The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[action]

9 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Really shocking even for Trump.

I read the US Constitution a while back. Loved all the anti-corruption stuff. Too bad they don't stick to it.

constitutions very rarely represent reality

the sovjet regime under stalin had a constitution. every word in it was dead letter, as the only law in the sovjet union that mattered, was what stalin decided every day he got out of bed. If you read the sovjet constituion, you would get the false impression that sovjet russia was a good place to live. nothing could be further from the truth.

but modern constitutions aren't much better. they provide various human rights. Such as, the right to self determination, the right of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc... We increasingly find these constitutional rights to become dead letter in our society.

france under the french revolution, had countless of constitutions replacing each other after a couple of months. They too, were dead letter.

So in effect, constitutions do not give an accurate image of the true situation in any given community. There is a huge difference in written law, and how law is applied in practice

always keep this in mind when reading constitutional law

Edited December 8, 2022 by action

[downzy]

Looks like the the federal grand jury called to determine whether Donald Trump deserves to be indicted (and on what charges) will remain in session until March of 2023.

I don’t see how indictments aren’t inevitable at this point.

Hopefully Trump sells enough digital trading cards to pay at least some of his legal bills.

Really starting to feel like Trump is done.  He’s now getting trounced by DeSantis in recent head to head polls.  I think his only chance of the nomination is if Republicans are dumb enough to run a large field of nominees.  Here’s your chance GOP: run DeSantis against Trump and turn your back on the anchor that is the former President. 

[Padme]

Republicans are a fuckin joke!!! 

And McCarthy maybe should step aside. And let someone else to run for speaker. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. Nobody in their right mind could vote for Republicans in 2 years. Unless there is some radical change

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

finally got a speaker of the house. A Republican. not good.

America has gone down hill so quickly since Trump was President.  And the whole world. It makes me sick to see how divided America is and continues to be. Not good at all.

[Jackie Moon]

On 11/17/2022 at 3:17 PM, downzy said:

Kari Lake is refusing to concede and will likely challenge the result of the race for Governor in Arizona:

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/17/lake-refuses-to-concede-indicates-possible-legal-challenge

 

first time i saw her speak, 5 seconds in I was like "oh fuck that's the devil"

She's terrifying, in like 12 different ways.

[downzy]

Once again, please do not post links to YouTube videos that are not owned by their content creators.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

You should watch that video you'll find it interesting.

What's the gist of it?

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'll PM it to you

Thanks for PM-ing the video, but I'd rather respond to your thoughts about the video, or your summary of it, then having to watch it. I don't want to discuss with Joe Rogan or Peterson, they are not members here as far as I know.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's 7mins 58 seconds. If you watch it, you then have the context of the discussion. I don't want to transcribe the video and even if I did that it removes some of the context.

I watched the first minute or so. So what's you are saying is that you are against gender-correcting surgery? Is that it?

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Only 1min or so of the 7min 58sec video? How dumb and pointless.

And no, that loaded oversimplification isn't it.

Alright, so what is it then?

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Watch the video clip and find out or don't watch it and don't find out.

Ok.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

 

Yeah, I'm definitely not going to sit through eight minutes of Rogan and Peterson discussing to find out what you think of a subject, something that could have taken me 10 seconds to read and you 30 seconds to type. 

[downzy]

8 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Sorry boss I keep thinking that just applies to music.

You should watch that video you'll find it interesting.

Also, that video had little to do with the topic of American politics.

[SoulMonster]

34 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

"I refuse to watch the 8min video I want to discuss with you. Instead, I'm going to spend more time than that, watching 1/8th of it and requesting you give a summarization of the video."

I feel this weird attitude does not bode well. It suggests I'm in for a disingenuous uphill battle of a one sided loaded conversation, to no end, just arguing for the sake of arguing. That doesn't appeal to me. I think the topic is important and genuinely think you and downzy would benefit from hearing the points raised in the video.

And for what it's worth, I've been good enough to read articles you and downzy post. But I suppose watching the video requires more effort if you guys truly hate Rogan and/or Peterson.

I have NEVER had any problems spending time to summarize my thoughts on any subject, and if I link to articles then that is just to substantiate what I say from more credible sources. I never argue through proxy.

Edited February 3, 2023 by SoulMonster

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm somebody who argues through proxy? I hope that's the full extent of your fantasizing lol.

No, I wouldn't say so, but there has been a few times where instead of actually saying what you mean you post videos or memes or whatever. I just found it funny you would compare this bad habit of yours with me using sources to back up my arguments. 

[downzy]

2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

It doesn't cover the entire spectrum of American politics. But it absolutely is within the scope and context of American politics.

Even if I could, I wouldn't try to hold guns to your heads and force you guys to watch the video so that you have the context for any following discussion. You're not obligated I suppose so I'll just accept that.

I did watch it, despite my low opinion of Jordan Peterson. 

Gender and gender politics aren't topics he has any formal training on.  He's leveraging his expertise in clinical psychology to push nonsense pseudoscience about other issues (climate change, social policies, politics, gender issues).  In my opinion he's a disingenuous, red-pilled asshole.  

Again, none of this or his video has anything to do with the topic of American politics.  Discussions of trans-gender issues belong elsewhere.  

[downzy]

10 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Thanks for actually watching it. Peterson has a very unfortunate voice but other than that I just don't see what you apparently see like I'm shocked by your wildly different take. 

Can you explain what you're saying? What is he wrong on? What has he said that's pseudo-science?

Peterson is far too binary in his thinking, taking complex concepts and issues and trivializing them via over-simplification and mischaracterization.  He's a perfect example of someone who has abandoned almost all of his academic principles and values for the sake of the grift, as he has a history of bilking his followers for "private sessions."  

And again, if his commentary was limited to the field he actually spent a lifetime studying, then I'd have no issue with him personally.  But he's not on Joe Rogan to discuss and present his findings on clinical psychology.  He's there to serve as a culture warrior using his credentials in an unrelated field to give him a platform he otherwise wouldn't otherwise have.  

In any event, this thread is about American politics.  I'm not going to spend much more time in this thread picking apart his opinion on the transgender people and their "reason" for being who they are.

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

Peterson is far too binary in his thinking, taking complex concepts and issues and trivializing them via over-simplification and mischaracterization. 

Ludicrous, he can and will try to explain things to a point where the average Joe understands but to claim he is trivialising complex matters is inane. Watch/read more.

 

2 hours ago, downzy said:

 he has a history of bilking his followers for "private sessions."  

..Source? 

 

2 hours ago, downzy said:

In any event, this thread is about American politics.  I'm not going to spend much more time in this thread picking apart his opinion on the transgender people and their "reason" for being who they are.

The transgender movement and identity politics is American politics.

Can't we just have a Politics thread..for everywhere.

[downzy]

11 minutes ago, Axls_Moustache_Rules said:

..Source? 

 

"... those who contributed $200 or more monthly to his Patreon account could also receive a 45-minute Skype session with him."

https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/jordan-peterson-seems-like-a-terrible-therapist.html

 

[downzy]

24 minutes ago, Axls_Moustache_Rules said:

The transgender movement and identity politics is American politics.

There's a discussion around the politics of trans-rights, but the video never really focused on that aspect.  Instead it was Peterson spewing his binary opinions to promote his hot takes on culture. 

Culture and politics are two different discussions.  

But this does bring up an interesting development in American politics.  As much as the right bemoans "identity politics," there is very little else to the present conservative movement in the US besides identity and discussions about culture.  It's no surprise that you're confusing culture with politics. 

Ask any prominent Republican politician what they want to achieve or do and their answer is almost always about fighting some sort of culture war.

Ask a well-known Democratic politician what the Democratic party wants to achieve and it's far more policy based (expand access and improve the quality of healthcare, pass maternity-care legislation, increase funding for K-12 education, launch a national day care program, limit and reverse the effects of climate change, etc.)

Republicans can't really fight Democrats on a policy basis anymore.  They will lose that fight.  So instead the shift the battle ground to matters of culture (push back against "woke" politics, ending cancel culture, eliminate critical race theory from schools).  Outside of "defend the border" (which, if you ask them what that actually means other than an ineffective wall, they don't have much in the way of specifics), there are few issues where Republicans offer any real tangible policy prescriptions for today's challenges.   

[downzy]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

I agree with that guy that this thread should just be "Politics"

Feel free to start one. 

Though I would ask you whether you're more interested in discussing politics or culture.  

[downzy]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Are you concerned about the balloon?

No, and I don't know why everyone is making an issue out of it. 

What is the balloon really going to learn that Chinese satellites aren't already going to tell them?

I think China is a big challenge for the US, but the way both Republicans and Democrats talk about the country, as if it's some existential threat, is ridiculous.  

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

There's a discussion around the politics of trans-rights, but the video never really focused on that aspect.  Instead it was Peterson spewing his binary opinions to promote his hot takes on culture. 

Culture and politics are two different discussions.  

But this does bring up an interesting development in American politics.  As much as the right bemoans "identity politics," there is very little else to the present conservative movement in the US besides identity and discussions about culture.  It's no surprise that you're confusing culture with politics. 

Ask any prominent Republican politician what they want to achieve or do and their answer is almost always about fighting some sort of culture war.

Ask a well-known Democratic politician what the Democratic party wants to achieve and it's far more policy based (expand access and improve the quality of healthcare, pass maternity-care legislation, increase funding for K-12 education, launch a national day care program, limit and reverse the effects of climate change, etc.)

Republicans can't really fight Democrats on a policy basis anymore.  They will lose that fight.  So instead the shift the battle ground to matters of culture (push back against "woke" politics, ending cancel culture, eliminate critical race theory from schools).  Outside of "defend the border" (which, if you ask them what that actually means other than an ineffective wall, they don't have much in the way of specifics), there are few issues where Republicans offer any real tangible policy prescriptions for today's challenges.   

Yeahh democrats never ever discuss Identity politics lol.

[-W.A.R-]

If all this over a hot air balloon imagine if China started militarily surrounding the US like the US is doing to them!

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Trump is already out on the road for the 2024 elections. I really hope someone finds something that will make it illegal for him to run for anything in government again. Let's see?

other Republicans are putting their hats in the ring too. Most of them no one has ever heard of. lol Not sure if that's good or bad?