Back in the AFD Days, Did You See Duff as the Third Most Important Member?

[Tom-Ass]

5 hours ago, History2010 said:

How many members on this forum were actually around for AFD? I feel like most members here discovered the band during Illusions or later. I'm sure there is a few on here who have been fans since the very beginning.

Been a fan since 87/88.  They were HUGE where I am from as soon as Sweet Child came out and started gaining steam prior.  Jungle, Sweet Child and PC were massive hits on MTV.  I remember skipping class in High School to go get LIES the day it came out at Strawberries Records. The had a whole wall that was entirely LIES cassettes. 

 

[Tom-Ass]

Oh and I didn't really ever rank them or anything like that but Axl and Slash had to be right up front.. Loved and knew all the other guys too though. Duff never stood out as being more important than Izzy or Steven to me. 

[DownUnderScott]

30 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Oh and I didn't really ever rank them or anything like that but Axl and Slash had to be right up front.. Loved and knew all the other guys too though. Duff never stood out as being more important than Izzy or Steven to me. 

Same opinion , been there since the late 80’s. Now it’s Axl, Beta, Fernando, than daylight. Then Slash. Then daylight. Then Duff.

[BluegrassBlues]

Interesting question! I wasn't alive then so take my answer with a grain of salt lol, but looking back at videos/interviews I wouldn't consider him a big three member (no hate to him or anything.) My first impression was that it was the Axl and Slash show, and I didn't have much room to consider anyone else. Now my opinion is that in the beginning they were kinda two camps, Axl/Izzy and Slash/Duff/Steven. I feel like Axl and Izzy had more of the lead singer/lead guitarist relationship at first and that obviously changed into Axl/Slash/Duff with Izzy's departure and Steven being fired. 

[Nintari]

In their prime, it was Axl and then Slash, sort of like Mick and Kieth. But now, in hindsight, I view it as the Axl and Izzy show. And if you want to start an argument, you can even claim it was the Izzy and Axl show... but I won't do that.

Oh, to hell with it... yes I will.

[Powderfinger]

 

 

Back then for me it was hard to separate Axl/Slash/Izzy they all seemed vital to the band, Izzys credits were all over Appetite and Lies. In terms of dumb teenage cool he was number 1. A Shady, mysterious guy who looked like and was rumoured to have been a drug dealer. He seemed like the guy who seen it all did it all and kept it to himself. I was gutted when I heard he’d left. 
 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Powderfinger

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

Axl>Slash>Izzy>Adler>Duff

 

What has Duff written?

On Appetite he wrote/co-wrote Jungle, It’s So Easy, Nightrain, Paradise City, Sweet Child and Rocket Queen according to their autobiographies and what they’ve said about those songs.

[ChristmasFnatic]

15 minutes ago, EvanG said:

On Appetite he wrote/co-wrote Jungle, It’s So Easy, Nightrain, Paradise City, Sweet Child and Rocket Queen according to their autobiographies and what they’ve said about those songs.

Damn. Checkmate Izzy fans!

[EvanG]

12 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

Damn. Checkmate Izzy fans!

I’m not disagreeing Izzy wrote more, but Duff’s contributions shouldn’t go unnoticed either.

[Bitchisback]

I was 4 lol.

 

But from reading old magazines and watching old content it always just seemed like it was the Slash and Axl show and the other guys were just the other guys.  Like Page/Plant, Tyler/Perry, Ozzy/Randy etc.

 

The rhythm section usually gets ignored by the mainstream 

[EvanG]

47 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm saying, as far as I'm aware, Izzy contributed far more to the writing of songs than Duff ever did. I'm not trying to say that Duff did nothing.

I don’t know if it’s far more, but I agree he wrote more than Duff.
I thought it was a genuine question and that you maybe weren’t aware of Duff’s songwriting on Appetite because in the booklet it’s all credited to the band, hence answering your question.

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, EvanG said:

I don’t know if it’s far more, but I agree he wrote more than Duff.
I thought it was a genuine question and that you maybe weren’t aware of Duff’s songwriting on Appetite because in the booklet it’s all credited to the band, hence answering your question.

not to take anything away from Duff, but bringing in ideas to basically a half of an Appetite, Lies, and a bunch of UYI tunes seems like a lot more compared to So Fine and Get In The Ring. composing and writing lyrics from scratch is different than co writing or working on an existing idea as you know which Duff is great at imo and he seems to just have a great feel and instinct when it comes  to where to take a song in an organic way and knowing what it requires to work in a Gn'R context but Izzy was more prolific and wrote what I consider to be just better tunes and also more "important" ones for the band like Don't Cry and YCBM. 

[Rovim]

24 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I do think he's a douchebag for trying to rewrite history though. Saying all that stuff such as "I'm such a good guy I wouldn't even know someone who would say the C word!"

the lying cunt. Sorum said that Duff and Slash don't have the best memory in the world and that helps when you want to feel good about your past if you're convincing enough. (to yourself, in your head)

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rovim

[Rovim]

29 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It's such a moronic lie though because it's instantly debunkable. They are on record at least once saying it "Call my mother...she's just a cunt now..."

Hopefully it was some kind of attempt at humour and he doesn't have his head up his ass.

if it wasn't, it's funnier cause they are also on record saying the N and F words on top of the C word and that's worse but it really does seem to me that he actually believes it . I'd like to think that if I was as rich as Duff is, my head would completely disappear in my own ass like Cher.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rovim

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

not to take anything away from Duff, but bringing in ideas to basically a half of an Appetite, Lies, and a bunch of UYI tunes seems like a lot more compared to So Fine and Get In The Ring. composing and writing lyrics from scratch is different than co writing or working on an existing idea as you know which Duff is great at imo and he seems to just have a great feel and instinct when it comes  to where to take a song in an organic way and knowing what it requires to work in a Gn'R context but Izzy was more prolific and wrote what I consider to be just better tunes and also more "important" ones for the band like Don't Cry and YCBM. 

I was talking specifically about Appetite because of the thread topic. As for UYI we don't really know how much Duff's input was. He has been on record saying he wrote more than he got credit for in the booklet. Although I am not under the impression that he wrote more or as much as Izzy, Axl and Slash by any means.
I don't disagree at all with you, even if we don't know exactly how much his part was on many of the Appetite songs, except that he wrote It's So Easy in its entirety. Regarding the other songs, did he come up with just a riff or an entire section of a song? I think Duff always saw himself as the conductor in the band because previously he had the most band experience out of all of them and he was the guy who played all the instruments. He also put together Steven's drumparts on Civil War together with Mike Clink and he talked about how difficult it was because Steven was such a mess at the time.

 

2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

I consider Duff to be the least important member of the most important lineup of my favourite band(well 2nd after The Beatles). So I'm not at all trying to say anything weird like Duff has zero merit.

Personally I would place him above Steven because Duff had both the distinctive sound on his instrument (something Izzy for example doesn't have), and maybe less so than Izzy, Axl and Slash, he did contribute a significant part to the songwriting, something Steven didn't do. And as I said above, I think Duff had taken the role of the conductor in the band.

Edited January 21, 2023 by EvanG

[Rovim]

20 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I was talking specifically about Appetite because of the thread topic. As for UYI we don't really know how much Duff's input was. He has been on record saying he wrote more than he got credit for in the booklet. Although I am not under the impression that he wrote more or as much as Izzy, Axl and Slash by any means.
I don't disagree at all with you, even if we don't know exactly how much his part was on many of the Appetite songs, except that he wrote It's So Easy in its entirety. Regarding the other songs, did he come up with just a riff or an entire section of a song? I think Duff always saw himself as the conductor in the band because previously he had the most band experience out of all of them and he was the guy who played all the instruments.

 

Personally I would place him above Steven because Duff had both the distinctive sound on his instrument (something Izzy for example doesn't have), and maybe less so than Izzy, Axl and Slash, he did contribute a significant part to the songwriting, something Steven didn't do. And as I said above, I think Duff had taken the role of the conductor in the band.

if I'm not mistaken, West Arkeen wrote the original version of It's So Easy, so Duff didn't write the entire song. If the focus is only on Appetite, I guess it depends on how you define writing a song. I define it as coming up with an initial idea that at least sparks the full song like Chinese Democracy the song/Josh or Nightrain/Izzy for example. 

btw, have you listened to Izzy's isolated guitar from Guitar Hero 3 I think it was? I like Izzy's guitar tone but Dufff has a more distinctive sound imo.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rovim

[EvanG]

10 minutes ago, Rovim said:

if I'm not mistaken, West Arkeen wrote the original version of It's So Easy, so Duff didn't write the entire song. If the focus is only on Appetite, I guess it depends on how you define writing a song. I define it as coming up with an initial idea that sparks the full song like Chinese Democracy the song/Josh or Nightrain/Izzy for example. 

btw, have you listened to Izzy's isolated guitar from Guitar Hero 3 I think it was? I like Izzy's guitar tone but Dufff has a more distinctive and unique sound imo.

In Duff's book he writes that the only reason West got a songcredit for it is because he showed Duff alternate tunings on the guitar that Duff didn't know about, and if it wasn't for that, It's So Easy wouldn't have been written. Maybe that's not true, I guess we will never know. But at the same time, I can't imagine Duff, who was good friends with West, saying something like that about his dead friend for no reason if it isn't true.

I think I listened to some of Izzy's isolated guitar tracks on youtube before. I like his tone too, I just don't think it's as distinctive as Duff's bass sound or even Steven's drum sound. When Izzy left and Gilby replaced him I doubt most people could hear the difference.

Edited January 21, 2023 by EvanG

[Rovim]

7 minutes ago, EvanG said:

In Duff's book he writes that the only reason West got a songcredit for it is because he showed Duff alternate tuning on the guitar that Duff didn't know about, and if it wasn't for that, It's So Easy wouldn't have been written. Maybe that's not true, I guess we will never know. But at the same time, I can't imagine Duff, who was good friends with West, saying something like that about his dead friend for no reason if it isn't true.

I think I listened to some of Izzy's isolated guitar tracks on youtube before. I like his tone too, I just don't think it's as distinctive as Duff's bas sound or even Steven's drum sound. When Izzy left and Gilby replaced him I doubt most people could hear the difference.

 

yeah agreed about Duff's and Steven's sound. Very cool tones. Gilby's tone is also good imo. 

in the 2006 Eddie Trunk interview with Axl and Bach I think it was, it was kinda confirmed by Axl that West already had the lyrics and the completely different vocal melody before it turned into a Guns song so there were important key ideas already in place but the song turned out so different that honestly, it's similar to writing a new song but they had something to latch onto with ISE, came from his mind and personally I don't know how reliable Duff's memory is, cause it doesn't add up with the ISE lyrics but who knows.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Rovim

[EvanG]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

yeah agreed about Duff's and Steven's sound. Very cool tones. Gilby's tone is also good imo. 

in the 2006 Eddie Trunk interview with Axl and Bach I think it was, it was kinda confirmed by Axl that West already had the lyrics and the completely different vocal melody before it turned into a Guns song so there were important key ideas already in place but the song turned out so different that honestly, it's similar to writing a new song but they had something to latch onto with ISE, came from his mind and personally I don't know how reliable Duff's memory is, cause it doesn't add up with the ISE lyrics but who knows.

Yeah, I remember, this is what Duff writes in his book:

"...West also showed me open E-tuning, an alternative way of tuning a guitar so it plays an E-Major chord when strummed with no fingers on the frets. That's why he got a songwriting credit on ''It's So Easy" - without open-E tuning, that song wouldn't have happened. I didn't know alternate tunings existed."

To me that implied that West only got a credit because he showed Duff those alternate tunings.

As for the lyrics, on HARDtalk Duff says he wrote the lyrics for It's So Easy when the interviewer quotes the lyrics to that song.

So who is right? I guess everyone has a different memory.

Edited January 21, 2023 by EvanG

[Rayno]

It was always kind of a triad between Slash, Izzy, and me. And when Izzy wasn't so much being a part of that triad, Doug Goldstein, our manager, kind of took his place.

- Axl

[Draguns]

I have been a fan since October 1987. It seemed like back then it was Axl and Slash who were most prominent members of GNR. In my opinion, though, Duff started to become a bit more well known when Patience came out. The first face that you see in the Patience video is Duff and he's counting down. He's then shown in the white suit, which stands out from the rest of the band.  It just seems to me that the Patience video made him more well known. After that came the mention of his name on the Simpsons with Duff beer. In my opinion, the move to be the 3rd well known GNR member started with Patience. 

[eggers]

1. Izzy

2. Axl 

3. Slash

4. Duff

5.Steve

[KURT19]

The majority of us were introduced to GnR via MTV.

They looked like a badass band in those early videos.

I saw them live twice in 1989.

Putting it bluntly…Duff was the fucking bass player.  5th on the list if you were into ranking.

[Powderfinger]

11 minutes ago, KURT19 said:

The majority of us were introduced to GnR via MTV.

They looked like a badass band in those early videos.

I saw them live twice in 1989.

Putting it bluntly…Duff was the fucking bass player.  5th on the list if you were into ranking.

Duff probably didn’t get as much credit back in the day as he should, but even then he was recognized as an essential part of GNRs sound. Yeah Slash’s intro to SCOM is iconic, but so is that melodic bass riff, that jumped out of the radio, the breakdown in jungle, the intro to Its so easy, there’s lots of brilliant bass playing on the early GnR records. 

 

First I heard was on the radio, no fucking MTV where I grew up and thank fuck for it! 

[Spaghetti4twenty]

I think pre 1990 they were all equally important. Appetite wouldn’t be the same without Axl’s vocals, Slash and Izzy’s playing, Duff and Stevens groove, etc… 

a true band before they fired Steven