downzy Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: The craziest thing about Q is that the person(s) behind haven't been doxed. Something this high profile going undoxed is unbelievable to me. US intelligence has to know who it is, if not, they are inept. I'm pretty sure Q has been doxed, though not affirmed by the government (which they wouldn't do since I don't think whoever Q is has actually committed a crime that's worth investigating). I believe he's this fat piece of shit (James Watkins): 11 hours ago, Padme said: They are inept. 9/11 showed how inept they are. It took them 10 years to find Bin Laden. And they didn't find him using sophisticated surveillace technology, just man hunting. They captured and tortured a bunch of people in order to get information I would push back on this. We've watched too many cyber spy thrillers that have led us to believe that the government can simply press a few buttons and find anything they want. It's hard work, especially those who know how to cover their tracks. Also, the information used to track down Osama bin Laden was not discovered through the use of torture. A three year Senate investigation into how Osama was discovered and caught revealed that the crucial intelligence was obtained by a source who provided the information well before any "enhanced" interrogation techniques were employed. The report made clear that any use of torture provided zero credible information that led to the discovery and capture of bin Laden. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/12/09/369646177/torture-report-did-harsh-interrogations-help-catch-osama-bin-laden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, downzy said: I'm pretty sure Q has been doxed, though not affirmed by the government (which they wouldn't do since I don't think whoever Q is has actually committed a crime that's worth investigating). I believe he's this fat piece of shit (James Watkins): I would push back on this. We've watched too many cyber spy thrillers that have led us to believe that the government can simply press a few buttons and find anything they want. It's hard work, especially those who know how to cover their tracks. Also, the information used to track down Osama bin Laden was not discovered through the use of torture. A three year Senate investigation into how Osama was discovered and caught revealed that the crucial intelligence was obtained by a source who provided the information well before any "enhanced" interrogation techniques were employed. The report made clear that any use of torture provided zero credible information that led to the discovery and capture of bin Laden. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/12/09/369646177/torture-report-did-harsh-interrogations-help-catch-osama-bin-laden They tortured people to get information. It doesn't matter if the information was credible. The key word is torture! They should use some other techniques https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-methods-waterboarding-sleep-deprivation The big failure of the intelligence agencies was the terrorist attact itself. How come they didn't have any clue? Already in 1993 there was a terrorist attact at the World Trade Center. Of course the magnitude was very small the first time around. But it was warning. Another big failure was the Oklahoma City bombing. But that one was domestic terrorism. Anyway they inept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Padme said: They tortured people to get information. It doesn't matter if the information was credible. The key word is torture! They should use some other techniques https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/cia-torture-methods-waterboarding-sleep-deprivation Yes, I'm not contesting that torture was used. But your previous post read as though information garnered to captured bin Laden came through torture. It did not. It's an important distinction. 3 hours ago, Padme said: The big failure of the intelligence agencies was the terrorist attact itself. How come they didn't have any clue? Already in 1993 there was a terrorist attact at the World Trade Center. Of course the magnitude was very small the first time around. But it was warning. Another big failure was the Oklahoma City bombing. But that one was domestic terrorism. Anyway they inept Again, I don't blame it on ineptitude. Read The Looming Towers by Lawrence Wright. That failure was largely due to bureaucratic and organizational problems, not one of idiots running around not knowing what they were doing. Stopping a terrorist attack prior to it happening isn't easy. It's incredibly hard. The totality of the efforts to uncover and thwart terrorist attacks should not be limited to one instance of failure. Mistakes and failures are going to happen. I'm not talking about what happened in Iraq which was a conscious decision that resulted in an utter disaster. But comments like "it took ten years to find Osama bin Laden" to support the notion that the entire US intelligence apparatus is a failure is absurd. Again, intelligence is incredibly hard. It's not what Hollywood makes it out to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 7 hours ago, Padme said: This!!! The best meme of them all!!! Guns N Bernie Now his name is "MEME Sanders" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 7 hours ago, downzy said: Yes, I'm not contesting that torture was used. But your previous post read as though information garnered to captured bin Laden came through torture. It did not. It's an important distinction. Again, I don't blame it on ineptitude. Read The Looming Towers by Lawrence Wright. That failure was largely due to bureaucratic and organizational problems, not one of idiots running around not knowing what they were doing. Stopping a terrorist attack prior to it happening isn't easy. It's incredibly hard. The totality of the efforts to uncover and thwart terrorist attacks should not be limited to one instance of failure. Mistakes and failures are going to happen. I'm not talking about what happened in Iraq which was a conscious decision that resulted in an utter disaster. But comments like "it took ten years to find Osama bin Laden" to support the notion that the entire US intelligence apparatus is a failure is absurd. Again, intelligence is incredibly hard. It's not what Hollywood makes it out to be. Well bureacratic and organizational problems leads to imcompetence and failure. Not everything went wrong. But there were a lot of mistakes to put it mild. 10 years to find Bin Laden it was way too long. Better later than never? I give you that. But they should get their act toghether. Hey! in the U.S. they are amazing compare to Europe when it comes to intelligence. But it's not that hard to be better than Europe. Again there were two attacts at the World Trade Center. This is not Hollywood. It's the former CIA director https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cia-torture-brennan-idUSKBN0JP29F20141211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Here it is the executive order a lot people in the Midwest were wating for. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-sign-buy-american-executive-order-monday-n1255487 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 31Illusions must be looking forward to March 4th https://www.vice.com/en/article/88akpx/qanon-thinks-trump-will-become-president-again-on-march-4?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, RussTCB said: 31Illusions must be looking forward to March 4th https://www.vice.com/en/article/88akpx/qanon-thinks-trump-will-become-president-again-on-march-4?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm It reminds me of these Doomsday prophets who tell everyone the world is ending on such and such a date, and then when nothing happens, they keep pushing the date back. I’m sure on March 5th there be a new date in April/May/June. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, downzy said: It reminds me of these Doomsday prophets who tell everyone the world is ending on such and such a date, and then when nothing happens, they keep pushing the date back. I’m sure on March 5th there be a new date in April/May/June. Exactly. It's yet another wonderful way the overall Trump experience compares to being a GN'R fan: Supporters have dropped to tiny numbers from where they started The supporters that are left are crazy for the most part Wild claims of more success than they're actually having are made regularly There's little to no reliable information The information that does become available always gets pushed back and excuses are made as to why Everyone associated with the leader gets thrown under the bus as soon as they leave ....I could go on and on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 34 minutes ago, RussTCB said: Exactly. It's yet another wonderful way the overall Trump experience compares to being a GN'R fan: Supporters have dropped to tiny numbers from where they started The supporters that are left are crazy for the most part Wild claims of more success than they're actually having are made regularly There's little to no reliable information The information that does become available always gets pushed back and excuses are made as to why Everyone associated with the leader gets thrown under the bus as soon as they leave ....I could go on and on. Maybe Trump had 8 million votes in escrow? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 I don't think Axl would like being compared to Trump. He hates the man's guts. Anyway, President Biden is trying to push ahead all the things he knows has to be better and move quicker. I do hope he gets the vaccines delivered quicker and Americans get the shots we need soon. People are still get sick and dying. There are hardly any ICU beds in Texas. And Texas has people with the mutant virus now too. If we don't slow this virus down, it'll keep mutating and the vaccines we have might not work. The doctors are only saying it "should" work, not that it definitely will work. Here we go again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/24/2021 at 1:28 PM, downzy said: I'm pretty sure Q has been doxed, though not affirmed by the government (which they wouldn't do since I don't think whoever Q is has actually committed a crime that's worth investigating). I believe he's this fat piece of shit (James Watkins): It could be this guy. Or it could have been someone or people within the Trump admin itself (like Ezra Cohen-Watnick). With the way Trump played footsie with it I wouldn't be shocked if some of his own guys were doing it. Either way, I'm still shocked at the lack of interest in the mainstream media from actually unmasking who was behind it. We're talking about a psy-op that got a large chunk of the Republican electorate believing it, and hyping up some of them to storm the capital. If it isn't newsworthy to determine who did this psy-op, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: It could be this guy. Or it could have been someone or people within the Trump admin itself (like Ezra Cohen-Watnick). With the way Trump played footsie with it I wouldn't be shocked if some of his own guys were doing it. Either way, I'm still shocked at the lack of interest in the mainstream media from actually unmasking who was behind it. We're talking about a psy-op that got a large chunk of the Republican electorate believing it, and hyping up some of them to storm the capital. If it isn't newsworthy to determine who did this psy-op, I don't know what is. Did you lose any sleep because you didn't know who Deep Throat was? Me neither. It is already sad and bad enough that there are people out there who believe that kind of crap. And it's even worst that some of them are elected officials. I don't want CNN to talk about them, that would be free advertising. I'm not even sure if it is a good idea for us to talk about those people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 15 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Either way, I'm still shocked at the lack of interest in the mainstream media from actually unmasking who was behind it There has been a lot of interest. I've probably read at least seven or eight articles that speculate who Q is. The problem is that until someone is willing to come forward with verifiable proof, there's no way for anyone in the media to state definitively who is Q. The best they can do is try to piece the puzzle together with the information they have on hand. That's why many media outlets have determined that Watkins is the most likely candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 18 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: I don't think Axl would like being compared to Trump. He hates the man's guts. No, I don't think anyone would appreciate such a comparion. That said, as different as the men are, there are some similarities. I can't recall the last time I read any statement by Axl where he takes any real ownership for the failures of Guns N' Roses. It's always someone else's fault. I believe his interview in the LA Times a few years ago where he used the analogy of being tripped on an airplane to underscore that any failures on his part have been the result of not him being able to perceive the ill intentions of others. Granted, this was just prior to the reunion so hopefully he's moved past some of the past acrimony and responsibility for the band's dissolution. And hopefully his public positions are just that, and he's a bit more humble in private. I've read similar comments about Trump, that there's a public and private persona, but in the last five to ten years the public has become dominant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Padme said: Did you lose any sleep because you didn't know who Deep Throat was? Me neither. It is already sad and bad enough that there are people out there who believe that kind of crap. And it's even worst that some of them are elected officials. I don't want CNN to talk about them, that would be free advertising. I'm not even sure if it is a good idea for us to talk about those people here. Totally different situation, apples and oranges. I think it would be very important to unmask who is behind it and embarrass the hell out of them, so they don't do it again, and give a dis-incentive for someone else to do this. I'd even try to throw some charges their way if I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Totally different situation, apples and oranges. I think it would be very important to unmask who is behind it and embarrass the hell out of them, so they don't do it again, and give a dis-incentive for someone else to do this. I'd even try to throw some charges their way if I could. There will always be all kind of conspiracy theories. And someone or a group of people will always be behind it. It is something that should be ignored. Don't give those people and their crap their 15 minutes. It's not worthy. As we can see nothing good come up with the attention they get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 7:31 PM, RussTCB said: Exactly. It's yet another wonderful way the overall Trump experience compares to being a GN'R fan: Supporters have dropped to tiny numbers from where they started The supporters that are left are crazy for the most part No offence, but this is a terrible analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, EvanG said: No offence, but this is a terrible analogy. How? Are all of those things not true about both GN'R and Trump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, RussTCB said: How? Are all of those things not true about both GN'R and Trump? No. And comparing Trump to a rock band in this situation is ludicrous. But I'll take it with a grain of salt, because I know how much you hate GnR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, EvanG said: No. And comparing Trump to a rock band in this situation is ludicrous. But I'll take it with a grain of salt, because I know how much you hate GnR. lolwut.....I don't hate GN'R. Also, I thought it was clear that my original post was made in a joking manner, but apparently not? Edited January 26, 2021 by RussTCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, RussTCB said: lolwut.....I don't hate GN'R. Also, I thought it was clear that my original post was made in a joking manner, but apparently not? You don't hate them? Well, you could have fooled me! And no, I didn't pick up on the joking manner, I'm not good at detecting irony this way, I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, EvanG said: You don't hate them? Well, you could have fooled me! And no, I didn't pick up on the joking manner, I'm not good at detecting irony this way, I guess. Being wildly disappointed in how poorly GN'R have handled their business and treated their fans is a completely different thing from hating them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, RussTCB said: Being wildly disappointed in how poorly GN'R have handled their business and treated their fans is a completely different thing from hating them. I guess hate is a strong word, but you have dedicated so much of your postcount taking stabs at them in the GnR section, so forgive me for thinking that you must really, really dislike them, and now you're even comparing them in here to that piece of shit and worst president ever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Now Congress is holding up the covid package because they don't want the minimum wage to go to $15 dollars an hour. Meanwhile, people are still waiting for unemployment benefits and waiting on line for vaccines, whenever we get them, and food. This is a big disgrace. I never thought I'd live to see this day in America. Maybe if Congress had their pay held up they would work faster. Or maybe they can donate food and rent money to the people who need it. Yeah right. One big "fuck you" to the people who are struggling each day while Congress does nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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