Covid-19 Thread

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, action said:

and my opinion on corona is based on the two years we're living with it, and the daily intake of information on the subject. Information, as defined by the greek, that is.

I told you this, but you still accuse me of a lack of knowledge.

While you, you base your statement on "reading my posts for quite a few years", even if you haven't met  me in real life for five minutes. Even though, you lack any knowledge on my education.

Where is your knowledge about me?

What I wanna show you, is that your opinion on me, is based on not much more information, than my opinion on corona.

Ok, I wasn't going to respond anymore because we're running in circles, but fine, I'll bite.
Look, it's really simple. I base this on the fact that I know you're not a scientist. You've mentioned your profession on here once. That doesn't mean you can't know a lot about it, but combined with the fact that a lot of what you type regarding this subject is factually incorrect makes me say this. That clearly shows me that you don't have a lot of knowledge about this. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to offend you or anything, I am sure you're a very smart person and all, but regarding this subject you seem to be rather ignorant. But you're going to disagree and type a huge post again that doesn't make any sense, so again... let's leave it that. Pretty please?

[action]

it is natural to hate on the one sheep of the cattle, that deviates from the herd

freedom of speech and freedom of thought, implies freedom

most people hate freedom. Freedom means, you need to put in effort. It's much easier, when you are "told" what to do. Someone else takes responsability for your problems. When unrest and uncertainty in society is at high levels, people basically beg for less freedom and more control from above (we want a lockdown, we want offenders to be severely punished, antivaxxers need to be "abführed").

A human being just can not cope with fear of the unknown. 

When all is well in the land, dictators aren't needed.

When you have a country like Iraq, you see juicy figures like saddam hussein leading the country with a strong hand. But that's because, most people let him be. When people feel things go well, a dictator becomes unwanted and he's dethroned.

"a scientific narrative" that pretends to offer a solution to a virus, is like a kiss of blissfull certainty. People are more than willing to give in to freedoms, as a cost to pay for more certainty.

If then, an individual goes against this narrative, you see a lot of hate arise. Such people are called "trolls", and people want them removed.

it is all very predictable, and very typical of human nature. 

[Rovim]

15 minutes ago, action said:

it is natural to hate on the one sheep of the cattle, that deviates from the herd

freedom of speech and freedom of thought, implies freedom

most people hate freedom. Freedom means, you need to put in effort. It's much easier, when you are "told" what to do. Someone else takes responsability for your problems. When unrest and uncertainty in society is at high levels, people basically beg for less freedom and more control from above (we want a lockdown, we want offenders to be severely punished, antivaxxers need to be "abführed").

A human being just can not cope with fear of the unknown. 

When all is well in the land, dictators aren't needed.

When you have a country like Iraq, you see juicy figures like saddam hussein leading the country with a strong hand. But that's because, most people let him be. When people feel things go well, a dictator becomes unwanted and he's dethroned.

"a scientific narrative" that pretends to offer a solution to a virus, is like a kiss of blissfull certainty. People are more than willing to give in to freedoms, as a cost to pay for more certainty.

If then, an individual goes against this narrative, you see a lot of hate arise. Such people are called "trolls", and people want them removed.

it is all very predictable, and very typical of human nature. 

no one hates you, just chill man. It's not supposed to be so combative, it's more fun to be more open about some polarizing topics I think without taking shit personally or trying to get a reaction from everyone. If you respect my opinion, I'll respect yours.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

I remember him saying his wife asked him to actually help around the house and he stonewalled her and told her gleefully to not sweat the small stuff. Lmfao.

So if the poor woman currently married to him can't get through, a bunch of strangers on the internet who think he's a ridiculous mental-midget probably won't.

that woman is a saint

Edited June 20, 2022 by Rovim

[Whiskey Rose]

If Soulmonster would quit ‘pouncing’ on Action since he has done since the beginning of this pandemic ( even though original scientific consensus about the virus and how to stop it has been ratified since 2020 ) then Action probably wouldn’t feel the need to double down quite as strongly as he does. 
Just my two cents but carry on 

[action]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

If Soulmonster would quit ‘pouncing’ on Action since he has done since the beginning of this pandemic ( even though original scientific consensus about the virus and how to stop it has been ratified since 2020 ) then Action probably wouldn’t feel the need to double down quite as strongly as he does. 
Just my two cents but carry on 

soulmonster sure can get away with more stuff that I would get warning points for. far, far more.

But ok, that's just the inner workings of this little community. favoritism exists everywhere.

I sure as hell won't take his insults like a wet bag of rice anymore. I'll give it back to him whenever he lashes out, and if I get another warning, then that's the last you'll ever see of me on this board.

But he is not the reason I post so much lately.

I post, because I have read a lot of great books lately, which have inspired me to look at things in a fresh new way, and I use this board as drawing paper to formulate my own take on things. I am writing a book myself, and these posts will form the basis for that.

I like to formulate thought in the form of "dialogues", like plato did. I find it difficult however, to engage in dialogue without a speaking partner, so when posting on this board there is some form of dialogue happening, which channels my own thoughts.

[Whiskey Rose]

Ah, ok. That makes sense. See people? There is always a reason for things, not just necessarily being a ‘troll.’

@action I wish society these days coykd accept when others have differing opinions, without changing how we feel about that person in their ‘entirety’. It’s like we overlook all their good qualities if they don’t share the same view on things that we give great credence to. 
Also, it can be very hard to admit we were wrong about something, or that our opinion about something has changed or evolved. So then we pretend we never had that former opinion at all! But it’s ok to change our minds on things. 

[action]

2 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Ah, ok. That makes sense. See people? There is always a reason for things, not just necessarily being a ‘troll.’

@action I wish society these days coykd accept when others have differing opinions, without changing how we feel about that person in their ‘entirety’. It’s like we overlook all their good qualities if they don’t share the same view on things that we give great credence to. 
Also, it can be very hard to admit we were wrong about something, or that our opinion about something has changed or evolved. So then we pretend we never had that former opinion at all! But it’s ok to change our minds on things. 

mark twain said something along the lines of "it's far easier to fool someone, than to realise how you were fooled yourself" 

[action]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Nah, even when action is handled with kid gloves and you're patient with him it's completely unappreciated. He invents irrational imaginings in order to spiral aimlessly more and more up his own ass. He's a bitter resentful Stan of SoulMonster and me as well actually lol. He apparently has a lot to prove and fails miserably so everyone else is the problem, it's never enough no matter how feeble and wrong he is; so he resorts to trolling - so people care even less than they already did about what he has to say.

Regarding SoulMonster, he's a decent guy, mostly knows what he's talking about. He can be extremely stubborn and pedantic, which is annoying but nobody's perfect. Does that mean we should all endlessly cry and piss our pants, like action? I don't think so. And I say this despite SoulMonster turning on me a while back to my surprise, making wildly inaccurate assumptions.

we just listened to oldest goat's somewhat pointless resume on two characters of the board, because everyone interested has read our posts anyway, and the rest couldn't give a rat's ass

Besides,

I trust, people are more interested in the opinions, rather than the poster. Unless, people think a talking fox and a talking weeping sun is somehow very important to their lives. But even then, if people want our opinions, a resume of you would be redundant and frankly I would feel a bit awkward with all that attention.

so far, that's been your input on the topic. bitching and moaning. People see that too.

[Whiskey Rose]

23 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Nah

How.Dare.You

I didn't even read the rest 

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, action said:

soulmonster sure can get away with more stuff that I would get warning points for. far, far more.

But ok, that's just the inner workings of this little community. favoritism exists everywhere.

I sure as hell won't take his insults like a wet bag of rice anymore. I'll give it back to him whenever he lashes out, and if I get another warning, then that's the last you'll ever see of me on this board.

But he is not the reason I post so much lately.

I post, because I have read a lot of great books lately, which have inspired me to look at things in a fresh new way, and I use this board as drawing paper to formulate my own take on things. I am writing a book myself, and these posts will form the basis for that.

I like to formulate thought in the form of "dialogues", like plato did. I find it difficult however, to engage in dialogue without a speaking partner, so when posting on this board there is some form of dialogue happening, which channels my own thoughts.

Ah, your long-awaited "Book of Whisdom". Still working on the first paragraph? 

2 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

If Soulmonster would quit ‘pouncing’ on Action since he has done since the beginning of this pandemic ( even though original scientific consensus about the virus and how to stop it has been ratified since 2020 ) 

Are you claiming the consensus on how to stop the virus has changed dramatically? As far as I am concerned, it has always been about vaccines and it had never really been about stopping the virus but mitigating disease. 

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Ah, ok. That makes sense. See people? There is always a reason for things, not just necessarily being a ‘troll.’

@action I wish society these days coykd accept when others have differing opinions, without changing how we feel about that person in their ‘entirety’. It’s like we overlook all their good qualities if they don’t share the same view on things that we give great credence to. 

This is a discussion forum. We don't meet people here, we meet their opinions. For all I know action is an okay human being in real life, but I don't know and I don't care. His opinions, thoughts and ideas are regularly half-baked if not entirely wrong and he seems to cherish the opportunity to spread falsehoods and outright lies. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about that, especially in a discussion literally about life and death, and we should never let this go uncontested because maybe, just maybe, he is okay outside of the forum. 

[31illusions]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

This is a discussion forum. We don't meet people here, we meet their opinions.

Can I give my opinion, is that okay?

-I'm against masks, lock downs, vaccinations.

-Covid vaccinations prevent virtually nothing.

-The main stream media are liars.

-Wokeism will destroy our country if we don't stop it.

-There are only 2 genders.

-Democrats are the party of Satan.

-Trump is coming back!

So there you have it. The truth is now out there. Learn it.. love it.. Live it.

 

 

[Whiskey Rose]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

This is a discussion forum. We don't meet people here, we meet their opinions. For all I know action is an okay human being in real life, but I don't know and I don't care. His opinions, thoughts and ideas are regularly half-baked if not entirely wrong and he seems to cherish the opportunity to spread falsehoods and outright lies. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about that, especially in a discussion literally about life and death, and we should never let this go uncontested because maybe, just maybe, he is okay outside of the forum. 

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea how this pertains to what I said about society. 

But yes, this is a discussion forum..not a medical protocol forum. 

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, 31illusions said:

Can I give my opinion, is that okay?

-I'm against masks, lock downs, vaccinations.

-Covid vaccinations prevent virtually nothing.

-The main stream media are liars.

-Wokeism will destroy our country if we don't stop it.

-There are only 2 genders.

-Democrats are the party of Satan.

-Trump is coming back!

So there you have it. The truth is now out there. Learn it.. love it.. Live it.

 

 

You are a caricature

[action]

7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

This is a discussion forum. We don't meet people here, we meet their opinions. For all I know action is an okay human being in real life, but I don't know and I don't care. His opinions, thoughts and ideas are regularly half-baked if not entirely wrong and he seems to cherish the opportunity to spread falsehoods and outright lies. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about that, especially in a discussion literally about life and death, and we should never let this go uncontested because maybe, just maybe, he is okay outside of the forum. 

i have no problem with discussion whatsoever

as some of you know, I frequent other boards too. And while the people there are much friendlier than you for example, being too friendly can have the downside of creating an echo chamber. Which in turn, is detrimental to the quality of my "dialogues". The quality of my book (I'm currently at page 151 of 400) would suffer, if my opinions are not challenged enough. Dialogues, like Plato practised, can lead to a better form of knowledge than singular thought, but the condition is that the opposition is strong enough.

that is different than merely calling people moronic. This is opposition too, but not very beneficial to "the birth of new insights". But it's not me who can change that. That's the task of the mods.

Edited June 21, 2022 by action

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, 31illusions said:

-Covid vaccinations prevent virtually nothing.

Except for the overwhelming abundance of evidence proving that it prevents serious illness from Covid-19 infections. 

Unvaccinated 11 times more likely to die from Covid-19, CDC study shows - CNN

[action]

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Except for the overwhelming abundance of evidence proving that it prevents serious illness from Covid-19 infections. 

Unvaccinated 11 times more likely to die from Covid-19, CDC study shows - CNN

where can I review this study? is it published?

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, action said:

where can I review this study? is it published?

Yes, but I couldn't find it on the CDC webpage, likely because it has been relaced with newer studies like this: Clinical severity of, and effectiveness of mRNA vaccines against, covid-19 from omicron, delta, and alpha SARS-CoV-2 variants in the United States: prospective observational study | The BMJ

Here's an overview of the CDC studies: CDC COVID Data Tracker: Vaccine Effectiveness

[action]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, but I couldn't find it on the CDC webpage, likely because it has been relaced with newer studies like this: Clinical severity of, and effectiveness of mRNA vaccines against, covid-19 from omicron, delta, and alpha SARS-CoV-2 variants in the United States: prospective observational study | The BMJ

Here's an overview of the CDC studies: CDC COVID Data Tracker: Vaccine Effectiveness

thanks

it's a maze, but look what I found in an original study, summarised on your site:

"Previous infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has been estimated to confer up to 90% protection against reinfection, although this protection was lower against the Omicron variant compared with that against other SARS-CoV-2 variants (1–3)."

Effectiveness of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination in Preventing COVID-19–Associated Hospitalization Among Adults with Previous SARS-CoV-2 Infection — United States, June 2021–February 2022 (cdc.gov)

first line of the article

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, action said:

thanks

it's a maze, but look what I found in an original study, summarised on your site:

"Previous infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has been estimated to confer up to 90% protection against reinfection, although this protection was lower against the Omicron variant compared with that against other SARS-CoV-2 variants (1–3)."

Effectiveness of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination in Preventing COVID-19–Associated Hospitalization Among Adults with Previous SARS-CoV-2 Infection — United States, June 2021–February 2022 (cdc.gov)

first line of the article

My site? 

Did you not know that past infections with a viral disease offer protection against new infections? That's how the immune system works. And this is what we exploit in vaccinations when we inoculate people with a fake virus to stimulate a similar immune system boost, thus offering protection against the disease with no risk. 

[action]

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

My site? 

Did you not know that past infections with a viral disease offer protection against new infections? That's how the immune system works. And this is what we exploit in vaccinations when we inoculate people with a fake virus to stimulate a similar immune system boost, thus offering protection against the disease with no risk. 

yeah, I "knew" that. it's been my fucking point all along. natural immunity as a strategy to combat subsequent infections. 

I didn't know exactly "how" strong the protection would be, but now I've got it in numbers - 90% - and that's in a scientific article from a site that you endorse.

Needless to say, I'll continue to do as usual. 

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, action said:

yeah, I "knew" that. it's been my fucking point all along. natural immunity as a strategy to combat subsequent infections. 

So your brilliant idea is to infect yourself with the disease because then you get protection from subsequent infections?

Want to try again? 

[action]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So your brilliant idea is to infect yourself with the disease because then you get protection from subsequent infections?

Want to try again? 

how would I infect myself lol? you act like there is some kind of virus jab.

As you know well enough, I was naturally infected with corona, pretty early on. That was my natural infection, why would I need to infect myself again?

My GP told me, "you got lucky, you wont get corona again". Him being a GP, he understood the most basic thing about viruses: an infection grants natural immunity, something which has been reaffirmed in the article I quoted (90% protection against re-infection).

I have read the article a bit further¹, and it continues to clarify, that vaccines and boosters, also work better when a natural infection has occurred somewhere along the line. Vaccination, without natural infection, works significantly less effective.

My objection then is, if vaccination is supposed to protect from infection, and a vaccine works less well without prior infection, does the vaccine impair itself this way? The article confirms, that the best protection comes from vaccines AND natural infection. So my conclusion then is, don't put all your money on vaccination alone

^{1 quote:} Immunity from previous SARS-CoV-2 infection wanes over time (1,8) and was lower against the Omicron variant compared with immunity against other virus variants (2). However, protection is estimated to have remained stable against SARS-CoV-2 reinfection leading to hospitalization or death (2). Previous studies have indicated that, in general, protection by a hybrid of infectioninduced and vaccination-induced immunity is superior to that from either alone and is less likely to wane over time (1,8). Compared with unvaccinated persons without previous infection, persons with a booster dose of mRNA vaccine have been estimated to have 90% protection against hospitalization with COVID-19 during the Omicron period; the highest estimated protection was among vaccinated persons with previous infection

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, action said:

how would I infect myself lol? you act like there is some kind of virus jab.

As you know well enough, I was naturally infected with corona, pretty early on. That was my natural infection, why would I need to infect myself again?

But you have been arguing against vaccination and claiming that people should just go for natural immunity, which is incredibly stupid and reckless. And here's why:

It is the first-time infection that kills you, not the second time you get the infection or the third. It is when your immune system is not at all prepared you may get seriously sick and may die, not when you get infected again and have a primed immune system from the first infection. So when it comes to protection against infectious diseases, it is really about protecting yourself from the first infection. And that's what vaccination does, it gives you a safe first infection (the vaccination). 

Do you understand this?