Why Perhaps wasn't on Chinese Democracy

[Sosso]

1 hour ago, jacdaniel said:

So we're back to 96 

Axl still wants to do all the piano and alternative stuff but Slash/Duff would probably prefer to do a more traditional Guns album. 

They could have released a couple of "traditional" Guns albums to give Axl the time he needs. 

[JimiRose]

1 hour ago, pbj_jam said:

hurts my sensitive heart each every time Riad gets cast as a CD throwaway track, I get it, buut please leave Riad out yo mouth when mentioning scraped.

Riad sucks. It's the only song I don't listen to anymore on CD. I like the mayhem of the solo coming back into Axl doing the pre chorus bit, but that song is a bit of a mess. Probably the worst song GnR have released. Below Absurd and my world.

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, JimiRose said:

Riad sucks. It's the only song I don't listen to anymore on CD. I like the mayhem of the solo coming back into Axl doing the pre chorus bit, but that song is a bit of a mess. Probably the worst song GnR have released. Below Absurd and my world.

What about the version on the rough mix disc with Brains drums louder and heavier and Tommy's upfront bass. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by rumandraisin

[YourRocketDing]

3 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

So we're back to 96 

Axl still wants to do all the piano and alternative stuff but Slash/Duff would probably prefer to do a more traditional Guns album. 

Well this is why I mentioned at one point, that they should go ahead and do a Use Your Illusion thing again, and release two albums on the same day again: Not In This Lifetime I + Not In This Lifetime II, that would give enough room for both Slash and Axl's visions to mix together...... but oh boy.... if they decide to call the last track "My World, Part 2"...... or even worse if Axl got all environmental and political and did a track at the end called "Our World".... lol.......

..... uuurgh, just as long as they don't go all Dream Theater, and call the new album/s "Guns'n'Roses: My World Part 2: Scenes From A Rose", and at one point they cover "Kiss From a Rose" by Seal, and its partly produced by Trent Reznor and Moby, with random rap verses by I don't know, Eminem now?.... ok, I'm sure Axl's mind is abit beyond '96 at this point

[Trin9498]

Perhaps smokes Catcher IMO

[pbj_jam]

3 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Riad sucks. It's the only song I don't listen to anymore on CD. I like the mayhem of the solo coming back into Axl doing the pre chorus bit, but that song is a bit of a mess. Probably the worst song GnR have released. Below Absurd and my world.

you lost me at the end there, well to each his own.

[Nintari]

I think as far as "rockers" go, Oh My God was better than anything released on CD or since... yet it wasn't included. So who knows? To borrow a favorite line from the AVGN, it's easier taking a dump while doing a handstand than it is trying to decode Axl Rose.

[JimiRose]

8 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

What about the version on the rough mix disc with Brains drums louder and heavier and Tommy's upfront bass. 

It was better. Still a bit all over the place but better than what came out

[felixGNR]

10 hours ago, Sosso said:

They could have released a couple of "traditional" Guns albums to give Axl the time he needs. 

i wouldn't  mind them  going the aerosmith  route PUMP-just push play 

for 2 records  or so.

 

[silkchild]

If it was on CD you would have had 2 songs about Lennons murder, Axl chose Catcher instead.

 

Agree with the poster above that Perhaps is the better of the 2. I don’t think Catcher is that great.

[Free Bird]

13 hours ago, vloors said:

Sounded too close to a illusions sort of track. Axls CD was in another direction

 

I think it sounds very CD-ish. Most likely because of the voice, but still very CD-ish. Even more so without Slash and Duff.

[RONIN]

15 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

3 albums   

Based on Slash's comments, I'm not sure there's even enough for a 2nd album. And that seems to include some very average stuff like Absurd, Hardskool, Atlas and Perhaps. 

I don't know where people get this idea that Axl is some kind of perfectionist that had this huge vision for a trilogy and has all this epic material held back.

 

I think it's more accurate to say that Axl has been very lazy for 20 years and hasn't written anything new with Guns and has been content to just tour. 

Nailed it. 3 albums is absurd. Realistically, there probably wasn't even enough A-list material to fill a single album (Chinese Democracy). 3 b-sides made the final tracklist : (Riad, Scraped, IRS). Perhaps was not good enough to even make the album clearly.

But you know what? I believed all of this - most of us fell for this "trilogy of albums" nonsense and that he was having a huge cache of "big guns" in the vault. But the most probable truth is there's likely nothing left as far as top shelf material. It's becoming clearer and clearer that Axl had nothing creatively to offer post-94. There's an old article from '94 with Trent Reznor saying Axl had called him up in '93 about potentially doing a collab album together and that he hadn't heard anything since then. That obviously went nowhere like every other grand idea Axl had post 94. He thought he could hire the best people money could buy and just throw everything up at the wall to see what sticks because HE was GnR not the other 4 original members. So what do you really have to show for the 20 years the original band was broken up? Hundreds of instrumental jams from 14 years of production. And about 4-6 strong tracks from Chinese Democracy (all of which were ruined by overproduction on the final album). Oh...and the promise of all these unheard masterpieces in the vault...like Perhaps and The General.

This new song is thoroughly mediocre. Not even close to the worst of UYI like Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring (both of which had awesome Slash riffage). I understand this forum leans heavily towards nu-guns fans and people are euphoric and want to celebrate tiny wins like getting whatever scraps Axl throws off his table -  but it is what it is. If you take a look at some music forums or reddit (not the gnr subreddit but subreddits like classic rock, music, entertainment, etc) , the response to this track is much more muted to put it kindly. There are people on the Metallica forums who are in disbelief at the constant complaining about Slash on this forum and the idea that the nu guns lineup is actually more favored here than the original lineup. This is even more absurd because it wasn't like Chinese Democracy was some organic, raw, and off the cuff album like AFD where the lineup really mattered. CD is a frankenstein affair with a revolving door of musicians and producers. Perhaps is a frankensteined song. Random bits and pieces of jams and vocals over 14 years that were stitched together. For the reunited trio to put out subpar tracks like Absurd, Hardstool, and Perhaps as their first in 3 decades is shocking given the incredibly high note they went out on. I mean...enjoy it for what it is but let's keep some perspective as well. Gnr used to have higher standards than releasing b and c-list outtakes.

[RONIN]

5 hours ago, Nintari said:

I think as far as "rockers" go, Oh My God was better than anything released on CD or since... yet it wasn't included. So who knows? To borrow a favorite line from the AVGN, it's easier taking a dump while doing a handstand than it is trying to decode Axl Rose.

Oh My God is a GnR classic and as you said, the strongest rocker from the Chinese Democracy era.

There was a newer cleaned up version with Bumblefoot? that Axl somehow managed to nerf completely. About as bad of a revamp as what he did to the Brian May version of Catcher. So perhaps OMG is better left as a demo and not re-released again.

[Cosmo]

Perhaps is a good song but Catcher is on a whole different level, it’s amazing.

Being the weakest of them all, Riad or Scraped could have been swapped out for Perhaps but I think Axl wanted some rockers on the album, and probably more Buckethead material. If not for these two, I would’ve swapped TIL for Perhaps, or maybe Sorry. The rest of the album is far better than Perhaps, IMO.

[Tom2112]

Yeah I also think that Axl had a bunch of songs that had a similar feel on Chinese and knew he couldn't put them all out at once, instead having an album with more variation. I mean Chinese already had at least 5 songs that have similar tempos to Perhaps. He probably looked at from a lyrical context too. The general was meant for Chinese but they ran out of space for the vinyl release, so it was pulled and intended for the follow up... at least that's the story I remember reading.

There is also this idea that anything that wasn't released on the 2008 album is now some cast off, and that's just nonsense. Since the early 00s he had been talking about multiple albums and 40/70 songs that would be divided up over several records. Anyway, the biggest issue for most people is that the song was written so long ago. My opinion is that if the song is good then who gives a damn. 

[Tom2112]

28 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Nailed it. 3 albums is absurd. Realistically, there probably wasn't even enough A-list material to fill a single album (Chinese Democracy). 3 b-sides made the final tracklist : (Riad, Scraped, IRS). Perhaps was not good enough to even make the album clearly.

But you know what? I believed all of this - most of us fell for this "trilogy of albums" nonsense and that he was having a huge cache of "big guns" in the vault. But the most probable truth is there's likely nothing left as far as top shelf material. It's becoming clearer and clearer that Axl had nothing creatively to offer post-94. There's an old article from '94 with Trent Reznor saying Axl had called him up in '93 about potentially doing a collab album together and that he hadn't heard anything since then. That obviously went nowhere like every other grand idea Axl had post 94. He thought he could hire the best people money could buy and just throw everything up at the wall to see what sticks because HE was GnR not the other 4 original members. So what do you really have to show for the 20 years the original band was broken up? Hundreds of instrumental jams from 14 years of production. And about 4-6 strong tracks from Chinese Democracy (all of which were ruined by overproduction on the final album). Oh...and the promise of all these unheard masterpieces in the vault...like Perhaps and The General.

This new song is thoroughly mediocre. Not even close to the worst of UYI like Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring (both of which had awesome Slash riffage). I understand this forum leans heavily towards nu-guns fans and people are euphoric and want to celebrate tiny wins like getting whatever scraps Axl throws off his table -  but it is what it is. If you take a look at some music forums or reddit (not the gnr subreddit but subreddits like classic rock, music, entertainment, etc) , the response to this track is much more muted to put it kindly. There are people on the Metallica forums who are in disbelief at the constant complaining about Slash on this forum and the idea that the nu guns lineup is actually more favored here than the original lineup. This is even more absurd because it wasn't like Chinese Democracy was some organic, raw, and off the cuff album like AFD where the lineup really mattered. CD is a frankenstein affair with a revolving door of musicians and producers. Perhaps is a frankensteined song. Random bits and pieces of jams and vocals over 14 years that were stitched together. For the reunited trio to put out subpar tracks like Absurd, Hardstool, and Perhaps as their first in 3 decades is shocking given the incredibly high note they went out on. I mean...enjoy it for what it is but let's keep some perspective as well. Gnr used to have higher standards than releasing b and c-list outtakes.

Someone pissed in Ronin's cereal.

I've watched a lot of reaction videos for Perhaps, and the consensus seems to be that it's good, but not great although some have loved it, one guy hated it. I wouldn't be going to reddit to get my opinions, that's for sure😂 that place is filled with the most bitter and impossible to please people there is. 

It's not the most amazing piece of music I've heard, but it certainly is just as good and better than the worst end of UYI you mentioned, I think your perspective is a bit blurred because that's a classic album vs Chinese era which you're clearly not a great fan of. 

It's head and shoulders above HardSkool and Absurd, that should be the celebration here. 

[Arnuld]

There was supposed to be CD1 and CD2. CD1 already had catcher and the blues. So another piano driven mid tempo rocker is not what that album needed. 
 

Had there not been the 14 million dollar bill that needed to be paid CD should have just been a double album. Had it been 10 years earlier they could’ve gone the UYI route and just release two albums at once

[RONIN]

13 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

It's not the most amazing piece of music I've heard, but it certainly is just as good and better than the worst end of UYI you mentioned, I think your perspective is a bit blurred because that's a classic album vs Chinese era which you're clearly not a great fan of.

Actually, I loved the original CD era (up till Bucket left). I was all in on Axl doing an experimental album for GnR and evolving the sound instead of the generic stuff Slash was putting out in his solo albums. There was a great mystique and mystery with that time. And there is enough great material from the Beavan era demos and a few from RTB era to cobble together a near classic album imho. I think there's a group of us here that got jaded by Buckethead leaving, the lineup getting watered down with b-listers, and then the album coming out in 08 and sounding worse than the demos. The 2002 botched tour really hurt as well because we didn't get to see the full potential of that original nu guns lineup. As for Perhaps, I think it is a bit boring unfortunately and Slash's solo feels underwhelming but to each their own.

Quote

It's head and shoulders above HardSkool and Absurd, that should be the celebration here.

For sure and I can absolutely get behind that.

Edited August 20, 2023 by RONIN

[axl666]

I think perhaps is actually a bit weaker and less catchy than the songs that are on CD. It's definitely a b-side GNR song for me, though it's

new so I still like it. I'd be interested to know it's history. Do we know when it was written and who was involved in creating it?

 

 

[Tom2112]

15 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Actually, I loved the original CD era (up till Bucket left). I was all in on Axl doing an experimental album for GnR and evolving the sound instead of the generic stuff Slash was putting out in his solo albums. There was a great mystique and mystery with that time. And there is enough great material from the Beavan era demos and a few from RTB era to cobble together a near classic album imho. I think there's a group of us here that got jaded by Buckethead leaving, the lineup getting watered down with b-listers, and then the album coming out in 08 and sounding worse than the demos. The 2002 botched tour really hurt as well because we didn't get to see the full potential of that original nu guns lineup. As for Perhaps, I think it is a bit boring unfortunately and Slash's solo feels underwhelming but to each their own.

For sure and I can absolutely get behind that.

I can see where you're coming from. I also think besides the chorus the song is a little bit boring... well boring is a bit strong as I enjoy it, but the verses aren't blowing my mind.

I also agree that Slash's solo is poor. 6 or 7 out 10 for me. I hope that they get these songs out and then refocus and make a great album. Their quality filter at present is a little questionable, but with the right producer I think they have a great record left in them... can they pull it together is another story!

[Its Tino]

#teamscraped

[Arnuld]

10 hours ago, Nintari said:

I think as far as "rockers" go, Oh My God was better than anything released on CD or since... yet it wasn't included. So who knows? To borrow a favorite line from the AVGN, it's easier taking a dump while doing a handstand than it is trying to decode Axl Rose.

Seriously lol? OMG is better than CD, Shacklers, Better, Hard Skool?!

OMG is one rung up from absurd and that’s the bottom rung. 

[Nintari]

8 minutes ago, Arnuld said:

Seriously lol? OMG is better than CD, Shacklers, Better, Hard Skool?!

OMG is one rung up from absurd and that’s the bottom rung. 

In my opinion, yes. Axl sounds like Axl. He sounds pissed off. The music is more aggressive etc. Better is a ballad, Shacklers is techno, Hard School is kind of cheesy and timid, although the chorus is catchy. But Oh My God is the one Nu-Guns song that actually has an angry, original-Guns vibe to it.

[pbj_jam]

Ah yes the spag incident and a dysfunctional tour, certainly the high point of any band's career, lol. Hold my rose colored glasses for me why don't you.

[Towelie]

2 hours ago, Nintari said:

Better is a ballad

What you smoking?