SoulMonster Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, action said: at least I didn't say "rDNA" That's actually a thing in contrast to "MRNA". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31illusions Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, action said: , so here they are, my credentials: - corona investigator - MRNA vaccine investigator - immunology investigator - female body expert - sandwich expert - master in chickenology - former quantum mechanics and uncertainty theory investigator - former elementary particle researcher - junior ukrainian war researcher - christianity hobbyist - mask and lockdown sceptic - mygnr poster - rock n roll commentologist - toxic masculine culture enthusiast So I post these once, and never again. I love it how you fight bullshit with bullshit. lol. I approve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dazey Posted June 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, 31illusions said: I love it how you fight bullshit with bullshit. lol. I approve. I love how you follow stupid with stupid. 😂 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31illusions Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Dazey said: I love how you follow stupid with stupid. 😂 Awe. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I adore your epigone of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 6 hours ago, 31illusions said: Awe. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I adore your epigone of me. speaking of panties, got to keep a secure hold of them, when Dazey is near Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Oldest Goat said: Stupid like a fox, no doubt. Like a Fox News. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 The Dallas morning news had an article about how people are cutting back again in eating out and going to big events due to the rise in covid again. My daughter gets her booster tomorrow. I know by the time Fall comes around we will need a covid booster as well as a flu shot. it'll just be a fact of life for those who get vaccinations. Just hope it doesn't get out of hand again, but then again, China has been on lockdown for over a month now and the shelves in the supermarkets re getting bare again. Gas and food prices are way up. it's getting so out of hand. it's like since covid everything has gone from bad to worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31illusions Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: The Dallas morning news had an article about how people are cutting back again in eating out and going to big events due to the rise in covid again. My daughter gets her booster tomorrow. I know by the time Fall comes around we will need a covid booster as well as a flu shot. it'll just be a fact of life for those who get vaccinations. Just hope it doesn't get out of hand again, but then again, China has been on lockdown for over a month now and the shelves in the supermarkets re getting bare again. Gas and food prices are way up. it's getting so out of hand. it's like since covid everything has gone from bad to worse. Go outside, Breathe the fresh air. Get Covid, Like everyone else. It will boost your immunity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, 31illusions said: Go outside, Breathe the fresh air. Get Covid, Like everyone else. It will boost your immunity! great minds think alike also, another thing we can do to "flatten the curve", is to never get tested. Not getting tested, means no positive results, which will eventually show in the numbers. I was having a troat ache last week, and a running nose. I stayed home voluntarily for a day, but did not get tested. A test is, after all, not a cure. Well, fast forward 5 days and my symptoms are gone, I wasn't too sick (not more than a regular cold, and that was without ever having received a single corona jab) and I did my share in flattening the curve. this is my idea of good citizenship Edited June 20, 2022 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) in our society, statistics have replaced reality, and are elevated to the level of "the facts" in a world where there is an increasing need for absolute numbers and measurements (measuring is knowing), statistics act like a drug to address the uncertainty and fear of the common people. People see curves going up and down, and that's all they need to know. It is a form of sign language, that is common to the animal world. In the animal world, signs have definite meanings, like "danger", "ready to mate", etc. Humans have lost the ability of this form of clear communicating, the day language was invented. Words can have a million different meanings, but curves not. Either they are up, or down. A binary language system. Hence, the blind belief in statistics. But, as my previous (somewhat flippant) post has illustrated; statistics are NOT to be replacing the facts. Statistics are always highly inaccurate. You see infections rise, when testing accelerates. But do the numbers rise, because there are more infections, or because there is more testing? These questions are not addresses in the "curve". What about people like me, who show symptoms but dont get tested? They wont be translated in the "curve" either. Does "the curve" tell us something about severity of symptoms? Again, no. You see these curves go up, but for all we know, all these people may show mild symptoms. Information, that is unaccounted for, in "the curve" Edited June 20, 2022 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 2/25/2020 at 9:06 AM, action said: as for vaccins? I look at them like "perks" in a video game, like upgrades to your character. "Now, you're immune to flu" or something. So I've had every vaccin you can think of, I even asked my doctor which diseases I could vaccine for otherwise. "hepatitis", he said. So I've got a vaccin for that too. I feel like some kind of superman now. How you can go from that sentiment to being such an anti-vaxxer now is quite astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, EvanG said: How you can go from that sentiment to being such an anti-vaxxer now is quite astounding. it's even more astounding, when a scientist, basing themselves on a "worldwide consensus", goes from "masks are for morons" to "250 euro fine if you dont wear a mask" I'm not an expert. I have the luxury of the right to make mistakes. From science, we expect better. More so, when wrong scientific advice is the cause of millions in economic and human damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, EvanG said: How you can go from that sentiment to being such an anti-vaxxer now is quite astounding. Because what matters more is not the truth and integrity but being contrary. He would wear masks when it was a moronic thing to do and be against masks when it made sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, action said: I'm not an expert. I have the luxury of the right to make mistakes. Of course you do. I wouldn't expect anything else. However you always seem to go from one extreme to another and that's so fascinating. Like you, I don't know anything about this stuff either. I was sceptical too in the beginning regarding these vaccines. Like, is it safe because they're relatively new? Do I really need it because I don't belong to any risk groups? But considering almost all the smart people in the world who do know what they're talking about, unlike you and I, assured me it's safe and the way to move forward, then who the heck am I to disagree? Doesn't mean I don't have questions or accept everything blindly, but it contributed to my decision to getting vaccinated. You basically went from ''I'm getting all the vaccines in the world'' to ''get sick, let your immune system handle it'' and completely ignoring all the scientific proof. Crazy! Edited June 20, 2022 by EvanG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 minute ago, EvanG said: Of course you do. I wouldn't expect anything else. However you always seem to go from one extreme to another and that's so fascinating. Like you, I don't know anything about this stuff either. I was sceptical too in the beginning regarding these vaccines. Like, is it safe because they're relatively new? Do I really need it because I don't belong to any risk groups? But considering almost all the people in the world, who do know what they're talking about unlike you and I, assured me it's safe and the way to move forward, then who the heck am I to disagree? Doesn't mean I don't have questions or accept everything blindly, but it contributed to my decision to getting vaccinated. You basically went from ''I'm getting all the vaccines in the world'' to ''get sick, let your immune system handle it'' and completely ignoring all the scientific proof. Crazy! speculation: it's not just about his opinions, it's about getting attention to fuel his ego and contribute for his sense of self worth. His position is secondary to what and how many responses he can get, even online. A lot of people are like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, EvanG said: Of course you do. I wouldn't expect anything else. However you always seem to go from one extreme to another and that's so fascinating. Like you, I don't know anything about this stuff either. I was sceptical too in the beginning regarding these vaccines. Like, is it safe because they're relatively new? Do I really need it because I don't belong to any risk groups? But considering almost all the smart people in the world who do know what they're talking about, unlike you and I, assured me it's safe and the way to move forward, then who the heck am I to disagree? Doesn't mean I don't have questions or accept everything blindly, but it contributed to my decision to getting vaccinated. You basically went from ''I'm getting all the vaccines in the world'' to ''get sick, let your immune system handle it'' and completely ignoring all the scientific proof. Cazy! I'm not sure I "always" go from one extreme to another, but for arguments sake, lets suppose I am there are many people (scientists or not), who go from one extreme to another. People who have an opinion, tend to believe in it very enthusiastically. Except for the sheep, who follow the consensus. Of those, there are many too. It absolutely is a quality, if you evolve your opinion over time, under the influence of new information. Information changes all the time. We live in an age, where everything is rapidly evolving. Not in the least, about the corona virus. Yes, I went from one extreme to another. I dont deny that. My problem is with scientists, who do the same, but who do not accept criticism about their opinions, even though their own opinions change over time too. Edited June 20, 2022 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, action said: I'm not sure I "always" go from one extreme to another, but for arguments sake, lets suppose I am there are many people (scientists or not), who go from one extreme to another. People who have an opinion, tend to believe in it very enthusiastically. Except for the sheep, who follow the consensus. Of those, there are many too. It absolutely is a quality, if you evolve your opinion over time, under the influence of new information. Information changes all the time. We live in an age, where everything is rapidly evolving. Not in the least, about the corona virus. Yes, I went from one extreme to another. I dont deny that. My problem is with scientists, who do the same, but who do not accept criticism about their opinions, even though their own opinions change over time too. I agree that it's good to be able to change your opinion when there's new information. But regarding something like what we are talking about, the fact of the matter is that you don't know a lot about it. Right? I mean, I don't believe you're a scientist or doctor and except for what you read online and hear on TV, I don't think you know a lot about any of this. And neither do I, obviously. So it is great to believe in something enthusiastically, as you put it, but seeing as there is so much within this subject that you lack knowledge on, it's strange to me that there's no nuance, no grey, at all in your opinions. It's either black or white, and yes, on this forum I've seen you apply this approach to other topics as well. And that approach is great if you know everything there is to know, but you don't. So you could choose to be more modest, like most average joes out there, who listen to both sides and then form an opinion with modesty seeing as they don't know enough about it to go extreme in their opinion. That is where I stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, EvanG said: I agree that it's good to be able to change your opinion when there's new information. But regarding something like what we are talking about, the fact of the matter is that you don't know a lot about it. Right? I mean, I don't believe you're a scientist or doctor and except for what you read online and hear on TV, I don't think you know a lot about any of this. And neither do I, obviously. So it is great to believe in something enthusiastically, as you put it, but seeing as there is so much within this subject that you lack knowledge on, it's strange to me that there's no nuance, no grey, at all in your opinions. It's either black or white, and yes, on this forum I've seen you apply this approach to other topics as well. And that approach is great if you know everything there is to know, but you don't. So you could choose to be more modest, like most average joes out there, who listen to both sides and then form an opinion with modesty seeing as they don't know enough about it to go extreme in their opinion. That is where I stand. what is "knowing about"? see above what I posted, about the rose paradox I Have experienced corona for 2 years, spoken to many people who got the vaccine, and those who didn't, seeing the side effects not on the fox news, but in reality, and countless upon countless of other sources of information, not limited to the closed academic world and their exclusive scientific papers. All of that "does" acount for something. Try teach a carpenter how to build a house, just from books. I wouldn't wanna live in it. There is a large body of knowledge, that is necessary to make the right decisions in life, that goes well and beyond the scope of any scientific experiment / article. This has well been my continuous stance on this board, and this has "not" evolved over time. The principle, that not all knowledge comes from books, and not all knowledge can be "fit" into books. So much information is impossible to quantify. It is the realm of poetry. But it is as much a part of reality, than all the statitstics combined Edited June 20, 2022 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, action said: what is "knowing about"? see above what I posted, about the rose paradox I Have experienced corona for 2 years, spoken to many people who got the vaccine, and those who didn't, seeing the side effects not on the fox news, but in reality, and countless upon countless of other sources of information, not limited to the closed academic world and their exclusive scientific papers. All of that "does" acount for something. Try teach a carpenter how to build a house, just from books. I wouldn't wanna live in it. There is a large body of knowledge, that is necessary to make the right decisions in life, that goes well and beyond the scope of any scientific experiment / article. This has well been my continuous stance on this board, and this has "not" evolved over time. The principle, that not all knowledge comes from books, and not all knowledge can be "fit" into books. So much information is impossible to quantify. It is the realm of poetry. But it is as much a part of reality, than all the statitstics combined By Jove you are ignorant about science and scientists! There is nothing closed about the scientific world in regards to Covid-19, almost all the relevant papers, including clinical trial data, are open access publications. You just need the link and then you can gorge yourself on all we know about this disease. The fact that you aren't capable to understand the contents of these publications, on the other hand, doesn't mean that it is part of a closed "academic world", it just means you aren't capable. And scientists don't just learn from books and that it isn't a practical field as you imply. Science is very much a practical thing; science is about testing hypotheses in (usually) practical experiments. It is hands on research. Like when Covid-19 vaccines where tested, they were tried on tens of thousands of people of different age, gender, life style, occupation, ethnicity, etc, and that's equivalent to a carpenter testing out different building techniques on tens of thousands of houses with different material, altitude, ground topography etc. When we talk about the statistics of Covid-19, those statistics are based on these actual experiments and testing. It isn't just numbers you don't understand in "books". It is the summary of an enormous amount of actual experimental testing. Do you honestly believe scientists just sit around and write books about what they believe? As for your latest suggestion that there are relevant knowledge pertaining to Covid-19 that can't be quantified or can't be described in books, that just sounds like a stupid cop-out from a guy who realizes he is making an ass out of himself. As for there being a "large body of knowledge, that is necessary to make the right decisions in life, that goes well and beyond the scope of any scientific experiment / article" eh, yes? Science isn't about to figure out your life decisions. Science don't really care about you, @action, just like everybody else. Science is a process to create knowledge about our world, not provide guidance to individual humans. Basically, all your disagreements with science seems to be based on you not knowing what science is and does, and furthermore, it seems to be entirely propagated by the fact that I dissed you for wearing masks at a time when it made little sense. Completely bonkers. Edited June 20, 2022 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 24 minutes ago, action said: I Have experienced corona for 2 years, spoken to many people who got the vaccine, and those who didn't, seeing the side effects not on the fox news, but in reality, and countless upon countless of other sources of information, Even if I don't agree, I don't need to argue your decision whether to get the vaccine or not. That's your call. All I'm saying is that I find it peculiar that you're so extreme in your opinion when you clearly, and I can tell from the fact that you're factually incorrect often, lack a lot of knowledge about the subject. As for not only listening to scientists. Most people around me have been vaccinated and I haven't heard anyone say something about side effects. None. Of course, I can't know if in 5 years from now we all start growing some freaky tail, but I reckon that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 40 minutes ago, EvanG said: Even if I don't agree, I don't need to argue your decision whether to get the vaccine or not. That's your call. All I'm saying is that I find it peculiar that you're so extreme in your opinion when you clearly, and I can tell from the fact that you're factually incorrect often, lack a lot of knowledge about the subject. As for not only listening to scientists. Most people around me have been vaccinated and I haven't heard anyone say something about side effects. None. Of course, I can't know if in 5 years from now we all start growing some freaky tail, but I reckon that won't happen. well, maybe, but you're talking in extremeties too: - "often" factually incorrect - "always" changing your mind - lacking "a lot" of knowledge Talking in extremeties, don't always have to be a bad thing. Like I posted above, animals communicate with "sign language". Certain sounds, colours, dances, have only one extreme meaning: "danger", "I want to mate", "I don't want to mate", "I taste like crap", "I am poisonous". How easy going, animals are, when everything is clear between them all the time! "Me too" has shown, that humans can learn a thing or two about animals, because somewhere along the way, we have lost the way of making ourselves clear. Some partners spend a lifetime trying to understand what their partner means. They, sure enough, could benefit with a bit of clarity, or extremeties as you call it. Talking in extremeties has the benefit of communiacting a clear message which is not subject to confusion, but this comes as a cost of being less accurate. But, like I said, it's clear what people stand for. Who is "right"? the animals? or we? I honestly don't know. Sometimes, I'm glad I can talk in riddles towards my wife. If everything was clear all the time, how suffocating life would be. A bit of mystery now and then is a great thing, in a relationship. On an internet message board, however, where there is a lack of face to face interaction, in order to communicate a point sometimes it is better to talk in extremeties. It is better for me, in any case. it is my style. I don't like your style, because it confuses me time and time again. This is evidenced by our countless misunderstandings in the past. It is for this reason, that I stopped addressing every point you make, because most of the time your posts leave too much room for interpretation (for me, that is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, action said: well, maybe, but you're talking in extremeties too: - "often" factually incorrect - "always" changing your mind - lacking "a lot" of knowledge I've been reading your posts for quite a few years now and that is where I base it on and why I use those specific words. Furthermore, I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this, and that's okay, so let's leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 "you lack a lot of knowledge". I want to expand on this accusation a bit. can you know, for example, the definition of democracy? No, you can't. Every country claims to be a democratic country, and every country has a different form of democracy. Russia claims to be a democracy. You can state "a" definition of democracy, but not all of them at once. Considering this, when do you know? When do you speak the truth? the old greek people had 4 forms of "telling the truth", and they were seen as fundamental to democracy: - the prophecy (for example, oracle of delphi) - the whisdom - the "techni": technical / correct knowledge - the pareesia: speaking freely: to dare say in a public space, what everyone else doesn't. To dare say things, that are controversial The "scientific" camp, the camp that is focused on statistics, is only interested in the cold numbers, or speaking "techni". Even the old greek already knew, that there is more to truth / knowledge, that merely what scientists investigate This contrived speaking, is bogging down progress, it is detrimental to democracy, and it can only lead to totalitarism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, EvanG said: I've been reading your posts for quite a few years now and that is where I base it on and why I use those specific words. and my opinion on corona is based on the two years we're living with it, and the daily intake of information on the subject. Information, as defined by the greek, that is. I told you this, but you still accuse me of a lack of knowledge. While you, you base your statement on "reading my posts for quite a few years", even if you haven't met me in real life for five minutes. Even though, you lack any knowledge on my education. Where is your knowledge about me? What I wanna show you, is that your opinion on me, is based on not much more information, than my opinion on corona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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