"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[batatadoce]

15 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Holy shit-a-brick I had a DJ Tommy Smith nightmare last night as I slept I dreamt that I was a DJ and I had been trusted with the one and only, last prestine copy left of The original General mixes and I was due to play it next week but as I looked into the dark soul of the grooves of the vinyl, my phone buzzed with news of Pitman's shares in towels hitting a high in the stock market and I dropped the last vinyl in shock, breaking into nunerous shards of unhappiness...

Craziest dream in a long time. Since I was apparently at the ear clinic after decades of too many rock concerts and as I entered, all there was to greet me, was a broken Gif of Ashba doing his Hulk Hogan to his ears left and right, left and right repeatedly....ad nauseam

I would seek professional help

[drlaban]

11 hours ago, LandOla said:

Only five days left, god damnit

To what?

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, colonizedmind said:

Holy shit-a-brick I had a DJ Tommy Smith nightmare last night as I slept I dreamt that I was a DJ and I had been trusted with the one and only, last prestine copy left of The original General mixes and I was due to play it next week but as I looked into the dark soul of the grooves of the vinyl, my phone buzzed with news of Pitman's shares in towels hitting a high in the stock market and I dropped the last vinyl in shock, breaking into nunerous shards of unhappiness...

Craziest dream in a long time. Since I was apparently at the ear clinic after decades of too many rock concerts and as I entered, all there was to greet me, was a broken Gif of Ashba doing his Hulk Hogan to his ears left and right, left and right repeatedly....ad nauseam

I have had a General themed dream, a few years ago I think when the locker leaks were happening and Guns were obviously on my mind enough to cause a dream about them. I was in the studio with handlebar moustache era Axl and Pitman and they both said "so you wanna hear some new music then". Popped the General on but it was bizarre, like a 90s euro pop song. Vengaboys or Aqua esq. I didn't know what to say as I didn't want to upset Axl so told him it was the best thing I've ever heard. He seemed very smug about the whole thing. 

[colonizedmind]

1 minute ago, rumandraisin said:

I have had a General themed dream, a few years ago I think when the locker leaks were happening and Guns were obviously on my mind enough to cause a dream about them. I was in the studio with handlebar moustache era Axl and Pitman and they both said "so you wanna hear some new music then". Popped the General on but it was bizarre, like a 90s euro pop song. Vengaboys or Aqua esq. I didn't know what to say as I didn't want to upset Axl so told him it was the best thing I've ever heard. He seemed very smug about the whole thing. 

Haha....this song has definately driven previous sane people InSANE! Proof. 

[rumandraisin]

Just now, colonizedmind said:

Haha....this song has definately driven previous sane people InSANE! Proof. 

I've been waiting since 2011 when I became a fan, some people have been waiting since 2006 for this song, absurd. 

[colonizedmind]

1 minute ago, rumandraisin said:

I've been waiting since 2011 when I became a fan, some people have been waiting since 2006 for this song, absurd. 

This is the Chinese Democracy of SONGS! 

[grogmug]

Any word from that radio station claiming a new song would be played? Are they just behind on play Perhaps, or perhaps it’s actually The General? I wish someone would call them and inquire. Ha

[gunsnchalupas]

Mix and mastering are two different things. 

Chinese Democracy had dynamic mastering, but that doesn't mean the choices made in the mix were good or bad. 

Spaghetti Incident was mastered hot on CD, but people generally like the mix. It is still difficult to listen to due to the lack of dynamics. The original UYI albums were not mastered hot, but people generally are negative about the mix.

They made the choice to go with a more dynamic master for Chinese Democracy. This was because of Bob Ludwig. He was a proponent of Axl going against the grain and using the most dynamic master possible. He made three versions for them, one mastered hot with no dynamics, one in the middle, and one with the most dynamics possible. They chose the most dynamic mix, despite the trend at the time being that albums should be mastered as hot as possible. 

Appetite was mastered without the use of any compression, which was not a common thing. Compression is usually required for recordings, but the intended purpose is to level out performances, not to boost loudness to the top possible level, which is how it is used now. 

These guys are all in their 70s and can't hear anymore. They also want the songs to be commercially successful hits (which won't happen regardless), and the commercial standard is to master music hot at the expense of anybody who wants to listen to it on anything other than cheap laptop speakers. It is idiotic, but it isn't going away. 

[WhazUp]

12 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

 

The riff makes you wanna dance? To me it's one of the the least danceable riffs I've ever come across. I gave the song a listen because people praised it, but I thought it was a pretty boring song. Repetitive, lacking any intriguing elements. It didn't really capture my interest. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a grudge against Queens of the Stone Age. Just like you, I enjoy a few of their tracks, but many others just don't do it for me.

Sure, the QOTSA song might be better mixed, but for me, mixing is the least important part of a song, by far. It's all about the energy, the melodies, the riffs, the electrifying solos, the vocals, the lyrics, the spark of originality, and so much more that truly matter. "Hard Skool" and "Absurd" stand out, especially in terms of their sheer energy. In a world where most contemporary rock music seems to lack that punch, these two tracks were a breath of fresh air.

Naturally, I lean towards these songs over "I Sat By The Ocean," but opinions are like assholes etc. I'm not here to engage in futile debates about tastes and preferences; I simply wanted to share my perspective on these songs. Those who aren't fans of the new tracks tend to be quite vocal about it, and it can give the impression of a unanimous sentiment. So I think it's good that people who appreciate these songs share their viewpoints as well.

I chose "I Sat By The Ocean"  purely just as an example of a well-mixed rock song I jammed out to recently - of course opinions on the songwriting of the track itself may vary but I wanted to present it as an example of what my ears hear as a great way to present more straightforward rock songs in terms of instrument balance, EQ, and natural drum sounds

I like Hard Skool the song, as well as Duff and Slash's additions, but I really dislike the qualities of the mix and I think the overall experience would be so much greater if Hard Skool was given a better mix as that song was

To me mixing is a very important part of the sonic experience and can elevate or de-elevate accordingly.  "Dark Side of the Moon" is partly as highly regarded because along with the amazing compositions, the songs themselves are just pure ear candy and a joy to hear on good headphones/speakers.  And I wish Hard Skool got that same elevation it deserves

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by WhazUp

[Lies They Tell]

8 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

I've been waiting since 2011 when I became a fan, some people have been waiting since 2006 for this song, absurd. 

You mean The General? Dude, people have been waiting for that song way longer. 2006 wasn't the first time we heard about The General. I don't remember the exact date when we heard about The General for the first time, but it's one of the earliest songs that we knew about. It was a highly anticipated song long before Sebastian Bach had made any comments about it and long before the intro was played in the concerts. The General, Prostitute and This I Love were probably the most hyped songs before anything from Chinese Democracy had been leaked and way before 2006. 

I don't even know why some people wanted to hear The General so much before we knew anything about it. Maybe the name just sounded so cool. I was always in the Prostitute camp back then. That's the song that I was hyped about because somebody had said that the song sounds like fire and ice. A song with that kind of a contrast sounded awesome to me. In the end Prostitute sounded nothing like I expected, but it's still a great song.

[Lies They Tell]

32 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I chose "I Sat By The Ocean"  purely just as an example of a well-mixed rock song I jammed out to recently - of course opinions on the songwriting of the track itself may vary but I wanted to present it as an example of what my ears hear as a great way to present more straightforward rock songs in terms of instrument balance, EQ, and natural drum sounds

I like Hard Skool the song, as well as Duff and Slash's additions, but I really dislike the qualities of the mix and I think the overall experience would be so much greater if Hard Skool was given a better mix as that song was

To me mixing is a very important part of the sonic experience and can elevate or de-elevate accordingly.  "Dark Side of the Moon" is partly as highly regarded because along with the amazing compositions, the songs themselves are just pure ear candy and a joy to hear on good headphones/speakers.  And I wish Hard Skool got that same elevation it deserves

 

Right! I wasn't actually replying to you, but to the guy who called "I Sat By The Ocean" a much better song compared to Hard Skool and Absurd. I just wanted to add my two cents.

And I get that there are people who really care about the mixing. I'm not one of them. I care about melodies, vocals, riffs, solos, lyrics, energy and all that stuff. How the song is mixed is the least important part. Even when I'm listening to Dark Side of the Moon, it's the melodies, lyrics and stuff like that, that I only really care about. I don't care if Chinese Democracy is overproduced according to some. I don't care if Hard Skool is underproduced according to some. These songs sound good to me because I like the melodies, the vocals etc. Whether or not some drums should be slightly higher up on the mix or not means nothing to me.

It would be a different discussion if the mixing was actually terrible. If the guitars were completely inaudible or something. But I can hear everything that I want to hear in these songs. Nothing else really matters to me. But clearly something about these mixes bothers you a lot. That's all fine and I wasn't really replying to you.

[Sweersa]

22 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

I really don't understand why so many people have such big problems with the mixes of the new songs. Other than Hard Skool's backing vocals being burried, I really don't see what's that wrong with them, yet most people act like they're the worst recordings ever released 😂

They are pretty sad, mixed too loud, drums are awful, etc. The production of Perhaps is noticeably better. 

[colonizedmind]

7 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

Mix and mastering are two different things. 

Chinese Democracy had dynamic mastering, but that doesn't mean the choices made in the mix were good or bad. 

Spaghetti Incident was mastered hot on CD, but people generally like the mix. It is still difficult to listen to due to the lack of dynamics. The original UYI albums were not mastered hot, but people generally are negative about the mix.

They made the choice to go with a more dynamic master for Chinese Democracy. This was because of Bob Ludwig. He was a proponent of Axl going against the grain and using the most dynamic master possible. He made three versions for them, one mastered hot with no dynamics, one in the middle, and one with the most dynamics possible. They chose the most dynamic mix, despite the trend at the time being that albums should be mastered as hot as possible. 

Appetite was mastered without the use of any compression, which was not a common thing. Compression is usually required for recordings, but the intended purpose is to level out performances, not to boost loudness to the top possible level, which is how it is used now. 

These guys are all in their 70s and can't hear anymore. They also want the songs to be commercially successful hits (which won't happen regardless), and the commercial standard is to master music hot at the expense of anybody who wants to listen to it on anything other than cheap laptop speakers. It is idiotic, but it isn't going away. 

A great post of summary and knowledge. Agree with everything....I'm sure they have young dudes working for them to help navigate that but I had to laugh about the plus 70 legends who still are banging out mixes....like Prince's original Bernie Grundman - total legend BUT why is he doing the remaster of D&P and not someone newer who can put an alt take on it! I'm all for blu rays which include several mix options to choose from....it's annoying that they often have plenty of space on those discs they could fill...

[Lethalis]

9 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

Right! I wasn't actually replying to you, but to the guy who called "I Sat By The Ocean" a much better song compared to Hard Skool and Absurd. I just wanted to add my two cents.

And I get that there are people who really care about the mixing. I'm not one of them. I care about melodies, vocals, riffs, solos, lyrics, energy and all that stuff. How the song is mixed is the least important part. Even when I'm listening to Dark Side of the Moon, it's the melodies, lyrics and stuff like that, that I only really care about. I don't care if Chinese Democracy is overproduced according to some. I don't care if Hard Skool is underproduced according to some. These songs sound good to me because I like the melodies, the vocals etc. Whether or not some drums should be slightly higher up on the mix or not means nothing to me.

It would be a different discussion if the mixing was actually terrible. If the guitars were completely inaudible or something. But I can hear everything that I want to hear in these songs. Nothing else really matters to me. But clearly something about these mixes bothers you a lot. That's all fine and I wasn't really replying to you.

The funny thing is we actually agree on something... because I don't care that much about the mixing and production either. Which is why I have written that reply about I Sat By The Ocean. I mentioned I listened to it on mobile phone speakers, implying that the sound quality doesn't matter that much to me when it comes to deciding whether a song is actually good or not.

I used to have a phase in my life that I did care and had expensive studio monitors, high quality head phones (I still have those) and would listen to every minute detail and worry about the lack of dynamic range. But that's a long time ago.

Which brings us to the songs themselves. I think Absurd is one the worst songs GNR has ever released. But yeah, that's just my opinion and a matter of taste. Not a matter of mixing or production. Also not about "new" vs "old", because there are songs on Chinese Democracy that I like (IRS, TWAT, SOD, Madagascar etc).

Hard Skool is not as bad as Absurd, but not a song that resonates with me.

So even if it's hard to understand for you, I actually like I Sat By The Ocean more than Absurd and Hard Skool just based on the song itself and not the mixing or production.

You mention "energy". It could be that your preference leans more towards "busy" / "fast paced" songs than mine. We can still like the same band and the same artists, but just different songs. I usually like the more laid back and slower GNR songs. You might not. And that's fine. My wife thinks I like the more depressing stuff, which to me is soothing but others can't stand it.

PS
After listening to Absurd, Hard Skool and I Sat By The Ocean again, Spotify proceeded to play songs from my playlist and played Big Empty (Stone Temple Pilots) which is one of my all time favorite songs. It is much slower and more laid back. You might hate it

Same with guitar solo's... I usually like the slower bluesy stuff, Slash can be really good at that:

Slash starts at 4:06 and 5:00. Just wonderful solo's.

This is what I want him to play... not the Speedy Gonzales Slash that just wants to play faster all the time. But it's still Slash if you know what I mean. You might like Slash for different reasons.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Lethalis

[SoulMonster]

I Sat By The Ocean is a masterpiece. 

[Rovim]

10 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

Right! I wasn't actually replying to you, but to the guy who called "I Sat By The Ocean" a much better song compared to Hard Skool and Absurd. I just wanted to add my two cents.

And I get that there are people who really care about the mixing. I'm not one of them. I care about melodies, vocals, riffs, solos, lyrics, energy and all that stuff. How the song is mixed is the least important part. Even when I'm listening to Dark Side of the Moon, it's the melodies, lyrics and stuff like that, that I only really care about. I don't care if Chinese Democracy is overproduced according to some. I don't care if Hard Skool is underproduced according to some. These songs sound good to me because I like the melodies, the vocals etc. Whether or not some drums should be slightly higher up on the mix or not means nothing to me.

It would be a different discussion if the mixing was actually terrible. If the guitars were completely inaudible or something. But I can hear everything that I want to hear in these songs. Nothing else really matters to me. But clearly something about these mixes bothers you a lot. That's all fine and I wasn't really replying to you.

thing is, you don't have to care about a mix or be aware of what's happening mix wise for it to influence how it sounds to you. You give an album to 10 different people to mix and you'll get 10 different versions of the album.

[DSTK]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:17 AM, Sweersa said:

Imagine we get a leak of The General and it’s a version with DJ Ashba 😂 

JK, he didn’t play on CD2

His version of Better was pretty good 

[axljungle]

I don’t understand was the problem with Hard Skool mixing. People said that Chinese Democracy has a great mixing and I can’t hear the bass in its songs.

[CAFC Nick]

8 minutes ago, axljungle said:

I don’t understand was the problem with Hard Skool mixing. People said that Chinese Democracy has a great mixing and I can’t hear the bass in its songs.

When people are talking about the mixing they are looking at it holistically. The mix on CD is generally great; no doubt there are small and specific issues, like the reduction in bass level which is very noticeable when comparing to village leaks. However, the whole mix for HS is poor as illustrated with the audacity compression stems.

[Lies They Tell]

1 hour ago, Lethalis said:

So even if it's hard to understand for you, I actually like I Sat By The Ocean more than Absurd and Hard Skool just based on the song itself and not the mixing or production.

I never said that you like I Sat By The Ocean more because of the mixing or the production.

1 hour ago, Lethalis said:

You mention "energy". It could be that your preference leans more towards "busy" / "fast paced" songs than mine. We can still like the same band and the same artists, but just different songs. I usually like the more laid back and slower GNR songs. You might not. And that's fine. My wife thinks I like the more depressing stuff, which to me is soothing but others can't stand it.

Yeah, that's probably it! One of my favorite things about "Hard Skool" and "Absurd" is precisely the energy of these songs. But if you generally prefer the more laid back and slower GNR songs, then these songs don't get any points from you because of the energy. I might slightly prefer the faster stuff in general. Although there are many fast paced GNR songs that I don't really enjoy that much. But I actually prefer both Hard Skool and Absurd over Perhaps for example. Perhaps is a good song, but the solo is nothing too special and after the middle point the song kinda just repeats itself. And let's just say that the song doesn't get any extra points from me because of the slower tempo. Slower songs can be really great too, like for example Estranged is, but there has to be something interesting about them. I couldn't really hear anything special in "I Sat By The Ocean", which is why it's kinda boring to me. Some of my favorite QOTSA songs are also fast paced songs, so I guess I have a preference. It's just that rock music with great energy seems increasingly rare these days.

Anyway, like I originally said, I'm not hear to argue about taste. Everyone has their own preferences. Just wanted to share my perspective on these songs as well.

[SoulMonster]

28 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

I couldn't really hear anything special in "I Sat By The Ocean", which is why it's kinda boring to me. Some of my favorite QOTSA songs are also fast paced songs, so I guess I have a preference. It's just that rock music with great energy seems increasingly rare these days.

Here's why I think I Sat By The Ocean is among QOTSA's finest (and I generally prefer their fast-paces songs):

- Excellent chord progression and uber catchy
- Fantastic bass lines that are so prominent
- The use of the cymbals and hand claps
- The drums at 2:06

I really liked it from the first time I heard it and it has remained one of my favorites. 

But yeah, it is all subjective ad it takes all kinds and all that...
 

[Lies They Tell]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Here's why I think I Sat By The Ocean is among QOTSA's finest (and I generally prefer their fast-paces songs):

- Excellent chord progression and uber catchy
- Fantastic bass lines that are so prominent
- The use of the cymbals and hand claps
- The drums at 2:06

I really liked it from the first time I heard it and it has remained one of my favorites. 

But yeah, it is all subjective ad it takes all kinds and all that...
 

Perhaps I'll listen to it a few more times, since many seem to love it. Just to give it a fair chance. I doubt it will ever be one of my favorites though.

[colonizedmind]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:17 AM, Sweersa said:

Imagine we get a leak of The General and it’s a version with DJ Ashba 😂 

JK, he didn’t play on CD2

Ya...we got CD3 to look forward to him ....

[Voodoochild]

You guys talked so much about I Sat By The Ocean that I had to listen to it again. It's been a decade since I heard it, I guess? It's a cool song, but it's much more simple arrangement than Hard Skool and honestly, a totally different approach for the guitars and especially for the vocals. BTW I used to love Fairweather Friends from that album. 

When you mix a song, there's a lot of stuff you should consider, like frequencies from bass and the drum bass not colliding, or guitar being too thin and hidden. It's not a matter of making the song good or not, it's just to get it as the artist intended and to make it enjoyable in any device you want to use. 

The mastering, in the other hand, can make the track sound dull or as energetic as it was conceived. To get back on topic: looks like The General has some dynamics in the arrangement, with slower parts and orchestra's layers. If the track gets brickwalled like Hard Skool, those will sound just as loud as the rest, with no sense of build up. 

 

[ZoSoRose]

Its a great song and so is HS