StrangerInThisTown Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) I know many people don't believe in Axl having a complete vision for his trilogy of albums, but I think it's absolutely GREAT, but why it wasn't included: it's not because of quality, but it simply didn't fit the lyrical theme of CD, when in 2008 he was still in that "fuck Slash" mode, which is why he didn't want to have it included, since it would kind of been a "I was wrong" mode lyrically. That's just simply not what he wanted to put out at the time, he put stuff like Scraped on the album instead which, I mean it is a SHIT SONG, and many people agree, it was just on the album because he wanted to express his feelings lyrically, and it fit more than Perhaps, as a whole album, as a whole body of work. As a whole I also think that's why The General wasn't on CD. it's not a quality issue, but simply that Axl had a vision of 3 albums that would have been great, but the label didn't agree. Edited August 20, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonizedmind Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 The label seems to agree now....get this stuff out there as you have a top hatted man on it....👍 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Like a Suicide Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 It's clear from Axl's comments, and those made by others like Sebastian Bach, that Axl had a roadmap in mind for these songs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb91 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) I think the Bach interview where he talked about The General was interesting - he said Axl told him the plan was to release it on the third record in 2012 or something? I mean that does imply Axl planned to get back into a regular recording/touring cycle. I think Axl genuinely did have a plan for the albums but for whatever reasons never got around to doing them. I think Robin leaving must have been a blow to him and the label may have been less than helpful. I think what surprises me is that there are better songs out there than some of the CD songs - I mean, I do like all the songs on CD a lot but I feel that Hard Skool and Perhaps are better than Scraped and Riad. Going Down's a great song as well (Tommy's an amazing songwriter!) and it would have been fun for Tommy's solo spot to be an actual GN'R song and would have helped cement the band more in the public's mind. It does seem Axl really did have a release strategy in mind that didn't happen for whatever reason. I just hope one day we get the real history of all the NuGuns era - i.e. was a record rejected? Classic Rock Magazine put out a fun mini magazine as a freebie for the issue that came out when Chinese was released with a potted history of everything. Read that cover to cover all the time as a kid - would love a follow up! Edited August 20, 2023 by BassistSeb 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Bob Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said: I know many people don't believe in Axl having a complete vision for his trilogy of albums, but does anyone believe he did really have it when warching the first performance of Perhaps live? I think the song is absolutely GREAT, but why it wasn't included: it's not because of quality, but it simply didn't fit the lyrical theme of CD, when in 2008 he was still in that "fuck Slash" mode, which is why he didn't want to have it included, since it would kind of been a "I was wrong" mode lyrically. That's just simply not what he wanted to put out at the time, he put stuff like Scraped on the album instead which, I mean it is a SHIT SONG, and many people agree, it was just on the album because he wanted to express his feelings lyrically, and it fit more than Perhaps, as a whole album, as a whole body of work. As a whole I also think that's why The General wasn't on CD. it's not a quality issue, but simply that Axl had a vision of 3 albums that would have been great, but the label didn't agree. There is no theme in CD, just a song about China that gave the title to the album, some other about a crazy dude that kills people, songs about Stephanie Seymour, that Riad guy and also the breakup with Slash and the band Edited August 20, 2023 by Uncle Bob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworth Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, BassistSeb said: I think Robin leaving must have been a blow to him Buckethead's departure was a much bigger blow to the project. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumbleslash69 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Generally there are themes to albums even if they’re not lyrical themes. If CD was to only have two mid-tempo piano rockers, one on each side of the album, then Perhaps had to beat out the Blues and CITR. I like Perhaps and think it’s one of the best songs released by the band since OMG. I just don’t think it had a chance of being on CD. IMO, CD the album was meant to show all the different styles GnR was trying to perform. I think if there was ever a CD2 to or CD3 they’d be sort of similar. A few rockers, a few industrialish songs, a few experimental songs, a few piano ballads, etc. We can sort of get an idea of that too with the three singles, Atlas, State of Grace, and presumably the General all being six different types of songs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seb91 Posted August 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, Slugworth said: Buckethead's departure was a much bigger blow to the project. For sure - the guy's the David Gilmour of shredders in my view - such incredible melodies and soulful playing. It's a real shame we didn't get more Bucket music with Axl singing over the top. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questions Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I don't know if Axl himself ever mentioned a trilogy of albums. Seems the plan for a while was to release two albums worth of material from the sessions. Which songs ended up on the first album and which were saved for the second album seems to have been largely shaped by what had leaked. If Best Buy was paying you guaranteed money for the first album, it would make sense to unload as many of the already leaked songs as possible. If Eddie Trunk had played Perhaps on the radio in 2005, I'm sure it would have been put on the first album instead of being saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mikey Whipwreck Posted August 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Uncle Bob said: There is no theme in CD, just a song about China that gave the title to the album, some other about a crazy dude that kills people, songs about Stephanie Seymour, that Riad guy and also the breakup with Slash and the band CD has pretty consistent themes of trying to overcome various forms of betrayal and oppression One of the best descriptions of CD that I've read is that it's a meta concept album about a rock star with a persecution complex who feels abandoned by his band and those closest to him, and who feels the weight of his past successes, trying to figure out how to make an album that will top his previous works Edited August 20, 2023 by Mikey Whipwreck 6 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caught_in_a_Coma Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) OP I could see you being right, but I'm also wondering if maybe he felt he had too many piano-ballad songs centered on lamenting something lost already on ChiDem in Street of Dreams, Catcher (now that I think about it, I can't remember if Catcher is very piano driven but it is more of a ballad with a theme of loss) and This I Love and felt Perhaps would thematically and musically sound or feel redundant so it was being saved for ChiDem II Edited August 20, 2023 by Caught_in_a_Coma 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) Perhaps, being a piano driven song, possibly Axl thought that there were already enough tunes on there that were piano driven? Prostitute, Street of Dreams, Cather, and This I Love all being very present on the album Edit: Caught_in_a_Coma above me beat me to it lol so my sentiments are not new but I echo theirs Edited August 20, 2023 by WhazUp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ak1nney Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 It could be that he liked it better in another group of songs, or as simple as something just not feeling right with it yet... so he picked the songs he felt flowed the best and were "complete". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questions Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 35 minutes ago, WhazUp said: Perhaps, being a piano driven song, possibly Axl thought that there were already enough tunes on there that were piano driven? Prostitute, Street of Dreams, Cather, and This I Love all being very present on the album Sure, but I don't think it's an accident that the piano driven songs that leaked were put on the album and the piano driven songs that didn't leak were saved for later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR 1991 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 I might be the only one to enjoy Scraped lol the drum intro Frank did live was cool too 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacdaniel Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 3 albums Based on Slash's comments, I'm not sure there's even enough for a 2nd album. And that seems to include some very average stuff like Absurd, Hardskool, Atlas and Perhaps. I don't know where people get this idea that Axl is some kind of perfectionist that had this huge vision for a trilogy and has all this epic material held back. I think it's more accurate to say that Axl has been very lazy for 20 years and hasn't written anything new with Guns and has been content to just tour. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 minute ago, jacdaniel said: And that seems to include some very average stuff like Absurd, Hardskool, Atlas and Perhaps. Speak for yourself. I rank all four of those songs and would take them over at least half of the tracks that made Chinese Democracy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Towelie said: Speak for yourself. I rank all four of those songs and would take them over at least half of the tracks that made Chinese Democracy. They are better songs, and they didn't appear on the album. I think that speaks for itself that Axl had a vision in mind and not a pure "these are the best songs" mindset. That's why songs like The General are left to be released 15 years later Edited August 20, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumandraisin Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 You have to remember the importance of the leaks in regards to the final release. He must have been aware of spreading the material equally between the two discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourRocketDing Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) I would of imagined that one of the original plans was to outdo Use Your Illusion: Chinese Democracy I + Chinese Democracy II + Chinese Democracy III Obviously that didn't happen, I get the feeling Axl still wants to up it up, and Slash just wants to do one straightforward album, 14 tracks total. Edited August 20, 2023 by YourRocketDing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vloors Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Sounded too close to a illusions sort of track. Axls CD was in another direction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacdaniel Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, YourRocketDing said: I would of imagined that one of the original plans was to outdo Use Your Illusion: Chinese Democracy I + Chinese Democracy II + Chinese Democracy III Obliviously that didn't happen, I get the feeling Axl still wants to up it up, and Slash just wants to do one straightforward album, 14 tracks total. So we're back to 96 Axl still wants to do all the piano and alternative stuff but Slash/Duff would probably prefer to do a more traditional Guns album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3coloursbeige Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Flip of a coin between Perhaps and Catcher. Catcher won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbj_jam Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 hurts my sensitive heart each every time Riad gets cast as a CD throwaway track, I get it, buut please leave Riad out yo mouth when mentioning scraped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworth Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, 3coloursbeige said: Flip of a coin between Perhaps and Catcher. Catcher won. Catcher leaked. That's why it's on the album. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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