The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[Bitchisback]

DiD tHeY rElEaSe tHe AlBuM yEt?

[AxlRoseCDII]

UYI Boxset next year. See you guys here in 2023!

[SoulMonster]

7 hours ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I don’t know, man. Being of the opposite opinion on the matter, I respectfully disagree. I know you’re not gonna like hearing this but, as much as you despise those posts, I read them and go “I’m glad someone’s saying it, because that’s kinda how I feel too.”

That's fine, but are you still going, "I'm glad someone's saying it," after the 1000th time? 

[jamillos]

10 hours ago, Pele said:

We all used to point to the fact he hoard his tracks.

He doesn't have any!

The album didn't come out in 99, or 00-01 because he didn't have the songs.  He had Chinese, with Hardschool/Perhaps - without Sorry/Better/Shacklers/Scraped etc and he took YEARS to finish it.

You’re wrong here. Axl thought it finished and wanted to start mixing in 2000, but Ezrin didn’t like it apart from 2–3 songs (according to his own words from 2012). So Axl did have the songs, whatever quality they had. And logically, there had to be finished vocals, i.e. there had to be something else apart from what we’ve heard so far. 

Which brings me to the main point. 

@Pele
@GoodOlJohnnyK
@SoulMonster

I’m not taking any sides here, just in general: according to Wiki, they used a total of fifteen studios. What we have is a single fragment from one of them. This is, by the way, where this "next single will be Perhaps/Atlas" comes from. I mean, why? Just because these are the ones that we’ve heard that have "finished" vocals? 
But my point is: I don’t think it’s fair to judge these tracks just deriving from the version we’ve heard. They’re not "unreleased songs", they’re just demos, most of them even without vocals, for god’s sake. 
 

[Italian girl]

3 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

UYI Boxset next year. See you guys here in 2023!

admins, please, close this thread. it's useless till then

[default_]

I rarely log into mygnr these days, but when I do, im sure the subject will be Pele in the last month or so. 😅

[yourcrazy]

Some days I really wonder why I keep checking this forum.  I can’t understand how or why people get so worked up over someone’s opinion.  As fans of GnR, a constant state of disappointment is pretty normal.  We have had some cool things happen these last 5 years.  Unfortunately it is also pretty evident that new music is nowhere close.  If reworked silkworms is the best they can do and as Slash stated that no new music has been created, it’s pretty obvious what is going to happen in the future.  With that said, we can also be happy to have had a successful tour, a couple new songs, a box set etc.   Chill out and enjoy what we do have because at 60, there isn’t much time left.  

[jamillos]

58 minutes ago, yourcrazy said:

Some days I really wonder why I keep checking this forum.  I can’t understand how or why people get so worked up over someone’s opinion.  As fans of GnR, a constant state of disappointment is pretty normal.  We have had some cool things happen these last 5 years.  Unfortunately it is also pretty evident that new music is nowhere close.  If reworked silkworms is the best they can do and as Slash stated that no new music has been created, it’s pretty obvious what is going to happen in the future.  With that said, we can also be happy to have had a successful tour, a couple new songs, a box set etc.   Chill out and enjoy what we do have because at 60, there isn’t much time left.  

GN’R have always stirred emotions. In particular, for someone so talented and mysterious, Axl has very unfortunate ways of publishing shit and communicating with the fans. So there’s no wonder one is frustrated when you look back at all the years of wasted opportunity, which, in my opinion, should be the name of any future albums from now on. Wasted Opportunity I, II etc. Not only during the CD era, where we could have had like 3 records, but nowadays all over again, with constant touring instead of working on something proper. And when you see this on an everyday basis, plus when you take a look at how other bands operate...
The box set is good news. But I believe there’s still a lot of potential – but here we are, yet another day with nothing fruitful on the horizon. 

[Pele]

6 hours ago, jamillos said:

You’re wrong here. Axl thought it finished and wanted to start mixing in 2000, but Ezrin didn’t like it apart from 2–3 songs (according to his own words from 2012). So Axl did have the songs, whatever quality they had. And logically, there had to be finished vocals, i.e. there had to be something else apart from what we’ve heard so far. 

Which brings me to the main point. 

@Pele
@GoodOlJohnnyK
@SoulMonster

I’m not taking any sides here, just in general: according to Wiki, they used a total of fifteen studios. What we have is a single fragment from one of them. This is, by the way, where this "next single will be Perhaps/Atlas" comes from. I mean, why? Just because these are the ones that we’ve heard that have "finished" vocals? 
But my point is: I don’t think it’s fair to judge these tracks just deriving from the version we’ve heard. They’re not "unreleased songs", they’re just demos, most of them even without vocals, for god’s sake. 
 

Good post.

But where you say I'm wrong here, I'm not. (IMO)  I specifically say he did have an 'album' - it was essentially Chinese, with OMG, Silkworms, Atlas, Hardskool and Perhaps - and minus Better, a useable TIL, Sorry, Shacklers, Scraped.

So IMO Erzin was right - use the good songs they had, but finish off the promising instrumentals and make it a better album.

I think nearly all of us would have done the same? 

If Rose (with a full working band) presented those songs in 2000, who wouldn't have said something similar to "ok, let's use Madagascar, Chinese, TWAT, The Blues, maybe HardSkool, maybe Perhaps, maybe IRS - and let's finish State of Grace and do some vox for Quick Song, Zodiac, Oklahoma, Three Dollar Pyramid etc and see how it looks"

Erzin suggested something similar and was fired.

 

The 15 studios is interesting. 

Other than the 'second wave' in 05-07 which yielded Scraped/Shacklers/General etc, I don't believe there was extensive work done in 15 studios.  I think individual members/engineers endlessly tweaked the Village recordings over and over , redoing whenever they got a new band member, producer etc.

I completely understand the rationale that The Village Sessions may be just 1 leak of one studio, and all the other studios may have completely different songs - but I 100% do not believe this to be the case.

If there was ANYTHING at all worth using, they wouldn't have resorted to releasing Silkworms/HardSkool with that same vocal.

If there were songs of any reasonable quality, they wouldn't have resorted to continuing to record/tweak songs like OMG/Silkworms and play around with nonsense like Blood in the Water.

If he had good songs, he wouldn't have worked on Riad for a decade.  Scraped/Catcher/If the World wouldn't have got near a final release.  He might not have needed to pull This I Love from the early 90s, which we wrote when he was about 26.

 

I firmly believe he had what we've heard, which is a few good songs, a few ok songs and a lot of poor songs - and a load of instrumentals given to him from some talented musicians he once employed.

If I'm right, the next release will consist of Perhaps/Atlas/General or OMG.

If I'm wrong, there will be a release of something none of us have heard or knew existed.

 

What's your money on?

[Pele]

2 hours ago, default_ said:

I rarely log into mygnr these days, but when I do, im sure the subject will be Pele in the last month or so. 😅

All he would need to do is release a new, unheard song and EVERYTHING I've said would be proven wrong.

Unfortunately, you've more chance of winning the lotto.

 

[jamillos]

11 minutes ago, Pele said:

Good post.

But where you say I'm wrong here, I'm not. (IMO)  I specifically say he did have an 'album' - it was essentially Chinese, with OMG, Silkworms, Atlas, Hardskool and Perhaps - and minus Better, a useable TIL, Sorry, Shacklers, Scraped.

So IMO Erzin was right - use the good songs they had, but finish off the promising instrumentals and make it a better album.

I think nearly all of us would have done the same? 

If Rose (with a full working band) presented those songs in 2000, who wouldn't have said something similar to "ok, let's use Madagascar, Chinese, TWAT, The Blues, maybe HardSkool, maybe Perhaps, maybe IRS - and let's finish State of Grace and do some vox for Quick Song, Zodiac, Oklahoma, Three Dollar Pyramid etc and see how it looks"

Erzin suggested something similar and was fired.

 

The 15 studios is interesting. 

Other than the 'second wave' in 05-07 which yielded Scraped/Shacklers/General etc, I don't believe there was extensive work done in 15 studios.  I think individual members/engineers endlessly tweaked the Village recordings over and over , redoing whenever they got a new band member, producer etc.

I completely understand the rationale that The Village Sessions may be just 1 leak of one studio, and all the other studios may have completely different songs - but I 100% do not believe this to be the case.

If there was ANYTHING at all worth using, they wouldn't have resorted to releasing Silkworms/HardSkool with that same vocal.

If there were songs of any reasonable quality, they wouldn't have resorted to continuing to record/tweak songs like OMG/Silkworms and play around with nonsense like Blood in the Water.

If he had good songs, he wouldn't have worked on Riad for a decade.  Scraped/Catcher/If the World wouldn't have got near a final release.  He might not have needed to pull This I Love from the early 90s, which we wrote when he was about 26.

 

I firmly believe he had what we've heard, which is a few good songs, a few ok songs and a lot of poor songs - and a load of instrumentals given to him from some talented musicians he once employed.

If I'm right, the next release will consist of Perhaps/Atlas/General or OMG.

If I'm wrong, there will be a release of something none of us have heard or knew existed.

 

What's your money on?

What I meant: According to Ezrin, Axl literally said during their talk "we’re ready for mixing". That itself means he must have had some 12+ songs finished including vocals. That fact just illustrates there are other recordings even from that Village era, not to mention the other studios. That was the point – there’s more than we know, judging solely by that one sentence of Axl. 
And yeah, I don’t suppose they recorded/created new stuff in all those studios. On the other hand, they couldn’t have used them just for endless, expensive sound wankery either. 
As for the song choice, yeah, it’s weird. But you know Axl, he’s a conceptual, methodical guy, and if he thinks "I want this song to be heard first" (listen motherfuckers), then he’ll play with it and put it on the album first. Maybe for it not to get too dated, lyrically-wise, for example? Who knows. 
But to be honest, I probably won’t consider any future single to mean anything definite in particular. It could still go either way, plus a dozen of others.  Granted it would definitely be better to hear something more... fresh. 
 

[Blackstar]

As confirmed from the Village Leaks, at that time Axl had 13 songs that were finished or near finished (CD title track, TWAT, Madagascar, The Blues, Prostitute, Catcher in the Rye, I.R.S, Rhiad, If The World, Hard School, Atlas Shrugged, Silkworms, Perhaps). Regardless of whether anyone likes some/all these songs or none of them (that's subjective), the fact remains that Axl did have an album then.

57 minutes ago, Pele said:

But where you say I'm wrong here, I'm not. (IMO)  I specifically say he did have an 'album' - it was essentially Chinese, with OMG, Silkworms, Atlas, Hardskool and Perhaps - and minus Better, a useable TIL, Sorry, Shacklers, Scraped.

So IMO Erzin was right - use the good songs they had, but finish off the promising instrumentals and make it a better album.

I think nearly all of us would have done the same? 

If Rose (with a full working band) presented those songs in 2000, who wouldn't have said something similar to "ok, let's use Madagascar, Chinese, TWAT, The Blues, maybe HardSkool, maybe Perhaps, maybe IRS - and let's finish State of Grace and do some vox for Quick Song, Zodiac, Oklahoma, Three Dollar Pyramid etc and see how it looks"

Erzin suggested something similar and was fired.

Were you there?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Blackstar

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

12 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Were you there?

Ezrin said himself that he told Axl that he had only 2.5 songs ready and that the rest of them were not ready to go. Axl said he disagreed, Ezrin left and never heard back.

[Blackstar]

Just now, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Ezrin said himself that he told Axl that he had only 2.5 songs ready and that the rest of them were not ready to go. Axl said he disagreed, Ezrin left and never heard back.

Yes, I know that. I was referring to Pele being sure about which songs Ezrin thought were good and which ones he thought needed more work (ie. Pele projecting his own opinion on Ezrin).

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, I know that. I was referring to Pele being sure about which songs Ezrin thought were good and which ones he thought needed more work (ie. Pele projecting his own opinion on Ezrin).

He didn’t say that though. Read it again. Pele listed the songs *he* thought were worthwhile. He stated that Ezrin suggested something similar (similar being “keep these 2.5 songs,” whichever they were, “and improve the rest.”) which is true.

You guys are just trying to pick a fight now.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

That's fine, but are you still going, "I'm glad someone's saying it," after the 1000th time? 

Honestly, yeah. It’s honestly no different to me than someone saying “Oh, you know how Axl is. He’s just waiting for the right time to release these new songs of his.”

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

He didn’t say that though. Read it again. Pele listed the songs *he* thought were worthwhile. He stated that Ezrin suggested something similar (similar being “keep these 2.5 songs,” whichever they were, “and improve the rest.”) which is true.

You guys are just trying to pick a fight now.

He said "who wouldn't have said..."

But anyway.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

8 hours ago, jamillos said:

Which brings me to the main point. 

@Pele
@GoodOlJohnnyK
@SoulMonster

I’m not taking any sides here, just in general: according to Wiki, they used a total of fifteen studios. What we have is a single fragment from one of them. This is, by the way, where this "next single will be Perhaps/Atlas" comes from. I mean, why? Just because these are the ones that we’ve heard that have "finished" vocals? 
But my point is: I don’t think it’s fair to judge these tracks just deriving from the version we’ve heard. They’re not "unreleased songs", they’re just demos, most of them even without vocals, for god’s sake. 
 

With regards to the fifteen studios, that’s an interesting point, but I don’t think fifteen studios necessarily means that there are a ton of other unreleased tunes, necessarily. It’s not like each studio has its own group of songs designated to it. Each band works differently - so Guns N’ Roses might be an exception here - but plenty of bands record albums across multiple studios, but the songs typically remain the same. U2 has famously used multiple studios over the last 25 years, but the songs remained the same. They just carry them from one studio to another.

It’s also important to delineate what constitutes a song here. Is an instrumental song comprised of a few cycles of two riffs by Buckethead, Tommy Stinson, Brain, Pitman and Dizzy considered a song? If so, then I’m sure they have hundreds. But until Axl gets involved, they’re meaningless. It’s been said that he often doesn’t even show up to sessions - he listens to the band’s recordings after the fact and identifies which pieces of music are interesting to him.

That’s why the leaks with vocals are the ones that we’re focused on - because, with the information we have handy, we can reasonably assume that those are the pieces of music Axl was interested in, since he at least laid a vocal track down. Furthermore, to answer your question about Perhaps/Atlas, then the answer is yes: it’s because those are the ones with vocals. If you told me on January 1, 2021 that Guns would be putting out two singles this year, I would have thought it could be anything. Once I heard Absurd and Hard Skool, both with old vocals and now with Slash and Duff, I could reasonably make the deduction that those Village Leaks with completed vocals are the well he’s drawing from.

Which is not to say that Axl won’t record something new someday (I sure hope he will at least). But, with Slash’s comment that the band is spending their time sprucing up CD holdovers, and with Absurd and HS featuring the same vocals available on the leaks, then believing that the next one in the chamber is Perhaps, Atlas, or SoG is a fairly reasonable assumption to make.

I agree with you, in general, on judging the quality of the tracks we’ve heard. I quite like Hard Skool and Absurd, and I think they’re both infinitely better than the leaked versions. My beef with the remaining tunes - and this is just a personal preference - is that I have a disdain for the mid-tempo type of tunes remaining on the leaks. Unless they drastically alter the rhythm sections of the remaining ones, then they probably just won’t be for me. Some people like IRS - I hate it. It’s not a ballad, it’s not super energetic, it’s sort of heavy but not really, it’s just in this sort of sludgy middle ground that I don’t like. Quicksong, Zodiac, SoG, Eye On You remind me of that.

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Which is not to say that Axl won’t record something new someday (I sure hope he will at least). But, with Slash’s comment that the band is spending their time sprucing up CD holdovers, and with Absurd and HS featuring the same vocals available on the leaks, then believing that the next one in the chamber is Perhaps, Atlas, or SoG is a fairly reasonable assumption to make.

Yes, it's entirely plausible those will be the next songs released if we get more singles and not an entire album. Obviously some songs mean more to Axl. But the question (as far as the discussion with Pele goes) isn't what will be released next, the question is whether Axl has added vocals since ' 99 to songs we haven't heard. And going by the argument that Absurd and Hard Skool was released first because they meant a lot to Axl, and assuming some chronological plan behind the releases, then it is entirely plausible the next we will hear is other songs existing back in '99 with vocals before we get to newer songs. Personally, I am not sure we will get more singles, I lean towards the next being a full album, and then I expect it to contain a mix of songs dating back to '99 and after. I am sure a LOT has changed since that snapshot called Village leaks came to us. 

[SoulMonster]

18 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I agree with you, in general, on judging the quality of the tracks we’ve heard. I quite like Hard Skool and Absurd, and I think they’re both infinitely better than the leaked versions. My beef with the remaining tunes - and this is just a personal preference - is that I have a disdain for the mid-tempo type of tunes remaining on the leaks. Unless they drastically alter the rhythm sections of the remaining ones, then they probably just won’t be for me. Some people like IRS - I hate it. It’s not a ballad, it’s not super energetic, it’s sort of heavy but not really, it’s just in this sort of sludgy middle ground that I don’t like. Quicksong, Zodiac, SoG, Eye On You remind me of that.

I agree with what you are saying, but not that the mentioned songs fit the "mid-tempo" label. Quicksong is a thumper. It's a fast-paced riff, with some similarly upbeat vocals it will be a good, fast rocker. State of Grace is definitely slow at start, but works itself into an intense closure. It's a builder. And Eye on You is barely a rocker at all. If you judge it by any rock conventions it is an incomprehensible alien. It's not meant for headbanging but fucking.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

53 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, it's entirely plausible those will be the next songs released if we get more singles and not an entire album. Obviously some songs mean more to Axl. But the question (as far as the discussion with Pele goes) isn't what will be released next, the question is whether Axl has added vocals since ' 99 to songs we haven't heard. And going by the argument that Absurd and Hard Skool was released first because they meant a lot to Axl, and assuming some chronological plan behind the releases, then it is entirely plausible the next we will hear is other songs existing back in '99 with vocals before we get to newer songs. Personally, I am not sure we will get more singles, I lean towards the next being a full album, and then I expect it to contain a mix of songs dating back to '99 and after. I am sure a LOT has changed since that snapshot called Village leaks came to us. 

I, of course, would prefer an album as well. But I just don't see if coming - and if it ever does, not any time soon. Unless it's an entire album of reworked older songs. I just don't see the chronological order plan making much sense, considering Chinese Democracy features songs that date back to the '99 sessions (and TiL was written as early as 1993), but also feature songs from later studio sessions. Shackler's was the first song officially released, wasn't it? And isn't it technically the 'newest' of the bunch?

50 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I agree with what you are saying, but not that the mentioned songs fit the "mid-tempo" label. Quicksong is a thumper. It's a fast-paced riff, with some similarly upbeat vocals it will be a good, fast rocker.

The first 20 seconds of Quicksong are really interesting! *That riff* could make for an interesting, 'fast' rocker. But once the main riff kicks in, it loses all momentum and just devolves into a mid-tempo, bland dud. That's not a fast paced rocker.

54 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

State of Grace is definitely slow at start, but works itself into an intense closure. It's a builder.

Yeah, just not enough for me. By the time the payoff comes, it's too little, too late.

57 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And Eye on You is barely a rocker at all. If you judge it by any rock conventions it is an incomprehensible alien. It's not meant for headbanging but fucking.

Ooph. God bless the poor woman who agrees to fuck to that song.

[SoulMonster]

41 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I, of course, would prefer an album as well. But I just don't see if coming - and if it ever does, not any time soon. Unless it's an entire album of reworked older songs. I just don't see the chronological order plan making much sense, considering Chinese Democracy features songs that date back to the '99 sessions (and TiL was written as early as 1993), but also feature songs from later studio sessions. Shackler's was the first song officially released, wasn't it? And isn't it technically the 'newest' of the bunch?

Of course it will be an album of reworked older songs.

It doesn't make sense? Well, that's what Guns N' Roses excels at.

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course it will be an album of reworked older songs.

It doesn't make sense? Well, that's what Guns N' Roses excels at.

I think it's possible that Axl sacrificed some of the conventions of what is expected of a musician when it comes to music and making it a snapshot of a specific time in the band's journey in order to reach his own artistic goal which I believe is making sure he'll complete his project which is still Chinese Democracy and that's his first artistic priority.

in a way, looking back on how he assembled it and the approach he chose, it does make sense imo if the plan was to release more. So of course it's old material and I'm not trying to make excuses here cause maybe the band is still a vehicle for delivering the same songs he wanted to release for years and he slowly kept adding new ideas to it and this time it's just with this lineup and sometimes he makes a living by touring and gets sidetracked if it's really worth it for him like AC/DC for example. He also seems to be willing to look back a little with the box sets but on the grand scheme of things it's not the main event.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Rovim

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

17 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think it's possible that Axl sacrificed some of the conventions of what is expected of a musician when it comes to music and making it a snapshot of a specific time in the band's journey in order to reach his own artistic goal which I believe is making sure he'll complete his project which is still Chinese Democracy and that's his first artistic priority.

in a way, looking back on how he assembled it and the approach he chose, it does make sense imo if the plan was to release more. So of course it's old material and I'm not trying to make excuses here cause maybe the band is still a vehicle for delivering the same songs he wanted to release for years and he slowly kept adding new ideas to it and this time it's just with this lineup and sometimes he makes a living by touring and gets sidetracked if it's really worth it for him like AC/DC for example. He also seems to be willing to look back a little with the box sets but on the grand scheme of things it's not the main event.

Could be. I really hope that's the case. I have no problem banging my head against a wall trying to figure out the thinking process of an eccentric artist.

The pessimist in me, however, worries that these singles are just promotional vehicles for the tour. "Guns N' Roses releases new material" is a headline that'll get a lot of semi-interested clicks on a social media site or news aggregator. I can see many a casual fan clicking the link out of sheer curiosity, seeing tour dates in the body of the article, and then deciding maybe it'd be fun to get a babysitter for the night and going to see Axl, Slash, and Duff play Welcome to the Jungle and Sweet Child O' Mine. I'm worried that this is more "retirement windfall" and less artistry.

[Jw224]

It's been pretty obvious to me since 2016 that Axl is still set on doing what he has always intended to do. Every interview with Slash has talked about going through Axl's stuff, Axl himself has said he played them stuff that he has and they liked it and would see what they were interested in. It's been rather obvious that the band didn't suddenly change because Slash and Duff came back 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jw224