SoulMonster Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, jamillos said: I think we’ve been through this, or maybe it was someone else. Yes, that's my valid opinion. To me, the concept of a real creative entity entails a bit more than a guitarist inserting solos into the singer’s two-decade old demos created with/for essentially a completely different band. To me, it means coming up with new ideas while being in the same band at the same time, i.e. Slash creating brand new guitar parts and then sharing them with Axl, whether to write new lyrics or try using some of the existing ones. And vice versa, Axl giving Slash his lyrics (whether old or new) and Slash writing new music to it - but without being influenced by any existing music from the past era. And maybe sometimes the guys even jamming together, coming up with ideas and letting the magic flow. It’s not that difficult to understand what I mean; all I want is for them to work like other, normal bands in this regard, at least sometimes, even if just for a couple of new tunes. Nothing wrong with that. After all, I’ve always said I don’t believe for a second that Slash came back to his parent behemoth of a band only to keep polishing some unknown former members’ ideas. He’s too big of an icon to only resort to such activity. I think the difference is pretty clear to those who want to see it. Did you read my post? As I said, that's an entirely valid opinion to have. My point is, it doesn't matter what we call it (creative entity or not), what matters is what the band actually does, not what name we put on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Do you really think "of course they will" in terms of releasing an album? I think even an album of old CD leftovers is up for debate really, unless you're talking something when Axl has sadly passed and they open the vaults? No, I mean it. One argument is that these CD2/NuGNR demos are Axl’s baby from the difficult era, and I’d assume he wants them to see the light of day at some point and not let them go to waste (ha, at least not all of them, hopefully). Another argument would be that even if they just released these shelf songs without a single new track, this would play into the hands of Axl The Reluctant, who didn’t even have to set his foot in the studio for the last two singles, and so the rest of the record would most likely go down in a similar manner. He would get rid of the "new album" pressure and basically get two birds with one stone. Why wouldn’t he want to do it at least this way (of course, I shouldn’t forget to take into consideration that GNR are from Jupiter, while logic is from Mars)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 35 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Did you read my post? As I said, that's an entirely valid opinion to have. My point is, it doesn't matter what we call it (creative entity or not), what matters is what the band actually does, not what name we put on it. Well, just btw, we don’t know exactly the extent to which they create music together, because Slash only gives us tidbits; everything’s always shrouded in secrecy, and they may have worked on other material now and then, or perhaps may do it in the future; the info we have now is limited by what Axl wants (or in his case doesn’t want) to give away. But more importantly: you were questioning my using of the term creative entity and what I imagine under that. So I described to you the aspects that I consider important for someone to be called a creative entity. Then you twist it around, saying what matters is what the band actually does, not how we call it. Yeah but... my initial point still was that I wish they were also a real creative entity, which in my eyes means also creating fresh music together etc. That is the important factor to me. And if all they'll come up with is just an analogy of what they've done with the two singles, then that won't be a sign of a real creative entity to me, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, jamillos said: But more importantly: you were questioning my using of the term creative entity No, not at all Go back and read again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 54 minutes ago, jamillos said: No, I mean it. One argument is that these CD2/NuGNR demos are Axl’s baby from the difficult era, and I’d assume he wants them to see the light of day at some point and not let them go to waste (ha, at least not all of them, hopefully). Another argument would be that even if they just released these shelf songs without a single new track, this would play into the hands of Axl The Reluctant, who didn’t even have to set his foot in the studio for the last two singles, and so the rest of the record would most likely go down in a similar manner. He would get rid of the "new album" pressure and basically get two birds with one stone. Why wouldn’t he want to do it at least this way (of course, I shouldn’t forget to take into consideration that GNR are from Jupiter, while logic is from Mars)... Let me just stop you at "I'd assume he wants them to see the light of day at some point and not let them go to waste"..... I think one thing we can say, categorically, is that GNR is happy for material of any type to go to waste! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 32 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Let me just stop you at "I'd assume he wants them to see the light of day at some point and not let them go to waste"..... I think one thing we can say, categorically, is that GNR is happy for material of any type to go to waste! Yeah, I know... but I'm still this hopeless romantic and believe in some eventual... glimmer of common sense. Or determination. Nod to the legacy. I know, I know, but as one of my favourite tv characters said, I want to believe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, jamillos said: as one of my favourite tv characters said, I want to believe. I do too, but I'm turning into a Scully as the years pass. Would be very happy to be wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tboneman Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/never-again-longtime-fans-hit-out-at-red-hot-chili-peppers-over-sydney-set-list/news-story/130f0d1c173e1cd03b29fe8078380bb1 “Been their biggest fan all my life and after that concert would never go again. Played a few old songs but mostly new rubbish that no one knows. ” Gee. I wonder why older bands won't release or play new material. 😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Checked the setlists from both Sydney shows and that statement isn't true. Both nights more than half of the songs on the setlist were old songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, EvanG said: Checked the setlists from both Sydney shows and that statement isn't true. Both nights more than half of the songs on the setlist were old songs. just to add to what you said, even if it was true, every huge band like the RHCP got their casuals and more close minded fans or just fans who are not interested in new material. It doesn't mean that bands or solo musicans shouldn't release new albums and play the shit out of them if that's what they want to do imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 23 minutes ago, tboneman said: https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/never-again-longtime-fans-hit-out-at-red-hot-chili-peppers-over-sydney-set-list/news-story/130f0d1c173e1cd03b29fe8078380bb1 “Been their biggest fan all my life and after that concert would never go again. Played a few old songs but mostly new rubbish that no one knows. ” Gee. I wonder why older bands won't release or play new material. 😂 I don't like the RHCP, but we're at a sad state in culture when a band get slagged off by their fans for playing new material. If these people are so desperate for it to be the past, they could perhaps sit in their front room dressed in their teenage clothes watching DVDs of live performances from that time until their hearts content! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, allwaystired said: I don't like the RHCP, but we're at a sad state in culture when a band get slagged off by their fans for playing new material. If these people are so desperate for it to be the past, they could perhaps sit in their front room dressed in their teenage clothes watching DVDs of live performances from that time until their hearts content! honestly, there's a pretty nasty trend in recent years, even decades since the internet and technology really took off and gave voice to fans where a lot of fans are spoiled and want the same thing and bands (which I like) like Metallica for example are catering to their fans and won't take risks as much as they used to with their music or think way too hard and too much about what the fans want instead moving the fuck forward like I feel is the ideal way to do it if you're in a rock/metal band. It's like don't be a pussy and think about what will make you the most money and make your fans the most content, it goes against what rock n' roll is supposed to be and its cowardly. I wish RHCP got word of these lame ass fans and dropped all the hits and old songs from their setlist for a year and just played the new albums instead. So weak and pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweersa Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I wouldn't be surprised if they release a censored Kidz Bop version of CD2 before the actual album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gordon Comstock Posted February 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2023 37 minutes ago, tboneman said: https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/tours/never-again-longtime-fans-hit-out-at-red-hot-chili-peppers-over-sydney-set-list/news-story/130f0d1c173e1cd03b29fe8078380bb1 “Been their biggest fan all my life and after that concert would never go again. Played a few old songs but mostly new rubbish that no one knows. ” Gee. I wonder why older bands won't release or play new material. 😂 Their biggest fan doesn't know any of their new stuff? I'm so excited to be seeing them next month, it's great that they're playing so many new songs. They just debuted Carry Me Home last night, which is one of the best songs on their new album. The only issue with RHCP shows is that they play for about 1 hour 45 minutes... they could easily just do a greatest hits set, which is probably what most people at a stadium show expect, but it's nice to see a real band at that level changing their setlist every night and continuing to debut new songs. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingarthur Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said: Their biggest fan doesn't know any of their new stuff? I'm so excited to be seeing them next month, it's great that they're playing so many new songs. They just debuted Carry Me Home last night, which is one of the best songs on their new album. The only issue with RHCP shows is that they play for about 1 hour 45 minutes... they could easily just do a greatest hits set, which is probably what most people at a stadium show expect, but it's nice to see a real band at that level changing their setlist every night and continuing to debut new songs. I can’t imagine being a big Chili Peppers fan based solely on their pre-Californication releases as they made some terrible albums. Even Blood Sugar Sex Magic is highly overrated compared to what they do now. The point is, with the Chili Peppers, their “old stuff” really sucks and it’s a completely different sound altogether. Edited February 4, 2023 by smokingarthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 19 minutes ago, smokingarthur said: I can’t imagine being a big Chili Peppers fan based solely on their pre-Californication releases as they made some terrible albums. Even Blood Sugar Sex Magic is highly overrated compared to what they do now. The point is, with the Chili Peppers, their “old stuff” really sucks and it’s a completely different sound altogether. BSSM is a masterpiece imo. This shit is subjective, but I think it's the first time I've read anybody says it's overrated. RHCP is a band which has like a few different eras which are pretty different from one another so I think I understand where you're coming from though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabrph5 Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rovim said: BSSM is a masterpiece imo. This shit is subjective, but I think it's the first time I've read anybody says it's overrated. RHCP is a band which has like a few different eras which are pretty different from one another so I think I understand where you're coming from though. I am sort of in this camp. I really like the album, but enjoy the stiff after way better. Same with U2, hated them until the Joshua tree came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Just now, fabrph5 said: I am sort of in this camp. I really like the album, but enjoy the stiff after way better. Same with U2, hated them until the Joshua tree came out I think it's logical that that will happen with some fans of bands that develop and evolve with time, changing their sound in a pretty drastic way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 49 minutes ago, smokingarthur said: I can’t imagine being a big Chili Peppers fan based solely on their pre-Californication releases as they made some terrible albums. Even Blood Sugar Sex Magic is highly overrated compared to what they do now. The point is, with the Chili Peppers, their “old stuff” really sucks and it’s a completely different sound altogether. I agree BSSM isn't as good as their later stuff, but like you said it's a completely different sound. IMO their peak was Stadium Arcadium but the new albums are great too, especially Dream Canteen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said: I agree BSSM isn't as good as their later stuff, but like you said it's a completely different sound. IMO their peak was Stadium Arcadium but the new albums are great too, especially Dream Canteen. interesting how taste varies, also among RHCP fans. I think By The Way for example was way better than SA, but I guess every fan wants different elements to be more prominent maybe? but I'm probably derailing the thread now. Edited February 4, 2023 by Rovim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Rovim said: honestly, there's a pretty nasty trend in recent years, even decades since the internet and technology really took off and gave voice to fans where a lot of fans are spoiled and want the same thing and bands (which I like) like Metallica for example are catering to their fans and won't take risks as much as they used to with their music or think way too hard and too much about what the fans want instead moving the fuck forward like I feel is the ideal way to do it if you're in a rock/metal band. It's like don't be a pussy and think about what will make you the most money and make your fans the most content, it goes against what rock n' roll is supposed to be and its cowardly. I wish RHCP got word of these lame ass fans and dropped all the hits and old songs from their setlist for a year and just played the new albums instead. So weak and pathetic. I think it's nostalgia really. When it comes to music it's become massive- people don't want new and are almost angry when confronted with anything new. If you're interested in all this stuff there was a great book written about it all called 'Retromania' by a guy called Simon Reynolds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 minute ago, Rovim said: interesting how taste varies, also among RHCP. I think By The Way for example was way better than SA, but I guess every fan wants different elements to be more prominent maybe? but I'm probably derailing the thread now. Californication through SA was a great run of albums. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I think it's nostalgia really. When it comes to music it's become massive- people don't want new and are almost angry when confronted with anything new. If you're interested in all this stuff there was a great book written about it all called 'Retromania' by a guy called Simon Reynolds. humans have the tendency to gravitate towards what they know. Music is one of those things in life which is connected to personal experiences of the listener as well, and that falls under the definition of nostalgia. Thanks for the book suggestion. only way to fight the urge to be boring is, imo, for musicians to play what they want and to release the music they want to release. It might sound naive, cause gotta make a buck,. but if fans dictated what artists released, it would drain the life out of the music and nothing new would be accepted and have a chance to become classic imo. Edited February 4, 2023 by Rovim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAFC Nick Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 19 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said: The only issue with RHCP shows is that they play for about 1 hour 45 minutes... they could easily just do a greatest hits set, which is probably what most people at a stadium show expect, but it's nice to see a real band at that level changing their setlist every night and continuing to debut new songs. Yeah agree with this, only gripe is the length of the show. Think if you’re paying £100+ for a stadium show you should get a 2hr headline set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaguns1982 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Just a thought…. With how much cash they make you’d think slash could at least work on his solos to be closer to the album versions. Most bands play then flawlessly but slash just noodles about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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