on different material?

[Iron MikeyJ]

18 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Never thought of that but now I agree. Thatd be great

Also, Better is one of my favorite GNR songs and it was a set highlight for me. The version I got during the second Chicago 2016 show was one of the best live renditions I've heard. It was really good

It would make the song rock harder imo. It would also "possibly" put better into the YCBM/Jungle type territory of rockers. More of a modern rocker yes, but still rocking pretty hard. Honestly a great producer like Mike Clink would have caught this. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

17 hours ago, ludurigan said:

exactly

thats one of the very many "ingredients" that made GNR songs great along with many others.

Almost every GNR song has very very good dynamics. these sort of dynamics make you like the song and make you want to listen to it (using the words of Axl on early NR) "again and again and again and again and again"

Problem is that Slash and Duff and Axl seem to be completely clueless about how to do that in a song. When you listen to their solo material there is very little to none of that. Their solo stuff has very poor dynamics in too many songs. very little of that building-crescendo-then-releasing-etc dynamics on their songs

Exceptions are few and far between. Neurotic Outsiders and VR are the main ones, but Neurotic Outsiders is basically all Steve Jones (a master on dynamics) and VR songs likely had a lot of unsung input from Kushner.

I have said that before and i will say it again: THAT new intro to better is exhibit #A on how Slash and Duff are not able to create satisfactory dynamics by themselves. It shows that they are good at creating nice parts but most of the time they don't know what to do with them and end up taking "wrong turns" that basically waste all the momentum and make the songs boring and hard to listen to.

I agree about the dynamics. That's why, imo Guns might be THE best rock band ever, even better than Zeppelin, AC/DC, or ANYONE else. It's all about the dynamics. 

Take Nightrain for example. When Axl sings the opening "loaded like a freight train..." he is using more of his midrange type voice. Which he keeps that throughout the first 3/4 of the song. It follows the same verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo that most "classic rock" type songs follow. But then AFTER the guitar solo, Axl highers his pitch and REALLY starts belting it out. Then the WHOLE band follows that lead and goes into "over drive". Most other bands DONT do this. They follow the same dynamics established at the beginning of the song, including the mighty Zeppelin. Guns doesn't do this, the dynamics CHANGE as the song goes along. 

Other bands DO similar things, but they do one of two things. 1. They write a different musical part for the song (instead A, B, C they add a D section). Metallica does this often, they write a "new" final section of the song to change the dynamics. Which isn't bad or wrong, but it's not the same thing as what guns do. Nightrain doesn't change musically, just the bands approach (dynamics) do. Or 2. The singer DOES change his/her dynamics but the band has trouble following that lead. Aerosmith comes to mind here, Tyler can and DOES change his approach as the song progresses (in certain cases) but the rest of the band doesn't come along with him like Guns does. So the song doesn't reach this "over drive" gear like guns does. 

This is why I use Nightrain as the example of this, go listen to it for what I'm saying. After the solo Axl raises his voice and the WHOLE band ups their game to match him. It's a beautiful and EXTREMLY rare quality. 

I warn everyone though, once you "hear" what I'm saying, you won't be able to look at other bands the same. Even bands like AC/DC and Zeppelin become tame compared to the DYNAMICS that exist on Appetite especially.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[D.Z.I.]

1 hour ago, ironmt said:

That Is your opinion. Many people thought the intro that Slash and Duff came up with improved the song. 

They didn’t come up with it, they copied it from whoever wrote that piece (Robin? Fortus? Bucket?).

I don’t mind if people like it, to each their own, but it’s not like Duff and Slash transformed the song. Saying this was a bad or sub-par song and that now thanks to Slash and Duff it’s much better doesn’t make any sense. It’s the same song, just made longer by repeating a section of it.

[appetite4illusions]

27 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I agree about the dynamics. That's why, imo Guns might be THE best rock band ever, even better than Zeppelin, AC/DC, or ANYONE else. It's all about the dynamics. 

Take Nightrain for example. When Axl sings the opening "loaded like a freight train..." he is using more of his midrange type voice. Which he keeps that throughout the first 3/4 of the song. It follows the same verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo that most "classic rock" type songs follow. But then AFTER the guitar solo, Axl highers his pitch and REALLY starts belting it out. Then the WHOLE band follows that lead and goes into "over drive". Most other bands DONT do this. They follow the same dynamics established at the beginning of the song, including the mighty Zeppelin. Guns doesn't do this, the dynamics CHANGE as the song goes along. 

Other bands DO similar things, but they do one of two things. 1. They write a different musical part for the song (instead A, B, C they add a D section). Metallica does this often, they write a "new" final section of the song to change the dynamics. Which isn't bad or wrong, but it's not the same thing as what guns do. Nightrain doesn't change musically, just the bands approach (dynamics) do. Or 2. The singer DOES change his/her dynamics but the band has trouble following that lead. Aerosmith comes to mind here, Tyler can and DOES change his approach as the song progresses (in certain cases) but the rest of the band doesn't come along with him like Guns does. So the song doesn't reach this "over drive" gear like guns does. 

This is why I use Nightrain as the example of this, go listen to it for what I'm saying. After the solo Axl raises his voice and the WHOLE band ups their game to match him. It's a beautiful and EXTREMLY rare quality. 

I warn everyone though, once you "hear" what I'm saying, you won't be able to look at other bands the same. Even bands like AC/DC and Zeppelin become tame compared to the DYNAMICS that exist on Appetite especially.

Historically speaking, the best parts of GN'R songs are the endings, because you're right - Axl is usually pushing the melody much harder with greater range and intensity and the band is following suit. 

But I don't think key changes are all that uncommon in rock music, GN'R just did it much more effectively in their songs. 

[DieselDaisy]

Jesus, you people need new music. Desperately. 

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[WhazUp]

2 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I agree about the dynamics. That's why, imo Guns might be THE best rock band ever, even better than Zeppelin, AC/DC, or ANYONE else. It's all about the dynamics. 

Then the WHOLE band follows that lead and goes into "over drive". Most other bands DONT do this. They follow the same dynamics established at the beginning of the song, including the mighty Zeppelin.

Zeppelin totally does that though too!  Like on the outro to Kashmir, When The Levee Breaks, with the crazy production changing with every verse reaching a pinnacle at the last minute or so when everything is swirling around you sonically, the whole band taking it further when Plant starts wailing at the end of Since I've Been Loving You.  

I would argue that Zeppelin is an example of a band who does the opposite of following the same dynamics established at the start of the song!  Stairway to Heaven is basically a 7 minute long escalation in dynamics

 

Although I agree with the sentiment of GNR being really good at it as well

Edited October 2, 2018 by WhazUp

[Iron MikeyJ]

52 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Zeppelin totally does that though too!  Like on the outro to Kashmir, When The Levee Breaks, with the crazy production changing with every verse reaching a pinnacle at the last minute or so when everything is swirling around you sonically, the whole band taking it further when Plant starts wailing at the end of Since I've Been Loving You.  

I would argue that Zeppelin is an example of a band who does the opposite of following the same dynamics established at the start of the song!  Stairway to Heaven is basically a 7 minute long escalation in dynamics

 

Although I agree with the sentiment of GNR being really good at it as well

You missed my point on it though. Take Stairway for example, yes the song keeps progressing and dynamics do as well. But why? Because by the time you get to the end of the song, it is a completely different piece of music than the beginning. The "as we wind on down the road..." part that COULD be a completely different song IF they wanted it to be. The brilliance there is how they combined the different sections into one song. Same goes for the outro November Rain or the "where do we go now" part in SCOM, it's not the same chord progression as what was earlier in the song. Yes those parts rock, no argument there. 

What I'm talking about in songs like Nightrain is the ONLY thing that changes is Axl starts singing in a whole octive higher. That in turn raises the intensity of the entire song, and the whole band (Slash especially) does an AMAZING job going with him. That's what I VERY RARELY (if ever) here out of other bands. Zeppelin for example (whole lotte love, black dog, rock and roll, any you can name), Plants vocals DONT change throughout the song. How he sings at the beginning, he sings at the end. Yes he might scream, but it's only for that moment, then he is back to his original register. Same goes for AC/DC (doesn't matter the singer) how Johnson or Scott sings the first chorus remains the same throught the ENTIRE song. His vocals dont change. (On a side note that's why Axl sings ACDC so well imo, it's easier for him). 

I'm saying MOST bands add a new section on the end of the song in order to add a new dynamic element to the piece. Yes Guns does this as well. But other times they STILL add an additional dynamic WITHOUT changing the actual music.

 

I'm not saying Zeppelin NEVER does it, I would have to listen to their music strictly for this. Take Kashmir for example, before this conversation, I have thought to myself "they might do it in Kashmir". But let's talk about that for a minute... I have often said "Coma is Guns Kashmir." Which song has the greater dynamics at the end (in your opinion) Kashmir or Coma? I would honestly say Coma does.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[WhazUp]

27 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

What I'm talking about in songs like Nightrain is the ONLY thing that changes is Axl starts singing in a whole octive higher. That in turn raises the intensity of the entire song, and the whole band (Slash especially) does an AMAZING job going with him. That's what I VERY RARELY (if ever) here out of other bands. Zeppelin for example (whole lotte love, black dog, rock and roll, any you can name), Plants vocals DONT change throughout the song. How he sings at the beginning, he sings at the end. Yes he might scream, but it's only for that moment, then he is back to his original register. Same goes for AC/DC (doesn't matter the singer) how Johnson or Scott sings the first chorus remains the same throught the ENTIRE song. His vocals dont change. (On a side note that's why Axl sings ACDC so well imo, it's easier for him). 

I'm saying MOST bands add a new section on the end of the song in order to add a new dynamic element to the piece. Yes Guns does this as well. But other times they STILL add an additional dynamic WITHOUT changing the actual music.

 

I'm not saying Zeppelin NEVER does it, I would have to listen to their music strictly for this. Take Kashmir for example, before this conversation, I have thought to myself "they might do it in Kashmir". But let's talk about that for a minute... I have often said "Coma is Guns Kashmir." Which song has the greater dynamics at the end (in your opinion) Kashmir or Coma? I would honestly say Coma does.

I get what you mean but still I do respectfully disagree!  I don't think GNR does that sort of thing necessarily more than Zeppelin - some examples of the vocals changing but the music being the same is When The Levee Breaks, The Battle of Evermore, Since I've Been Loving You, etc.   Where Robert Plant takes it up a notch but there isn't any new section

If you want to dissect it though regarding writing new sections, wouldn't Kashmir be the better example of what you mean though?  With Kashmir, the actual music isn't changing from what was already there, as in there is not another section being written, the band takes the dynamics of a section that was previously played and bring it up a notch to serve Robert's vocals being more intense whereas with Coma that last section is indeed new and altered from the rest of the song, right?

As to which one is more dynamic, I dunno, in terms of the last section of Coma and the last section of Kashmir I can't honestly choose!  Both are intense and great buildups.  

 

Although I am biased because in terms of music fandom, I put Zeppelin higher than GNR in terms of my own personal favorites - I just had to chime in to defend my boy Zep here   I don't mean to start an argument for argument's sake, I do agree with you that GNR has a great way of building up dynamics using the tools of their own sense of build up.  For me though since your initial post said "They follow the same dynamics established at the beginning of the song, including the mighty Zeppelin" I just had to go to bat for them!

Edited October 3, 2018 by WhazUp

[Iron MikeyJ]

Just now, WhazUp said:

I get what you mean but still I do respectfully disagree!  I don't think GNR does that sort of thing necessarily more than Zeppelin - some examples of the vocals changing but the music being the same is When The Levee Breaks, The Battle of Evermore, Since I've Been Loving You, etc.   Where Robert Plant takes it up a notch but there isn't any new section

If you want to dissect it though regarding writing new sections, wouldn't Kashmir be the better example of what you mean though?  With Kashmir, the actual music isn't changing from what was already there, as in there is not another section being written, the band takes the dynamics of a section that was previously played and bring it up a notch to serve Robert's vocals being more intense whereas with Coma that last section is indeed new and altered from the rest of the song, right?

As to which one is more dynamic, I dunno, in terms of the last section of Coma and the last section of Kashmir I can't honestly choose!  Both are intense and great buildups.  

 

Although I am biased because in terms of music fandom, I put Zeppelin higher than GNR in terms of my own personal favorites - I just had to chime in to defend my boy Zep here 

No worries. I LOVE zep too. I am BY NO MEANS saying definitively Guns is a better overall band. Lots of factors can be looked at. But for this particular aspect, Guns does THIS better than Zep imo. I can think of SO many Zep songs (mostly the rockers) where how plant sings the first chorus, it remains the same throughout the entire song (black dog, rock and roll, whole lotta love) just to name a few. Same goes for ACDC, "shoot to thrill, ready to kill" NEVER changes, it's always the same. Guns picks up the intensity (in their rockers especially) towards the end of the song, better than ANY band imo. That's why Appetite is the best hard rock album ever imo. It just plain out rocks anything that came before or since. But this is subjective, I'm not trying to sway anyones opinion. 

Having said that, I agree, its Guns and Zep who use dynamics better than ANY other hard rock bands. I had a feeling someone would bring up Zeppelin, because like all things, they are the benchmark. 👍

[T-Minus]

The intro always reminded me of the guitar part in this 0.32 onwards
 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by T-Minus

[Bansidhe]

3 hours ago, T-Minus said:

The intro always reminded me of the guitar part in this 0.32 onwards
 

 

I knew it reminded me of something but couldn't remember what.

Same thing but just the 1st & 2nd notes are reversed.

[El Guapo]

On 2.10.2018 at 10:49 PM, Iron MikeyJ said:

I agree about the dynamics. That's why, imo Guns might be THE best rock band ever, even better than Zeppelin, AC/DC, or ANYONE else. It's all about the dynamics. 

Take Nightrain for example. When Axl sings the opening "loaded like a freight train..." he is using more of his midrange type voice. Which he keeps that throughout the first 3/4 of the song. It follows the same verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solo that most "classic rock" type songs follow. But then AFTER the guitar solo, Axl highers his pitch and REALLY starts belting it out. Then the WHOLE band follows that lead and goes into "over drive". Most other bands DONT do this. They follow the same dynamics established at the beginning of the song, including the mighty Zeppelin. Guns doesn't do this, the dynamics CHANGE as the song goes along. 

Other bands DO similar things, but they do one of two things. 1. They write a different musical part for the song (instead A, B, C they add a D section). Metallica does this often, they write a "new" final section of the song to change the dynamics. Which isn't bad or wrong, but it's not the same thing as what guns do. Nightrain doesn't change musically, just the bands approach (dynamics) do. Or 2. The singer DOES change his/her dynamics but the band has trouble following that lead. Aerosmith comes to mind here, Tyler can and DOES change his approach as the song progresses (in certain cases) but the rest of the band doesn't come along with him like Guns does. So the song doesn't reach this "over drive" gear like guns does. 

This is why I use Nightrain as the example of this, go listen to it for what I'm saying. After the solo Axl raises his voice and the WHOLE band ups their game to match him. It's a beautiful and EXTREMLY rare quality. 

I warn everyone though, once you "hear" what I'm saying, you won't be able to look at other bands the same. Even bands like AC/DC and Zeppelin become tame compared to the DYNAMICS that exist on Appetite especially.

On "Don't Damn Me" they were doing it as well, for example. You got good ears.

[Stoymatic]

They change a small part to a song and people flip thinking they are working on new music

That would be nice...

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

On "Don't Damn Me" they were doing it as well, for example. You got good ears.

I can tell you how I "stumbled" upon this. My 13 year old daughter LOVES Greta Van Fleet. I like them as well, but I have felt like something is "missing"  from their music. So I was listening to their From the Fires album, trying to figure out what was missing. That's when I noticed, their songs build, but then they take them back down, then they go to the solo.

Usually the guitar solo WILL be the high point of the song, so it's best for things to keep building until that point. Or if you take it back down, build it up again before the solo. Which Greta doesn't do good enough imo, they bring the song down, then jump into the solo. Which makes it feel a little forced or hurried imo. Which I then told my daughter "they need a better producer, to help them realize this". Which I FIRMLY believe Mike Clink helped Guns achieve this (the Appetite box set proves it). As far as Greta goes, I haven't heard much on their new album to make me think they fixed this, but I'm genuinely rooting for them.

So then I started listening to other bands (Zeppelin, ACDC, Van Halen, etc) and I noticed how they ALWAYS build the song to the solo, which makes the solo the high point of the song (dynamically speaking). When I was doing this "experiment" I was just listening to whatever song came next on my MP3 (which was on shuffle), I wasnt really thinking about Guns or anyone else in particular. Well then Nightrain came on, and like before, the song builds up to Slashs solo. But then I noticed something DIFFERENT, they kept building beyond the solo. So the solo WASNT the high point of the song, it was actually the last portion. Which got me thinking "man that's different from the other bands". So I started listening for MORE examples, and they have a LOT of songs like this. Then I went back and listened to Shoot to thrill (I figured that's a pretty rocking ACDC song), and nope, they dont do it. Then I did the same for Zeppelin and Van Halen, again nope... Which I didn't listen to every bands entire catalogue looking for this, but I listen for it now, quite often. 

Which I kinda came the conclusion, Guns does something BETTER than all the other great bands. Their dynamics are truly AMAZING. Which I'm not saying Guns is "without a doubt" the best rock band ever, but I DO thinks this helps make an arguement for them. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Iron MikeyJ

[ZoSoRose]

15 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I can tell you how I "stumbled" upon this. My 13 year old daughter LOVES Greta Van Fleet. I like them as well, but I have felt like something is "missing"  from their music. So I was listening to their From the Fires album, trying to figure out what was missing. That's when I noticed, their songs build, but then they take them back down, then they go to the solo.

Usually the guitar solo WILL be the high point of the song, so it's best for things to keep building until that point. Or if you take it back down, build it up again before the solo. Which Greta doesn't do good enough imo, they bring the song down, then jump into the solo. Which makes it feel a little forced or hurried imo. Which I then told my daughter "they need a better producer, to help them realize this". Which I FIRMLY believe Mike Clink helped Guns achieve this (the Appetite box set proves it). As far as Greta goes, I haven't heard much on their new album to make me think they fixed this, but I'm genuinely rooting for them.

So then I started listening to other bands (Zeppelin, ACDC, Van Halen, etc) and I noticed how they ALWAYS build the song to the solo, which makes the solo the high point of the song (dynamically speaking). When I was doing this "experiment" I was just listening to whatever song came next on my MP3 (which was on shuffle), I wasnt really thinking about Guns or anyone else in particular. Well then Nightrain came on, and like before, the song builds up to Slashs solo. But then I noticed something DIFFERENT, they kept building beyond the solo. So the solo WASNT the high point of the song, it was actually the last portion. Which got me thinking "man that's different from the other bands". So I started listening for MORE examples, and they have a LOT of songs like this. Then I went back and listened to Shoot to thrill (I figured that's a pretty rocking ACDC song), and nope, they dont do it. Then I did the same for Zeppelin and Van Halen, again nope... Which I didn't listen to every bands entire catalogue looking for this, but I listen for it now, quite often. 

Which I kinda came the conclusion, Guns does something BETTER than all the other great bands. Their dynamics are truly AMAZING. Which I'm not saying Guns is "without a doubt" the best rock band ever, but I DO thinks this helps make an arguement for them. 

GNR/Axl was killer at outros. SCOM, Nightrain, Coma, November Rain, Locomotive, Catcher in the Rye, etc. In most of those its the best part of the song

[El Guapo]

45 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I can tell you how I "stumbled" upon this. My 13 year old daughter LOVES Greta Van Fleet. I like them as well, but I have felt like something is "missing"  from their music. So I was listening to their From the Fires album, trying to figure out what was missing. That's when I noticed, their songs build, but then they take them back down, then they go to the solo.

Usually the guitar solo WILL be the high point of the song, so it's best for things to keep building until that point. Or if you take it back down, build it up again before the solo. Which Greta doesn't do good enough imo, they bring the song down, then jump into the solo. Which makes it feel a little forced or hurried imo. Which I then told my daughter "they need a better producer, to help them realize this". Which I FIRMLY believe Mike Clink helped Guns achieve this (the Appetite box set proves it). As far as Greta goes, I haven't heard much on their new album to make me think they fixed this, but I'm genuinely rooting for them.

So then I started listening to other bands (Zeppelin, ACDC, Van Halen, etc) and I noticed how they ALWAYS build the song to the solo, which makes the solo the high point of the song (dynamically speaking). When I was doing this "experiment" I was just listening to whatever song came next on my MP3 (which was on shuffle), I wasnt really thinking about Guns or anyone else in particular. Well then Nightrain came on, and like before, the song builds up to Slashs solo. But then I noticed something DIFFERENT, they kept building beyond the solo. So the solo WASNT the high point of the song, it was actually the last portion. Which got me thinking "man that's different from the other bands". So I started listening for MORE examples, and they have a LOT of songs like this. Then I went back and listened to Shoot to thrill (I figured that's a pretty rocking ACDC song), and nope, they dont do it. Then I did the same for Zeppelin and Van Halen, again nope... Which I didn't listen to every bands entire catalogue looking for this, but I listen for it now, quite often. 

Which I kinda came the conclusion, Guns does something BETTER than all the other great bands. Their dynamics are truly AMAZING. Which I'm not saying Guns is "without a doubt" the best rock band ever, but I DO thinks this helps make an arguement for them. 

Agreed. I never thought about it this way but your 100% right. Lack of dynamics like this make a lot of rock music boring. Guns had it figured out.

Would be interesting to know if only one of the bandmembers focused on this and, if so, who? Probably Axl.

[PhillyRose]

4 hours ago, Stoymatic said:

They change a small part to a song and people flip thinking they are working on new music

That would be nice...

Who's "flipping" thinking there's work on new music being done? Not in this thread at least 

[RussTCB]

15 minutes ago, PhillyRose said:

Who's "flipping" thinking there's work on new music being done? Not in this thread at least 

That was exactly what I was going to ask lol

[Nice Boy]

Ok so Slash and Duff didn't write a new piece for the intro, but they did manage to identify the best riff of the whole track and rework it into the intro, so that it actually gets some prominence. That alone deserves credit, because before they did this I didn't even notice the riff in its original place, buried under all the 'layers'. So what this shows is that they are able to bring the best out from stuff that is already written.

Now imagine what they could do with all the shit Axl has unreleased.. chuck the best of that with a couple of VR / AFD style straight up Rawk n Roll and they could have a nice UYI style album with all the diversity of songwriting that makes GnR great.

[Sydney Fan]

8 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Agreed. I never thought about it this way but your 100% right. Lack of dynamics like this make a lot of rock music boring. Guns had it figured out.

Would be interesting to know if only one of the bandmembers focused on this and, if so, who? Probably Axl.

I think mike clink would have also focused on this. Was also something tom Zutaut was into as well. But also thinking thompson and barbario who mixed the album were heavily into this as well as part of the mixing process.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Sydney Fan

[D.Z.I.]

On 10/4/2018 at 11:18 PM, Nice Boy said:

Ok so Slash and Duff didn't write a new piece for the intro, but they did manage to identify the best riff of the whole track and rework it into the intro, so that it actually gets some prominence. That alone deserves credit, because before they did this I didn't even notice the riff in its original place, buried under all the 'layers'. So what this shows is that they are able to bring the best out from stuff that is already written.

Now imagine what they could do with all the shit Axl has unreleased.. chuck the best of that with a couple of VR / AFD style straight up Rawk n Roll and they could have a nice UYI style album with all the diversity of songwriting that makes GnR great.

"The best riff of the whole track" that's debatable. The riff is not that buried though. While I agree that CD is a heavily layered album, it doesn't take much effort to hear a lot of those elements. Sure, there are some that are hard to distinguish, but that's not the case of this riff, in fact it's very noticeable, it's the very core of that bridge section, it's not buried or hidden under a bunch of layers.

Slash and Duff are good, they can create great stuff, they have done so in the past. But let's give credit where it's due. They are not King Midas for using the bridge section as the intro.

[Bitchisback]

I absolutely love Better, and I think the new intro and feel of the song is fantastic.  But i don't think Axl can sing it anymore.  Out of all 3 of the NITL shows I went to it was one of the worst songs each time.  He just doesn't have the voice for that song anymore.

 

It's a shame, it is a fantastic tune.

 

[Stro]

I think he sounds better on Better during NITL than he did all of 2011-2014 outside of that one off where Robin came on stage to play it.

[Nice Boy]

On 06/10/2018 at 2:57 PM, D.Z.I. said:

"The best riff of the whole track" that's debatable. The riff is not that buried though. While I agree that CD is a heavily layered album, it doesn't take much effort to hear a lot of those elements. Sure, there are some that are hard to distinguish, but that's not the case of this riff, in fact it's very noticeable, it's the very core of that bridge section, it's not buried or hidden under a bunch of layers.

Slash and Duff are good, they can create great stuff, they have done so in the past. But let's give credit where it's due. They are not King Midas for using the bridge section as the intro.

 

Put it this way, on the album version the bridge section we are talking about is 10 seconds long but buried under a shit guitar fast as fuck noodle that sounds like a synthesiser going mental, which leaves the riff indiscernible. So it was a good decision to bring it out as used in the new intro. Also the intro on the album version is weak, so the new intro adds some suspense.  

[appetite4illusions]

I don't think it really works in the context of the song because, as others have said, it goes from heavy to soft to heavy again and that's where the song really begins.

That's too much of a push/pull to introduce a song.

The biggest problem with Better was that the intro was very cringe worthy and it was cringe worthy because Axl's vocal melody sounded so wounded and vulnerable. It works totally as chorus, but by putting that melody at the begining with Robin playing it high on the neck, it sounded way too castrated and whiny.

Then - BOOM! The song kicks into a bombastic rhythm and Axl's vocals are sharp, raspy and righteous. 

I remember showing Better to many people, friends and co-workers alike, ten years ago. They had incredibly dramatic reactions to the song - they HATED it based on the first thirty seconds and LOVED it when the first verse began. It was the biggest about face i've ever seen - people went from smelling shit to rocking their fists.

Axl really should have removed his vocal melody from the beginning of the song - just let Robin play the intro and his vocals would come in on the first line. It would have made a huge difference.